I Rest In Peace; You Rest In Pieces [OU RMT]

[CrossHair-a]

Hello, everyone. I'm CrossHair-a, and obviously, I'm a Heracross fan. I'm not an ignorant one, I see Heracross with a neutral competitive mindset and I can do no less than agree his tier movement to UU. This movement just allows me to say, "Hey. I just sweeped your OU team with a UU sweeper. Lol." and enjoy it. Essentially, this team is built around Heracross but there's always that crucial misprediction or missed KO, which then stops all attempts at sweeping. It's not only built around Heracross, but it's also built around having a back-up plan for the late-game, where things get very hairy. ​

A Quick Glance:​

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Allow me to rant a bit about Heracross and why I think he's so great. First off, his typing is exceptional for an offensive pokemon. Not only so, he can utilize this typing as an offense and a solid defense. Thanks to his Bug-typing, he gets the incredible Physical Bug-type STAB Megahorn, which claims to be the greatest Bug-type move in the game, standing tall at 120 Base Power and no secondary effects. No secondary effects is a good thing when you look at his secondary typing: Fighting. Thanks to this type, it cancels out his Stealth Rock weakness he would otherwise have if he'd only been Bug-typed. That in itself is what makes Heracross an exceptional Bug-type. Heracross, Scizor, Forretress, and Wormadam-G, are the only Bug-type pokemon with neutrality to Stealth Rock. This gives him a massive advantage in switching in, as he is not limited to four or five switches unlike Pinsir. Another ridiculous advantage is his second STAB move: Close Combat. Another 120 Base Power move, this, along with Megahorn, have excellent coverage within themselves, and break through stall like a hot knife through butter. I should neglect saying they are 120 BP moves, because with a STAB factor, in reality, they are 180 Base Power moves. In OU, Heracross' secondary typing has far more pros to cons. It cancels out weaknesses, and very critical ones at that, but adds on 2 more weaknesses that create a 400% weakness to Flying and a 200% weakness to Psychic. Now, let's be realistic: Flying and Psychic in OU? When there's Steels like Jirachi, Metagross, and Heatran on almost every team? The only pokemon viable to use Flying- or Psychic-type moves are Cresselia, Azelf, Gliscor, and Gyarados. Heracross can rip through the first two with Megahorn no problem, while Gliscor and Gyarados offer trouble, but are very uncommon with their respective Flying-type moves. His only real weakness is Fire, but he's had that weakness before his secondary typing kicked in; so no worries there. ​

Heracross definitely meets every characteristic to break stall. He can set up on walls and stallers and take them out. With an SD under his horn, Heracross can OHKO perhaps every single wall in the game with his two STABs alone (bar Flying-types =| ). His last attack is used to make sure that he gains perfect coverage; otherwise Gliscor gets to counter another slow sweeper along with Lucario. Ultimately, this is not exactly what I'm aiming for, I'm merely giving you guys Heracross's selling points.​

Choosing the right set for Heracross wasn't a hard job once I got the team going. I kept looking and thinking: Not enough speed, but has pretty decent defenses for a sweeper; his typing has only Fire as its most common weakness in OU (Aerial Ace Gliscor doesn't exist, silly). I won't spoil anymore. ​

DISCLAIMER: By no means am I insisting, nor implying that I think Heracross is OU. His usage stats do not lie and I cannot change that (well, I could, but only marginally). I do use him in OU with this team and I have built the team around him, but I'm not whining that he gets dropped. I encourage it in fact; his drop only allows me to use him in all metagames: Ubers, OU, and UU; this only gives Heracross more options and play to his pros where he sees fit. So, if you are one who believes Heracross should stay OU, consider the fact that you can now use him in 3 competitive metagames! Don't fear it, Embrace it!​

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Team Building Process​

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Quite obvious, I started off with Heracross. The team had to be revolved around taking out counters and threats to him, but the set I was still unsure what to start with. Of course I wanted him to sweep, but he has many sets for that as well (Swords Dance, SubSalac, ReversalCross, Bulk Up, etc.) I couldn't decide so hastily at this point in time. ​

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Reading the analyses, Smogon suggests Scizor, and for good reasons I could see from miles away. It doesn't take a genius to see how well the two pair, though they don't really carry synergy, their roles contrast, and they do not share counters; conversely, they check each other's counters and can help each other set up and find an opening without sacrificing. A deadly pair they are, but there's someone missing...​

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Of course it was Bulky Gyarados. I have seen Gyarados being on my teams more and more, and with a specially-defensive Scizor, they synergize quite well. They are a great pair, breaking stall like a flaming knife through margarine (do you believe it's not butter?). An effective pair they are, and an effective pair Scizor and Heracross make. Gyarados and Heracross also pair very well. Gyarados' Intimidate helps Heracross set up on the likes of opposing Gyarados, Scizors and others; while Heracross can open holes with Megahorn, which takes out walls such as Uxie, Cresselia; and tanks such as Tyranitar, Metagross, and others. Now it looks like the team is going bulky: Specially Defensive Scizor, Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados, at this point I knew that Bulk Up + ResTalk would be my Heracross set, having a reliable recovery move and literally Bulky-ing Up was too great to pass up and try out for myself. It's time to pick my lead.​

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I had actually considered other leads, but none of them seemed worthy of testing just by looking at the team. Swampert would look nice, but he has little utility outside of phazing and Toxic, and he just loses to faster leads (Roserade, Aerodactyl, Azelf to name a few among a huge amount). Besides, Gyarados and Scizor already force many switches, so we've got passive phazing...if that's possible...So, Jirachi seemed fitting for a lead, with a bunch of resistances and access to Trick to cripple walls--more specifically, opposing leads--and Stealth Rock as well as two nice attacks off of base 100 Attack *catches breath*...is too good to pass up. Two more slots open, but who to fill the void?​

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Of the two glues, Gliscor came to my mind first. With the ability to break stall, stall by himself, counter common physical threats to Heracross, and the ability to scout...it's FAR too good to overlook. Grab 'n' go! The analyses also agree with me, saying Gliscor could make an excellent partner to Heracross, getting rid of Lucario and Tentacruel, but losing to Empoleon. Oh, of course I went with the defensive set, because without it Gliscor would be a little more than useless...And I just looked it over, I just needed a straight-up counter to speed-boosting sweepers and Special sweepers in general. ​

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Choice Scarf Latias was the best answer. Picking off Gyarados, Salamence, Gliscor, Starmie, and many other powerful threats, Scarf Latias definitely deserves a spot on this team. If there's a Gyarados or Salamence that has set up, Latias will be there. If there is a Gliscor Taunting Heracross, Latias will be there. If there is a Starmie just ripping through the team, Latias will be there. Latias is just so diverse; as expected from a legendary pokemon. Latias definitely excels in checking a vast plethora of pokemon. This blesses the entire team, but it can also curse it, as one bad move (i.e. over/misprediction) can cost me an excellent revenge killer and possibly the game.​

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Under Thine Microscope:​

Mr. Lead

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Serene Grace
Jolly
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
~Stealth Rock
~Iron Head
~Wish
~Trick​

A very simple, standard, but highly effective lead. Jirachi gets up Stealth Rock quite reliably, though it isn't mandatory that he does. Like any sweeper, Stealth Rock only makes their job easier, but by no means, in this case, is it crucial in setting them down. The most important thing at this point is to cripple something. Not many things in OU like a Choice Scarf, especially not walls or Boosting/Bulky sweepers such as Salamence, Scizor, or Gyarados. The main reason why I chose this specific set is to ensure something useful happens: Stealth Rock, or someone who doesn't have a Scarf gets one, or even both! The set also maintains good coverage with just two attacking moves. I changed Thunderpunch to Wish for the third slot in order to give this team some much needed Wish support. Latias, in particular, switches in to revenge quite a number of things, ranging from SubPetaya Empoleon with an Agility boost to Dragon Dance Salamence with a DD boost, and she ill be losing health because of Stealth Rock and my lack of a spinner. Wish support remedies this problem at the cost of a few turns to get it done. Any team benefits greatly from Wish support, this team is no different. Iron Head's haxiness can prevent Stealth Rock from ever being put up by the opponent, making it much more easier to switch for my team. Anti-Leads can't really Anti-Lead this Jirachi, which is another big plus. Even if the Scarf stays on Jirachi and he switches out, that's fine, he can just come in on some Choiced loser like Scizor and Stealth Rock. After that, it's a matter of using Jirachi as a puppet/shield and Tricking where appropriate.​

I went for bulk rather than brawn in this particular guy. Because he's mostly utility, I don't want clean OHKOs or 2HKOs. 252 HP EVs helps in this aspect. 252 Spe is mandatory along with Jolly to tie with other Scarf'd 100s and outspeed anything below that. With the Scarf off, outspeeding pokes like Jolly Lucario and Jolly Gliscor is also greatly appreciated. If I tricked the Scarf directly TO those pokes, even better! They kill Jirachi with Close Combat or Earthquake, Gyarados gets a free set up. I apologize, but I don't like analyzing how this guy does vs. the top leads, because in a match anything can happen at any time. They can switch, predict my predicting the switch, Taunt when I use Trick, set up Stealth rock as I switch, and even who they or I switch to is a big question that cannot be answered even had I put up analyses on how Jirachi fares vs. the top leads in OU. Besides, I'm sure someone else has already done that on their RMT. Enough of this; onto...​

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Deadly Duo #1​

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Intimidate
Adamant
156 HP / 44 Atk / 96 Def / 28 SpD / 184 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Waterfall
~Return
~Taunt​

Also knows as primary switch-in from Jirachi. Gyarados is a staple on many teams in today's metagame, and reasons are vast and plenty. He finds a place on any team, really, but the big question that is begged of his placement on a team is: Which set? His movepool is great, his stats and ability fit perfectly together, he can fit many roles, and perform better than other thanks to his own unique typing (which is shared with Seagull and Pelliper). The big question really does make a big difference; it seriously affects your entire team. In my case, I went with Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados. He fits better on my team for 3 main reasons.​

Reason 1: He synergizes very, very well with Jirachi. He can switch in on LeadPerts, Jirachi's biggest enemy, and set up no problem, all the while stopping any type of support options with Taunt. This is a tremendous help for my team. If I predict correctly that Swampert will Surf, Ice Beam, or Earthquake Jirachi because the Swampert expects a Scarf, that attack will be wasted, and Taunt will shut down any attempts at setting up Stealth Rock, Cursing, or Toxic. He can do much the same thing with many other leads as well, but through different prediction and method.​

Reason 2: Being the initial safe-switch for Jirachi, he should definitely remain bulky, but also offensive enough to get rid of Heracross counters and physical walls (namely, Skarmory) so Heracross can rip through what's left. Gyarados rips the flesh off, Heracross breaks the bones.​

Reason 3: He's so freaking good on his own. Gyarados at +2 speed is a very menacing force even early-game. If they don't have an incredibly fast Scarfer like Starmie or Alakazam, he's more or less safe from harm and can wreak havoc on the team, not even letting Heracross get one kill, let alone switch in. This ties in with his synergies, as he synergizes well not only with Jirachi, but with Scizor and Heracross as well, though the synergy isn't mutual in their cases. This reason ties in with reason #1, as he can set up early game and torture the opponent with +2 Waterfalls and Returns.​

