Horsea (Gen 4, LC Analysis)*

macle · Nov 19, 2009

yeah i'm finally posting it :3 i hope it's good enough

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/horsea

[Overview]

Horsea is a good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. It has the second highest Special Attack among all Pokemon with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke is often said to outclass Horsea, but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that separates Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility, which allows it to outpace all Choice Scarf users, something that Mantyke cannot do. Horsea can also use Agility to increase its Speed but Chinchou and Mantyke do that better.

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Horsea is a excellent special sweeper under the rain. With its great base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is strong enough to 2HKO Munchlax (one of the bulkiest special walls in LC) with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump in the rain. Timid is the preferred nature on this set, since it reaches 32 Speed with Swift Swim, allowing it to outspeed all Choice Scarfers in LC. Life Orb is the best item on this set in order to help Horsea score OHKOs and 2HKOs on some Pokemon; however, Oran Berry can help recover HP from priority attacks that Horsea is vulnerable to. Having both 36 Defense and Special Defense EVs may seem strange, but Horsea's HP reaches 19, a Life Orb number, without any investment.

Hydro Pump is the main attack on this set. It can tear through any Pokemon that does not resist it. Surf is an option if you find Hydro Pump's accuracy lacking, but you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like the aforementioned 2HKO on Munchlax. Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist Horsea's STAB attacks like Shroomish and Paras. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper super effectively, while Hidden Power Electric OHKOes Mantyke. Hidden Power Ground is an option to hit Croagunk in addition to Chinchou

To prove how powerful Hydro Pump is on Horsea, below are several damage calculations. All calculations factor in the boost from rain (except for the Snover calculation) and Life Orb.

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82% (2HKO with Oran)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85% (3HKO with Oran)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke: 52.38%-61.90%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 116 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 45.83%-54.17%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 220 HP / 68 SpD Sassy Bronzor: 75% - 91.7%</li>
</ul>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea's sweep. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their STAB priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well, as it can switch in easily and set up Stealth Rock, or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. It can also set up Rain Dance should it run out, allowing Horsea to resume its sweep. Snover shuts this set down easily by summoning hail, which removes Horsea's Swift Swim boost allows Snover to take it out with its STAB Grass-type attacks. Bronzor can stop all Snover sets barring the SubSeed set; there is nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It is best to attempt to switch in a powerful sweeper such as Houndour when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Snover hard with STAB moves. Chinchou or Mantyke will wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power Horsea is using. Croagunk can check both of them by switching in on a Water-type move and then KO them with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Wynaut is also a great choice for a partner to Horsea; it can trap Croagunk and kill it. It can also trap other Pokemon using support moves or attacks that Horsea resists, Encore them, and then let Horsea set up rain and sweep.

[Set]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper, except this set uses Agility to alleviate the problems of the duration of rain. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump but you do not get the boost from rain. Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea killed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set, because it allows Horsea to gain some health in the process of setting up Agility. You need to recover the much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability does not matter on this set, but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams and Sniper is not really helpful at all.

This set seems to be outclassed by Mantyke, but there are traits that make Horsea the better Agility user than Mantyke in certain cases. Horsea’s Special Attack and Speed are both higher by one point and it is capable of reaching 32 Speed while Mantyke cannot. Horsea also resists Ice Shard and it is not weak to Stealth Rock.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
Priority attacks hurt Horsea's sweep badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can come in on Agility or Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb, although it takes considerable damage from Ice Beam. Using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras, since it resists both of Paras's attacks and is immune to Spore because of its ability, Insomnia. Munchlax can take a couple of Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch into Munchlax. Wynaut can trap Croagunk, kill it, and Encore other moves to let Horsea get an Agility off.

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea sweep without risking damage while trying to set up rain. Meowth and Voltorb are both great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps, since it breaks Focus Sash and also deals a good deal of damage to Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea and Rain Dance teams in general.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in its counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, and Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel, Goldeen, and Omanyte can do this effectively. Omanyte with Chople Berry lures out Croagunk, survives its Vacuum Wave with Chople Berry, and returns with an OHKO against Croagunk via Earth Power. Omanyte can also risk a speed tie with Snover and try to KO it with AncientPower.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea, since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea easily. Paras works especially well with the Rain Dance Sweeper Horsea set, since Paras will restore HP thanks to Dry Skin. Paras can also spread sleep status, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed at Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk, and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. As mentioned previously, Bronzor can also set up dual screens, which Horsea loves. Wynaut can trap Croagunk and other Pokemon and allow Horsea to set up on them.

[Optional Changes]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk on the switch in. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer, but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options. Horsea can also try to run a Dragon Dance set, but its physical movepool is lacking and it is generally outclassed by Totodile.

[Counters]

Most of the counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it is using. Croagunk is an excellent counter for Horsea; it can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily because of its ability, Dry Skin, and can use a combination of Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock it out. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it is using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is a good counter to Horsea if it is not using Hidden Power Electric. Chinchou walls Horsea if it is using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and OHKOing it with a Grass-type move.

EspyJoel · Nov 20, 2009

I missed out on a few things when proofreading this earlier, it was late :(, so here's a few other things:

little mistake with table:

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85%</li>
</ul>

macle said:
Agility Sweeper 1st paragraph

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper except that you don't have to worry about rain ending, causing you to lose speed which can help you beat Snover. Timid nature allows to reach 32 Speed again which allows you to outspeed all Pokemon with Choice Scarf. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump's 120 base power is incredible but you might want to use Surf if you are afraid of missing. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set since most of the time when you use Agility, you will be hit by an attack. You need to recover much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on the set but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams.

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea come in a sweep without risking receiving damage while trying to set it up rain itself. Meowth and Voltorb are two great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps since it breaks Focus Sashes which allow the opponent a chance to attack, but it's not necessary. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea.

[Other Options]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk before it is able to OHKO Horsea with ThunderPunch. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually(removed a) better options.

