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Pokémon Heracross
- Thread starter PK Gaming
- Start date
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A Bulldoze set sounds interesting, but what threats does it allow Heracross to deal with? Speed investment is necessary to catch -1 base 100's. This detracts a fair amount from bulk.
To outspeed +speed nature base 100's after a Bulldoze, Heracross needs 132 EV's in speed with a neutral speed nature.
To outspeed +speed nature base 102 after a Bulldoze, he needs 144.
To outspeed +speed nature base 105 after a Bulldoze, he needs 164.
To outspeed +speed nature base 108 after Bulldoze, he needs 168.
To outspeed +speed nature base 109 after Bulldoze, he needs 188.
To outspeed +speed nature base 110 after Bulldoze, he needs 196.
Not all of these calcs are terribly relevant, but this is the general range of important speeds to watch out for in OU. A surprise Bulldoze on a switch could net you a nice KO or at least a powerful free hit on something. However, Bulldoze doesn't affect everything since it's a ground type move. And the surprise factor is important as after the initial Bulldoze your opponent can and will attempt to play around your set more. Determining how much bulk you want to sacrifice for speed would be crucial for this set.
40 BP difference is a lot to ask for for something that wants to kill outright like Heracross. If his attack stat was considerably lower it could potentially be worthile but Bulldoze is ONLY superior to EQ in scenarios where an EQ wouldn't kill the enemy outright or Bulldoze wouldn't drop their speed enough for Heracross to benefit from. With no room for recovery Heracross simply wants to hit as hard as possible. Let the rest of your team mitigate his speed, don't make his attack suffer.
I keep on reading people say that Megacross can't be a sweeper, but they're forgetting about sticky web. With this and a little speed investment, Megacross can. I've matched Megacross with Galvantula and with maximum speed investment, I've out sped Mega Alikazam. Idk, I just think with 185 base attack, you should try to exploit that as much as possible if you're even going to consider using him.
When I use Heracross, I use him as a full out attacker. This is the set I use.
Heracross@Heracronite
Adamant
252 HP/Atk, 4 SpDef
-Rock Blast
-Pin Missile
-Bullet Seed
-Close Combat/Arm Thrust
I take full advantage of Skill Link. All of these moves, bar arm thrust, have a 125 BP from Skill Link. Pair that with a base 185 Attack stat and you have an insane amount of damage being dealt.
Heracross@Heracronite
Adamant
252 HP/Atk, 4 SpDef
-Rock Blast
-Pin Missile
-Bullet Seed
-Close Combat/Arm Thrust
I take full advantage of Skill Link. All of these moves, bar arm thrust, have a 125 BP from Skill Link. Pair that with a base 185 Attack stat and you have an insane amount of damage being dealt.
My set is identical. Except I use EQ instead of CC/AT.
Missing out on the fighting STAB. Whenever I make a set, I always have a STAB for each type.
There's still something to be said for EQ in that it hits harder (I think?) than Arm Thrust, doesn't lower your defenses (and thus hinder your tanking ability), and hits different things supereffectively. All are valid reasons to run EQ if your team doesn't need Hera to have fighting coverage.
You can't get away with not using Earthquake on Mega Heracross, since Aegislash completely walls you without it. I'm running it over Bullet Seed (not really missing it to tbh) and it's been doing pretty well. I like throwing out Rock Blasts with this thing because you can catch a lot of checks switching in for decent damage and its effectively a STAB move in terms of power because of Skill Link.
With
Bullet Seed
Rock Blast
Pin Missile
EQ
You can hit the following for SE
Water
Ground
Rock
Fire
Electric
Poison
Steel
Psychic
Dark
Ice
Flying
Bug
Remove EQ and put in a Fighting move, and you can no longer hit Electric and Poison. In exchange for Normal SE damage.
I keep bullet seed to mash bulky Water and Ground types. Which there are aplenty.
Keep EQ to mash Aegislash and Ferrothorn (WITHOUT the fear of getting spiky barb'd + rocky helmet x5, which hurts a LOT)
Fighting does help with Normal types... But thats it. If you run CC, you are lowering your bulky defenses, which can actually take a beating.
And Arm Thrust only does 112 BP with STAB. And only SE against Normal. Other choices include... Dark you can hit with a 125 BP STAB Pin Missile. Ice you can hit with a 125 BP Rock Blast. Steel you can hit with a 100 BP EQ.
IMO, a fighting STAB isn't worth it. Mainly for the spiky barb damage or negative defense from CC.
Bullet Seed
Rock Blast
Pin Missile
EQ
You can hit the following for SE
Water
Ground
Rock
Fire
Electric
Poison
Steel
Psychic
Dark
Ice
Flying
Bug
Remove EQ and put in a Fighting move, and you can no longer hit Electric and Poison. In exchange for Normal SE damage.
I keep bullet seed to mash bulky Water and Ground types. Which there are aplenty.
Keep EQ to mash Aegislash and Ferrothorn (WITHOUT the fear of getting spiky barb'd + rocky helmet x5, which hurts a LOT)
Fighting does help with Normal types... But thats it. If you run CC, you are lowering your bulky defenses, which can actually take a beating.
And Arm Thrust only does 112 BP with STAB. And only SE against Normal. Other choices include... Dark you can hit with a 125 BP STAB Pin Missile. Ice you can hit with a 125 BP Rock Blast. Steel you can hit with a 100 BP EQ.
IMO, a fighting STAB isn't worth it. Mainly for the spiky barb damage or negative defense from CC.
I'm thinking about using Megacross on my team as an attacker , but I'm unsure of whether to run him as:
Jolly 4HP/252Atk/252Spe or Adamant 252HP/252Atk/4SpD
Since these two are pretty common spreads, could i ask some of you guys how your experiences with them have went before I make my final decision?
Jolly 4HP/252Atk/252Spe or Adamant 252HP/252Atk/4SpD
Since these two are pretty common spreads, could i ask some of you guys how your experiences with them have went before I make my final decision?
Ive had a lot of experience and success with megacross. It honestly depends on what spot you want him to fill on your team. For me personally, I run a defensive rain team and really needed a physical attacker that could take out ferrothorn and was not weak to ground type attacks.
I run the adamant spread since it makes megacross a lot more bulky. He is kind of slow tho so I would personally recommend the tankish adamant spread vs jolly since he hits really hard and still outspeeds what it needs to like bulky waters/grounds. Again, depends on the role you want him to play on your team.
Everyone seems to be hating on heracross because its mega is underwhelming (not bad, just impractical), but I'm still using the all-out attacker flame orb set for a few clean wins. As long as I don't do anything stupid like use him against Talonflame, he's as good as last gen
Ive been using him as a decent surprise factor. I cant even begin to tell you how many Azumarills/Rotom W/ Megablastoise Iv'e OKHO'd in the rain since they think I have nothing to hit them with. Even if you scare something out and you make a simple prediction you can easily OKHO incoming poke as long as it is not heavily defensive, with the correct unresisted move of course.
people really need to stop saying sticky web is good with him, considering most checks/counters that come in on heracross fly and aren't affected by it. SR is a much more worthwhile hazard to be used with him, sticky web does close to nothing for you. Other good checks like aegislash are already slower.
Well Shuckle is able to lay down both fairly reliably with Sturdy and Custap at least, but I agree that most of his counters are weak to Stealth Rock and there are other ways of mitigating speed besides Sticky Web. Empoleon resists Flying which means you get to use Aqua Jet on Talonflame and he can also lay down rocks and Roar him into them too, at which point he's kinda dead either way unless Empoleon was weakened enough for Brave Bird to kill him.
My biggest issue with running Arm Thrust over Close Combat is Ferrothorn, who could badly hurt Mega-Heracross by only dealing out damage from Iron Barbs. Even then, that's without Rocky Helmet, which is getting more popular due to M-Kangaskhan.
It's been demonstrated quite a few times why foregoing a Fighting move is you're best choice for Megacross based on stats, available Fighting moves and coverage. He absolutely needs Rock Blast and EQ, no questions. Pin Missle is his strongest neutral attack after that and then the last move really should be Bulk Up, Substitute or Bullet Speed, which murders Hippowdon, Jellicent, Rotom W Quagsire and and the occasional Swampert/Gastrodon. EQ means you suffer no barbs damage from Ferrothorn and Sub protects from Leech Seed and Thunder Wave, and Gyro Ball and Power Whip would do pathetic damage.
Ya HungryHippo, check out my long winded post a little ways up.
I give my reasons to not use a fighting STAB over Bullet Seed.
Also... I had no answer for a Mega-Venusaur last night.
That thing mashed me and laughed.
Poisoned me, then healed up any Pin Missiles with Synthesis as I died off.
I give my reasons to not use a fighting STAB over Bullet Seed.
Also... I had no answer for a Mega-Venusaur last night.
That thing mashed me and laughed.
Poisoned me, then healed up any Pin Missiles with Synthesis as I died off.
Before I start breeding these I'd like some feedback on this set or at least the concept behind it.
Heracross@Heracronite
Guts/Moxie
Brave
31/31/31/xx/31/0
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4SpDef
-Rock Blast
-Pin Missile
-Bullet Seed/Pursuit
-Close Combat/Arm Thrust
Basically trick room Mega Heracross, Mega Heracross takes a speed hit sitting it at 75 base speed, not the best trick room Mega, but completely viable in my opinion. Also debating substitute as you can force switches/take volt-turns with your bulk and the Mega+Sub up
Heracross@Heracronite
Guts/Moxie
Brave
31/31/31/xx/31/0
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4SpDef
-Rock Blast
-Pin Missile
-Bullet Seed/Pursuit
-Close Combat/Arm Thrust
Basically trick room Mega Heracross, Mega Heracross takes a speed hit sitting it at 75 base speed, not the best trick room Mega, but completely viable in my opinion. Also debating substitute as you can force switches/take volt-turns with your bulk and the Mega+Sub up
While that is true, sticky web still does make mega heracross a little easier to use, and it's another "less troublesome" alternative to baton pass. Though I do agree on SR being the superior hazard support, given the humongous amount of talonflames in OU and talonflame being a good offensive check against mega-heracross.
Is there a reason why no one seems to be running Swords Dance? I think it buffs up your moves significantly enough that it's okay losing one of your coverage moves. I want to try this out:
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Swords Dance
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
I've got Sticky Web support and Stealth Rock support on my team to support this guy. I feel like after one SD, not much can stand up to it. Rock/Ground/Bug seems to be the best combination for 3 moves and it beats out Aegislash while Water and Grounds are hit hard by +2 EQ.
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Swords Dance
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
I've got Sticky Web support and Stealth Rock support on my team to support this guy. I feel like after one SD, not much can stand up to it. Rock/Ground/Bug seems to be the best combination for 3 moves and it beats out Aegislash while Water and Grounds are hit hard by +2 EQ.
Running SD is kind of overkill as Heracross has the 2nd highest atk stat in the game. Since there's so few pokemon that can't be OHKO'd by the right move, the focus should be on making sure you have that right move. Also, is it really that bad to 2HKO someone?
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