Metagame Inheritance

Chloe

;w;
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
I got permission to check and post this.

Hoopa-Unbound: 9-4 / 69.2%
Kartana: 11-2 / 84.6%

Everyone who voted was found to be not locked during the suspect process.
Both votes exceed 60% thus Hoopa-Unbound and Kartana have been banned from Inheritance.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Any good mons that could make use of Steelworker inherited from Dhelmise? I think Empoleon would be a nice place to start:

empoleon.gif
781.png

Empoleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpA
Brave Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Flash Cannon
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

Not only does STAB Steelwork Anchor Shot and Flash Cannon hit hard, but the trapping aspect of Anchor Shot has many applications by itself. Empoleons' good defensive typing would make it a good spinner, as well.

I can see Dragons also being able to make use of this to lure in Ice types and Bulky Fairies. Any ideas?
 
Any good mons that could make use of Steelworker inherited from Dhelmise? I think Empoleon would be a nice place to start:
I can see Dragons also being able to make use of this to lure in Ice types and Bulky Fairies. Any ideas?
I'd say Escavalier is the best Dhelmise user now that Kartana is gone, Steelworker Gyro Ball just nukes everything.

Empoleon isn't too bad, but it seems like it would just get walled by most of the tanks and walls out there, and without setup or recovery, the main utility it's left being good for is just hazard removal.

Lures are also practically non-existant since donors are revealed in gen 7 inheritance.
 

Dioo

formerly fuleno
Tried to be creative.

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- Wild Charge
- Sucker Punch

Inheriting from Spinda, it gets Superpower Contrary. Not all that bad.
And, Sucker Punch and Wild Charge is cool.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
From what I've seen, I see Inheritance as a means to put wished buffs into practice.
One mon that I think needs a buff is Claydol, and that can be given here. Here's a set that inherits said buff (Regenerator) from... Corsola, of all mons:

claydolshiny.gif
222.png

Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 8 SpA / 116 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Recover

Basically, you exchange Rapid Spin for a hell of a lot of longevity (which it basically never had before). Despite it's 6 weaknesses, I've seen Claydol as a mon with a lot of potential... just a shame Game Freak never realized it.

Toxic is there to break down things that could give you headaches defensively (obviously), and you also set Stealth Rock. Not a lot of explaining required tbh.

Corsola does also seem like a decent-ish donor, so maybe we could look into that?
 

drampa's grandpa

formerly The Ruins of Alpha
Given that scpinion is pretty non-existent right now, is anyone else going to take over Inheritance? I like this meta and don't want to see it languish ownerless.

Also Mega Mawile has been released since anyone cared about this meta.

From Carracosta
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Knock Off

From Klinklang (free Genesect)
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Wild Charge
- Return

From Scizor
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Superpower

From Komala
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
 

nv

The Lost Age
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
Hey guys!

So first off, I want to thank scpinion (rip) for hosting this as long as he did (despite his LOA w/ no warning :x) He was the one who wanted to take over after I basically got upset with the way the whole "indicators" thing was handled. Speaking of, for those who are wondering, the indicators will be remaining in INH7 (btw that is what I dubbed this gen since it is slightly different from last gen with the indicators. Feel free to use the abbreviation as well :P) This is due in part to the fact that, while people liked no indicators, it did make for a more-than-necessary complicated metagame and therefore it eases prediction and fwiw lures can still be an integral part of the meta as you can run different moves within a Pokemon's movepool.

Secondly, I want to start the new leadership off right by bringing up discussion points to liven the thread up a bit so here goes nothing.
  • What do you guys feel is the best donor/Pokemon in the current metagame and why? Are they broken? Why or why not?
  • What do you guys feel is the best playstyle in the current metagame? Is there any variety or is it effectively "stuck in a rut"?
  • What are some examples of the best playstyle? (This can be shown with full teams or cores)
Lastly, I wanna encourage you guys to start discussing potential viability rankings as we never really got one set up when this was OMotM. I also wanna encourage sample teams/building blocks to help people get into the metagame with ease. Let's get to discussing! n_n

P.S. Imma give you guys a "fun" set that may not necessarily be viable but show the weird af combos you can come up with in INH7 :P

Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

This set basically abuses the "no weaknesses" strategy while also giving Alolan Muk reliable recovery. Rapid Spin is somewhat filler since Cryogonal's physical movepool is lacking, but it serves as a nice utility with Levitate as Alolan Muk is neutral to Stealth Rock, making it a potentially decent hazard remover.
 
Dunno if things have changed since I last played, but Shell Smash users were pretty dominant back then. It's the kind of move given to shitmons such that there's any reason to use them, and now they're on already-great bodies. To my knowledge there's nothing that can't be walled, but that's little comfort if you're not using stall (or certain balance builds). I ran screens or Sticky Web on offense to keep them off my ass, no idea how I would do it without those. Perhaps broken, but truthfully I don't know for sure.

I posted a team upthread where Aurora Veil Koko supported Torkoaltran and Carracosta-MGyara; without Kartana and Pheromosa, the team would have to be very different (and it always did need something to set up on Scarf Keldeo) but that core is probably still viable.

For sheer splashability, Tapu Koko has a just plain astonishing array of viable sets, with few uniting factors beyond a +Spe nature. It's one of the fastest things in the meta, and combined with its unique typing and usable offenses, that makes it the top pick for so many situations and a welcome addition to my two best offensive teams.

Celesteela is the prime choice for a lot of defensive and bulky-offensive sets, essentially being its OU self on steroids. I'm partial towards Unaware CM with Air Slash and Toxic/Stored Power/Taunt as a bulky wincon and stallbreaker, but it's happy with nearly anything that can give it recovery. I don't know whether it's suited for full stall and it has no business on HO, but otherwise I think any team could benefit from a tailor-made Celesteela.

Just like last gen, Heatran can run the gamut from offensive terror to bulky pivot and everything in-between -- all it asks is a Fire STAB. Not gonna elaborate on this one, we all know what Tran does.
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
  • What do you guys feel is the best donor/Pokemon in the current metagame and why? Are they broken? Why or why not?


Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Liquidation
- Earthquake / Substitute
- Shell Smash

I definitely feel that both Shell Smash Donors (ie: Barbaracle and Carracosta) are quite potent atm when paired with Mega Gyarados. Opposed from other setup sweepers, Mega Gyarados is able to break through common Unaware defensive threats such as Suicune, Tapu Fini, and Celesteela with its boosted attacks thanks to Mold Breaker. In standard play this is usually manageable, but the access to Shell Smash in this meta makes it too volatile imo. Here are some old replays i could find demonstrating this:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-535558206
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-535552864

Mega Gyara just becomes too much of an immediate threat after one Shell Smash boost, and can often decide games once it gets one turn of setup. I do not really feel that inheriting from the Shell Smashers is the main issue, but rather it being Mega Gyarados that extenuates the impact that these donors have. I feel a suspect is warranted at this point.
 

nv

The Lost Age
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

THE BEAST
Mega Gyarados "Suspect" Discussion

While there hasn't been too much response to my questions, I feel like I have gathered the basis of what needs to be addressed and that is Mega Gyarados.

As Funbot said, Mega Gyarados is a bigger issue than most other abusers of Shell Smash donors due to the fact that it can Mega Evolve to break through Unaware users such as Tapu Fini and Suicune. While there are other viable abusers of Shell Smash such as Heatran, none of them have access to a Mega Evolution that can help them break through Unaware inheritors. After doing a bit of testing with Funbot, we further found that Mega Gyarados can just easily set up within the meta due to Solid Rock pre-mega allowing it to take some Rock-type hits (it will still die to any strong Electric-type move) as well as access to Liquidation, which can force switches with the potential Defense drop, allowing for more setup opportunities. The fact that Gyarados also gains a boost to its bulk upon Mega Evolving helps in neutering the defense drops from Shell Smash. In the end, Mega Gyarados is definitely proving to be a massive threat that I do believe a suspect is in order. Although, since Inheritance lacks a ladder on the main server, we shall discuss Mega Gyarados's effect on the metagame and whether or not it is banworthy. While we do lack a ladder, Inheritance is playable on ROM and DragonHeaven so I expect to see replays showcasing Mega Gyarados in all its glory. While it isn't required, it would certainly help one's argument as to whether or not Mega Gyarados is too much for the metagame. If I don't see a lot of discussion on this, I may end up coming to a decision on my own (although for future "suspects" Inheritance will have a council as I am currently gathering info on who would make good council members). So discuss!!!


EDIT: 2.4k post!!!
 
Last edited:
I'm kinda bored so I'm gonna dump a few sets I made on the fly.


Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dual Chop
- Aerial Ace
- Seed Bomb
- Fake Out

Dual Chop allows for a 120 BP STAB move thanks to Technician. Aerial Ace is a 90 BP Flying STAB, Seed Bomb and Fake Out are just fillers.


Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Water Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt

Sadly, Ambipom lacks a strong water STAB to give to Tapu Fini. However, it has Technician booster Water Pulse to have a 90 BP STAB Move. HP Ice gives it 90 BP ice coverage and Thunderbolt turns it into Bolt Beam. Nasty Plot allows it to set up on bulky mons which makes it a hassle to deal with.


Golisopod @ Assault Vest
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- X-Scissor
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Crunch

Crawdaunt gives Golisopod some nice moves and a great ability to boot. Adaptability Crabhammer from 125 base attack is gonna hurt. Aqua Jet is Priority STAB, crunch is just random coverage.


Xurkitree @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Vacuum Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Coverage
- Coverage

Gallade is the only mon (outside of Mew, Mankey or Primape) to give both Vacuum Wave and Thunderbolt, so giving to Xurkitree is a pretty good choice. With +1 Priority Fighting coming off of a deadly 173 SpA, this thing is sure to take down a mon or 2. Gallade also gives nice coverage in moves like Shadow Ball, Psychic, Dazzling Gleam and Signal Beam.


Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Coverage

Everyone knows about Golisopod. It has a pretty good movepool, but is hindered by a crap ability. Well Mega Beedrill takes Golisopods strong points and removes Emergency Exit. First Impression give Mega Drill a nice way to deal a lot of damage on a switch in, and Leech Life can allow it to survive an extra hit that it might not have done without the recovery. Golisopod then has a lot of coverage in moves like: Brick Break, Rock Slide, Sucker Punch and more.


Xurkitree @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rock Polish
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Coverage

Rampardos is infamous for having the highest attack stat of any non mega, non legendary mon. However, It's special movepool is vast, giving lots of coverage options, including the infamous BoltBeam, aswell as moves like Flamethrower, Surf, Dragon Pulse, Focus Blast and Earth Power. Rock Polish allows this Xurkitree to reach 530 speed after a single Rock Polish, and it then proceeds to sweep through the opponent due to it's sky high 489 SpA.
 
Last edited:

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression
- Lunge
- Poison Jab
- Coverage

Everyone knows about Golisopod. It has a pretty good movepool, but is hindered by a crap ability. Well Mega Beedrill takes Golisopods strong points and removes Emergency Exit. First Impression give Mega Drill a nice way to deal a lot of damage on a switch in, and Lunge is literally an upgraded X-Scissor. Golisopod then has a lot of coverage in moves like: Brick Break, Rock Slide, Sucker Punch and more.
Golisopod doesn't learn Lunge.
 

Lemon Ginger

formerly Hot Dog Pizza
I have been pleasantly surprised by Inh7 and played it way more than I expected during its ladder period. In the past, I thought inheritance was fun, but due to the sheer variety of sets and lack of indication of what was being used, it was very hard to actually tell what the opponent would be using, short of relying on metagame knowledge. This made random lures MUCH more powerful. I am glad that the donor tag is here to stay and I think it will be good to ensure a healthy development.

My memory of actual metagame threats and donors is a bit foggy, but I'll be looking at the usage stats to hopefully trigger some recall. Kartana and Pheromosa where easily the most centralizing and powerful threats and were rightfully banned. There were counters that were able to cover both pokemon, but they were either incredibly niche, or threatened by obscure sets.


This leads me to my first suspect donor: Kecleon

Kecleon has a small but insane movepool, covering pretty much anything you could want on both attacking sides, as well as having useful utility moves and the big whopper: PROTEAN. Just to give an idea of the moves it gets:

Special: Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Shadowball, Flamethrower, Grass Knot +the stronger elemental versions for better zmoves: Thunder, Blizzard, Fireblast, solarbeam, synchonoise.
Physical: Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, Fakeout, aerial ace, facade, foul play, aqua tail, counter, drain punch, fire punch, focus punch, ice punch, iron tail, knock off, low kick, powerup punch, thunder punch, secret power, retaliate
Status: Sunny Day, Disable, Recover, Nasty Plot, Trick, trick room, thunder wave, stealth rock, rain dance, magic coat, hone claws, recycle

Wow...pretty good. The point is that inheriting from Kecleon lets you do basically whatever you want. You can have a priority driven physical threat, but that could also be a nasty plot sweeper. Decent status moves and actual recovery mean it's also very easy to make a hard hitting tank or defensive threat. The sheer variety of kecleon sets, combined with the variance between the actual sets made this very hard to play around. Perhaps it is due to the main recipient being pheromosa at the time -- able to utilize both physical and special sets -- but I believe that Kecleon as a donor is strong enough to the point to warrant a suspect.


On Mega Gyarados
I don't have replays atm, so this will all be off historical antidote. Mega-Gyarados was undoubtably a MASSIVE threat towards the latter portion of inh7's ladder period. With sun and moon, it gained a prankster immunity thanks to it's typing. A general reduction in priority (thanks to -ate nerf) meant that its sweeper sets become less commonly contested. Shell smash + Moldbreaker was honestly a bit silly, and at +2 it could blow through even slightly prepared teams. In my usage, Sturdy, rather than solid rock, from Carracosta was the strongest ability to inherit. Though you were easily foiled by hazards, the chance to shell smash without risk in front of any offensive threat meant you could just hold gyara in the back all game, clear hazards and then 6-0 once you knew the coast was clear. All that said, I don't think it is to the point where it is too much to handle. Defensive grass types, Chesnaught in particular, could inherit regenerator or grass surge to reliably force gyarados out. The real question is whether we want that extent of check required in the metagame. I lean towards believing gyarados should stay for now. Priority options were largely unexplored the first time around, since people were so absorbed with the new pokemon and abilities. If anything will tip it over the edge for me, it's the fact that it get moldbreaker, and can decide to run a slower wincon set with taunt to just dumpster defensive teams. For example, taunt/coil/aqua tail/crunch from sviper.


Z-moves and Defensive Threats
There are two other areas I wanted to talk about that I think didn't get enough attention when inh7 was omotm. The first of those is Z-moves. In hindsight, I don't think people really appreciated the power and/or utility of z-crystals, and it's only now after lots of testing across many metagames that we realize they're daaaang good. Sure, a few were used a nukes on things like kartana or grassy surge inheritors, but the idea of using z-moves on powerful lure moves wasn't commonly utilized. Additionally, Z-status moves are something that are STILL underappreciated in most metas. Particularly in inheritance, you can gain access to ridiculous stuff like Z-happy hour or z conversion on whatever you want. Even things as simple as a crystal covering two possibilities: Z rain dance + swift swim vs offence or just z-hydro pump to nuke; z hone claws and crunch; z-encore and z-heal bell, etc... You can put these on ANYTHING in inheritance. Use it more!

Lastly, while Gen7 introduced crazy new offensive capabilities in z-moves, terrain abilities and hard hitting beasts, a bunch of defensive monsters were introduced that I believe make stall and bulky offense the best play style atm. Seemed like me, rosalyn, and anna were the only ones using this type of build. Examples of bulky new stuff that patches up some roles for stall teams: Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Grassy Surge, Buzzwole, A-Muk, Magearna, Kommo-o, fluffy. Maybe I'll go into example sets in another post, but this is turning into a ramble, so I think I'll stop here for now.

Edit:

Here's sample defensive core

Kommo-o has a very unique and surprisingly good defensive typing, along with very nice defenses. It is great at handling lots of the "elemental" attackers in the tier. Taking Starmie's moveset allows it to function as a incredibly reliable spinner. Natural Cure + Recover means it won't get worn down. Skill Swap is nice for beat annoying poison heal things. Magearna's typing compliments Kommo-o's exceptionally well and it works great at stopping most physical attackers. Really, prankster WoW + Recover just stalled way too much stuff out. Metal Burst is pretty dumb when it's on something fat enough to take hits. Celesteela acts as the setup check and general physical wall. it comfortable stops most grass surge users and is a nice EQ switchin. Psychup is actually pretty hilarious, because celesteela has the offensive stats to use any boosts. Knock off is always nice.
Kommo-o @ Leftovers (Starmie
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Scald
- Skill Swap

Magearna @ Leftovers (Sableye)
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Dazzling Gleam
- Metal Burst

Celesteela @ Leftovers (Swoobat)
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Roost
- Knock Off / Heat Wave
- Air Slash
- Psych-up


P.S. Inherit from ubers and megas? y/n
 
Last edited:
Gyarados-mega has been commonly taken into consideration when building for a while now (that set in particular has been around for more than 2 years or so), and it only ever got nerfed with time. First it lost its more stallbreaking sets as azu as a donor was banned, then a couple of incredible defensive checks were introduced in Buzzwole, Tapu-Bulu and Tapu Fini, to add to that electric got an indirect buff with new abilities (both terrain abilities and galv) and new abusers.
As it stands stand can take gyara into account quite easily and offence can prio spam until it dies, so idk why this would be broken now when it was fine before.