[EVs]

The EVs for the Rain Dance and Agility sweepers are fairly straight forward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed allowing you to outspeed all scarfed Pokemon that don't have a boost. 200 SpA EVs is to maximize Special Attack for helping Horsea sweep to the best of its ability. Extra EVs are put into Def and SpD instead of HP because will minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb Number.

[Opinion]

Horsea is the good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. He has the second highest Special Attack for a Pokemon with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke often is said to outclass Horsea but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility which allows him to outspeed all Choice Scarf users; Mantyke can not do this.

[Counters]

Most of the other counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea. It can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily. Then Croagunk can use priority moves like Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock out Horsea. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is good counter to Horsea if Horsea is not using Hidden Power Electric since it's able to switch in and force Horsea out. Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set Horsea by stopping the rain, outspeeding Horsea, and then OHKOing it with either Seed Bomb or Grass Knot.

Black Buddha · Nov 20, 2009

Quick things:

Its Croagunk, not Croakgunk

Also why have you mentioned Tyrogue as a threat to Horsea >_>

I'll think iof other stuff later

Matthew · Nov 26, 2009

macle said:
yeah i'm finally posting it :3 i hope it's good enough

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/horsea

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

Horsea is a great special sweeper under the rain. With its great base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is capable of 2HKOing Munchlax with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump, provided that rain has been set up. Timid is the preferred nature on the set since it reaches 32 Speed which allows him to outspeed all Pokemon with Choice Scarf. Life Orb is the preferred item on the set to help Horsea get necessary OHKOes and 2HKOes on some Pokemon while Oran Berry can help recover HP from priority attacks that Horsea is vulnerable too. Having both 36 Defense and Special Defense EVs may seem random, but Horsea's HP reaches 19, a Life Orb number, without any investment.

Hydro Pump is the main attack on the set. It can tear through any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. Surf is an option to use if you are afraid of Hydro Pump missing but you miss out on some important OHKOes and 2HKOes, like the 2HKO on Munchlax. Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist the Water-type attacks like Shroomish or have an immunity to Water attacks, like Paras, due to it's ability Dry Skin. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper super effectively while Hidden Power Electric is great to hit Mantyke hard. Hidden Power Ground is a option to hit Croagunk and Electric-types.

To prove how powerful Hydro Pump is on Horsea, here are some damage calculations. All calculations factor in the boost from rain and Life Orb.

<ul class="Damage_Calculations"l>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke: 52.38%-61.90%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 116 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 45.83%-54.17%</li>
</ul>

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well as it can switch in on the priority attacks and set up Stealth Rock or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. Snover shuts this set down. It stops the rain by summoning hail, removing Horsea's Swift Swim boost, and allowing Snover to take out Horsea with Seed Bomb or Energy Ball. Bronzor can stop all Snover sets except the SubSeed set. There's nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It's best to try to switch in a powerful sweeper when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Horsea hard with strong moves. Chinchou and Mantyke wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power type Horsea is using. Croagunk can counter both of them by switching-in on a Water-type move and then knock them out with Fake Out and Sucker Punch.

[Set]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper except that you don't have to worry about rain ending, causing you to lose speed which can help you beat Snover. Timid nature allows to reach 32 Speed again which allows you to outpace all Pokemon with Choice Scarf. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump. Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea KOed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set since most of the time when you use Agility, you will be hit by an attack. You need to recover much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on the set but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams.

This set seems to be outclassed by Mantyke but there are certain things that make Horsea better user of Agility than Mantyke in certain cases. Horsea has 1 point higher Special Attack and Speed than Mantyke, and is capable of reaching 32 Speed while Mantyke can't which is a key factor. Also Horsea is neutral to Ice Shard and isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

Once again, priority attacks hurt Horsea badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can some in on Agility and Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb. So using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras Paras since it resists both of Paras' attacks and is immune to Spore because of the ability Insomnia. Munchlax can take a couple Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch in to Muchlax. Bronzor can set up screens and Stealth Rocks, though watch out for Munchlax carrying Fire Punch.

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea come in a sweep without risking receiving damage while trying to set it up rain itself. Meowth and Voltorb are 2 great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps since it breaks Focus Sashes which allow the opponent a chance to attack, but it's not necessary. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in it's counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel and Goldeen can do this effectively with their great Attack stats and Speed.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea. Paras works especially great with Rain Dance Horsea set since Paras will restore HP because of Dry Skin and can counter Pokemon like Chinchou and Mantyke who can give Horsea problems. Paras can also spread sleep, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed for Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. Also Bronzor can set up dual screens which Agility Horsea loves.

[Other Options]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk before it is able to OHKO Horsea with ThunderPunch. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options.

Horsea can also try to run a Dragon Dance set but his physical movepool is lacking and is outclassed by Totodile.

[EVs]

The EVs for the Rain Dance and Agility sweepers are fairly straight forward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed allowing you to outpace all scarfed Pokemon that don't have a boost. 200 Special Attack EVs is to maximize Special Attack for helping Horsea sweep to the best of its ability. Extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP because will minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb Number.

[Opinion]

Horsea is the good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. He has the second highest Special Attack for a Pokemon with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke often is said to outclass Horsea but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility which allows him to outpace all Choice Scarf users, Mantyke can not do this.

[Counters]

Most of the other counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea. It can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily. Then Croagunk can use priority moves like Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock out Horsea. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is good counter to Horsea if Horsea is not using Hidden Power Electric since it's able to switch in and force Horsea out. Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set Horsea by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and then OHKOing it with either Seed Bomb or Energy Ball.

I just did a quick check, I'll do more later

TotalPotato · Nov 26, 2009

I think you meant to put that Horsea resists Ice Shard.

Xia · Dec 13, 2009

Found a little typo.

EVs said:
Extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP because with minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb Number.

