I've used a Specs Hydreigon and it hits really hard. But I'd switch Flash Cannon for U-Turn, or one of Surf or Earth Power. But I prefer a Life Orb 3 attacks + Roost over Specs.
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Pokémon Hydreigon
- Thread starter supergoji18
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Yeah, probably Surf is the better option. The only real targets for Earth Power are Heatran and Magnezone, but both are covered by Surf and Flamethrower.
Surf + Fire Blast hits everything Ground hits except for Poison and Electric. And there aren't many threatening pure Poison types around and the most used Electric types in OU resist Ground. The only Electric type I could think of that Earth Power hits hard is Manectric, but he is 1hko'd by Specs Draco Meteor.
I've been messing around with a Substitute Hydreigon and it works surprisingly well. Not only does Hydreigon force a lot of Pokemon out with its threatening STABs and coverage moves, many Pokemon aren't able to break its Subs because of its unique typing and Levitate. For example, Scizor will not dare staying in to U-Turn when a Flamethrower is coming its way, and a defensive Heatran with Lava Plume and Earth Power can't do much of anything to Hydreigon. An Aegislash in Blade forme will almost certainly use Kings Shield on your Hydreigon as you get up a free Sub.
The set I've been using is:
Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
However, what makes this so deadly is that the last 3 moves are interchangeable with a variety of different moves. You could use Charge Beam to gain some free boosts, or throw on Superpower to make Special walls think twice before switching in. You could use Life Orb instead of Lefties and use a Sub/2 Attacks/Roost set.
The set I've been using is:
Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
However, what makes this so deadly is that the last 3 moves are interchangeable with a variety of different moves. You could use Charge Beam to gain some free boosts, or throw on Superpower to make Special walls think twice before switching in. You could use Life Orb instead of Lefties and use a Sub/2 Attacks/Roost set.
This would work well, but these days, hyper voice is everywhere. Plus, it's walled by pretty much any fairy.
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And Galvantula/Volcarona's Bug Buzz too, which Hydreigon hates.
For Volcarona, I think he could replace Earth Power for Surf. With it he could smite the likes of Gliscor, Landorus, Char Y (even though, under the sun, Dragon Pulse might be the better option), Mamoswine, still hit decently Heatran and Tyranitar, and of course, Volcarona.
Problem is Earth power hits Heatran's x4 weakness and that is a much more important hit, the rest you mentioned can already be hit neutrally by STAB in the first place. More importantly it allows Hydregion to MMawile SE which is a pretty big thing.
MMawile is already weak to Flamethrower, which has even more BP.
I see the importance of hitting hard Heatran, but we have to consider that many of them carry Air Baloon, so you have to hit it with something alse on the switch. Flamethrower is a big nope for obvious reasons, while he gives no shit about Dragon Pulse. So supposing he comes into play after Hydreigon killed something, he basically has a free turn do do whatever he wants (and with Spdf investment, which is very common nowadays, he will be able to set up a substitute and keep it on the next turn, so he has TWO turns to just chill out). With Surf you can do much more pressure, especially if Heatran has Speed investment, so you can break the substitute on the same turn he creates it.
I see only advantages to give up Earth Power for Surf. Flame+Earth honestly sounds redundant to me. He becomes the ultimate Steel killer, but then?
I would not run both on one set period especially when Dark being buffed as it is now has more merit being spammed and being able to hit Aegislash for SE with a STAB is much better than Dragon Pulse, so you should be able to hit Heatran prior to his balloon with a neutral stab.
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We're talking about the sub set. I don't see the point of having U Turn on it, and adding Roost would seriously hinder the offensive presence.
About spamming Dark, I agree with you. As I said earlier, I realized that for a choice set Dark Pulse is usually the safest option.
But for this set I'm not sure what's better between this and Dragon Pulse. It's true that dark is more spammable, but I think that dragon fits better with fire and water coverage, considering that dragons resist both. Sure, Dark Pulse kills Aegislash and Gengar, but the former is hit hard by Flamethrower, and the latter is frail anyway.And behind a substitute Hydreigon wins for sure against both (implying Gengar has no Destiny Bond/Focus Sash). And there aren't that many psychic types all around (the most prominent being Alakazam, who's very frail).