(owait inheritance clauses n shit nerfed prio, mb I didn't remember cuz I don plai, lel. Stil it's prob manageable)
 
Gyarados was honestly a surprise to me when I started playing INH7. It had practically no usage gen 6 as far as I remember, yet in gen 7 it was practically on every other team. This observation got me wondering why this was the case, but all I could think of is that Desolate Land is no longer allowed #FreeUber/MegaDonors, but surely it couldn't have been that much of a hindrance, right? Perhaps it was the fact that we were still missing most of our prominent Mega evolutions at the time? Either way, Gyarados is a prominent threat right now.
Under normal circumstances, I don't think Gyarados would be banworthy, but since this is a meta whose life hangs in the balance of whether the hundreds of people who use Ash teams in AG like it or not, we may have to bend over backwards just to keep the meta alive.
I'm in favor of this vague and suspiciously quoted "suspect test", so that we can at least see/theorize what the meta would be like without it, as well as hopefully generate interest in the meta again, since it's still such a great meta despite all the changes that would've been deathblows to any normal meta ;w; Although, if the discussion itself IS the "suspect", then I'd have to abstain on how I feel one way or the other about Gyarados in particular, since I'd say it's something that's at least debatable, though I'd need to jog my memory on current INH7 since it's been through quite a few changes, as well as my need of someone making a compelling argument about the Mega Shrimp.
Some other suggestions to draw popularity would be to unban some Ubers, since it would be nice to have some variety in teambuilding due to INH7 starting to suffer from the Pokebilities curse while it still had a ladder in that everyone was spamming more or less the same generic teams while the more creative players suffered due to these generic teams occupying so much of the meta.
 
Personally I'd have to say Do Not Ban for Mega Gyarados.
Admittedly I haven't really played Inheritance since this was OMotM, but I did play extensively with and against Mega Gyarados while the meta was up, plus I played it more than any other meta in past gens. So here's how I see it.
To my experience the best set this gen has been the following Carracosta set:

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Shell Smash

Sturdy guarantees that you can get a Shell Smash off if you're able to keep clear of hazards, then you tear things apart with dual STAB. Aqua Jet I've found to be the best filler over Earthquake and Substitute, because there's been a massive decline Extreme Speed users this gen with the lack of Mega Altaria and things like Mega Luc Ursaring. This means that you can out prioritise other priority users at +2 Speed to deny them revenging you at -2 Defence. Waterfall > Liquidation because after a SS you're really fast, so the clutch flinches can be awesome.

Sturdy + SS + Aqua Jet gives you a great match up vs Offence. SS + Dual STAB + Mold Breaker gives you a great match up vs Balance teams who think they can get away with just a random Unaware user to check most SS users. Waterfall Flinch + Knock Off item removal gives you some solid utility vs Stall even if they're well prepared for you. So that's what makes it an awesome pokemon in the meta, it's extremely reliable and can perform extremely well against any play style. What's interesting though is that Stall is its worse match up this gen.

You see what made Mega Gyarados so strong against Stall teams last gen was the Azumaril set, which is banned this gen (*to be brought up again later*). For those who don't know you'd obviously go BD into Waterfall + Knock Off with Mold Breaker which just obliterated Stall because they relied on Unaware to stop BD sweepers. Lastly you'd have Aqua Jet in the back pocket so you weren't eaten alive by offence. The Azumaril Mega Gyarados set is what ultimately led to the ironically ultimate counter in Murkrow Azumaril becoming popular. This gen, not only is Murkrow Tapu Fini a flat upgrade to Azumaril, to me it's almost a staple on Stall for its ability to blanket check physical attackers unlike anything else (I did a post on it last page if you wanna check it out). But not only is Murkrow Tapu Fini a thing, Azumaril Mega Gyarados isn't, so Stall really doesn't struggle with it too much so long as they have a couple soft checks. Usually a bulky Grass type can take a +2 Knock Off and return KO with their Grass STAB while Mega Gyara is at -2. Beak Blast is also a thing that is really common on Stall and is guaranteed to Burn Gyarados even if the user dies. For example, Beak Blast Skarmory has a really good chance of 1v1ing a boosted Mega Gyara.

0 Atk Skarmory Beak Blast vs. -2 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 166-196 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 205-243 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker burned Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 84-100 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Second hit Waterfall > Knock Off because Skarm is now item less. So Mega Gyarados has the slimmest of chances at a 2HKO if Skarm hasn't been chipped. Even if we assume though that the Gyarados wins because either SR was up with high rolls or it got a Waterfall flinch, you're still a burned Gyarados at only +2 that can now be handled by any random physical wall.

And that's just a few options stall has. The fact is that a strong and well prepared stall team can deal with Mega Gyarados reasonably comfortably. What made Mega Gyarados hot topic for a possible suspect towards the end of last gen was that it had the Shell Smash sets and the Belly Drum with no donor reveal clause, meaning you could never really be sure whether your Stall team was gonna get 6-0ed, or your offence team. This gen you can be pretty sure that a competent Stall player can handle a SS Gyarados, and offensive or balance teams at least know what's coming for them, and don't get screwed assuming it's BD.
Plus it's not like Offence and Balance don't have their answers. Bulky Grass types and particularly Tapu Bulu fit in on Balance to take out Gyara, or Beak Blast users. And however offence lacks Pixie Speed this gen you've still got Mega Pinsir and other powerful E-Speed users. Fake Out too. Plus it's hardest to set up against offence if you keep hazards up. Not only that but each playstyle has something they struggle against more than Mega Gyarados. Just off the top of my head I'd probably say that E-Speed Mega Pinsir and Sheer Force Gengar are probably scarier in general for Offence and Stall respectively, though don't quote me on that, not too much thought went into it. Also to clarify I don't think that those things are ban worthy either.

Mega Gyarados is still an amazing pokemon capable of putting in work what ever the match up. But it is far from without counter play, and every team and play style should know what Gyarados is doing and how they can stop it.

------------------------------

Now I'm just gonna touch on this quickly because I spent more time writing about Gyarados than I intended but here goes.
nv
First thing is that I tried to use last gen's Scrafty Mega Medicham set on DragonHeaven but it said my Medicham set was illegal. Now I could have just potatoed and I'm missing something but it could also mean that Mega Medicham is banned which looking at last gen and this gen's ban list I'm not sure was the intention.
But in looking at this gen's ban list it reminded me of scpinion's banning philosophy which was reasonably controversial at the time. Basically it banned pokemon with broken moves or abilities when donated from being donors, instead of just banning the broken move or ability like in previous gens. Specifically as an example, Azumaril, Diggersby and Medicham are banned from being donors as opposed to Huge/Pure Power being banned. This restricts a lot more than just the broken element, like the aforementioned Azumaril Mega Gyarados from last gen (Which for the record isn't as strong as I make it out to be thanks to the new donor reveal clause, so don't let that influence your philosophy), but it also restricts a lot of other things, while banning more things in total than it would seem necessary. There's a bunch of discussion about it on page 4 if you wanna check it out. Basically just asking if you plan on staying consistent with all that, as I understand that you're required to uphold things like the donor reveal mechanic, but the way things have been banned seemed to be solely up to scpinion before he disappeared.

Also just before I go. If I'm not mistaken this is the first time Mega Mawile has been legal in Inheritance. Thoughts?
 
Hi nv invited me again in this thread so before I could drop something from Gyarados's issue, I'm gonna post some fun sets first:
+

Venusaur (Cradily) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 232 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Recover
- Stealth Rock

Not really metagame defining or a recognized defensive threat or anything, this Pokemon is really just so fun to use, and it apparently became "something" out of a gimmick.

It was the first thing I've came up in this metagame, and it turned out to be great. It blanket checks a good portion of the meta (and hard stops most Electric types and Water types), and this spread is a fine check against the once running rampant Pheromosa, only 3HKOed by Ibeam or Flamethrower, and is still only 2HKOed after the rocks up. However, it is very much prone to prior damage since you would switch it in to a lot of stuff. With Cradily, Venusaur gets better recovery option in Recover, while maintaining the two important dual stabs. SR, on the other hand, was very much a filler, and rounds up the great utility of Venusaur well.
+
Sorry no smaller sprites for Buzzwole ://

Buzzwole (Arcanine)@ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Close Combat
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz

One of the most interesting sets that no one really have used. It's titanic bulk makes it one of the best physical walls in the meta, and hard checks the ever common SmashTran. Apparently, it also is a fine check to Smash Gyarados, which is really one of my keys to stop that threat. It's not too passive either, as uninvested 139 Atk is still no joke, and hits so hard with powerful CCs and Flare Blitzes. Morning Sun makes it more annoying, and Will-o-Wisp is just awesome to stop more physical threats. Bad SpD is Bad though.

These were some of my main stuff when this OM was around. Hope you have fun with them and looking forward to play this fun OM again :).

PS: Oh try Tapu Koko (Ursaring) too, it's fun.
 
Likes: nv
I tried to use last gen's Scrafty Mega Medicham set on DragonHeaven but it said my Medicham set was illegal. Now I could have just potatoed and I'm missing something but it could also mean that Mega Medicham is banned which looking at last gen and this gen's ban list I'm not sure was the intention.
I don't know the set but as far as I know you can use Mega Medicham as a receiver on ROM.
 

drampa's grandpa

formerly The Ruins of Alpha
Personally I'd have to say Do Not Ban for Mega Gyarados.
Admittedly I haven't really played Inheritance since this was OMotM, but I did play extensively with and against Mega Gyarados while the meta was up, plus I played it more than any other meta in past gens. So here's how I see it.
To my experience the best set this gen has been the following Carracosta set:

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Shell Smash

Sturdy guarantees that you can get a Shell Smash off if you're able to keep clear of hazards, then you tear things apart with dual STAB. Aqua Jet I've found to be the best filler over Earthquake and Substitute, because there's been a massive decline Extreme Speed users this gen with the lack of Mega Altaria and things like Mega Luc Ursaring. This means that you can out prioritise other priority users at +2 Speed to deny them revenging you at -2 Defence. Waterfall > Liquidation because after a SS you're really fast, so the clutch flinches can be awesome.

Sturdy + SS + Aqua Jet gives you a great match up vs Offence. SS + Dual STAB + Mold Breaker gives you a great match up vs Balance teams who think they can get away with just a random Unaware user to check most SS users. Waterfall Flinch + Knock Off item removal gives you some solid utility vs Stall even if they're well prepared for you. So that's what makes it an awesome pokemon in the meta, it's extremely reliable and can perform extremely well against any play style. What's interesting though is that Stall is its worse match up this gen.

You see what made Mega Gyarados so strong against Stall teams last gen was the Azumaril set, which is banned this gen (*to be brought up again later*). For those who don't know you'd obviously go BD into Waterfall + Knock Off with Mold Breaker which just obliterated Stall because they relied on Unaware to stop BD sweepers. Lastly you'd have Aqua Jet in the back pocket so you weren't eaten alive by offence. The Azumaril Mega Gyarados set is what ultimately led to the ironically ultimate counter in Murkrow Azumaril becoming popular. This gen, not only is Murkrow Tapu Fini a flat upgrade to Azumaril, to me it's almost a staple on Stall for its ability to blanket check physical attackers unlike anything else (I did a post on it last page if you wanna check it out). But not only is Murkrow Tapu Fini a thing, Azumaril Mega Gyarados isn't, so Stall really doesn't struggle with it too much so long as they have a couple soft checks. Usually a bulky Grass type can take a +2 Knock Off and return KO with their Grass STAB while Mega Gyara is at -2. Beak Blast is also a thing that is really common on Stall and is guaranteed to Burn Gyarados even if the user dies. For example, Beak Blast Skarmory has a really good chance of 1v1ing a boosted Mega Gyara.

0 Atk Skarmory Beak Blast vs. -2 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados-Mega: 166-196 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 205-243 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker burned Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 84-100 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Second hit Waterfall > Knock Off because Skarm is now item less. So Mega Gyarados has the slimmest of chances at a 2HKO if Skarm hasn't been chipped. Even if we assume though that the Gyarados wins because either SR was up with high rolls or it got a Waterfall flinch, you're still a burned Gyarados at only +2 that can now be handled by any random physical wall.

And that's just a few options stall has. The fact is that a strong and well prepared stall team can deal with Mega Gyarados reasonably comfortably. What made Mega Gyarados hot topic for a possible suspect towards the end of last gen was that it had the Shell Smash sets and the Belly Drum with no donor reveal clause, meaning you could never really be sure whether your Stall team was gonna get 6-0ed, or your offence team. This gen you can be pretty sure that a competent Stall player can handle a SS Gyarados, and offensive or balance teams at least know what's coming for them, and don't get screwed assuming it's BD.
Plus it's not like Offence and Balance don't have their answers. Bulky Grass types and particularly Tapu Bulu fit in on Balance to take out Gyara, or Beak Blast users. And however offence lacks Pixie Speed this gen you've still got Mega Pinsir and other powerful E-Speed users. Fake Out too. Plus it's hardest to set up against offence if you keep hazards up. Not only that but each playstyle has something they struggle against more than Mega Gyarados. Just off the top of my head I'd probably say that E-Speed Mega Pinsir and Sheer Force Gengar are probably scarier in general for Offence and Stall respectively, though don't quote me on that, not too much thought went into it. Also to clarify I don't think that those things are ban worthy either.

Mega Gyarados is still an amazing pokemon capable of putting in work what ever the match up. But it is far from without counter play, and every team and play style should know what Gyarados is doing and how they can stop it.

------------------------------

Now I'm just gonna touch on this quickly because I spent more time writing about Gyarados than I intended but here goes.
nv
First thing is that I tried to use last gen's Scrafty Mega Medicham set on DragonHeaven but it said my Medicham set was illegal. Now I could have just potatoed and I'm missing something but it could also mean that Mega Medicham is banned which looking at last gen and this gen's ban list I'm not sure was the intention.
But in looking at this gen's ban list it reminded me of scpinion's banning philosophy which was reasonably controversial at the time. Basically it banned pokemon with broken moves or abilities when donated from being donors, instead of just banning the broken move or ability like in previous gens. Specifically as an example, Azumaril, Diggersby and Medicham are banned from being donors as opposed to Huge/Pure Power being banned. This restricts a lot more than just the broken element, like the aforementioned Azumaril Mega Gyarados from last gen (Which for the record isn't as strong as I make it out to be thanks to the new donor reveal clause, so don't let that influence your philosophy), but it also restricts a lot of other things, while banning more things in total than it would seem necessary. There's a bunch of discussion about it on page 4 if you wanna check it out. Basically just asking if you plan on staying consistent with all that, as I understand that you're required to uphold things like the donor reveal mechanic, but the way things have been banned seemed to be solely up to scpinion before he disappeared.

Also just before I go. If I'm not mistaken this is the first time Mega Mawile has been legal in Inheritance. Thoughts?
I agree with looking back at Scp's policy decisions, but I'm nervous about having it be a topic of discussion here because last time it seriously derailed the thread. I never liked the way we banned things though, I feel out makes things more complicated but lets us use less stuff.
 
I'm not gonna talk about Mega Gyarados currently because I think there is a bigger issue at the moment, and that is scpinion's banning policy. Anyone who cares about Inheritance knows this should be changed. My argument is in these posts...

Yeah. Banning donors because it's a meta where donor is a basis isn't a good decision I think. A lot of things benefit from those donors you banned JUST because it has a broken Ability, move, etc. Why not ban those broken elements instead of ban the entire donor? There are WAY too many unnecessary nerfs just because of this "ban must be based on donors because it's Inheritance" thing. And banning Abilities and Moves aren't even a complex ban.
Then why not ban Dynamic Punch and Chatter? The mechanics of the moves are the source of it's brokeness, not what it inherit from. No need to pointlessly ban three evolutionary line (Golurk, Machamp, Chatot) because by doing so, you're nerfing many mons pointlessly because many of the mons benefit from those mons (especially Chatot's).

Besides, we banned Abilities anyway instead of donors, so why not moves?
 
Long-time Inheritance players will remember a really popular offense team on the very first ladder that used SubSmash Gyarados (and some other BS like Mega Lucario Excadrill *shudders*). It's always been a good way to roll over Unaware walls but I've found it underwhelming against offense, at least in the past. Maybe the meta is less Extreme Speed trigger-happy these days? If not, it seems rather easy to break Sturdy and revenge kill with priority. This seems like an important point, though:
then a couple of incredible defensive checks were introduced in Buzzwole, Tapu-Bulu and Tapu Fini
Carracosta's movepool has no real way to circumvent these from what I can tell. I'd be interested to see how effective similar donors are. Here's something off the top of my head:

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell/Night Slash
- Aerial Ace
- Poison Jab

Weaker STAB but better coverage. Also has the unique option of staying non-Mega for the Tough Claws boost and Aerial Ace STAB, if Mold Breaker isn't required to break Unaware or Fur Coat. Here's some calcs for the worst case scenarios on those counters:

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 376-444 (89.9 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Gyarados Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 624-736 (149.2 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 286-338 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Gyarados Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 316-374 (91.8 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 572-676 (166.2 - 196.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Gyarados Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 632-748 (183.7 - 217.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Gyarados Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 356-422 (103.4 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't know how popular these three are but I'd be interested to see some non-Carracosta sets for MGyara.