EDIT: Also, be sure to revise instances where you use OHKO(e)s; OHKOs is the noun form (Horsea gets many OHKOs), while OHKOes is the verb form (Horsea OHKOes it).

macle · Dec 13, 2009

ok thanks joel, gen, total potato, and xia <3

edit fixing ohkos/es

Fuzznip · Dec 14, 2009

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

Horsea is a great special sweeper under the rain. With its great base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is strong enough to 2HKO Munchlax with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump under the rain, one of the bulkiest special walls in LC. Timid is the preferred nature on this set, since it reaches 32 Speed, which allows him to outspeed all Pokemon with Choice Scarf. Life Orb is the preferred item on this set to help Horsea get necessary OHKOs and 2HKOs on some Pokemon, while Oran Berry can help recover HP from priority attacks that Horsea is vulnerable too. Having both 36 Defense and Special Defense EVs may seem random, but Horsea's HP reaches 19, a Life Orb number, without any investment.

Hydro Pump is the main attack on this set. It can tear through any Pokemon that doesn't resist it, even Pokemon that do still take a hefty amount of damage. Surf is an option to use if you are afraid of Hydro Pump missing, but you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like the aforementioned 2HKO on Munchlax. Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist Horsea's STAB attacks, like Shroomish, or have an immunity to them, like Paras, due to it's ability, Dry Skin. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper super effectively, while Hidden Power Electric is great to hit Mantyke hard. However, Hidden Power Ground is an option to hit Croagunk and Electric-types if they cause trouble.

To prove how powerful Hydro Pump is on Horsea, below are several damage calculations. All calculations factor in the boost from rain and Life Orb.

<ul class="Damage_Calculations"l>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke: 52.38%-61.90%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 116 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 45.83%-54.17%</li>
</ul>

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea's sweeping. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their STAB priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well, as it can switch in on their priority attacks and set up Stealth Rock or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. It can also set up Rain Dance should it die out, allowing Horsea to get right into sweeping. Snover shuts this set down easily. It stops the rain by summoning hail, removing Horsea's Swift Swim boost, and allowing Snover to take it out with its STAB Grass-type attacks. Bronzor can stop all Snover sets barring the SubSeed set. There's nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It's best to try to switch in a powerful sweeper when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Snover hard with STAB moves. Chinchou and Mantyke wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power type Horsea is using. Croagunk can counter both of them by switching in on a Water-type move and then knock them out with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch.

[Set]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper, except that you don't have to worry about the rain ending which causes Horsea to lose its boosted Speed, making it revenge killed more easily. A Timid nature allows Horsea to reach 32 Speed, which lets you outpace all Pokemon with Choice Scarf. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump. Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea KOed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set, since most of the time when you use Agility, you will be hit by an attack. You need to recover the much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on this set, but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams.

This set seems to be outclassed by Mantyke, but there are certain things that make Horsea the better user of Agility than Mantyke in certain cases. Horsea has 1 point higher Special Attack and Speed than Mantyke, and is capable of reaching 32 Speed while Mantyke can't, which is a key factor. Also, Horsea resists Ice Shard and isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

Once again, priority attacks hurt Horsea badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can come in on Agility or Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb. Using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras, since it resists both of Paras' attacks and is immune to Spore because of its ability, Insomnia. Munchlax can take a couple Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch in to Muchlax. Bronzor can set up screens and Stealth Rock, though watch out for Munchlax carrying Fire Punch.

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea come in to sweep without risking receiving damage while trying to set up rain itself. Meowth and Voltorb are two great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps, since it breaks Focus Sashes which allow the opponent a chance to attack, but it's not necessary. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea and Rain Dance teams in general.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in it's counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, and Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel and Goldeen can do this effectively with their great Attack and Speed stats. Also, Omanyte with Chople Berry can lure out Croagunk, survive its Vacuum Wave, and return with an OHKO against Croagunk with Earth Power.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea, since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea. Paras works especially well with the Rain Dance Horsea set, since Paras will restore HP because of Dry Skin and can counter Pokemon like Chinchou and Mantyke who can give Horsea problems (Ice Beam hurts badly, I think it OHKOes). Paras can also spread sleep status, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed for Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. Like mentioned previously, Bronzor can also set up dual screens, which Horsea loves.

[Other Options]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk before it is able to OHKO Horsea with ThunderPunch. (Croagunk can beat Horsea with Fake Out + Sucker Punch/Vacuum Wave) You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer, but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options.

Horsea can also try to run a Dragon Dance set, but his physical movepool is lacking and is outclassed by Totodile.

[EVs]

The EVs for the Rain Dance and Agility sweepers are fairly straightforward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed under the rain or with an Agility boost, letting you outpace all scarfed Pokemon that don't have a boost in Speed. 200 Special Attack EVs is to maximize Special Attack for helping Horsea sweep to the best of its ability. The extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP, because with minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb number.

[Opinion]

Horsea is a good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. He has the second highest Special Attack for a Pokemon with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke is often said to outclass Horsea, but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility, which allows him to outpace all Choice Scarf users, something that Mantyke can't do.

[Counters]

Most of the counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea. It can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily because of its ability, Dry Skin, and can use priority moves like Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock him out. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is good counter to Horsea if he is not using Hidden Power Electric, since it's able to switch in and force Horsea out (how?). Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and then OHKOing it with either Seed Bomb or Energy Ball.

I may have accidently referred to Horsea as "it" rather than "he" in some places, so sorry for that.

Good job.

Articanus · Dec 14, 2009

Don't most Snover remove rain by bringing in hail? and don't most mantyke have water absorb?

MAybe not the best calculation demonstrations....

little gk · Dec 14, 2009

The hit on Mantyke most likely assumes Swift Swim if there were calcs provided, Articanus. The are still somewhat common with RD teams around. Snover on the other hand, may be a problem.

macle · Dec 14, 2009

Articanus said:
Don't most Snover remove rain by bringing in hail? and don't most mantyke have water absorb?

MAybe not the best calculation demonstrations....

