"It doesn't affect Shedinja" - OU RMT

Alchemator

my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hello and welcome to my third RMT!

Team at a Glance




Main Strategy

What this team seeks to achieve is a sweep, obviously. This comes from a single turn gained by using Shedinja as a pivot with its many immunities.

Team Building Process

I wanted to build a team around Shedinja, so the first pokemon was mandatory:

I then tried to think of a pokemon that resisted most (if not all) of Shedinja's weaknesses. I choose Heatran especially because of the boost it gets from fire moves that Shedinja lures in.

I was worried about Heatran's gaping 4x Ground weakness and I needed a lead, who better to fit the bill than Gliscor?

With these two pokemon I still lacked a resistance to rock, so I looked for a pokemon with a 4x rock resistance whilst packing a punch. I choose Lucario (I don't think there was an alternative :P)

I then concentrated on what Shedinja was weak to other than typing. Quite obviously I needed a spinner who gave some good resistances to my team. I choose Starmie for its Fire and Fighting type resistances
I then thought about weather, I wanted a pokemon with good resistances that could change the weather in favour to itself. I chose kingdra for its 4x fire resistance among others.


An In-Depth Look


Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252HP/40Def/216Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- U-Turn
- Earthquake

Gliscor's Purpose
To set up rocks at the beginning and usually U-turn out from there. I usually bring him in only when he can force the opposing pokemon out or directly threaten the opposition. If I'm in a tight spot Gliscor is the first poke I switch in, ultimately saccing him.

Moves
Stealth Rock - What sort of team could do without Rocks?
Taunt - This is probably the most expendable move on the set, but I sometimes use it for stopping status mid-game (which Shedinja hates obviously)
U-Turn - This allows Gliscor to scout the opponent and just get a bit of damage on them
Earthquake - Gliscor's main STAB. It hurts things. How else can I explain it?




Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4HP/252Sp.Atk/252Spe
- Overheat
- HP Grass
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower

Heatran's Purpose
I would say that Heatran is the most threatening pokemon on the team, it comes in early/mid-game and kills something with Overheat or another move if I predict correctly and then gets out until Late-game where it usually cleans up. This specs set deserves much more use than it gets at the moment.

Moves
Overheat - This is INCREDIBLY powerful, almost anything switching into this move dies (it did 70% to a Latias once, no crit). Early game I usually fire off an Overheat to scout, usually nabbing a KO or crippling a pokemon
HP Grass - This is mandatory on a set that hates Swampert, guaranteeing an OHKO
Earth Power - For opposing Heatran
Flamethrower - When I know the opponent's roster (and it's favourable towards me) I come in late-game and clean up with this still insanely powerful move.




Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch

Lucario's purpose
Lucario is the first of my two true "One-turners". Everybody who has been involved in competitive battling knows the power of Swords Dance Lucario, but where do you get the turn to Swords Dance in a metagame that is so well prepared for it? This is where Shedinja comes in. It attracts dark and rock type attacks that Lucario loves to take nothing from and set up as they switch out. Lucario wreaks havoc from there...

Moves
Swords Dance - A fantastic boosting move. This is where the chaos starts
Close Combat - Who can turn down a 180BP move? Something is going to die
Extremespeed - Lucario isn't the fastest of pokemon, and the strongest priority move in the game is welcome in its moveset
Ice Punch - Takes out that pesky Gliscor which I have seen cropping up recently...




Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Lonely
EVs: 252Atk/240Sp.Atk/16Spe
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Waterfall
- Draco Meteor

Kingdra's purpose
Kingdra is the second of my "one-turners". Kingdra is probably the most deadly of the rain dance sweepers with it's above average stats and powerful dual STABs. Sandstorm is the bane of Shedinja in OU and I needed some way of getting rid of it. What better than a pokemon that can not only change the weather but threaten Tyranitar and Hippowdon?

Moves
Rain Dance - Gives Kingdra the speed boost it needs and the power boost to its water type attacks
Hydro Pump - An incredible move in the rain, it takes down most physical walls that like to stall out my Waterfall
Waterfall - A less powerful, physical version of Hydro pump. It takes on Blissey who would wall this set otherwise
Draco Meteor - Most things are going to die facing this. 'Nuff said.




Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 136 HP/156Def/216Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Starmie's purpose
Every team built around the ghostly cicada shell needs a spinner and starmie gave me the resistances I need and also serves as a make-shift revenge killer with its speed. The EV spread allows it to survive a +1 Gyarados Earthquake and OHKO back with Thunderbolt

Moves
Rapid Spin - Obligatory for the survival of Shedinja
Surf - Starmie's main STAB. I might replace it for Hydro Pump, any suggestions?
Thunderbolt - First half of the "Boltbeam" duo, it murders Gyarados to no end.
Ice Beam - I used to have Recover here but Salamence became too much of a problem so I switched to Ice Beam, completeing the "Boltbeam" duo of coverage




The Best Pokemon Ever @ Focus Sash
Ability : Wonder Guard
Nature: Lonely
EVs: 252Atk/252Spe
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- X-Scissor
- Protect

Shedinja's purpose
Shedinja is undoubtedly the core of this team, using its immunites to lure in its counters for team-mates to set up on. Shedinja also poses a threat in itself after a Swords Dance or two, some players even giving up straight away realising they cannot defeat something with 1hp. The world is drastically underprepared for this, and I like it xD

Moves
Swords Dance - Gives Shedinja some oomph
Shadow Sneak - Easily takes down Gengar switch-ins, 2hkoes Infernape after a Swords Dance (surviving thanks to sash)
X-Scissor - Gives coverage against Normal Types
Protect - Allows me to go to the correct pokemon on the team and scouts out whether the opponent is a threat to Shedinja.


Thanks much for the threat list:
Offensive Threats
Aerodactyl : Starmie, Kingdra
---
Alakazam : Shedinja OHKOs at +2 with impunity to attacks

---
Azelf : Mainly these things set up rocks and go boom. Gliscor survives the explosion

---
Breloom : If the set has leech seed it becomes difficult. Otherwise Shedinja walls

---
Dragonite : Starmie outspeeds and OHKOs with Ice Beam (I have been told otherwise but you hardly see D-nite. Anyway Mence does NOT outclass him... but let's not get into that here...)

---
Dugtrio : Shedinja encourages it to use Sucker Punch so I switch and set up with someone

---
Electivire : I never see this but Gliscor could take it probably

---
Empoleon : Shedinja walls pretty much every set.

---
Flygon :
If it's raining Kingdra kills. Otherwise it's a pain
---
Gengar :
Shedinja :P
---
Gyarados : Starmie survives a +1 EQ and OHKOs with T-Bolt

---
Heatran : Gliscor, My own Heatran, Starmie, Kingdra, Lucario when it [Heatran] isn't scarfed

---
Heracross : Most things when they're set up (duh)

---
Infernape : Shedinja 2hkoes with Shadow Sneak - SDING ON THE SWITCH. I do have some prediction skills y'know

---
Jirachi : Heatran does a number with Overheat. Gliscor also hurts it.

---
Jolteon : Shedinja switches in with impunity to T-Bolt as does Gliscor

---
Kingdra : Shedinja walls this to no end

---
Latias : Shedinja also walls this and can super-effectively hit Latias

---
Lucario : Shedinja walls those lacking Stone Edge and Crunch but can't do much back. Gliscor can take it on in the absence of Ice Punch

---
Machamp : Anything set up can kill this. Usually I go to Gliscor to take the attacks though

---
Magnezone: Shedinja can set up on it. Lucario kills with CC. Gliscor with EQ

---
Mamoswine : Shedinja on ones that lack SE. Heatran can catch on the switch, Lucario hurts it.

---
Metagross : Gliscor, Heatran

---
Porygon-Z : It usually can't hurt Shedinja (choiced). I can go to Gliscor to lure Ice Beam then go to Heatran to Overheat as it switches

---
Rhyperior : Starmie, Kingdra, Lucario.

---
Salamence : Problems. If I get it locked into Outrage I can set up with Sheddy.

---
Scizor : HUGE SCIZOR WEAKNESS!... Not. Heatran pwns it.

---
Starmie : My own Starmie can take it on. Shedinja can also.

---
Togekiss : Who doesn't hate this thing?

---
Tyranitar : Take it out with Starmie/Kingdra/Lucario and change the weather A.S.A.P

---
Weavile : Lucario.

---
Yanmega : Starmie can take on non-speed boost versions. Shedinja walls as far as I know (EDIT, Air Slash damn xD. But you hardly see this. Priority hurts it though)


Defensive Threat List:

Blissey : Lucario,Kingdra

---
Bronzong : Lucario, Shedinja,Heatran

---
Celebi : Heatran, Gliscor (U-Turn),Shedinja

---
Cresselia : Gliscor - Shedinja.

---
Donphan : Starmie/Kingdra

---
Forretress : Heatran obviously

---
Gliscor :Starmie, Lucario on the switch, Kingdra

---
Hippowdon : Kingdra,Starmie

---
Skarmory : Heatran

---
Snorlax : Lucario

---
Suicune
: If it hasn't Calm Minded too much Starmie can dent it. Lucario hurts with Close Combat, Shedinja walls.

---
Swampert : I haven't actually seen many of these so far (surprising eh??) but Shedinja can wall non-roar versions that lack Stone Edge and Kingdra can hurt it with Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump in the rain

---
Tentacruel : Gliscor with EQ

---
Vaporeon : Shedinja can wall but has to be careful of status

---
Zapdos : Shedinja goes in on the Thunderbolt luring a Heat Wave as I go to Heatran and Heatran kills it xD god I love my team for that.


Btw I'm very... idk. But yellow is hardly a major problem. It's that either because it's a bit of a pain or I haven't faced it so I don't know how much it affects me.
 
Right away I see a huge Scizor weakness.

And also..

[Shadow Sneak - Easily takes down Gengar switch-ins, 2hkoes Infernape after a Swords Dance (surviving thanks to sash)]


Infernape vs Shed

Infernape uses fire move, Shed uses SD. survives with sash.

Shed uses Shadow Sneak, Infernape lives. Infernape uses fire move, Shed dies.

How does Shedinja get 2 hits in? I don't see it.
 
i dont see the HUGE aformentioned scizor weakness. Every pokemon on his team other than gliscor resists scizors bullet punch which is its biggest thread and scarftran outspeeds and destroys scizor without question
 
Shed switches in, wish/etc. move is used.
Shed uses SD, Infernape switches in.
Shed uses Sneak, Infenape uses... etc.
Risky, kinda gimmicky, but that's shedinja for you...

Not to mention odds are, he'll probably just switch to heatran. The Shadow Sneak is more like a back up plan.

And lastly, All these latias running around = VERY Little Infernape

I'll probably edit back with a full rating later.

P.S. You're supposed to have suggestions when making a full rating on how to solve the problem. Not just state the problem.

EDIT FOR BELOW:
OMG! This is a shedinja based team. It's designed to use shedinja >_>... You don't change that. Even if shedinja is the worst pokemon in the game, he felt like making a shedinja based team...

Full rating:
NOTE: Please test my ratings before permanetly adding them (it bugs me when people don't). As I just and looking at it on paper (figuratively), it could really suck in practice.
Gliscor @ Leftovers
It's being gay and won't remove this >_<
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252HP/40Def/216Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- U-Turn
- Earthquake
Leading gliscor... I use it and it works. No issues with me.

Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4HP/252Sp.Atk/252Spe
- Overheat
- HP Grass
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
Standard... I personally run Dragon Pulse over Flamethrower for Latias, but it's your choice really.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extremespeed
- Ice Punch
Standard lucario... Consider the switch to a CS lucario as A) You currently have two sword dancers (Sheddy). B) You currently have two wall breakers (Kingdra). C) You lack a revenge killer.


Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Lonely
EVs: 252Atk/240Sp.Atk/16Spe
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Waterfall
- Draco Meteor
And I thought I was the only one to use this set... I love this set... It's a beast and eats walls like no tomorrow. Currently this is my favorite set on my favorite pokemon.


Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 136 HP/156Def/216Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
No problems here, covers SR with good bulky water coverage and STAB...

The Best Pokemon Ever @ Focus Sash
Ability : Wonder Guard
Nature: Lonely
EVs: 252Atk/252Spe
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- X-Scissor
- Protect

Ok Sheddy... I'd suggest switching to the CB set for your team. Trick can really screw with teams that you're having trouble with. Mostly I'm talking about trick room/stall teams, which would give you an ability to sweep later. I'd suggest Trick/X-Scissor/Sucker Punch/Will-O-Wisp since it gives you some minor heatran cover with Sucker Punch. Lonely nature and Max/Max/4def EV spread. Note that this was taken from the analysis and posted here since we're all lazy and appreciate the ability to be lazy.
So that's it! Please rate! Threat list coming up.

EDIT - I can't find a good threat list can someone give me a link maybe? Thanks
Offensive Threat List
Defensive Threat List
EDIT: Use the threat list below... It's newer.
 
Shedinja is the weakest Pokémon on your team. