HGSS Megaspeculation Thread

[jujuomi]

Why can't you just talk to Erika in Kanto with a movie shaymin and then get the gracedia flower from her, and get the platinum orb from oak post-national dex with a Giratina . Oak could say he got it from his visit in sinnoh.

Assuming his Eterna City home is just one of his vacation homes or something.

This way you can get the other forms and still not have it interfere with the remake part of it. Since post-national dex doesn't have to correspond with the old games, as shown by FRLG.

EDIT: I also want to some more gizamimi pichu! She is awesome.

 

[Nintenfreak]

YeYesyes

Well they are known for patterns and they hardly ever stray from them in game. So yea it does cut Sinnoh/Hoenn Pokemon out of the picture, Pre-E4 anyway.

As much as money means to any company there is tradition, and I for one would not like to see HGSS pre-E4 play through soiled with pokemon not availibe in the originals, that's not to say I wouldn't support things like Houndour avalible a bit earlier than Lavendar Town.

After E4 bring it on give Clair Giratina for all I care I just want the first play through to stay true to the original G/S/C.

BTW for those hoping for better names on the US version, Nintendo of America Trademarked them so....

Seems there was 1 minor change between gym leader rosters between FRLG RBG Giovanni in FRLG has 2 Rhyhorns instead of a Ryhorn and a Rhydon like he had in RBG, so at the most maybe we will see some evolution definently nothing beyond 2nd gen though, like Falkner having a Pidgeot.

Yeah, its' a remake! That's why they haven't changed absolutely anything in this game, and we're back to using the old text based box system. Anyone hoping for the TMs we have in Diamond and Pearl can FORGET it, because this is a remake, and everything has to be exactly the same.

It doesn't matter what you want, really. Even in FireRed and LeafGreen, version exclusives were changed up. So don't go around saying that it's absolutely positively impossible that they won't do things a little differently this time. You want some Gold and Silver brand originalness? Go play Gold and Silver.

 

[Tytus]

That was unnecessarily harsh :/

If they're using the Johto dex, then you will probably be unable to obtain any non-Johto dex Pokemon prior to obtaining the National Dex. I would think they they will try to stay true enough to the originals to at least keep the same Pokedex.

Then again, I don't know if we should consider FRLGs lack of non-Kanto dex Pokemon a precident, since that was just one set of games. And we've seen the jumbled mess that is the Platinum Sinnoh dex.

It would be nice if we could evolve to the 3rd and 4th gen Pokes, even if they do not appear in the Pokedex until after you get the National dex, but the Pokedex just feels like one of those major things that should stick to the original.

 

[Tucker]

YeYesyes


Yeah, its' a remake! That's why they haven't changed absolutely anything in this game, and we're back to using the old text based box system. Anyone hoping for the TMs we have in Diamond and Pearl can FORGET it, because this is a remake, and everything has to be exactly the same.

It doesn't matter what you want, really. Even in FireRed and LeafGreen, version exclusives were changed up. So don't go around saying that it's absolutely positively impossible that they won't do things a little differently this time. You want some Gold and Silver brand originalness? Go play Gold and Silver.

Lol at smart guy, I'm all for updates as in the TMs obvious the ones we had since the start of 3rd Gen , and the new ones we got in 4th gen will stay. I'm not talking about locations changes of items, pokemon, minor changes that don't affect the plot of the game much.

EXAMPLE: In FR/LG you had to Tea instead of Lemonade, Fresh Water to advance pass Celadon City, change? yes; game changing? no.

I'm talking people talking about Clair having Salamence, or Pryce having Mamoswine, or expecting any evolution not avalible in the original GSC availible pre E4 play.

I'm for change it's a remake so of course there will be some changes to better the experiences, like version exclusivity I have no problem with this it doesn't affect the essence of the game.

It's obvious already that there will be changes starters following you around, new female trainer, new events(Pichu).

 

[Ash Borer]

Things like pryce having mamoswine, and jasmine using magnezone would be great. IT would be illogical to have these pokemon left out of the local dex.