I was assuming the mantyke has swift swim and i removed the rain boost from the snover calc. iirc.

Tayla · Dec 20, 2009

Horsea is a great special sweeper under the rain. With its great base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is strong enough to 2HKO Munchlax, one of the bulkiest special walls in LC, with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump under the rain.

The sentence flows much better that way.

franky · Dec 26, 2009

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

Horsea is a great special sweeper under the rain. With its great Base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is strong enough to 2HKO Munchlax - one of the bulkiest special walls in LC, with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump under the rain. Timid is the preferred nature on this set, since he reaches 32 Speed, which allows him to outspeed everything with a Choice Scarf. Life Orb is the preferred item on this set in order to help Horsea get necessary OHKOs and 2HKOs on some Pokemon, while Oran Berry can help recover HP from priority attacks that Horsea is vulnerable too. Having both 36 Defense and Special Defense EVs may seem random, but Horsea's HP reaches 19, a Life Orb number, without any investment.

Hydro Pump is the main attack on this set. It can tear through any Pokemon that doesn't resist it, even Pokemon that normally take it still take a hefty amount of damage. Surf is an option to use if you are afraid of Hydro Pump missing, but you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like the aforementioned 2HKO on Munchlax. Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist Horsea's STAB attacks, like Shroomish and Paras. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper for super effective damage, while Hidden Power Electric is great to hit Mantyke hard. However, Hidden Power Ground is an option to hit Croagunk and Electric-types if they cause trouble.

To prove how powerful Hydro Pump is on Horsea, below are several damage calculations. All calculations factor in the boost from rain (except for the Snover calculation) and Life Orb.

<ul class="Damage_Calculations"l>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke: 52.38%-61.90%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 116 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 45.83%-54.17%</li>
</ul>

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea's sweeping. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their STAB priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well, as it can switch in on their priority attacks and set up Stealth Rock, or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. It can also set up Rain Dance should it die out, allowing Horsea to get right into sweeping. Snover shuts this set down easily. It stops the rain by summoning hail, removing Horsea's Swift Swim boost, and this allows Snover to take it out with its STAB Grass-type attacks. Bronzor can stop all Snover sets barring the SubSeed set. There's nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It's best to try to switch in a powerful sweeper when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Snover hard with STAB moves. Chinchou and Mantyke wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power type Horsea is using. Croagunk can check both of them by switching in on a Water-type move, and then knock them out with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch.

[Set]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper, except that you don't have to worry about the rain ending which causes Horsea to lose its boosted Speed, making it revenge killed more easily. A Timid nature allows Horsea to reach 32 Speed, which lets you outpace everything with a Choice Scarf. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump. Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea killed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set, because it allows Horsea to gain some health in the process of setting up Agility. You need to recover the much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on this set, but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams.

This set seems to be outclassed by Mantyke, but there are certain things that make Horsea the better user of Agility than Mantyke in certain cases. Horsea has 1 point higher Special Attack and Speed than Mantyke, and is capable of reaching 32 Speed while Mantyke can't, which is a key factor. Also, Horsea resists Ice Shard and it isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

Once again, priority attacks hurt Horsea's sweep badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can come in on Agility or Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb. Using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras, since it resists both of Paras' attacks and is immune to Spore because of its ability Insomnia. Munchlax can take a couple Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch in to Muchlax. Bronzor can set up screens and Stealth Rock, though watch out for Munchlax carrying Fire Punch.

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea come in to sweep without risking receiving damage while trying to set up rain himself. Meowth and Voltorb are two great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps, since it breaks Focus Sash. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea and Rain Dance teams in general.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in it's counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, and Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel and Goldeen can do this effectively with their great Attack and Speed stats. Also, Omanyte with Chople Berry can lure out Croagunk by surviving its Vacuum Wave, and return with an OHKO against Croagunk with Earth Power.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea, since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea. Paras works especially well with the Rain Dance Horsea set, since Paras will restore HP because of Dry Skin. Paras can also spread sleep status, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed at Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk, and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. Like mentioned previously, Bronzor can also set up dual screens, which Horsea loves.

[Other Options]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk on the switch in. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer, but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options.

Horsea can also try to run a Dragon Dance set, but his physical movepool is lacking and it is generally outclassed by Totodile.

[EVs]

The EVs for the Rain Dance and Agility sweepers are fairly straightforward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed under the rain or with an Agility boost, letting you outpace all Scarfed Pokemon that doesn't have a boost in Speed. 200 Special Attack EVs is to maximize Special Attack for helping Horsea sweep to the best of his ability. The extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP, because with minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb number.

[Opinion]

Horsea is a good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. He has the second highest Special Attack among everything with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke is often said to outclass Horsea, but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility, which allows it to outpace all Choice Scarf users, something that Mantyke can't do.

[Counters]

Most of the counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea. It can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily because of its ability, Dry Skin, and can use a combination of Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock it out. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is a good counter to Horsea if he is not using Hidden Power Electric, since it's able to switch in and force Horsea out with Hidden Power Electric. Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and then OHKOing it with a Grass-type move.
---

I promised i would edit it. changes in bold, good job

iss · Dec 28, 2009

Changes in Bold

macle said:
yeah i'm finally posting it :3 i hope it's good enough

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/horsea

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

Horsea is a great special sweeper under the rain. With its great Base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is strong enough to 2HKO Munchlax (one of the bulkiest special walls in LC) with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump in the rain. Timid is the preferred nature on this set, since it reaches 32 Speed with Swift Swim, allowing it to outspeed all Choice Scarfers in LC. Life Orb is the preferred item on this set in order to help Horsea get (remove necessary) OHKOs and 2HKOs on some Pokemon, while Oran Berry can help recover HP from priority attacks that Horsea is vulnerable too. Having both 36 Defense and Special Defense EVs may seem strange, but Horsea's HP reaches 19, a Life Orb number, without any investment.