The EVs are kinda messy, but they're nothing less to standard. I just felt like having some more Special Bulk, as he has Initmidate, so his physical bulk is good enough as is. Waterfall and Return retain perfect coverage alongside each other. I chose Return instead of Bounce because Bounce is a mixed blessing on this part. 30% paralysis is nice, as well as a nice secondary physical STAB, but two turns allows the opponent to a) Set up; b) Switch; or c) More Leftovers Recovery or an Instant Recovery move in itself. Return also has a nice 102 Base Power, still capable of hitting Celebi, Gyarados' biggest problem, quite hard after a boost or two. With no doubt, Gyarados has done formidably on this team; it's very hard to find a replacement for him.​

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Deadly Duo #2​

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Scizor @ Leftovers
Technician
Adamant
252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SpD
~Swords Dance
~Bullet Punch
~Brick Break
~Roost​

Scizor, the biggest Bug in OU in two ways. The fact that he's a Bug=type; and the synonym of "pest". Along with Gyarados, this form of Scizor pairs quite well; but not perfectly. With Swords Dance, Scizor fires what I like to call, Super Bullet Punch; a Bullet Punch at +2. That kind of Bullet Punch rips so many things to shreds, and Brick Break breaks whatever it cannot, which is a small void to fill. And so, what else is there to say about Scizor? Well, like Gyarados, the set does matter a lot and I have been thinking of going back to the stupi--I mean--standard, of course I said standard CB set. The only thing I wouldn't like about the CB set is then I have two revenge killers and CB Scizor is set up bait for soo many things once locked into any move nowadays because the set is so obvious and whatever I'm locked into will basically allow them to set up unless they have 2 or 3 pokemon neutral to Bullet Punch and those exact pokemon are the only ones left. Yeah, not happening there, buddy. This set is more or less designed to get rid of that; and with Iron Plate, to be bait for just that. I chose Leftovers between the two, because it seems that Iron Plate doesn't seem to work with the given EVs. Max Attack and Iron Plate can more or less replicate CB Bullet Punch, whereas 80 Atk doesn't do so; so I opted for Leftovers. This set is incredible vs. Scizor's greatest nemises. If Magnezone walks by and tries to start a rape scene, Scizor will grab his sword, dance with it, and rip that ****er in half with Brick Break. If he doesn't carry Hidden Power Fire, Scizor can actually take a few Thunderbolts with the given EVs, allowing potential to set up. But where nemises are taken care of, new enemies arrive to the fray, threatening Scizor only by their presence. Scizor has no way of getting through Stall-breaker Gliscor. Gliscor can stall Scizor out easily, preventing Scizor to recover and forcing an attack, there he can Roost off the attack and switch to someone who can easily take care of Scizor. ​

Surprisingly, Scizor works greatly with Heracross. Though it may seem redundant to have two physical attackers of the same type, what Scizor does best is what Heracross could never do; and vice versa. I would go a little more in depth, but I'll leave that for when I tell you Heracross' set. All I can say for now is that Scizor has not been dissapointing, his bulk and brawn work very well together, and with Gyarados by his side, he has no problem getting rid of his counters and checks to come in and tear off some more flesh.​

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The First Glue​

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Latias @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
~Draco Meteor
~Surf
~Thunderbolt
~Trick​

Hooray for more Trickery! Latias really is a good glue for the team; but far from superglue, as one mistrick or one failpulse/failsurf/failbolt can allow a threat to set up. With her, it's a hit or miss kinda thing. She does the job or doesn't do the job; she does the job, but it ain't worth it as shown in the next turn; she doesn't do the job...*bee-- Anyway, I still like Latias for the fact that she retains perfect coverage quite easily, and is rarely walled. Whatever wall happens to walk by usually gets Trick'd if my predictions are correct. Ouf, I've been so negative so far, I believe it's time to say what's so great about her. Latias is my best answer do a pre-boosted Salamence. Jolly or not, Salamence gets a Draco Meteor to the face, which OHKOs without any prior damage. She also counters non-Ice Fang DD Gyarados, and checks Ice Fangers; OHKOing any of them with Thunderbolt or Draco Meteor (for insurance against Ground and Electivire switch-ins). Latias loves walking in on some other special monsters, too. Porygon-Z is one, Alakazam is another, Gengar is one more, and Empoleon is there too. Many more special boosting pokemon fall to Scarf Latias, either being crippled by a Trick, or just killed instantly. Both of those things help Heracross greatly, as there are quite a few things out there that can hit him hard; virutally all of which Latias can defeat with great ease. However, as I had mentioned before, one wrong move can let one fearsome pokemon flay my team and leave the bones open to snap, crackle, and ultimately pop. Cheer up, though! This isn't usually the case, luckily! The things that switch in perfectly safely to all those 3 moves are walls. Walls that don't boost (bar CursePert and friends). There's nothing really bad to fear, because Heracross loves walls! And you'll see why he does especially and why Latias works so well in his respective moveset description, which comes right after...​

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The Second Glue​

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Gliscor @ Leftovers
Sand Veil
Jolly
252 HP / 24 Def / 232 Spe
~Earthquake
~Taunt
~Toxic
~Roost​

The sweep-stopper and wall-breaker. Man, this team breaks walls wayy too much. Can we say anti-stall? Haha! Anyways, the set is quite standard, and quite effective. Gliscor is an impressive partner of Heracross, and yes, a very strong glue indeed. Being a wall and wall-breaker is something all pokemon wish to achieve, and Gliscor may well be the only one to do so (effectively) outside of Ubers. Nothing much to explain here. Earthquake is the 100/100 Base Power/Accuracy move that is loved by everyone, and Gliscor gains a STAB boost, making it 150/100. Very nice; except for the fact that many pokemon in OU are immune to it, including Gliscor himself. Luckily, those who are not immune to it are usually hit neutrally or super-effectively, so it evens out to an extent. Used over Aerial Ace because...is there really any debate for why I should? Taunt is what I meant by wall-breaking. Taunt rids any attempts at status, any (Toxic) Spikes, and any wall. Taunt is usually my first choice as soon as I switch into something. If I do not know the set, it is mandatory that I Taunt; even if I sacrifice Gliscor for it. Again, what it disables is very useful. Toxic has been suggested over U-Turn because it then allows Gliscor to come in on physical sweepers and walls and Toxic stall them. This gives a great advantage, as it allows me to status, what would otherwise be, big threats to the team, wearing them down gradually. Again, this emphasizes Gliscor's ability to wall and wall-break; but now it adds on stall and stall-break. Roost is just unquestionable, no Gliscor goes without it. Lowering its 4x Ice weakness down to 2x (albeit, gaining a 2x Grass weakness, but...) and healing 50% HP. Excellent, no? EVs are just the pure standard: Enough speed to outrun base 90s with a positive nature and anything below (goes without saying, but I like saying it to make you people read longer. Speaking of which, why are you reading this part? You should stop reading this at this point, it gets pointless right about here.), as well as outrunning other Gliscors running 4 more EVs to outrun the standard Gliscor, max out HP, and dump the rest in Defense. ​

Now, I know you're wondering "You've got a very nice bulky Gyarados who can use the Taunt time to set up, why use another Taunter who can't use the time well?" The answer lies in this: Gyarados is my initial switch-in from Jirachi; I told you, correct? Well, if this is the case, Gyarados is revealed early-game and usually dies mid-game after he's sufficiently weakened the team with his own Taunt and set-up. I do all in my power to keep Gliscor from being sent out mid-game; I save him for late-game, when things, as I said long ago, get very hairy. His presence alone tells their hidden Lucario to not even try switching in, even when Gliscor isn't there. During late-game, Gliscor's Taunt helps in many ways. He Taunts a physical attacker like Snorlax, dissallowing set up to occur, and forces him to attack or switch. That's really ALL it needs to do. If they attack, Gliscor can absorb the hit and, most of the time, Roost off the damage. I believe I have to emphasize this, as there will probably be many responses saying that I do not need Taunt or Gliscor altogether. I'm not saying I will automatically disagree with you on hat respect, I'm always open to suggestion, but I'm emphasizing how effective it is. ​

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The Lone Warrior​

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Heracross @ Leftovers
Guts
Careful
252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD
~Megahorn
~Bulk Up
~Rest
~Sleep Talk​

Heracross has respectable defensive stats which are often overshadowed by its remarkable offensive potential, yet Heracross can trade some of its immediate firepower for staying power.

Bulk Up is far less used as a boosting option since Heracross may appear to lack the bulk required to be truly effective, and many reject it in favor of Swords Dance or a Choice item. Although Bulk Up Heracross is not as immediately threatening as the Sword Dance or Choice Band varieties, in the proper hands it can be a powerful sweeper that is difficult to stop.​

Just because Heracross is one the greatest wall-breakers there is, doesn't mean he can't be an incredible tank himself. Sure, I was bragging about Heracross' wall-breaking capabilities and his overall offensive prowess. But Defensive bases of 80/75/95 and access to Bulk Up CANNOT be ignored. With 216 SpD EVs and a Careful nature, Heracross hits 308 Special Defense. Looks sorta pathetic for the investment, but it is well worth it, as you'll see in the calcs. Bulk Up will then boost his defense to significant levels, even immense levels, along with his already gargantuan attack stat into astronomical levels. Heracross loves the boosts he gets to his defensesand the ability to do 3 great things with ResTalk:​

Great Thing #1: Rest is the instant recovery move that heals 100% health and gets rid of status because it induces Sleep status. This lets him take damage-inducing status such as Burn, Toxic, and Poison and get rid of it. Even before Rest, he has Guts acivated, letting him kill something, then Rest, restarting the cycle. Status is nothing to the great Heracross.​

Great Thing #2: Because of Rest, he can activate Guts himself! This means he can place himself at +7!! +8 if Tricked a Choice Band. Ridiculous? Hell yea! ​

Great Thing #3: Because he has high defenses and useful resistances when boosted already, having Rest really pisses people off. Their bulky water's Surf only scratch Heracross, while they get a Megahorn to the gut or another boost to their demise. Their walls will start rethinking their strategy when they see that Heracross can eat up anything they've got. When at +3, he can even take Gyarados' boosted Bounces and Gliscor's Aerial Ace.​

So. We've got the excellence of Rest. Well, what the heck can we do for 2 turns!? Simple, we'll start stabbing people with our horns and working out at the gym while we're asleep. Because it makes perfect sense to. Sleep Talk allows Heracross to not be totally useless during those 2 turns. Thankfully, with these EVs and after 1 or 2 boosts, it becomes quite difficult for non-sweeping pokemon to even 2HKO Heracross on both sides of the spectrum (with super-effective attacks, of course), which allows Heracross to keep resting and attacking/boosting. ​

Because of having Bulk Up, Rest, and Sleep Talk, the final move is the attack. In Heracross' case, it's an absolute no-brainer. Megahorn is the only choice. The highest damaging Bug-type move, gaining STAB, and having no negative (nor positive) side effects makes Megahorn the prime contender for Heracross. Megahorn is on every single set for those reasons. On this set, it's quite obvious as to why you wouldn't want to use his secondary STAB move: Close Combat. It lowers our defenses if it hits when Heracross is trying to be the bulkiest of tanks. Doesn't make sense as to why you'd want to use it. Stone Edge also isn't such a great move, it loses to almost every steel and the accuracy is wayy too shaky for a defensive set. Ultimately, and obviously, there is absolutely no reason for any Heracross set not to have Megahorn (unless that Heracross isn't at the level needed to learn Megahorn...)​

This set is capable of stopping physical tanks and physical sweepers cold in their tracks. Prime examples being Lucario, Metagross, SD Venusaur, Bulky Waters, and others. Essentially, anything without a super-effective attack on Heracross will have a hard time breaking through. Even Lucario, who gets hit .25x damage from STAB Megahorn takes a pretty big hit from it nonetheless, while his Extremespeeds are rendered near useless. Heracross can set up alongside these sweepers, even. His Bulk Ups and resistances allow him to sponge their physical attacks and retaliate with great might. ​

Though I like addressing Heracross as The Lone Warrior, this is far from the truth. Heracross can't sweep an entire team first thing, no help whatsoever. Like all sweepers, the sweepers ability to 6-0 the opponent all depends on his or her team. Although, Infernape kinda ignores that, but...the general idea is that without his teammates, Heracross couldn't really do much. Think of it this way: I'm at +3, +3 with Heracross, 100%, no status, I kill the first victim. Gliscor is switched in and Taunts me. I can't use Bulk Up, Rest, nor Sleep Talk after the taunt. What does that mean? It means their Gyarados I never knew they had can set up and kill Heracross no problem. All this could have been prevented had Latias Tbolted Gyarados and got it overwith. Now, this scenario is if I didn't have Latias. See? She is quite important even if I put her down for it. The point is, Heracross is The Lone Warrior to me, but he never separates himself from his pack. Heracross is not a wolf, take note.​

Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross definitely has a lot of things going for it. The set by itself can set up on a wall and almost guarantee a kill if played correctly. From my experience with this (which, might I add, is vast), I can say that the key to success is knowing your opponent's set and exploiting it. In other words: don't kill them off just yet. Of course, you've got nothing to worry about on those Bulky Waters, but what about the sweepers I mentioned earlier? Lucario, Metagross, and SD Venusaur. Lucario...obvious is obvious. Swords Dance, Close Combat, Extremespeed, filler move i.e. Crunch or Ice Punch. Metagross is one of those guys that you must understand. Meteor Mash definitely dents Heracross and is a staple on all Metagross sets, along with Earthquake. Ahh, but good switching a prediction solves this and allows Heracross to set up anyways. Metagross is almost always Adamant with like 8-32 Spe EVs. Even this Heracross outspeeds such, and because of that key, Heracross can switch in on a predicted Earthquake or Ice/Thunder Punch and Bulk Up while the poor Metagross keeps trying to Mash meteors. SD Venusaur is easily taken care of. I've only faced him once, and I knew Venusaur did not have any super-effective attack on Heracross. Even a +2 Power Whip on +1 Defense Heracross failed to knock him, The Lone Warrior, down. So he continued setting up, realizing he hadn't a chance at only a +1 advantage, and there he was at a +2 advantage; him at +4, Heracross at +2. Fascinatingly enough, Heracross, even after taking the initial hit and Leftovers recovery, he still was not KO'd. At that point I used Rest and babbled in bed and the battle was over as the war raged on.​

Let's emphasize how well Heracross fares defensively as opposed to offensively with Calcs. Bulky Water STABs Calcs:​

364 HP / 186 Def / 308 SpD​

Boosting his defense one stage:​

364 HP / 279 Def / 308 SpD​

Let's not forget his 444 Attack Stat at this point. Just after one boost, Heracross is 2HKOd by Defensive Gliscor's Aerial Ace. That's a 4x weakness from a 90 BP move (factoring STAB). Let's look at Bulky Water's Surfs/Waterfalls:​

Suicune:​

4 SpA Bold Suicune Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 73 - 96; Never a 3HKO​

252 SpA Timid Suicune Surf (LO Boost) vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 121 - 144; Never a 2HKO​

4 SpA Bold Suicune Surf and +1 vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 109 - 129; Never a 2HKO​

Swampert:​

4 Atk Relaxed Swampert Waterfall vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross at +1: 84 - 100; Never a 3HKO​

0 Atk Relaxed Swampert Waterfall at +1 vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross at +1: 127 - 150; Never a 2HKO​

Vaporeon:​

0 SpA Bold Vaporeon Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 85 - 102; Never a 3HKO​

252 SpA Modest Vaporeon Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 117 - 138; Never a 2HKO​

Empoleon:​

252 SpA Modest Empoleon Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 118 - 139; Never a 2HKO​

252 SpA Modest Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 148 - 175; Never a 2HKO​

Tentacruel:​

0 SpA Calm Tentacruel Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 66 - 78; Never a 4HKO​

252 Atk Adamant Tentacruel Waterfall at +2 (LO Boosted) vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross at +1: 102 - 120; Never a 3HKO​

Starmie:​

252 SpA Timid Starmie Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 100 - 118; Never a 3HKO​

252 SpA Timid Starmie Hydro Pump vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 126 - 148; Never a 2HKO​

Too many selling points and too many giant walls of text; I will end my analysis here, as I find myself praising far too much, and not even displaying an ounce of modesty for The Lone Warrior. My apologies.​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Threat List:​

NOTE: ALL SCENARIOS USED IN THE THREAT LIST ANALYSIS ARE IF MY POKEMON A SWITCHES INTO THEIR POKEMON B; THIS ENSURES A SOLID ANSWER AND NO LOLLYGAGGING WITH THEIR POKEMON B SWITCHING INTO MY POKEMON A. THIS ENSURES WHETHER THEY ARE A THREAT OR NOT, AND ALMOST ALL OF THESE ARE FROM EXPERIENCE. Unless otherwise stated.​

Black means they are no problem under any standard circumstances.
Orange means they are a mild threat or are a big threat under demanding circumstances.
Red means they are a big threat under easily reachable circumstances, or are a threat under pretty much any circumstance.​

OFFENSIVE THREAT LIST
Azelf:
-Lead - Trick automatically. Since I get Focus Sash, it doesn't matter if they Fire Blast or not, Gyarados can switch in and set up. If they SR on the Trick, pull out Gyarados. If they Taunt, use Iron Head on the switch. If they Explode...they should leave the game.
-Nasty Plotter - Latias with Draco Meteor, Jirachi can Trick him on the Nasty Plot.
Breloom:
-SporePuncher - Heracross absorbs the Spore, switch to Gyarados for the Intimidate. From there on Heracross can switch in on a -1 Focus Punch or Stone Edge and Bulk Up, rendering him essentially useless.
-SubSeeder - Heracross absorb Spore, Gyarados for Intimidate and keep Gyarados in now that he doesn't preset Stone Edge, as Heracross loses to Leech Seed and unpredictible sleep turns.
-Swords Dance - Heracross beats both Toxic Orb and Life Orb variants.
Celebi:
-Life Orb - Latias resists all attacks and OHKOs with Draco Meteor. Heracross can set up and outstall LO recoil if I want to, or OHKO with Megahorn.
-Choice Scarf - Same as above but with easier prediction.
-Offensive CM - Latias can come in on the boost and OHKO with Draco Meteor. Heracross can come in if Latias isn't in good condition.
Electivire:
-MixVire - Heracross can take a Thunderbolt and a Flamethrower (maybe 2 Flamethrowers??) and hit his pitiful base 67 Defense hard with Megahorn; doesn't matter if he nabs a Motor Drive boost or not. Latias can also come in if Megahorn misses and Heracross is in bad shape.
-PhysVire - Heracross has an easier time with this guy due to Bulk Up boosting his defense.
Empoleon:
-Agility + SubPetaya - Latias can come in and outspeed Empoleon even after Agility and hit it with Thunderbolt. Gyarados can Taunt to prevent Subs from getting up, preventing Petaya activation for Latias.
-Agility + 3 Attacks - Same as above but less prediction.
Flygon:
-Choice Scarf - My initial switch-in is Gyarados, because of his Intimidate he can make Flygon do pitiful damage with his choiced attack.
-Choice Band - It's best if Gyarados comes in on Earthquake or Fire Blast/Fire Punch for this, because Stone Edge with SR hurts him a lot.
Gengar:
-Standard - Scizor just forces him out, which allows set up, or I could just 2HKO with Bullet Punch. If Scizor's in danger of being KOd by Focus Blast, bring in Latias and OHKO with Draco Meteor or Surf.
-MYSTICgar - Scizor Swords Dance on the Protect and OHKO with Bullet Punch.
-SubGar - If, for whatever reason, he gets a sub up, Heracross can take a couple Shadow Balls and hit Gengar's pitiful defense with Megahorn, unboosted.
-SubPunch - No real difference than above.
Gliscor:
-Lead - Trick rapes the guy.
-Swords Dance - Gliscor doesn't mind boosted hits and can come in for the Toxic stall. Latias can come into a predicted Earthquake and OHKO with Surf or Draco Meteor. Heracross can boost alongside him and beat him if he doesn't carry Aerial Ace.
Gyarados:
-Bulky Dragon Dance - Latias is my best bet with Thunderbolt for the OHKO, coming in on the set up.
-Offensive Dragon Dance - Same as above.
-Choice Band - You're kidding, right?
Heatran:
-Lead - Stealth Rock and gtfo.
-Choice Scarf - This guy guarantees 1 kill, but can be handled by Latias and Gyarados together.
-Choice Specs - Dear god this guy can tear everything to shreds. Nuff said.
-LOTran - It's mostly up to Gyarados here, as they usually carry Dragon Pulse.
Heracross:
-Choice Scarf - All I know is that Latias should never come in. Gyarados and Heracross both easily handle this guy's attacks.
-Choice Band - Same as above.
-Swords Dance - If it doesn't carry Stone Edge, same as above. If it does, Heracross can Bulk Up ftw.
-ReversalCross / SubSalac - Gliscor is better here, restricting set up and Subs with Taunt and allowing Heracross to get a boost or 2 before he does. Gliscor could even Toxic stall and unboosted Heracross, as Guts Megahorn will not 2HKO.
Infernape:
-Lead - Trick to lock the Ape in on Fake Out or whatever move he's used before Jirachi. Jirachi is not OHKO'd by Fire Blast.
-Nasty Plot MixApe - Latias for the outspeed and OHKO after the Nasty Plot.
-Specially Based MixApe - Latias can come in on anything (including HP Ice) and score a KO.
-Physcially based MixApe - Since this guy is basically a ScarfApe, tricking a Scarf isn't a great idea. Instead, Latias should be careful as to what to switch in to; Fire Blast is hopefully what she switches in on and OHKO with Surf / Draco Meteor.
Jirachi:
-Choice Scarf - As a lead, I would just Stealth Rock as they do. As a revenge killer, Heracross can take it head on.
-SubCM - Gliscor can come in on the sub and Taunt it, preventing CMs and doing hefty damage with Earthquake. Scizor also stands a good chance.
-Superachi! - Gliscor can come in on the CM and hit it hard with Earthquake. Scizor can also take on Thunderbolt variants (no HP fire) quite well.
-Physical Mix - Heracross can take this guy head on, not even fearing Fire Punch. Those who do not run Thunderbolt are also dealt with by Gyarados, as Intimidate makes his physical attacks pitiful.
Kingdra:
-Dragon Dance - Latias come in on the DD and OHKO.
-Double Dance - Heracross is my best bet here, boosting alongside Kingdra. Proper prediction is key to winning here; attacking during his Rain set up turns, Bulk Up when he DDs, etc;
-Dragon Dance + Sub - Same as above, essentially: proper prediction is key to winning without having anyone die.
-Rain Dance Mixed - Heracross can take hits decently, unless he carries Hydro Pump. However, if Heracross is down or in bad condition, Kingdra can lead a pretty harsh sweep.
Latias:
-Choice Scarf - Obviously there's no surefire counter, Jirachi and Scizor make decent switch-ins. Gyarados can come in on Surfs, as well as Heracross. Gliscor on Thunderbolts and Toxic ftw.
-Choice Specs - Much harder to switch in to. Usually guarantees a kill unfortunately, nothing in the world can take a Specs Meteor from this bitch.
-Offensive CM - Jirachi or Latias can Trick their scarves to lock her into Calm Mind ftw. Other than that, Heracross can come in on the CM, take the Pulse, and OHKO with Megahorn.
Lucario:
-Anti-Lead - Can't Anti-Lead Jirachi. Trick him on the Swords Dance or Counter or Attack and act accordingly.
-Swords Dance - Gliscor, the best counter to Lucario, does not disappoint.
-Choice Specs - Heracross is an excellent switch-in.
Machamp:
-ResTalk - Gliscor for the Taunt to prevent Sleep Talk and Rest, Toxic stall. Heracross can take the DynamicPunch + Payback combo easily and set up no problem.
-Bulk Up - Heracross set up fodder. Jirachi or Latias with Trick or Draco Meteor, respectively.
-SubChamp - Heracross set up fodder.
Magnezone:
-Steel Killer - If he traps Scizor and lacks Hidden Power Fire, Scizor Swords Dances in his face, Roosts off his Thunderbolts, and rapes him with Brick Break. If he traps Jirachi, Jirachi's dead =(.
-Choice Scarf - Since he does carry HP Fire, he will kill of Scizor once trapped, as well as Jirachi. Gliscor can OHKO with Earthquake. Heracross can even set up when locked into Hidden Power Fire.
-SubCharge Beam - If he lacks Hidden Power Fire and traps Scizor, Scizor can just keep on smacking him with Brick Break, not letting him boost. Even so, +1 Thunderbolts don't 2HKO (correct me if I'm wrong).
Mamoswine:
-Lead - Stealth Rock in case of Protect and switch to Scizor. Sometimes I feel lucky and go for the Trick. If they lack Stone Edge, they are set up fodder for Gyarados.
-Choice Band - Scizor ftw.
-LOSwine - This guy's a bit harder to predict, but Scizor is still the best switch-in.
Metagross:
-Lead - Trick because ScarfGross is just pointless on any team, tbh. Even an Earthquake is fine with Jirachi, it just lets Gyarados get soem set up time.
-Trick Lead - Yes, these exist, apparently. Stealth Rock and gtfo.
-Choice Band - This all depends who he switches in on. I would go to explain, but it's kind of redundant. Proper prediction to get rid of him, but he isn't a big threat once locked into something.
-ROCK POLISH - Agility is stupid, Rock Polish is awesomer. Heracross is my best bet, to take him head on. Being neutral to all of his attacks (resisting Earthquake), Heracross can effectively beat him with Bulk Ups. Meteor Mash WILL miss at some point.
-MixMeta - Gliscor is a decent switch in. Heracross as well.
Ninjask:
-Lead - Go to Scizor for the Priority rape.
Roserade:
-Lead - My team doesn't care for Toxic Spikes having 5 immune to it and one Guts user. Just proceed to Trick or switch to Heracross to absorb the sleep.
-Choice Scarf - Heracross can take a Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, and whatever Hidden Power and shatter Roserade's nonexistant physical defense.
-Choice Specs - Jirachi is a better switch-in to take the hit and outspeed and flinchax with Iron Head.
Rotom-A:
-Choice Scarf - Heracross can take all hits and Bulk Up as he switches out. Latias or Jirachi comes in on the Trick, even if Jirachi doesn't have his Scarf anymore, it just gives me another weapon to use agaisnt their team, as Jirachi was built to use a Scarf anyway.
-SubCharge Beam - Poses a problem, actually. Once a sub gets up, it's hard to take it down.
Salamence:
-Offensive Dragon Dance - Latias in on the Dragon Dance ftw.
-MixMence - Latias in on the Brick Break / Fire Blast / Earthquake ftw.
-Mixed Dance - Lacking Fire Blast, Scizor can come in with impunity, as can Jirachi. Latias in on the Dragon Dance ftw.
Scizor:
-Choice Band - Set up fodder for Gyarados ftw.
-Swords Dance - Gyarados can still take his hits without much trouble. Gliscor is also a fine counter.
Snorlax:
-Choice Band - Gliscor takes hits with relative ease and can Toxic him if the ability is Thick Fat (which it usually is).
-CurseLax - Same as above, actually. Taunt the Curse, Toxic. Trick also screws him up, especially a Scarf. SCARFLAX LOLOL.
Starmie:
-Choice Scarf - Heracross set up fodder.
-Choice Specs - Latias can come in on a Thunderbolt and KO with Draco Meteor or Thunderbolt.
-LOStar - Heracross set up fodder.
Suicune:
-Offensive Suicune - Trick Jirachi's Scarf. Heracross can take hits surprisingly well. If Suicune holds Life Orb, Heracross can stall it out. Leftovers Offensive Suicune is a gamble, though.
-SubCune - Heracross again.
Togekiss:
-Nasty Plot - Jirachi can take boosted Air Slashes and can even out-flinchax Togekiss with Iron Head.
-Flinchaxer - Dumb bitch. Just annoying is what it is. Same as above except Jirachi hopefully switches in on Air Slash or Roost.
Tyranitar:
-Lead - Trick the Scarf. 0 Speed EV ScarfTar ftw. Or just proceed to Stealth Rock and go to Gliscor.
-Choice Band - Gliscor is a solid switch-in, as Stone Edge has a very low chance to hit him and any other attacks do enough for him to Roost off, which begs Toxic Stall.
-Choice Scarf - Same as above.
-Dragon Dance - Since Babiri Berry is alsmot standard, Gliscor is the best switch-in only fearing the rare Aqua Tail. Heracross also laughs at his attacks.
-TyraniBOAH - Heracross is awesome against this guy, even if he carries Flamethrower. He just forces him to switch altogether with his presence.
-BaitTar - With such little investment is Special Attack, Heracross easily eats up hits STAB Crunch, Pursuit, Superpower, and Super-effective Flamethrowers / Fire Blast. Boost in his face.
Weavile:
-Anti-Lead - Take the Fake Out, Trick or Stealth Rock right after.
-Choice Band - Heracross threatens Weavile just with his presence; OHKOing with Megahorn. Scizor also has a Bullet Punch for fun.
-Swords Dance - Same as above.
Zapdos:
-Offensive Zapdos - If he doesn't carry Hidden Power Ice, Gliscor can effectively Toxic Stall him. If he does carry HP Ice, it's hard to take down.
-Agility Sweeper - Unfortunately, I can't do much to counteract it once it has an Agility under its belt. Jirachi or Latias have to Trick their scarves away and hopefully last that hard hit they may be taking.​

DEFENSIVE THREAT LIST
Blissey:
-WishBliss - Scizor scares Blissey out no problem. Heracross takes Blisseys that carry Flamethrower. Gliscor Taunts the bitch from Wishing.
-Cleric - Gliscor comes in on the Twaves, Taunts the bitch, Toxic the bitch, shit's done.
-Diverse Blissey - Flamethrowers get Taunted and Toxic'd by Gliscor. Ice Beamers are Scizor and Heracross's bitch (set up fodder).
Bronzong:
-Standard Wall - Gyarados walls Gyro Ball and Earthquake ftw.
-TrickZong - Let Jirachi take the Trick so that he may Trick it onto something else later on. If Jirachi still has his Scarf, then they get a ScarfZong LOLOL.
-Dual Screener - This is why Scizor is so handy with Brick Break; screeners get raped and hate sweepers abusing it hate his guts. Switch Scizor in, Swords Dance while they screen up, break the screens on their sweeper, and act accordingly.
-Trick Room - Heracross is fine with his attacks, and Bulk Up just keeps weakening his Gyro Ball. Heracross also takes on Machamp, a common TR member, head-on and almost always comes out on top (depends on confusion hax).
Celebi:
-Defensive - Leech Seed and Thunder Wave is Taunted and Toxic stalled by Gliscor. Hidden Power Ice variants are Scizor's best friend. Reflect is broken by Scizor's Brick Break.
-Special/Physical Passer - Gliscor for the Taunt and Toxic. NO PASS 4 U!
-Cleric - Gliscor for the Taunt and Toxic.
-More Leech Seed & CM - Same as above.
-SubSeed - Same as above, but break the sub first.
Dusknoir:
-Tank - Heracross set up fodder. Absorbs WoW and punches do nothing.
-Trick Room - Heracross set up fodder some more.
-Gravity - Gravity gives Heracross an advantage: increasing Megahorn's accuracy is a godsend.
Empoleon:
-Defensive Penguin - If all else fails, Latias with the Tunderbolt.
Forretress:
-Physically Defensive - Gliscor or Gyarados for the Taunt, switch to Jirachi to absorb the Payback / Explosion that is definitely coming.
-Specially Defensive - Same as above.
Gliscor:
-Defensive - Latias with the Draco Meteor or Surf.
-Dancing Tank - Same as above.
-Stallbreaker - Since I carry one of my own built to outspeed these Gliscor, I have both Latias to OHKO, or my Gliscor to Taunt + Toxic stall this guy.
Gyarados:
-ResTalk - Latias for the OHKO with Thunderbolt or Draco Meteor (for security; both OHKO).
Heatran:
-TormenTran - Gliscor for the Taunt to prevent Torment and his Taunt and spam Earthquake.
-ResTalk - Latias is my best bet, 2HKOing with Surf. Trick ruins the guy.
-Burn Support - Heracross takes the Will-O-Wisp, Heatran runs scared of a Close Combat OHKO.
Hippowdon:
-Physical Wall - Lacking Roar, Heracross set up fodder. With Roar, Gliscor for the Taunt and Toxic.
-Stockpilopotamus - Gliscor for the ezpz Taunt + Toxic stall.
Jirachi:
-Dual Screener - Same as other Dual Screeners: Set up, let them get their screens up, Break 'em on the switch.
-Wish Support - I like to Trick Scarves onto this guy so he can do nothing but Wish and not annoy me with Flinchax.
Latias:
-Defensive CM - Gliscor with the Taunt, Toxic stall and alternate accordingly to make sure she can't Refresh. If Gliscor is weak, Scizor can come in to Bullet Punch if she lacks HP Fire, or Latias with Draco Meteor.
-Dual Screen - Same as other Screeners, except since she may Roar, just break the Reflect she set up and Bullet Punch to death.
-Support - Gliscor with the Taunt, and thus Heracross set up fodder.
Metagross:
-Tank - Scizor can take Earthquakes a little worry, and thank to Roost, can just keep Roosting off and breaking the possible Light Screen with Brick Break while boosting with Swords Dance.
-Dual Screen - Same as above, essentially.
-ResTalk - Gyarados is a solid choice, but Meteor mashes kinda hurt overtime, but he can still take the hits and can boost to +2 if he decide to stay in, which prevents Scarf Starmie from revenging Gyarados.
Rotom-A:
-Defensive - Heracross absorbs WOWs and Discharges, can even take an Overheat and set up in his face.
-ResTalk - Same as above, but Gliscor's shuts down HP Grass variants as well.
Scizor:
-Bulky Swords Dance - Gliscor for the Taunt and switch to Gyarados to boost and take the hits or force it out.
-Baton Pass - Gliscor's and Gyarados' Taunt ruins it.
Skarmory:
-Spiker - Gliscor or Gyarados for the Taunt to prevent Whirlwind, Taunt, Spikes, and Roost. Latias for the Thunderbolt.
-Specially Defensive - Same as above.
Snorlax:
-ResTalk - Heracross beats this guy out pretty easily, even forces a switch because they fear a Close Combat OHKO.
Starmie:
-Defensive Rapid Spin - Same as LOStar.
-Reflect Support - Scizor can force out Starmie after the Reflect, break the screen, and proceed from there.
Suicune:
-CroCune - Taunt and Trick are good ways to get rid of it. Speedless ScarfCune lolz. Gyarados can Taunt and gtfo to Latias.
-ResTalk Shuffle - Same as above, Heracross with Megahorn does a fair amount as well.
-Calm Mind Shuffle - Trick is best, Taunt is fun, Latias.
Swampert:
-Lead - They usually attack expecting a Scarf, which I graciously give them, then switch out to Gyarados to absorb Earthquakes / Surfs and Taunt him to prevent Stealth Rock / Toxic / Roar, and DD in his face as he switches.
-Curse + ResTalk - Basically another CroCune, but being physical allows Heracross to do the exact same thing he's doing, and eventually win. Heracross has always won vs. these guys (any Swamperts, really lol).
-ResTalk - Same as above, only easier.
Tentacruel:
-Toxic Spiker - I don't need to Taunt this guy, no one on my team is affected my Toxic Spikes, and Heracross can Rest off the Toxic and gain a pre-emptive Guts boost from it. So, just go to Heracross (see the calcs as for why).
-ResTalk Support - Same as above.
Tyranitar:
-CurseTar - Heracross set up fodder; resists Payback and easily outspeeds and reaps with Super-effective Megahorn.
-Counter - Heracross has a little prediction to do, but he can come out on top sans hax. Never came across one, so I cannot assume. Gliscor prevents Dragon Dance with Taunt and can Toxic Stall him out easily.
Vaporeon:
-Standard Wish Support - Heracross set up fodder.
-Baton Pass - Gyarados has a safer Taunt, as they will usually carry Surf if they even use an attack; Gliscor is another Taunt option, albeit a much less solid one.
Zapdos:
-Physically Defensive - Hidden Power Grass variants can be Toxic Stalled by Gliscor. Hidden Power Ice variants are a problem, however.
-Specially Defensive - Same as above.
-SubRoost - Scizor can now take advantage of the Thunderbolt + HP Ice combination and Swords Dance in Zapdos' face. Heat Wavers are hard, though.​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Considerations: ​

~Reversal set on Heracross; this may alter the team altogether in significant ways. Someone has insisted that I change Heracross' sweeping set, because Megahorn alone is quite shaky in terms of sweeping, as much of OU resists it. I feel like the Reversal set should be brought back, should I feel the need to change the set.​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Thank You!​

Thanks for taking the time to read this RMT. It is my first post, and I hope it is up to standards here at Smogon. I sincerely thank you for taking the time to read it (you did read the entire thing, didn't you?) and I hope that my little creative writing parts weren't corny and helped keep you awake while reading. Please let me know if you did fall asleep reading this; I'll try to have more little creative writing bits to spice it up a bit. Please Rate, and remember: I am open to any and all suggestions; I will not directly reject suggestions for no well-thought out and logical reason. Some arguments that may oppose your suggestions may be based on my experience with the team, so I hope that you trust me when I say "From my experience..." or else I could just be saying "I don't think so; no thanks." if you really wanted me to.​

Again, thank you! Rates, critique, praise, suggestions are all more than welcome.​

 

[jc104]

Along with Scizor, he is the only Bug-type with neutrality to Stealth Rock.

Forretress? (also Wormadan-G edit: and -S and nincada lol.)

Anyway, this looks like a decent team and you have clearly put a lot of effort in making this so detailed:

On your lead Jirachi, you need to go physical. This is crucial for beating sashed leads such as Aerdactyl, Azelf and Roserade. You may also want U-turn, which is very helpful for preventing double switches (over thunderbolt.)

With Iron plate on Scizor, you need to make more effort to bluff the CB. This may mean Superpower over BB, and U-turn over Roost, as well as Max attack to make the power drop less obvious. The other option is to keep your current set and run leftovers, or change to a more offensive set with life orb.

I would go for Draco Meteor on Latias over Dragon Pulse. It has more power over 2 turns, and gives it some wallbreaking ability. Actually, since jirachi can revenge Gyarados at the moment, you could use it over Thunderbolt.

Good luck.

 

[tobi10]

This is a great team, congratulations on that! It has great synergy and an excellent presentation. Getting competitive, I realized that your have a hard time breaking through stall-breaker Gliscor; note that Gliscor is usually paired with Tyranitar and Rotom-A for Gyarados and Latias. Also, offensive Rotom-A might be a pain because he can get a free switch-in on Heracross and Scizor and start to fire his powerful STAB attacks. The only change I can suggest is to use Toxic over U-turn on Gliscor and some more Speed Evs to break through those treats easier.
Good luck with your awesome team!

 

[CrossHair-a]

Thanks for the quick input, you guys! I hope you enjoyed the read.

Forretress? (also Wormadan-G and nincada lol.)

I'll add that in, then :P

Anyway, this looks like a decent team and you have clearly put a lot of effort in making this so detailed:

On your lead Jirachi, you need to go physical. This is crucial for beating sashed leads such as Aerdactyl, Azelf and Roserade. You may also want U-turn, which is very helpful for preventing double switches (over thunderbolt.)

Thanks on the first part. As for physical Jirachi, that's fine, obviously it could go either way, but I'm kinda iffy on U-Turn. I mean, I understand how useful it is, being a scouting move and all that, but I don't see it being as useful for a TrickRachi lead. It all depends on how the first turn plays out, and U-Turn would only make my head hurt. But, sure, I'll consider it, seeing as Jirachi is supposed to be more or less utility and Stealth Rock is not that important.

With Iron plate on Scizor, you need to make more effort to bluff the CB. This may mean Superpower over BB, and U-turn over Roost, as well as Max attack to make the power drop less obvious. The other option is to keep your current set and run leftovers, or change to a more offensive set with life orb.

Hmm. Well, I don't like Superpower on a boosting Scizor, especially when I'm running the phys & spec defensive Bulky set. Lowering his attack is no problem, but the loss in defense can make him highly susceptible to Earthquake and other neutral physical attacks for KOs (Waterfall, Close Combats, etc). I'll stick with Leftovers, thanks then.

I would go for Draco Meteor on Latias over Dragon Pulse. It has more power over 2 turns, and gives it some wallbreaking ability. Actually, since jirachi can revenge Gyarados at the moment, you could use it over Thunderbolt.

Good luck.

Well, we've got enough wallbreaking going on already. But, I chose Pulse over Meteor to allow Latias to clean stuff up and scout switches. If something is about to die, Latias can come in and Dragon Pulse to see if they switch or kill it; it's actually win-win. Draco Meteor does give it some great firepower, though, I agree with that part no doubt. Seeing as she is Scarf'd and not Specs'd, that firepower could be greatly useful but...I'll stick with what I've got for now; thanks a lot though!

This is a great team, congratulations on that! It has great synergy and an excellent presentation. Getting competitive, I realized that your have a hard time breaking through stall-breaker Gliscor; note that Gliscor is usually paired with Tyranitar and Rotom-A for Gyarados and Latias. Also, offensive Rotom-A might be a pain because he can get a free switch-in on Heracross and Scizor and start to fire his powerful STAB attacks.

Gliscor is a problem; I would've had him on the threat list which I should get to posting sometime tomorrow or the day after. However, if Gliscor forces a switch, Latias can come in for the easy Surf KO, or even Trick the Scarf on him. He can carry Stone Edge, but defensive Gliscor (i.e. my Gliscor) will never OHKO Latias with it even after Stealth Rock. If he U-Turns, it'll hurt, but Latias is obviously faster, Scarf or not. Tyranitar is set-up bait for Heracross, and I usually have Latias go in vs. Scarf Rotoms. If they Trick, they get Latias' Scarf, and if they attack, Latias can come in if it isn't Shadow Ball. i.e. I can have Gyarados out vs. Rotom, switch to Latias to take the Tbolt and hit 'em back with Dragon Pulse. Defensive Rotoms are also dealt with, depending if they lack Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt. If they lack the former, Latias can KO, if they lack the latter, Gyarados has a relatively safe switch. If they lack their signature move, Heracross can come in ezpz thanks to his nice 308 SpD.

The only change I can suggest is to use Toxic over U-turn on Gliscor and some more Speed Evs to break through those treats easier.
Good luck with your awesome team!

Well, I would consider this if Rotom or Gliscor were revealed late-game, but suprisingly, my team almost forces them out mid-game. Gyarados, who I bring in as the initial-switch from Jirachi, is always out early-game, and their counter, if it is Rotom-A, will come out seeking a Tbolt KO or Trick. So, I know they have Rotom-A and I know how to deal with them. Stall-breaking Gliscor, on the other hand, can KO or cripple/status one of my pokemon, but I can send out Latias for the KO. If they U-Turn out as I switch-in Latias, then Latias will always find and opportunity to at least a neutral hit or Trick the switch-in.

Thanks for saying it's awesome. :D

 

[franky]

Hi Cross,

I like this team. The biggest issue I would say to this team is Zapdos, offensive or defensive it doesn't matter it is going to trouble you. I don't need to explain, but it switches in on a lot of your members with impunity and threatens them with Heat Wave or Thunderbolt. My first tweak would be the addition of Choice Band Scizor. Yes, its standard; however, its much needed on this team to help Heracross sweep and your other members sweep. U-turn escapes from Zapdos, taking good amount of damage even resisted (add that with Stealth Rock) and switch to the appropriate Pokemon. U-turn ultimately applies pressure and deals with Zapdos and in general Flying-type Pokemon. The set should be standard by now: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe with the nautre Adamant and the movesets U-turn / Bullet Punch / Superpower / Pursuit. Again, similar concept as the SD set but with U-turn to deal with those pesky Zapdos.

I like Return on Gyarados, but it seems like Stone Edge is the better option at the moment. It allows you to OHKO Zapdos with Stealth Rock down after one Dragon Dance. The last thing you truly want is missing the KO with Waterfall. Stone Edge not only hits Zapdos, it also strikes opposing Flying-types hard. This includes Salamence, Gyarados and whatnot.

As for other options, look for Toxic over U-turn on Gliscor. With Toxic, Gliscor turns into a potent stall breaker. U-turn is not really needed imo unless you pair with Tyranitar or you utilize Gliscor in the lead slot to take out Focus Sash. Toxic is much better, hitting stuff that are immune to Earthquake and Roost-stalling it. Also take the other peoples suggestion on physical Jirachi. Take advantage of Iron Head, its just better for dealing wih suicude leads by preventing them from setting up SR and hindering Gyarados somewhat. overall gl.

 

[CrossHair-a]

Hi Cross,

Well, hello, franky.

I like this team. The biggest issue I would say to this team is Zapdos, offensive or defensive it doesn't matter it is going to trouble you. I don't need to explain, but it switches in on a lot of your members with impunity and threatens them with Heat Wave or Thunderbolt. My first tweak would be the addition of Choice Band Scizor. Yes, its standard; however, its much needed on this team to help Heracross sweep and your other members sweep. U-turn escapes from Zapdos, taking good amount of damage even resisted (add that with Stealth Rock) and switch to the appropriate Pokemon. U-turn ultimately applies pressure and deals with Zapdos and in general Flying-type Pokemon. The set should be standard by now: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe with the nautre Adamant and the movesets U-turn / Bullet Punch / Superpower / Pursuit. Again, similar concept as the SD set but with U-turn to deal with those pesky Zapdos.

Offensive is a bit easier than defensive, but I see your points. Though, I'm not entirely sure how Zapdos could threaten Latias with Heat Wave or Thunderbolt. Latias can switch in on a Thunderbolt from the most offensive Zapdos, which won't OHKO after Stealth Rock, while Latias outspeeds and retaliates with a Dragon Pulse, which will OHKO after Stealth Rock. If Latias is down and Jirachi has his handy Scarf, he can just Trick it and I can go to the respective pokemon. But Specially Defensive Zapdos is the absolute hardest, even without its Light Screen up. My best bet it to Trick it a scarf from either Latias or Jirachi.

I like Return on Gyarados, but it seems like Stone Edge is the better option at the moment. It allows you to OHKO Zapdos with Stealth Rock down after one Dragon Dance. The last thing you truly want is missing the KO with Waterfall. Stone Edge not only hits Zapdos, it also strikes opposing Flying-types hard. This includes Salamence, Gyarados and whatnot.

I guess this is true. Definitely worth consideration, as I am seeing less and less Celebis, which Gliscor can take care of quite easily...Thanks! I overlooked Stone Edge; forgot about it.

As for other options, look for Toxic over U-turn on Gliscor. With Toxic, Gliscor turns into a potent stall breaker. U-turn is not really needed imo unless you pair with Tyranitar or you utilize Gliscor in the lead slot to take out Focus Sash. Toxic is much better, hitting stuff that are immune to Earthquake and Roost-stalling it. Also take the other peoples suggestion on physical Jirachi. Take advantage of Iron Head, its just better for dealing wih suicude leads by preventing them from setting up SR and hindering Gyarados somewhat. overall gl.

Considering I've been asked to do this by 2 people, I'll give it a shot, but for now I'll leave Gliscor's moveset displayed as it is. I get another great wall, I suppose, which has potential to stall out threats.

Thanks for the input, it helped a lot.

 

[MetaGross66]

Hello! Nice team here with Heracross, and I can see it working, but as of now, you have no way of stopping Heatran. Latias makes for a good counter, but with a Scarf, is just asking for Tyranitar to switch in. Even if you Surf, you won't 2KO counting SR damage on the standard CStar/CBtar. Heatran can then proceed to 2KO/OHKO your whole team with your only reliable switch in being Gyarados who is 2KOd by Fire Blast after SR while Waterfall fails to OHKO. Everything else is either outsped and OHKOed or can't safely come in to KO it (Gliscor). It can come in on Heracross (after it see Rest of course), Scizor, and Jirachi. Once it does, if you don't have Latias with you, it's taking something down.

For these reasons, at least consider running a different Heracross set, as for now, Bug STAB is resisted by a lot of things in OU and is quite horrible. Heracross also has that nasty weakness to Fire which is on so many things just because of all the Steel types running around so I really don't see it sweeping. Maybe an SD Heracross? It rips apart stall much like this Heracross, but isn't switchin fodder for Heatran and Skarmory. If you do this, then changing Scizor to a CB set would be better allowing you to weaken stuff like Rotom-A before it comes in. Gl and props for using Heracross! :)

 

[CrossHair-a]

Hello! Nice team here with Heracross, and I can see it working, but as of now, you have no way of stopping Heatran. Latias makes for a good counter, but with a Scarf, is just asking for Tyranitar to switch in. Even if you Surf, you won't 2KO counting SR damage on the standard CStar/CBtar. Heatran can then proceed to 2KO/OHKO your whole team with your only reliable switch in being Gyarados who is 2KOd by Fire Blast after SR while Waterfall fails to OHKO. Everything else is either outsped and OHKOed or can't safely come in to KO it (Gliscor). It can come in on Heracross (after it see Rest of course), Scizor, and Jirachi. Once it does, if you don't have Latias with you, it's taking something down.

Can't argue with that. But if it is true that they do have Tyranitar, Sandstorm helps Gliscor escape the Fire Blast, which is alerady sitting at 85 accuracy. I guess the best bet in this case would be to hope it misses and KO with Earthquake. If there is no Tyranitar, Latias would KO, wouldn't she? If not, then Latias and Gyarados could work together to take him out; but yes, he is bad news.

For these reasons, at least consider running a different Heracross set, as for now, Bug STAB is resisted by a lot of things in OU and is quite horrible. Heracross also has that nasty weakness to Fire which is on so many things just because of all the Steel types running around so I really don't see it sweeping. Maybe an SD Heracross? It rips apart stall much like this Heracross, but isn't switchin fodder for Heatran and Skarmory. If you do this, then changing Scizor to a CB set would be better allowing you to weaken stuff like Rotom-A before it comes in. Gl and props for using Heracross! :)

Of course it is resisted by almost everything in OU, that's why this team os kind of made to make sure that those pokemon do not appear when Heracross is sweeping, or, if they do, they are weakened enough for Heracross to KO them. But there's no doubt that SD Heracross is better in terms of sweeping, but durability and reliability are a huge problem on him. He eventually gets worn down by faster opponents (i.e. a large majority of OU) who hit neutral only. But I will consider it, I just foresee insufficient results.

 

[CrossHair-a]

*Slight bump with updates*

Jirachi has been changed to physical attacker; Jolly and Iron Head + Thunder Punch. Thanks to this, Stealth Rock has been prevented quite a few times now, and that allows Gyarados to switch in scot-free, which is incredibly sweet!!

Added a new "Considerations" section. It includes what you all have suggested so far, but I have not yet implemented/tested extensively enough to rely on it with regards to the move/set/pokemon it had been replaced with.

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

'Sup, bro-cross. (lol)

Just wanted to drop in and say that, like you, I'm a HUGE Heracross fan. I've been using him competitively since the beginning, cause I love the way he can jump in and save battles. It's weird that you'd post this team now... I've been working on a very similar one at the same time as you! (*cough cough*) It's rare for me to NOT have some form of Hera on my teams, usually a scarf variant or the same Bulk Up type. Meanwhile, I've seen ZERO Heracross on opposing teams in the past several months... that's why it's so refreshing to see a team around here focused on it. :)
Even from some of the posts in this thread, I can tell a lot of people are somewhat inexperienced with Bulk Up Heracross. I know from experiance that it is notoriously adaptable. I've even set up on Rotom-H, when I get the timing right... the average Overheat does about 60% to Hera, so you can Rest and continue from there.

I think one of the reasons Bulk Up does so well in OU is that there aren't TOO many fast Psychic-users going around. Stuff that can use it, like Starmie or Latias or whatever, usually doesn't... the odd scarf Jirachi or DD Gyra that would give you trouble seem to be pretty well dealt with on this team.

Anyways, I just had to post something, because I felt like our styles are much the same. Good luck with the team, and keep up the good work! =P

 

[CrossHair-a]

'Sup, bro-cross. (lol)

Just wanted to drop in and say that, like you, I'm a HUGE Heracross fan. I've been using him competitively since the beginning, cause I love the way he can jump in and save battles. It's weird that you'd post this team now... I've been working on a very similar one at the same time as you! (*cough cough*) It's rare for me to NOT have some form of Hera on my teams, usually a scarf variant or the same Bulk Up type. Meanwhile, I've seen ZERO Heracross on opposing teams in the past several months... that's why it's so refreshing to see a team around here focused on it. :)
Even from some of the posts in this thread, I can tell a lot of people are somewhat inexperienced with Bulk Up Heracross. I know from experiance that it is notoriously adaptable. I've even set up on Rotom-H, when I get the timing right... the average Overheat does about 60% to Hera, so you can Rest and continue from there.

Hey! I didn't notice that! At max, Timid 252 SpA Rotom-H Overheat does max 238 damage to BU + ResTalk Heracross. Huh, I guess my team really doesn't care for Scarf or Defensive Rotom-As. Although, once they know the set, they'll know that Tricking is the way to go, but defensive Rotom-As don't get in the way much. Thanks for pointing that out. Also, it's nice to see another Heracross user; but I really don't like the Scarf set, it just seems so impractical and Heracross can do way better than that. For example, as I said in my OP in the considerations section, ReversalCross can be beastly (as with SubSalac). It's basically a ScarfCross that needs set up and gets Swords Dance boosts AND can hide behind a Sub. What's not to love? If played right, he can just *WHOOSH* sweep an entire team right off their feet, face first to the cold ground. And Swarm is also an excellent ability along with those sets, Megahorn can be called the Grim Reaper's Scythe, because it does much the same thing.

I also love setting up on Bulky Waters. Vaporeons love trying to take advantage of Heracross and Heal Bell and and WishPass and they even try Toxicing Heracross; all to discover that he can Bulk Up and Rest off that Toxic. Although some Vaporeons and Swamperts (I love Swampies especially) and...every single bulky water out there has the chance to carry Roar, Heracross can take the chance, and anyone they drag out fares decently against special-based Bulky Waters (which is all BWaters bar Gyarados and physical Swampert), so there are no worries for phazing Heracross. This is also what I meant when I said I also wanted a backup plan for when Heracross has been ruined/his set has been revealed.

I think one of the reasons Bulk Up does so well in OU is that there aren't TOO many fast Psychic-users going around. Stuff that can use it, like Starmie or Latias or whatever, usually doesn't... the odd scarf Jirachi or DD Gyra that would give you trouble seem to be pretty well dealt with on this team.

Well, Starmie has been known nowadays to use it, but that's why I have Latias: to rape things like Starmie and DDGyara and DDMence and...basically anything that would be considered a threat.

Anyways, I just had to post something, because I felt like our styles are much the same. Good luck with the team, and keep up the good work! =P

Thanks, I will and you should too. I may as well rate your team when I get the chance to. :)

 

[UncleSam]

I really think the Heracross set needs revision. Heracross simply doesn't have the type coverage or Attack stat to be able to take out threats, even with multiple boosts. Also, with 0 Speed EV's, most of the Metagame outspeeds him. I would seriously consider running max speed/SD/CC and another coverage move. Guts helps you out with Status already, so Rest isn't really that necessary. I know you lose Defensive capability, but quite frankly, Heracross sucks as a tank. There are way too many pokemon running around with Flamethrower/Fire Blast who 2HKO or 1HKO him, even with the SPD Ev's. In other words, use Heracross for the reasons he is awesome: CC, and his offensive prowesss. The defensive abilities are nice, but are not the reason he is used and should not be the focal point of a Heracross set. Good luck with the team.

 

[CrossHair-a]

I really think the Heracross set needs revision.

That's what everybody thinks, pal.

Heracross simply doesn't have the type coverage or Attack stat to be able to take out threats, even with multiple boosts. Also, with 0 Speed EV's, most of the Metagame outspeeds him.

That's kind of the point of a tank.

I would seriously consider running max speed/SD/CC and another coverage move. Guts helps you out with Status already, so Rest isn't really that necessary.

Max speed would not help so greatly, enough to outrun Timid Heatran, sure, but losing the ability to boost on pretty much every Bulky Water in existence is kind of a let down. As for Rest, the main reason to use it is the 100% heal, as I know Heracross won't be having much trouble with status anyhow. But again, it's kind of the point of the set.

I know you lose Defensive capability, but quite frankly, Heracross sucks as a tank.

364 HP / 186 Def / 308 SpD

Boosting his defense one stage:

364 HP / 279 Def / 308 SpD

Let's not forget his 444 Attack Stat at this point. Just after one boost, Heracross is 2HKOd by Defensive Gliscor's Aerial Ace. That's a 4x weakness from a 90 BP move (factoring STAB). Let's look at Bulky Water's Surfs/Waterfalls:

Suicune:

4 SpA Bold Suicune Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 73 - 96; Never a 3HKO
252 SpA Timid Suicune Surf (LO Boost) vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 121 - 144; Never a 2HKO
4 SpA Bold Suicune Surf and +1 vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 109 - 129; Never a 2HKO

Swampert:

4 Atk Relaxed Swampert Waterfall vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross at +1: 84 - 100; Never a 3HKO
0 Atk Relaxed Swampert Waterfall at +1 vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross at +1: 127 - 150; Never a 2HKO

Vaporeon:

0 SpA Bold Vaporeon Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 85 - 102; Never a 3HKO
252 SpA Modest Vaporeon Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 117 - 138; Never a 2HKO

Empoleon:

252 SpA Modest Empoleon Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 118 - 139; Never a 2HKO
252 SpA Modest Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 148 - 175; Never a 2HKO

Tentacruel:

0 SpA Calm Tentacruel Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 66 - 78; Never a 4HKO
252 Atk Adamant Tentacruel Waterfall at +2 (LO Boosted) vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross at +1: 102 - 120; Never a 3HKO

Starmie:

252 SpA Timid Starmie Surf vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 100 - 118; Never a 3HKO
252 SpA Timid Starmie Hydro Pump vs. Standard Bulk Up + ResTalk Heracross: 126 - 148; Never a 2HKO


In essence, the best a Bulky Water could hope to do with their Surfs/Waterfalls is 3HKO. Any other attack they may carry is not super-effective, so I can safely assume they rely on their STABs.

There are way too many pokemon running around with Flamethrower/Fire Blast who 2HKO or 1HKO him, even with the SPD Ev's.

Which is why the team is built to get rid of those exact pokemon (except Heatran can cause trouble). Because Heracross, The Lone Warrior, lacks his secondary STAB move, the team really has to get the job done in terms of a) weakening counters; or b) eliminating them altogether. Anything to make Heracross, The Lone Warrior's job easier and make sure the sweep goes without a hitch. Besides, who is to say Heracross can't die or find a good pokemon to set up on? It happens, but not frequently enough. Gyarados has potential to sweep, as well as Latias during the very late-game. Scizor also works well in that aspect.

New Calc:

252 SpA Timid Choice Scarf Heatran vs. 156 HP / 28 SpD EV Adamant Gyarados: 95 - 112; Never a 2HKO after Stealth Rock (which takes off 92.5 when Gyara switches in).

Just sayin' lol.

In other words, use Heracross for the reasons he is awesome: CC, and his offensive prowesss. The defensive abilities are nice, but are not the reason he is used and should not be the focal point of a Heracross set. Good luck with the team.

I like to think quite the contrary. His offensive prowess, in this specific metagame, is growing less and less impressive because the metagame is becoming more and more focused around who goes first; speed, the one stat that Heracross is lacking in (in comparison to other incredible sweepers in Salamence, Latias, Infernape). Also, SubPetaya Empoleon and AgiliGross emphasize how important speed is. AgiliGross only needs a speed boost to rip through teams no problem; he doesn't need the boost in attack, he just needs to go first. Same for SubPetaya Empoleon if Petaya doesn't activate, Empoleon behind a sub with an Agility can cause terror because of the impressive STAB attack in Surf or Hydro Pump, and it cannot be statused because the sub can't be broken because it goes first. Scizor is also another example; it goes first because of Bullet Punch and that in itself can dent bulky pokemon like Salamence and Dragonite; what's more, they can't KO him with their Fire Blasts and why? Because they simply went second. Now, Heracross, with no investment, still outspeeds bulky pokemon; more specifically, Bulky Waters such as Suicune and Vaporeon; who also carry no investment.

If Heracross has moreso 0 chance of going first, why not play to his defenses, where it is still quite important that he go first, but it doesn't mean he's KO'd first thing, no problem. Why? Because when we play by his defenses, he lasts longer and can hit back as strongly as he would with Swords Dance boosts. That essentially solves (to an extent) the problem of speed. Examples of this are Curse + ResTalk Swampy and CurseLax. These two guys are much like Bulk Up ResTalk Heracross: STAB Attack, stat-up Attack and Defense while maintaining a nice Special Defense, and using Rest and Sleep Talk to heal up and attack or stat-up (though, CurseLax uses a filler move in its place, thanks to its massive HP). Though they are so slow, they remain quite big threats to some teams, and most teams lose a pokemon just because of one boost. All the while, they are slower than anything (because of using Curse) and yet can tank and heal hits. Now, I know, they are naturally bulkier to Heracross, but what I'm getting at is that this set works. It works wonders; just like CurseLax does. Smogon analysis also agrees that no one should look over respectable defenses:

Heracross has respectable defensive stats which are often overshadowed by its remarkable offensive potential, yet Heracross can trade some of its immediate firepower for staying power.

Bulk Up is far less used as a boosting option since Heracross may appear to lack the bulk required to be truly effective, and many reject it in favor of Swords Dance or a Choice item. Although Bulk Up Heracross is not as immediately threatening as the Sword Dance or Choice Band varieties, in the proper hands it can be a powerful sweeper that is difficult to stop.

I see that you are one of those people.

[/endrant]

 

[Setsuna]

Responding to the VM, I see there is not much left to say about the team. Although I'll see what else I can propose to you.

The first thing I would like to remark (as some people has already done) is Jirachi's spread. If you want to maintain another Gyarados check in case Latias faints, you should really consider run 252 Atk EVs in order to ensure that Jirachi is going to OHKO Bulky Gyarados with Stealth Rock down, something that with the current set will happen if you score a max. damage to it. So, again, I think it's worth the change.

Considering that franky mentioned Zapdos, and you don't understand how it can be a threat, I will point out a couple of ways in which it could give your team some troubles. One is a SubToxic set, it pretty much destroys half of the team once it gets a Sub up, the only thing I see preventing it for doing such thing is Gliscor because of Taunt. Speaking about Gliscor, you definitely want Toxic on it, that'd be probably one of the few things you can do to combat SubZapdos, once you poison it, it's dead; besides, that set of Gliscor works excellent against stall which can be absolutely helpful for Heracross.
I mentioned two set of Zapdos, the second is just a normal set (Thunderbolt - Heat Wave...), and yes, it's not a concern for Latias but, between SR and 22% of damage Thunderbolts (the lower), your dragon, that won't ever see a Wish coming around, it's gonna die kind of fast. So one more time, Zapdos brings up an important problem.
I already said that Taunt+Toxic is required if you want to have a softer time against it. Other than that, I would have to suggest a replacement, something that I don't see that necessary always that you keep Zapdos aside.

At this point, the team has what it needs to succeed imo. Going with a standard CB set on Scizor would could be smart though.

Sorry for the short rate, gl.

 

[CrossHair-a]

Responding to the VM, I see there is not much left to say about the team. Although I'll see what else I can propose to you.

The first thing I would like to remark (as some people has already done) is Jirachi's spread. If you want to maintain another Gyarados check in case Latias faints, you should really consider run 252 Atk EVs in order to ensure that Jirachi is going to OHKO Bulky Gyarados with Stealth Rock down, something that with the current set will happen if you score a max. damage to it. So, again, I think it's worth the change.

The calcs don't lie, I'll definitely change to all Atk.

Considering that franky mentioned Zapdos, and you don't understand how it can be a threat, I will point out a couple of ways in which it could give your team some troubles. One is a SubToxic set, it pretty much destroys half of the team once it gets a Sub up, the only thing I see preventing it for doing such thing is Gliscor because of Taunt. Speaking about Gliscor, you definitely want Toxic on it, that'd be probably one of the few things you can do to combat SubZapdos, once you poison it, it's dead; besides, that set of Gliscor works excellent against stall which can be absolutely helpful for Heracross.

Hold on, are you referring to Smogon's SubRoost + Toxic set, or SubToxic with Heat Wave for Roost but with the same spread? I just kind of have to make sure before I can assert this effectively.

I mentioned two set of Zapdos, the second is just a normal set (Thunderbolt - Heat Wave...), and yes, it's not a concern for Latias but, between SR and 22% of damage Thunderbolts (the lower), your dragon, that won't ever see a Wish coming around, it's gonna die kind of fast. So one more time, Zapdos brings up an important problem.
I already said that Taunt+Toxic is required if you want to have a softer time against it. Other than that, I would have to suggest a replacement, something that I don't see that necessary always that you keep Zapdos aside.

This I can't entirely argue with; except for if I have already eliminated their steels, then Dragon Pulse has a free killing spree. I'm not sure what you're getting at when you say that Latias will be worn down from 22% Tbolt and neutral Stealth Rock damage.

At this point, the team has what it needs to succeed imo. Going with a standard CB set on Scizor would could be smart though.

Sorry for the short rate, gl.

It was short but quite helpful and Thanks. Well, I could try CB Scizor, but I'll try it if Bulky SD Scizor starts to spontaneously not work.

 

[Setsuna]

SubToxic + Roost and Thunderbolt, neutral natured 0 SpA Zapdos, for example. If it sets a Sub up, Jirachi or Latias can't Trick it, the first is going to get killed and the second poisoned; Scizor can't fight Zapdos, and Heracross will be getting around 28% by each Thunderbolt so it can attempt to Bulk Up on it.
In case you encounter a simple SubRoost + T-bolt and Heat Wave set, Heracross won't be able to do that. So Gliscor again is the best option here.

What I meant when I said that Latias will be worn down from 22% Thunderbolts and neutral Stealth Rock damage, is that she's actually a good check for Zapdos, but as she doesn't have her own recovery move or a Wishpass teammate, she won't be able to face Zapdos every time during the whole match. Remember that Timid Dragon Pulse against 248 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Zapdos does only a maximum of 44%, and if you look at Smogon's SubRoost see, you will see 184 SpD EVs (if I recall correctly) attached to that stat in particular. Therefore, ScarfLatias (even being Modest), can't beat the Zapdos that I used as an example, while it beats Latias.

 

[CrossHair-a]

SubToxic + Roost and Thunderbolt, neutral natured 0 SpA Zapdos, for example. If it sets a Sub up, Jirachi or Latias can't Trick it, the first is going to get killed and the second poisoned; Scizor can't fight Zapdos, and Heracross will be getting around 28% by each Thunderbolt so it can attempt to Bulk Up on it.

I would rather have Heracross out after Gliscor has Taunted it, but that may force it out and dissallow set up.

In case you encounter a simple SubRoost + T-bolt and Heat Wave set, Heracross won't be able to do that. So Gliscor again is the best option here.

No dissagreement here; Heracross has a small chance to set up, but he would have to use ResTail wayy too much, and with Pressure is a massive PP drainer.

What I meant when I said that Latias will be worn down from 22% Thunderbolts and neutral Stealth Rock damage, is that she's actually a good check for Zapdos, but as she doesn't have her own recovery move or a Wishpass teammate, she won't be able to face Zapdos every time during the whole match. Remember that Timid Dragon Pulse against 248 HP / 0 SpD neutral natured Zapdos does only a maximum of 44%, and if you look at Smogon's SubRoost see, you will see 184 SpD EVs (if I recall correctly) attached to that stat in particular. Therefore, ScarfLatias (even being Modest), can't beat the Zapdos that I used as an example, while it beats Latias.

Well, then Gliscor could check that one. If it runs Roar, Gliscor can Taunt it. If it runs HP Ice, Heracross can set up. If it runs Toxic, Heracross can set up. In fact, Heracross at +1 and Gurs activated 2HKOs Zapdos 100% of the time, with or without Stealth Rock. Heracross could win, it just depends how things are played out (especially Sleep Talk not choosing Rest every single time!). But, I'm being wayy too optimistic rather than secure.

I'll ask this, then: will Gyarados with Stone Edge solve this problem; to an extent? If not, then what is a good direct counter to Defensive Zapdos sets?

 

[Setsuna]

To an extent, yes.
With your current lineup Gliscor comes as the best check for it. Other than that, the team would need some "retouches" since Refresh Latias or Blissey (just to name a pair) are not an option for your team.
I would only recommend you to play cautiously with Gliscor and Latias, try not to give it space to set a Substitute either. With proper playing, you can beat Zapdos ;)

 

[AlphaBravo]

Agility Zapdos with Agility/Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Roost 6-0s this team if it can get a Agility if SR is up, Latias is under 70% and Jirachi is either below 60% or had tricked it's Scarf (health is before the last Stealth Rock switchin, so Latias has 57.5% after switching). Simply, the Thunderbird outspeeds your team, and either OHKO's (Under 70% Latias, Gyarados, Gliscor) or takes less then 50% damage and 2HKOed (Trickless Jirachi, Heracross, Scizor).

Example: The killer Zap comes on your Latias after she Surfed that annoying ScarfTran to death, taking 22% damage from that beast's Flamethrower and a additional 12.5% from Stealth Rock (So your Latias is at 66.6%). A quick calculation (or memory) tells you that you only deal 31.2% - 36.8% with Surf - under the needed 50%. After Stealth Rock damage, the Zapdos@75 shows no sign of Leftovers - its a Life Orb one. If you stay, the Zapdos@~42 after your hit can Roost and become a Zapdos@92/58 if you Surf again, so you switch to Heracross while the Zapdos uses Agility. Your Megahorn turns the Zapdos@75 to a Zapdos@47 while your Hera-X becomes a Heracross@46. A second Thunderbolt, a Heracross@0 (and a Zapdos@27). So, you switch to your trusty Scizor. You predict the not-so-hard-to-predict Roost, dealing max damage. Now you are facing a Zapdos@57. Knowing that Resistance is Futile(tm), you attempt to Swords Dance twice then Bullet Punch to hell. The Zapdos@100 hits, Roosts and hits again turning your Scizor into scrap metal while turning into a Zapdos@32 (Yes max damage. TWICE max damage, but you didn't predict the Roost in the middle - you can't count on perfect prediction). Then, you attempt to revenge kill with Latias, too bad, KOed. Gyarados and Gliscor meet a similar fate. The Zapdos@2 quickly roosts on your Jirachi (who tricked her Scarf to Metagross) and 2HKOs. 5-0. Yes, you cloud have switched in one of (Gyarados, Latias, Gliscor) when Zapdos was at 27/After killing H-X and force the Thunderbird to kamikaze them, but this still loses you 4 Pok'emon to the other guy's 2, and SDZor + LeadJirachi are not going to win. Yes you can switch between Gyarados and Latias causing LO Damage, but 1 predicted switch and you are before Sq. 1, facing a Zapdos@>50 ready to kick some ass. Switching into H-X while Zappy is below 40% can help too, but only if Megahorn likes you - 1 miss, 1 healthy Zapdos ready to kick ass.

 

[CrossHair-a]

Agility Zapdos with Agility/Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Roost 6-0s this team if it can get a Agility if SR is up, Latias is under 70% and Jirachi is either below 60% or had tricked it's Scarf (health is before the last Stealth Rock switchin, so Latias has 57.5% after switching). Simply, the Thunderbird outspeeds your team, and either OHKO's (Under 70% Latias, Gyarados, Gliscor) or takes less then 50% damage and 2HKOed (Trickless Jirachi, Heracross, Scizor).

Example: The killer Zap comes on your Latias after she Surfed that annoying ScarfTran to death, taking 22% damage from that beast's Flamethrower and a additional 12.5% from Stealth Rock (So your Latias is at 66.6%). A quick calculation (or memory) tells you that you only deal 31.2% - 36.8% with Surf - under the needed 50%. After Stealth Rock damage, the Zapdos@75 shows no sign of Leftovers - its a Life Orb one. If you stay, the Zapdos@~42 after your hit can Roost and become a Zapdos@92/58 if you Surf again, so you switch to Heracross while the Zapdos uses Agility. Your Megahorn turns the Zapdos@75 to a Zapdos@47 while your Hera-X becomes a Heracross@46. A second Thunderbolt, a Heracross@0 (and a Zapdos@27). So, you switch to your trusty Scizor. You predict the not-so-hard-to-predict Roost, dealing max damage. Now you are facing a Zapdos@57. Knowing that Resistance is Futile(tm), you attempt to Swords Dance twice then Bullet Punch to hell. The Zapdos@100 hits, Roosts and hits again turning your Scizor into scrap metal while turning into a Zapdos@32 (Yes max damage. TWICE max damage, but you didn't predict the Roost in the middle - you can't count on perfect prediction). Then, you attempt to revenge kill with Latias, too bad, KOed. Gyarados and Gliscor meet a similar fate. The Zapdos@2 quickly roosts on your Jirachi (who tricked her Scarf to Metagross) and 2HKOs. 5-0. Yes, you cloud have switched in one of (Gyarados, Latias, Gliscor) when Zapdos was at 27/After killing H-X and force the Thunderbird to kamikaze them, but this still loses you 4 Pok'emon to the other guy's 2, and SDZor + LeadJirachi are not going to win. Yes you can switch between Gyarados and Latias causing LO Damage, but 1 predicted switch and you are before Sq. 1, facing a Zapdos@>50 ready to kick some ass. Switching into H-X while Zappy is below 40% can help too, but only if Megahorn likes you - 1 miss, 1 healthy Zapdos ready to kick ass.

Ok, honestly, I have never seen an Agility Zapdos; not even on a Baton Pass team. For the time being, I'll wait for one to show up and then change around my team accordingly. Also, couldn't I just Trick Latias's Scarf onto Zapdos if Jirachi's has been Tricked already?

 

[AlphaBravo]

Ok, honestly, I have never seen an Agility Zapdos; not even on a Baton Pass team. For the time being, I'll wait for one to show up and then change around my team accordingly. Also, couldn't I just Trick Latias's Scarf onto Zapdos if Jirachi's has been Tricked already?

+2 Zapdos outspeeds Latias.

The given EVs provide Zapdos with 265 Speed, allowing it to outspeed Neutral Choice Scarf base 125's after an Agility, as well Timid Choice Scarf Gengar.

Both Gengar and Latias are Base 110 Speeders. And Heatran bringed Latias into HP Ice KO Range in the story. Gyarados had switched-in before so it wasn't a good answer to ScarfTran (Gyarados had taken a Flamethrower before, bringing him into Flamethrower 2HKO range with SR).

A quick scan revealed that your problem is lack of bulk. Many Pok'emon can kill your team. If Latias is down and Jirachi is unscarfed, J. Random Life Orber can give you major trouble.

EDIT: If Hera and Jirachi took a unrelated round of SR Damage, HP Electric all-Special Kingdra literally outspeeds and OHKOs all of your Pok'emon. If Jirachi tricked her scarf, she does not have to be damaged either...

 

[Gir!]

+2 Zapdos outspeeds Latias.

Both Gengar and Zapdos are Base 110 Speeders. And Heatran bringed Latias into HP Ice KO Range in the story. Gyarados had switched-in before so it wasn't a good answer to ScarfTran (Gyarados had taken a Flamethrower before, bringing him into Flamethrower 2HKO range with SR).

A quick scan revealed that your problem is lack of bulk. Many Pok'emon can kill your team. If Latias is down and Jirachi is unscarfed, J. Random Life Orber can give you major trouble.

EDIT: If Hera and Jirachi took a unrelated round of SR Damage, HP Electric all-Special Kingdra literally outspeeds and OHKOs all of your Pok'emon. If Jirachi tricked her scarf, she does not have to be damaged either...

Last time I checked, Zapdos was base 100 Spd

 

[CrossHair-a]

+2 Zapdos outspeeds Latias.

Both Gengar and Zapdos are Base 110 Speeders. And Heatran bringed Latias into HP Ice KO Range in the story. Gyarados had switched-in before so it wasn't a good answer to ScarfTran (Gyarados had taken a Flamethrower before, bringing him into Flamethrower 2HKO range with SR).

Zapdos is Base 100 Speed, not 110. But still, I'll wait until I encounter an Agility Zapdos with ScarfTran by its side.

A quick scan revealed that your problem is lack of bulk. Many Pok'emon can kill your team. If Latias is down and Jirachi is unscarfed, J. Random Life Orber can give you major trouble.

Which is why it's quite key to keep Latias healthy; though I do not have a WishPasser, I could consider one (Jirachi?).

Replies in bold.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Replies in bold.

Meant Latias instead of Zapdos - the 265 Spe Zappy outspeeds +1 +ve Base 110ers. And Latias is Pursuit-weak. Also:

- Kingdra still rules over your team. H-X can only switch into SR once before he enters OHKO range.
- Heatran is similar. Under Sunny Day and Stealth Rock, if it hits 8/8, ScarfTran Fire Blast literally turns this team into ashes. If Latias/Gyarados switch in on Dragon Pulse, its a few less Fire Blasts of trouble.

 

[CrossHair-a]

Meant Latias instead of Zapdos - the 265 Spe Zappy outspeeds +1 +ve Base 110ers. And Latias is Pursuit-weak.

Oh, ok. Wording was misleading.

Also:

- Kingdra still rules over your team. H-X can only switch into SR once before he enters OHKO range.

From which set and which attack and does he have a boost?

- Heatran is similar. Under Sunny Day and Stealth Rock, if it hits 8/8, ScarfTran Fire Blast literally turns this team into ashes. If Latias/Gyarados switch in on Dragon Pulse, its a few less Fire Blasts of trouble.

Ok, cool, thank you for pointing out weaknesses that has already been said. Now, as a rater, can you think of any way I can handle these threats without gaining very many others as well as changing the team as little as possible?