 

[Tucker]

Things like pryce having mamoswine, and jasmine using magnezone would be great. IT would be illogical to have these pokemon left out of the local dex.

People just won't listen to reason,Goldbats evolve into Crobats, did they give Agatha them, Hitmontop is alot better than Hitmonchan did they replace it, Misty had Togepi in the Anmie did they give her that, Giovanni would have been a hell of alot cooler with Mewtwo on his final team instead of all Ground types.

They might reorder the Johto Dex, but seriously there will be no 4th or 3rd Generation pokemon until after the Elite Four.

Though most of my assumptions lie on the basis FRLG, history has shown us that Nitendo follows patterns with Pokemon I mean we have had how many trio Pokemon, the starters have been the same 3 types for how many generations, how many times has ash caught a flying type normal pokemon per saga, tradiition, tradition, tradition.

 

[Ash Borer]

People just won't listen to reason,Goldbats evolve into Crobats, did they give Agatha them, Hitmontop is alot better than Hitmonchan did they replace it, Misty had Togepi in the Anmie did they give her that, Giovanni would have been a hell of alot cooler with Mewtwo on his final team instead of all Ground types.

.

you argument is quite flawed, the only valid point you bring up is the crobat. Hitmontop is a totally different pokemon than hitmonchan, it shares a pre evo, thats it, magnezone and mamosine are in a chain of evos. SEcondly, togepi is not water type, togepi is not a chain of evos from the first gen, and the anime has almost no influence on the games (it is the opposite). LAstly, giovanni having mewtwo would be out of the question, mewtwo is legendary, and uber, no trainer has had either (not counting battle tower).

MY question is, why the hell did she not have crobat? I mean its the elite four, the most prestigous place in the whole game, is it too much to ask for fully evolved pokemon. There are other examples of this, which annoy me aswell.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

Tea and Lemonade is not the same as changing a region's Pokedex.

I want see Whitney's Miltank and go "What the heck is this uber cow?!". I want to devote the rest of my game to searching for a wild Miltank. I want to encounter a wild one for the first time on my way to Olivine. I want to happy dance at the sight. I want to catch it. I want to be shocked that the next route has a ranch devoted to uber cows. I want to cure the sick Miltank and purchase MooMoo Milk, then go catch yet another Miltank. I want to enter Olivine proud of my two Miltanks, then horribly find out the next two gyms will give them hell. I want to be joyous after defeating Jasmine with my deadly team of Miltank/Typhlosion/Miltank/fillers. All just like I did in Silver.

I do not want a big fat ugly Salamence tearing my cows/Typhlosion apart.

Thankfully the Johto dex will probably remain as the Kanto dex remained in FRLG. One of the main reasons Johto was the shit was because you could use a Corsola as your main Pokemon and do fine.

 

[Tucker]

you argument is quite flawed, the only valid point you bring up is the crobat. Hitmontop is a totally different pokemon than hitmonchan, it shares a pre evo, thats it, magnezone and mamosine are in a chain of evos. SEcondly, togepi is not water type, togepi is not a chain of evos from the first gen, and the anime has almost no influence on the games (it is the opposite). LAstly, giovanni having mewtwo would be out of the question, mewtwo is legendary, and uber, no trainer has had either (not counting battle tower).

MY question is, why the hell did she not have crobat? I mean its the elite four, the most prestigous place in the whole game, is it too much to ask for fully evolved pokemon. There are other examples of this, which annoy me aswell.

For metwo is only Uber by our Standards, it's a remake there will not be any big changes, and the Johto Dex will not have any new pokemon in it case closed.

My arguement is flawed ehh, Mamswine is not a Johto pokemon wth would it be availible in Johto anywhere before the elite four, same goes for Magnezone, Mismaguius, Honchcrow, Togekiss, Eletivire, Magmortar, Rhyperior, Leafeon, Glaceon, Bonsly, Mime Jr, the list goes on an on this pokemon simply won't be in the Johto Dex PRE E4, I don't think people are getting this there will be alot of changes after the E4 Kanto Gym Leaders, after the original playthroigh I don't care have all the changes an rosters updates you want.