Hydro Pump is the main attack on this set. It can tear through any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. (removed a chunk, makes no sense and not necessary) Surf is an option to use if Hydro Pump's accuracy is lacking (reworded), but you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like the aforementioned 2HKO on Munchlax. Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist Horsea's STAB attacks, like Shroomish and Paras. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper for super effective damage, while Hidden Power Electric OHKOs Mantyke (removed hard). (removed however) Hidden Power Ground is an option to hit Croagunk and Electric-types if they cause trouble.

To prove how powerful Hydro Pump is on Horsea, below are several damage calculations. All calculations factor in the boost from rain (except for the Snover calculation) and Life Orb.

<ul class="Damage_Calculations"l>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82% (2HKO through Oran)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85% (3HKO with Oran) (I really think this calc should be removed and replaced with a calc on Bronzor)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke: 52.38%-61.90%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 116 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 45.83%-54.17%</li>
</ul>

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea's sweep. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their STAB priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well, as it can switch in on their priority attacks and set up Stealth Rock, or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. It can also set up Rain Dance should it run out, allowing Horsea to begin sweeping. Snover shuts this set down easily. It stops the rain by summoning hail, removing Horsea's Swift Swim boost, and this allows Snover to take it out with its STAB Grass-type attacks. (And yet you put a calc against it in the calc section, kinda contradictory) Bronzor can stop all Snover sets barring the SubSeed set. There is nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It is best to attempt to switch in a powerful sweeper (such as?) when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Snover hard with STAB moves. Chinchou or Mantyke will wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power (removed type) Horsea is using. Croagunk can check both of them by switching in on a Water-type move(no comma) and then KO them with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch.

[Set]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper, except this set uses Agility to alleviate the problems of the length of rain. (reworded) A Timid nature allows Horsea to reach 32 Speed, which lets you outpace everything with a Choice Scarf. (You said this earlier, I don't think you should say it again.) You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump. (Mention both STABs not being as strong without the rain boost, especially Hydro Pump not 2HKOing Munchlax) Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea killed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set, because it allows Horsea to gain some health in the process of setting up Agility. You need to recover the much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on this set, but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams. (Sniper is rather useless imo)

This set seems to be outclassed by Mantyke, but there are certain things that make Horsea the better user of Agility than Mantyke in certain cases. Horsea has 1 base point higher Special Attack and Speed than Mantyke, and is capable of reaching 32 Speed while Mantyke can't, which is a key factor. Also, Horsea resists Ice Shard and it isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

Once again, priority attacks hurt Horsea's sweep badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can come in on Agility or Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb. (really, ice beam says hi) Using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras, since it resists both of Paras' attacks and is immune to Spore because of its ability Insomnia. (are you sure Hoothoot is a good idea?) Munchlax can take a couple Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch into Muchlax. Bronzor can set up screens and Stealth Rock, though watch out for Munchlax carrying Fire Punch. (Fire Punch is the standard)

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea (removed three words) sweep without risking (removed) damage while trying to set up rain (removed himself). Meowth and Voltorb are two great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps, since it breaks Focus Sash. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea and Rain Dance teams in general.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in it's counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, and Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel and Goldeen can do this effectively with their great Attack and Speed stats. Also, Omanyte with Chople Berry can lure out Croagunk by surviving its Vacuum Wave, and return with an OHKO against Croagunk with Earth Power.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea, since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea. Paras works especially well with the Rain Dance Horsea set, since Paras will restore HP because of Dry Skin. Paras can also spread sleep status, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed at Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk, and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. Like mentioned previously, Bronzor can also set up dual screens, which Horsea loves.

(Mention Wynaut- it allows set-up, and it is a 100% counter to Croagunk barring hax)

[Other Options]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk on the switch in. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer, but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options.

Horsea can also try to run a Dragon Dance set, but his physical movepool is lacking and it is generally outclassed by Totodile.

[EVs]

The EVs for the Rain Dance and Agility sweepers are fairly straightforward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed under the rain or with an Agility boost, letting you outpace all Scarfed Pokemon that doesn't have a boost in Speed. 200 Special Attack EVs is to maximize Special Attack for helping Horsea sweep to the best of his ability. The extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP, because with minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb number.

[Opinion]

Horsea is a good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. He has the second highest Special Attack among everything with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke is often said to outclass Horsea, but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility, which allows it to outpace all Choice Scarf users, something that Mantyke can't do.

[Counters]

Most of the counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea. It can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily because of its ability, Dry Skin, and can use a combination of Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock it out. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is a good counter to Horsea if he is not using Hidden Power Electric, since it's able to switch in and force Horsea out with Hidden Power Electric. Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and then OHKOing it with a Grass-type move.

Pretty good.

macle · Jan 9, 2010

ty iss for the comments. I added some stuff so i need someone to proofread it.

jumpluff · Jan 10, 2010

i'll finish later <3

macle said:
yeah i'm finally posting it :3 i hope it's good enough

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/horsea

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

Horsea is a great special sweeper under the rain. With its great base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is strong enough to 2HKO Munchlax (one of the bulkiest special walls in LC) with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump in the rain. Timid is the preferred nature on this set, since it reaches 32 Speed with Swift Swim, allowing it to outspeed all Choice Scarfers in LC. Life Orb is the best item on this set in order to help Horsea score OHKOs and 2HKOs on some Pokemon, while Oran Berry can help recover HP from priority attacks that Horsea is vulnerable [color=#FF0FF]to[/color]. Having both 36 Defense and Special Defense EVs may seem strange, but Horsea's HP reaches 19, a Life Orb number, without any investment.

Hydro Pump is the main attack on this set. It can tear through any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. Surf is an option to use if you find Hydro Pump's accuracy lacking, but you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like the aforementioned 2HKO on Munchlax. Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist Horsea's STAB attacks, like Shroomish and Paras. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper for super effective damage, while Hidden Power Electric OHKOs Mantyke. Hidden Power Ground is an option to hit Croagunk and Electric-types if they cause trouble.

To prove how powerful Hydro Pump is on Horsea, below are several damage calculations. All calculations factor in the boost from rain (except for the Snover calculation) and Life Orb.

<ul class="Damage_Calculations">
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82% 2HKO through Oran)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85% (3HKO with Oran)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke: 52.38%-61.90%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 116 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 45.83%-54.17%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 220 HP / 68 SpD Sassy Bronzor: 75% - 91.7%</li>
</ul>

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea's sweep. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their STAB priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well, as it can switch in on their priority attacks and set up Stealth Rock, or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. It can also set up Rain Dance should it run out, allowing Horsea to begin sweeping. Snover shuts this set down easily. It stops the rain by summoning hail, removing Horsea's Swift Swim boost, and this allows Snover to take it out with its STAB Grass-type attacks. Bronzor can stop all Snover sets barring the SubSeed set. There is nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It is best to attempt to switch in a powerful sweeper such as Houndour when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Snover hard with STAB moves. Chinchou or Mantyke will wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power Horsea is using. Croagunk can check both of them by switching in on a Water-type move and then KO them with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Wynaut is also a great choice for a partner to Horsea. It can trap Croagunk and kill it. It can also trap other Pokemon using support moves or attacks that Horsea resists, Encore it, and then let Horsea set up rin and sweep.

[Set]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper, except this set uses Agility to alleviate the problems of the length of rain. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump but you don't get the boost from Rain. Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea killed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set, because it allows Horsea to gain some health in the process of setting up Agility. You need to recover the much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on this set, but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams and Sniper isn't really helpful at all.

This set seems to be outclassed by Mantyke, but there are certain things that make Horsea the better user of Agility than Mantyke in certain cases. Horsea has 1base point higher Special Attack and Speed than Mantyke, and is capable of reaching 32 Speed while Mantyke can't, which is a key factor. Also, Horsea resists Ice Shard and it isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

Once again, priority attacks hurt Horsea's sweep badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can come in on Agility or Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb though it takes considerable damage from Ice Beam. Using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras, since it resists both of Paras' attacks and is immune to Spore because of its ability Insomnia. Munchlax can take a couple Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch into Muchlax. Misdreavus with Will-O-Wisp can lure in Munchlax and burn it. Once again Wynaut can trap Croagunk, kill it, and encore moves that Horsea can get an Agility off of.

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea sweep without risking damage while trying to set up rain . Meowth and Voltorb are two great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps, since it breaks Focus Sash. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea and Rain Dance teams in general.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in it's counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, and Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel, Goldeen, and Omanyte can do this effectively. Also, Omanyte with Chople Berry can lure out Croagunk by surviving its Vacuum Wave, and return with an OHKO against Croagunk with Earth Power. Omanyte can also risk a speed tie with Snover, and try to KO it with Ancient Power.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea, since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea. Paras works especially well with the Rain Dance Horsea set, since Paras will restore HP because of Dry Skin. Paras can also spread sleep status, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed at Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk, and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. Like mentioned previously, Bronzor can also set up dual screens, which Horsea loves. Wynaut can trap Croagunk and other Pokemon and allow Horsea to set up on them.

[Other Options]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk on the switch in. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer, but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options.

Horsea can also try to run a Dragon Dance set, but his physical movepool is lacking and it is generally outclassed by Totodile.

[EVs]

The EVs for the Rain Dance and Agility sweepers are fairly straightforward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed under the rain or with an Agility boost, letting you outpace all Scarfed Pokemon that doesn't have a boost in Speed. 200 Special Attack EVs is to maximize Special Attack for helping Horsea sweep to the best of his ability. The extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP, because with minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb number.

[Opinion]

Horsea is a good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. He has the second highest Special Attack among everything with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke is often said to outclass Horsea, but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility, which allows it to outpace all Choice Scarf users, something that Mantyke can't do.

[Counters]

Most of the counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea. It can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily because of its ability, Dry Skin, and can use a combination of Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock it out. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is a good counter to Horsea if he is not using Hidden Power Electric, since it's able to switch in and force Horsea out with Hidden Power Electric. Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and then OHKOing it with a Grass-type move.

whistle · Jan 10, 2010

requested

EDIT OH F U JUMPLUFF >:(

[SET]
name: Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Life Orb / Oran Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

Horsea is a great special sweeper under the rain. With its great Base 70 Special Attack, Horsea is strong enough to 2HKO Munchlax (one of the bulkiest special walls in LC) with a Life Orb boosted Hydro Pump in the rain. Timid is the preferred nature on this set, since it reaches 32 Speed with Swift Swim, allowing it to outspeed all Choice Scarfers in LC. Life Orb is the preferred item on this set in order to help Horsea get (space here) OHKOs and 2HKOs on some Pokemon(,)(;) while however, Oran Berry can help recover HP from priority attacks that Horsea is vulnerable to. Having both 36 Defense and Special Defense EVs may seem strange, but Horsea's HP reaches 19, a Life Orb number, without any investment.

Hydro Pump is the main attack on this set. It can tear through any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. Surf is an option to use if Hydro Pump's accuracy is lacking (extra space here), but you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like the aforementioned 2HKO on Munchlax (anything else specific?). Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist Horsea's STAB attacks, like Shroomish and Paras. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper for super effective damage, while Hidden Power Electric OHKOs Mantyke. Hidden Power Ground is an option to hit Croagunk in addition to Chinchou and Electric-types if they cause trouble.

To prove how powerful Hydro Pump is on Horsea, below are several damage calculations. All calculations factor in the boost from rain (except for the Snover calculation) and Life Orb.

<ul class="Damage_Calculations"l>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Munchlax: 66.67%-81.82%(2HKO through Oran)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs Max HP / Max SpD Chinchou: 44.44%-51.85% (3HKO with Oran)</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke: 52.38%-61.90%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 116 HP / 0 SpD Snover: 45.83%-54.17%</li>
<li>Hydro Pump vs 220 HP / 68 SpD Sassy Bronzor: 75% - 91.7%</li>
</ul>

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea's sweep. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their STAB priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well, as it can switch in on their priority attacks easily and set up Stealth Rock, or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. It can also set up Rain Dance should it run out, allowing Horsea to begin sweeping resume its sweep. Snover shuts this set down easily. It stops the rain by summoning hail, which removesHorsea's Swift Swim boost, and this allows Snover to take it out with its STAB Grass-type attacks. Bronzor can stop all Snover sets barring the SubSeed set. There is nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It is best to attempt to switch in a powerful sweeper such as Houndour when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Snover hard with STAB moves. Chinchou or Mantyke will wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power Horsea is using. Croagunk can check both of them by switching in on a Water-type move and KOing them with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Wynaut is also a great choice for a partner to Horsea. It can trap Croagunk and kill it. It can also trap other Pokemon using support moves or attacks that Horsea resists, Encore them, and then let Horsea set up Rain and sweep.

[Set]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 36 Def / 200 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe

[Set Comments]

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper, except this set uses Agility to alleviate the problems of the length of rain. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump but you don't get the boost from Rain. Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea killed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set, because it allows Horsea to gain some health in the process of setting up Agility. You need to recover the much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on this set, but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams and Sniper isn't really helpful at all.

This set seems to be outclassed by Mantyke, but there are certain things that make Horsea the better user of Agility than Mantyke in certain cases. Horsea has 1 base point higher Special Attack and Speed (both by one base point) than Mantyke, and is capable of reaching 32 Speed while Mantyke can't, which is a key factor. Also, Horsea resists Ice Shard and it isn't weak to Stealth Rock.

Once again, priority attacks hurt Horsea's sweep badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can come in on Agility or Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb(,) though it takes considerable damage from Ice Beam. Using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras, since it resists both of Paras' attacks and is immune to Spore because of its ability Insomnia. Munchlax can take a couple of Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch into Muchlax. Misdreavus with Will-O-Wisp can lure in Munchlax and burn it. Once again(,) Wynaut can trap Croagunk, kill it, and Encore other moves that to let Horsea can get an Agility off of.

[Team Options]

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea sweep without risking damage while trying to set up rain . Meowth and Voltorb are two great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps, since it breaks Focus Sash. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea and Rain Dance teams in general.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in it's counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, and Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel, Goldeen, and Omanyte can do this effectively. Also, Omanyte with Chople Berry lures out Croagunk(,) survives its Vacuum Wave with the Chople Berry, and returns with an OHKO against Croagunk with Earth Power. Omanyte can also risk a speed tie with Snover, and try to KO it with Ancient Power.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea, since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea. Paras works especially well with the Rain Dance Horsea set, since Paras will restore HP because of Dry Skin. Paras can also spread sleep status, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed at Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk, and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. As mentioned previously, Bronzor can also set up dual screens, which Horsea loves. Wynaut can trap Croagunk and other Pokemon and allow Horsea to set up on them.

[Other Options]

On the Agility and Rain Dance sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk on the switch in. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer, but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options.

Horsea can also try to run a Dragon Dance set, but its physical movepool is lacking and it is generally outclassed by Totodile.

[EVs]

The EVs for the Rain Dance and Agility sweepers are fairly straightforward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed under the rain or with an Agility boost, letting you outpace all Scarfed Pokemon that doesn't have a boost in Speed. 200 Special Attack EVs is to maximizes Special Attack for helping Horsea sweep to the best of his ability. The extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP, because with minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb number.

[Opinion]

Horsea is a good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. He has the second highest Special Attack among everything with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke is often said to outclass Horsea, but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility, which allows it to outpace all Choice Scarf users, something that Mantyke can't do.

[Counters]

Most of the counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea. It can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily because of its ability, Dry Skin, and can use a combination of Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock it out. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is a good counter to Horsea if it is not using Hidden Power Electric, since it's able to switch in and force Horsea out with Hidden Power Electric. On the other hand, Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and then OHKOing it with a Grass-type move.

Xia · Jan 21, 2010

Hydro Pump is the main attack on this set. It can tear through any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. Surf is an option to use if you find Hydro Pump's accuracy lacking, but you miss out on some important OHKOs and 2HKOs, like the aforementioned 2HKO on Munchlax. Ice Beam is useful to hit Grass-types that resist Horsea's STAB attacks, like Shroomish and Paras. Hidden Power Grass allows you to hit Chinchou and Wooper for super effective damage, while Hidden Power Electric OHKOes Mantyke. Hidden Power Ground is an option to hit Croagunk in addition to Chinchou

Priority attackers are the bane of Horsea's sweep. Meowth, Croagunk, and Taillow are all capable of heavily damaging Horsea with their STAB priority moves. Bronzor handles these threats quite well, as it can switch in easily and set up Stealth Rock, or punish them with Earthquake or Psychic. It can also set up Rain Dance should it run out, allowing Horsea to resume its sweep. Snover shuts this set down easily by summoning hail, which removes Horsea's Swift Swim boost allows Snover to take it out with its STAB Grass-type attacks. Bronzor can stop all Snover sets barring the SubSeed set—there is nothing that can deal with the SubSeed set 100% of the time. It is best to attempt to switch in a powerful sweeper such as Houndour when Snover uses Protect and then continuously hit Snover hard with STAB moves. Chinchou or Mantyke will wall Horsea depending on the Hidden Power Horsea is using. Croagunk can check both of them by switching in on a Water-type move and then KO them with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch. Wynaut is also a great choice for a partner to Horsea; it can trap Croagunk and kill it. It can also trap other Pokemon using support moves or attacks that Horsea resists, Encore them, and then let Horsea set up rain and sweep.

This set is similar to the Rain Dance sweeper, except this set uses Agility to alleviate the problems of the duration of rain. You still have the choice between Surf and Hydro Pump but you don't get the boost from rain. Using Hydro Pump over Surf is yet again up to preference. Hydro Pump will obviously hit harder than Surf can, but it has the chance to miss, possibly getting Horsea killed. Oran Berry is the preferred item on this set, because it allows Horsea to gain some health in the process of setting up Agility. You need to recover the much needed HP to help prevent your sweep being ended by priority attacks. The ability doesn't matter on this set, but having Swift Swim can be a nice way to counter opposing Rain Dance teams and Sniper isn't really helpful at all.

Once again, priority attacks hurt Horsea's sweep badly. Having a Pokemon able to take the priority attacks is a must. Bronzor is a nice way of dealing with priority attacks. Paras can come in on Agility or Surf and put Horsea to sleep with Spore or attack with Seed Bomb, although it takes considerable damage from Ice Beam. Using Hoothoot is a great way to counter Paras, since it resists both of Paras' attacks and is immune to Spore because of its ability, Insomnia. Munchlax can take a couple of Surfs and hurt Horsea severely with Return. Bronzor is a good switch into Muchlax. Misdreavus with Will-O-Wisp can lure in Munchlax and burn it. Once again, Wynaut can trap Croagunk, kill it, and Encore other moves to let Horsea get an Agility off.

Starting Rain Dance early in the game can help Horsea sweep without risking damage while trying to set up rain. Meowth and Voltorb are two great leads that can set up Rain Dance most of the time with their amazing Speed. Setting up Stealth Rock always helps, since it breaks Focus Sash. Stealth Rock can also take a chunk of damage out of Snover, who can be a pain for Horsea and Rain Dance teams in general.

For the Rain Dance set, having a different Swift Swimmer switch in before Horsea can lure in its counters, like Croagunk, Chinchou, and Snover, and then heavily damage them. Buizel, Goldeen, and Omanyte can do this effectively. Omanyte with Chople Berry lures out Croagunk, survives its Vacuum Wave with Chople Berry, and returns with an OHKO against Croagunk via Earth Power. Omanyte can also risk a speed tie with Snover and try to KO it with Ancient Power.

Paras has great synergy with Horsea, since it can take Grass- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Horsea easily. Paras works especially well with the Rain Dance Sweeper set, since Paras will restore HP thanks to Dry Skin. Paras can also spread sleep status, which can create turns for Horsea to use Agility or Rain Dance. Bronzor can also take priority attacks aimed at Horsea from Pokemon like Croagunk, and can deal with Snover, who counters all of Horsea's sets perfectly. As mentioned previously, Bronzor can also set up dual screens, which Horsea loves. Wynaut can trap Croagunk and other Pokemon and allow Horsea to set up on them.

On the Agility and Rain Dance Sweeper sets, Hidden Power Ground is an option to OHKO Croagunk on the switch in. You can use Damp Rock on those sets to help keep Rain Dance active longer, but having more power with Life Orb or restoring HP with Oran Berry are usually better options.

The EVs for the Rain Dance Sweeper and Agility sets are fairly straightforward. Max Speed Horsea with a Timid nature allows you to reach 32 Speed under the rain or with an Agility boost, letting you outpace all Scarfed Pokemon. 200 Special Attack EVs maximizes Special Attack. The extra EVs are put into Defense and Special Defense instead of HP, because with minimal HP investment, Horsea reaches 19 HP, a Life Orb number.

Horsea is a good option for a special sweeper in a Rain Dance team. It has the second highest Special Attack among everything with the Swift Swim ability. Mantyke is often said to outclass Horsea, but this is partially wrong. Horsea has better Speed, Special Attack, and Defense than Mantyke. The Speed is the key factor that differs Mantyke and Horsea. Horsea reaches 32 Speed in the rain or after an Agility, which allows it to outpace all Choice Scarf users, something that Mantyke can't do.

Most of the counters for Horsea depend on the Hidden Power it's using. Croagunk is a excellent counter for Horsea; it can switch into Horsea's STAB Hydro Pump easily because of its ability, Dry Skin, and can use a combination of Fake Out and Vacuum Wave to knock it out. Croagunk only fears Horsea if it is using Hidden Power Ground. Mantyke is a good counter to Horsea if it is not using Hidden Power Electric. Chinchou walls Horsea if it's using Hidden Power Electric. Snover can counter the Rain Dance set by stopping the rain, outpacing Horsea, and OHKOing it with a Grass-type move.

macle · Jan 21, 2010

ok thank you for the checks whistle and xia

eric the espeon · Jan 31, 2010

Did a quick nitpick check, fixed some issues directly.

[21:34] <ete> macle
[21:34] <macle> ete..
[21:34] <macle> is the space gone?
[21:34] <ete> just doing a nitpick direct thing of horsea
[21:34] <macle> k
[21:34] <ete> don't edit for a few mins
[21:35] <macle> k
[21:35] <ete> "you aren't reliaing on rain"
[21:35] <ete> Horrse's
[21:35] <ete> "Mantye"
[21:36] <macle> o
[21:36] <ete> can you add the pokemon to your spellcheck?
[21:36] <ete> :p
[21:36] <macle> ive added a few so far
[21:36] <ete> look in the box
[21:36] <macle> like mantyke
[21:36] <ete> I have a full list
[21:36] <ete> of stuff to add
[21:36] <macle> g
[21:36] <macle> k*
[21:37] <ete> "Hippopottas"
[21:37] <ete> "Muchlax"
[21:37] <macle> yeah

Horsea (Gen 4, LC Analysis)*

macle

sup geodudes

EspyJoel

Espy <3

Black Buddha

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days

TotalPotato

Xia

On porpoise

macle

sup geodudes

Fuzznip

Articanus

little gk

competitive oosos player

macle

sup geodudes

Tayla

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef

iss

let's play bw lc!

macle

sup geodudes

jumpluff

whistle

Xia

On porpoise

macle

sup geodudes

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood

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