About spamming Dark, I agree with you. As I said earlier, I realized that for a choice set Dark Pulse is usually the safest option.
But for this set I'm not sure what's better between this and Dragon Pulse. It's true that dark is more spammable, but I think that dragon fits better with fire and water coverage, considering that dragons resist both. Sure, Dark Pulse kills Aegislash and Gengar, but the former is hit hard by Flamethrower, and the latter is frail anyway.And behind a substitute Hydreigon wins for sure against both (implying Gengar has no Destiny Bond/Focus Sash). And there aren't that many psychic types all around (the most prominent being Alakazam, who's very frail).
Thing is leftovers is still the most popular choice on Heatran based on the usage statistics by a long shot and as I said being able to hit x4 weakness still matters more in the long run, and frankly Heatran users know better than to switch in Heatran on Hydregion given the possibility of Superpower or Focus Blast (which is what I would rather slash over Earthpower over Surf if that is what you aim to hit) as well as Earthpower. Same goes for substitute that barely consitute 4.4% so that these really aren't a problem, especially with the Dark buff giving you just as a reliable means to pop balloons and break subs.
Ok, we agree that Heatran is a bad switch in against Hydreigon, so why worrying so much about Earth Power?
My Heatran too runs lefties, and I would never switch into Hyd if I don't know each exact move he carries. Not only he's got Superpower, but Surf, Earth Power, and even Focus Blast. So me, as a Hydreigon user, would never expect him to switch into my dragon. And as I said, Surf allows to hit hard many many things more than EP. I mean, between fighting moves and Earthquake on other teammates, I don't think that you have to run EP on Hydreigon just to kill Heatran.
My Heatran too runs lefties, and I would never switch into Hyd if I don't know each exact move he carries. Not only he's got Superpower, but Surf, Earth Power, and even Focus Blast. So me, as a Hydreigon user, would never expect him to switch into my dragon. And as I said, Surf allows to hit hard many many things more than EP. I mean, between fighting moves and Earthquake on other teammates, I don't think that you have to run EP on Hydreigon just to kill Heatran.
Hitting him for x4 given that his regular spread is specially defensive matters if you are primarily a special variant, as is the sub set. Sure may seem overkill but without doubt having him dead is what you want.
Yeah, but in this way you're sacrificing a shit tone of coverage for just one singular pokémon. Heatran is common, but even the others I mentioned, probably even more. And it's not a situation like Garchomp VS Togekiss, in which you are quite forced to run Stone Edge/Iron Head otherwise the latter completely counters. Hydreigon has many ways to deal with Heatran (which, again, is just one pokémon), and honestly EP to me seems the worst choice (besides Surf, even Superpower would be a much better choice, covering more stuff like Chansey/Blissey).
Heatran is in a similar situation against Talonflame/Char Y. He sometimes carries Ancient Power just for them. But not only they are two, not one check, but are maybe the most common mons in the tier along with Aegislash.
Heatran is in a similar situation against Talonflame/Char Y. He sometimes carries Ancient Power just for them. But not only they are two, not one check, but are maybe the most common mons in the tier along with Aegislash.
Both good points. But hey, that's what the rest of the team's for right? Putting it with something like a Heatran would make a good pair.
Aegislash I feel is a better pairing. They cover each other quite well.
Good point on your side too, but the ability of pretty much any fairy to force hydreigon out of the field sort of makes hydreigon kind of ehhh...
Toxic stall, I guess, or hit with HP ice.
But I repeat: unless you know for sure every move Hydreigon has, I don't think that Heatran has any bussiness in staying.
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Didn't even think of him, Aegislash is also an excellent partner.
Yeah, that's true. But when I'm using the set I won't reveal Substitute until after their Fairy is gone, if they have one.
How do you guys think this would do on UU, with less fairies roaming around and stuff?
I think he would do very fine. Last gen Hydreigon was solid OU material, and fairies aside I think he gets the job done even today. So I assume that in lower tiers he would be even stronger (but I don't play UU, so, yeah, I'm just assuming).
When I used my boy Hydrei in OU (as he was being suspected), he continued to hold his own just like he did in the days of BW. He's still amazing at what he does.
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