Tea and Lemonade is not the same as changing a region's Pokedex.

I want see Whitney's Miltank and go "What the heck is this uber cow?!". I want to devote the rest of my game to searching for a wild Miltank. I want to encounter a wild one for the first time on my way to Olivine. I want to happy dance at the sight. I want to catch it. I want to be shocked that the next route has a ranch devoted to uber cows. I want to cure the sick Miltank and purchase MooMoo Milk, then go catch yet another Miltank. I want to enter Olivine proud of my two Miltanks, then horribly find out the next two gyms will give them hell. I want to be joyous after defeating Jasmine with my deadly team of Miltank/Typhlosion/Miltank/fillers. All just like I did in Silver.

I do not want a big fat ugly Salamence tearing my cows/Typhlosion apart.

Thankfully the Johto dex will probably remain as the Kanto dex remained in FRLG. One of the main reasons Johto was the shit was because you could use a Corsola as your main Pokemon and do fine.

You seem to be one of the only people who share my affinity for keeping the game as close to the original as possible.

 

[Ash Borer]

For metwo is only Uber by our Standards, it's a remake there will not be any big changes, and the Johto Dex will not have any new pokemon in it case closed.

Mewtwo is uber according to nintendo, as per it is banned from the tournaments, also having an evolution for a johto pokemon isnt a big change, I realise it wont happen, and if you look back I never said that it will happen, I just said I would like it better with the evolution.

 

[Gir!]

Ummm, Mewtwo is Uber by our standars AND by Nintendo standars, granted, Nintendo doesnt have any sense of balance on their ban-list, but besides, if Giovani had Mewtwo, how the hell would you manage to fill the Pokedex? I mean, theres only 1 Mewtwo, what would you do, steal it from him?

 

[Kristy Haruka]

Viridian Battle Building! I just replayed my Silver version and went in there and rematched with my best friend 4 years ago... I literally had tears in my eyes since I haven't seen her in forever and finally got to battle her badly trained Pokemon. XD

I hope they bring that back...

Yeah... I posted this in the wrong thread. D: And I didn't get it until hours after. :XXXX

 

[Diana]

I really don't expect them to have evolutions of Johto Pokemon before the National Dex. That being said, I don't think having them would really ruin the experience. It would really be running off the same formula and all, just with a few things with higher base stats. I wouldn't be opposed to it either way honestly.

I'm not advocating for random added Pokemon like Salamence, that's quite different.

 

[Familiar Trainer]

I think the starters should have higher base stats because Johto starters are the worst competitively compared to the other generations. :X

Base stats will definately NOT be toyed with. I do see it likely though that the Johto starters will get some extra oomph with some new moves.

Oh and I just remembered, one of my moms friends along with her daughters stayed at my house for a few weeks when I was like 8. The oldest daughter? She had a level 83 Wigglytuff (the rest of her team were like HM slaves). It just goes to prove my previous point even more. I remember her catching Ho-Oh while we and our moms were at a restaurant. I was in Mt. Moon watching the Clefairy dance. We both had those silly worm light things so we could see in the dark restaurant. Good times.

 

[adman2]

Ummm, Mewtwo is Uber by our standars AND by Nintendo standars, granted, Nintendo doesnt have any sense of balance on their ban-list, but besides, if Giovani had Mewtwo, how the hell would you manage to fill the Pokedex? I mean, theres only 1 Mewtwo, what would you do, steal it from him?

I guess you've never played Colosseum or XD. . .Snag Machine anyone?

:jump:

In all seriousness, I'm wondering if the Rotom formes, Skymin, and Giratina-O will work in the new games, or will it be like Deoxys in Advance (Attack form only in Fire Red, Speed only in Emerald, etc.), and the formes will be Platinum only. If they will be in HGSS, I wonder if Wifi will allow them.

If not, there's always Pyrite and Zirconia to look forward to (they'll probably have to downgrade for 5th gen)!

 

[EspyJoel]

I guess you've never played Colosseum or XD. . .Snag Machine anyone?

You could only catch shadow pokemon though using that :)

 

[A.P.]

They really ought to change the Johto Dex.

If they won't, then...it'll be bad.

People claim that they follow patterns. People claim that because of FRLG, they won't change HGSS either.

People claim that.

But if you wanted the originals, then why did they add the starters following you around? The Notched-Ear Pichu? Why would they do that?

FireRed and LeafGreen are fundamentally different from HeartGold and SoulSilver. Heck, Red and Blue were a different type of game than Gold and Silver, although they were similar to Ruby, Sapphire, Diamond, and Pearl.

You're wondering how that's true? Listen. Gold and Silver were designed as sequels, not as new games with the same tried-and-true formula. Johto had no Safari Zone, Cycling Road, etc. etc. It had Kanto.

They have to make it different, because most people who play (the little crybaby tots) haven't played FRLG, or haven't in a while. The whole sequel shit won't work. They have to change, the original version just won't flow. It will be different.

And you wonder why I think the new evos will be there? Firstly, having them not able to evolve would be stupid. Say you used a Dusk Stone on Murkrow, but it didn't evolve, just because you didn't have a piece of metal? Does that make sense?

Now, you purists will probably say, "Oh, there won't be a Dusk Stone before the E4, just so we can solve that problem." But you can trade a Dusk Stone from another HGSS. That could happen in FRLG. And things like happiness evolutions, why won't they be able to evolve? They will evolve. Things like Leafeon, Glaceon, Magnezone, and Probopass, which won't evolve without certain specifications - they'll be able to. hey could easily put an Ice or Moss Rock somewhere, and maybe they can have a Mt. Coronet Rock somewhere too, for Magnezone and Probopass.

And you people say, "They have patterns! Things stay the same!" Well, if that's the case, watch me twist your logic against you. In Diamond and Pearl, you were allowed to be traded non-Sinnoh Dex Pokémon before the National Dex, and technically, you could get the National Dex Pre-E4, and use Pal Park and dual-slot insertion and PokéRadar as well (I'm not sure about the last two, but it would make sense). Just because it happened last generation, doesn't mean it'll happen this generation, where it already hasn't happened.

Instead of only showing evidence that proves your point, look at all the evidence. Follow all the patterns, not just ones that aid your cause, or have relations with the current point at hand.

Anyways, onto my interpretation of the Johto Dex.

All the Johto Pokémon and their evolutions make 151.

Then, add those Pokémon that are in every Dex, like Geodude, Machop, and Abra, as well as some of those 3rd and 4th Gen Pokémon that fit that bill as well, like Feebas and Wingull (although I can't think of any 4th Gen ones).

Then, add a few of those Kanto Pokémon that have meaning in the game, like Gastly (Morty) and Bellsprout (Sprout Tower) in as well.

Finally, add a few random 3rd and 4th Gen Pokémon in to finish it off (maybe about ten-fifteen Pokémon, twice the number of random ones in Platinum). These shouldn't be stuff like Salamence, Metagross, and Garchomp, but things like Altaria, Roserade, etc.

And that's a new Johto Dex.

 

[Aiklap]

@ap13095 - i hope your right. One of the worst things about FRLG was how you couldn't trade with almost anything before you got the national dex. Gold and silver were also ment for people who hadn't bought RBY, to show the game. There would be little point in leaving out the new evolutions in the new games, in fact i wouldn't be surprised if ones like Bonsly were created for a re-make. There wouldn't be much point otherwise.

I also am hoping for a more challanging game, but without the necessaty of level grinding. If I dont black out at some point (even if it is the E4), I will find the game easy, even boring. Speaking of the E4, they really have to change that.... (about consistent weakness, Lance had 3 of the same pokemon....)

 

[Objection]

(about consistent weakness, Lance had 3 of the same pokemon....)

Albeit, Lance was the dragon-type trainer and back then there were only four dragon-types in existence (three of which were part of one evolutionary line). It's not like there were any pseudo-dragons back then that weren't weak to ice.

 

[Icalasari]

ap13095: Then it isn't a remake. It is, instead, a new game. It will likely not change rosters, and DEFINATELY WILL NOT CHANGE THE DEX. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you could evolve your OWN pokemon pre-e4. After all, it would wreck the timeline then. How?

FrLgRSE all took place before. The Hoenn Pokemon have already been discovered. What's more, Sinnoh is obviously in contact with Johto (look at DP opening)

They will likely keep Gym Rosters the same, and it would not be a remake if they change the dex

And of COURSE new features are added! It is a remake, not a port

 

[Aiklap]

Albeit, Lance was the dragon-type trainer and back then there were only four dragon-types in existence (three of which were part of one evolutionary line). It's not like there were any pseudo-dragons back then that weren't weak to ice.

True, but it was way too easy all the same. Im not sure it would be right to introduce a few more Dragons, or change Lance's Position as Champion. The best thing might be to put all of his dragons a few levels higher.

 

[Icalasari]

True, but it was way too easy all the same. Im not sure it would be right to introduce a few more Dragons, or change Lance's Position as Champion. The best thing might be to put all of his dragons a few levels higher.

This is one of the few cases I can see where they would change rosters. Kingdra/Dragonite/Dragonair/Charizard/Aerodactyl knowing Judgement/Gyarados, anyone?

 

[blasphemy1]

They really ought to change the Johto Dex.

If they won't, then...it'll be bad.

People claim that they follow patterns. People claim that because of FRLG, they won't change HGSS either.

People claim that.

But if you wanted the originals, then why did they add the starters following you around? The Notched-Ear Pichu? Why would they do that?

FireRed and LeafGreen are fundamentally different from HeartGold and SoulSilver. Heck, Red and Blue were a different type of game than Gold and Silver, although they were similar to Ruby, Sapphire, Diamond, and Pearl.

You're wondering how that's true? Listen. Gold and Silver were designed as sequels, not as new games with the same tried-and-true formula. Johto had no Safari Zone, Cycling Road, etc. etc. It had Kanto.

They have to make it different, because most people who play (the little crybaby tots) haven't played FRLG, or haven't in a while. The whole sequel shit won't work. They have to change, the original version just won't flow. It will be different.

And you wonder why I think the new evos will be there? Firstly, having them not able to evolve would be stupid. Say you used a Dusk Stone on Murkrow, but it didn't evolve, just because you didn't have a piece of metal? Does that make sense?

Now, you purists will probably say, "Oh, there won't be a Dusk Stone before the E4, just so we can solve that problem." But you can trade a Dusk Stone from another HGSS. That could happen in FRLG. And things like happiness evolutions, why won't they be able to evolve? They will evolve. Things like Leafeon, Glaceon, Magnezone, and Probopass, which won't evolve without certain specifications - they'll be able to. hey could easily put an Ice or Moss Rock somewhere, and maybe they can have a Mt. Coronet Rock somewhere too, for Magnezone and Probopass.

And you people say, "They have patterns! Things stay the same!" Well, if that's the case, watch me twist your logic against you. In Diamond and Pearl, you were allowed to be traded non-Sinnoh Dex Pokémon before the National Dex, and technically, you could get the National Dex Pre-E4, and use Pal Park and dual-slot insertion and PokéRadar as well (I'm not sure about the last two, but it would make sense). Just because it happened last generation, doesn't mean it'll happen this generation, where it already hasn't happened.

Instead of only showing evidence that proves your point, look at all the evidence. Follow all the patterns, not just ones that aid your cause, or have relations with the current point at hand.

Anyways, onto my interpretation of the Johto Dex.

All the Johto Pokémon and their evolutions make 151.

Then, add those Pokémon that are in every Dex, like Geodude, Machop, and Abra, as well as some of those 3rd and 4th Gen Pokémon that fit that bill as well, like Feebas and Wingull (although I can't think of any 4th Gen ones).

Then, add a few of those Kanto Pokémon that have meaning in the game, like Gastly (Morty) and Bellsprout (Sprout Tower) in as well.

Finally, add a few random 3rd and 4th Gen Pokémon in to finish it off (maybe about ten-fifteen Pokémon, twice the number of random ones in Platinum). These shouldn't be stuff like Salamence, Metagross, and Garchomp, but things like Altaria, Roserade, etc.

And that's a new Johto Dex.

I just want the old games, with Wifi capabilities, better graphics, and a few minor additions(minor as in DP --> Pt). Besides, the pokemon you are adding (Geodude, Machop, Abra, Gastly, and Bellsprout) were in GSC, so that shouldn't be a problem. Adding shit like Honchkrow would honestly just ruin the nostalgia factor for me, I would be fine if you could obtain them by trading over a Dusk Stone or whatever, however I do NOT want trainers to have them until you obtain the Nation Dex. Just my thoughts.

EDIT: As for Lance, his team will receive a huge boost, assuming they actually use dragons to their fullest potential. Draco Meteor and Outrage for his dragons. A fire move for Dragonite/Nair and a water move for Kingdra. Charizard should know a fire move, Air Slash, and Dragon Pulse. Gyarados should know Outrage, Waterfall, Dragon Dance. Aerodactyl can learn Dragon Claw, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. I think these new moves would drastically improve Lance's elegibility for champion, although I can't say my ingame team would handle it very well without being 5-10 levels higher, but come on, the E4 is never hard!

 

[Familiar Trainer]

They really ought to change the Johto Dex.

If they won't, then...it'll be bad.

Elaborate please. G/S were great.

But if you wanted the originals, then why did they add the starters following you around? The Notched-Ear Pichu? Why would they do that?

Because these are remakes, not ports.

You're wondering how that's true? Listen. Gold and Silver were designed as sequels, not as new games with the same tried-and-true formula. Johto had no Safari Zone, Cycling Road, etc. etc. It had Kanto.

They have to make it different, because most people who play (the little crybaby tots) haven't played FRLG, or haven't in a while. The whole sequel shit won't work. They have to change, the original version just won't flow. It will be different.

It did have the National Park though, and Cycling Road is stupid. Johto and Kanto even share a Pokemon League.

The G/S plot did explain itself a bit, playing R/B/FR/LG isn't really required.

Now, you purists will probably say, "Oh, there won't be a Dusk Stone before the E4, just so we can solve that problem." But you can trade a Dusk Stone from another HGSS. That could happen in FRLG. And things like happiness evolutions, why won't they be able to evolve? They will evolve. Things like Leafeon, Glaceon, Magnezone, and Probopass, which won't evolve without certain specifications - they'll be able to. hey could easily put an Ice or Moss Rock somewhere, and maybe they can have a Mt. Coronet Rock somewhere too, for Magnezone and Probopass.

I was one of the first to suggest this, but now even I am kind of doubting it. Nintendo loves money. This is why they have version exclusives. I wouldn't put it past them to make D/P required to evolve Magneton/Nosepass/Eevee.

And you people say, "They have patterns! Things stay the same!" Well, if that's the case, watch me twist your logic against you. In Diamond and Pearl, you were allowed to be traded non-Sinnoh Dex Pokémon before the National Dex, and technically, you could get the National Dex Pre-E4, and use Pal Park and dual-slot insertion and PokéRadar as well (I'm not sure about the last two, but it would make sense). Just because it happened last generation, doesn't mean it'll happen this generation, where it already hasn't happened.

I have nothing against being able to trade over foreign Pokemon to HGSS before getting the National Dex.

Just keep them out of in-game characters parties/wild until after the National Dex is obtained.

 

[Benjamin Breeg]

Albeit, Lance was the dragon-type trainer and back then there were only four dragon-types in existence (three of which were part of one evolutionary line). It's not like there were any pseudo-dragons back then that weren't weak to ice.

Kingdra says hi.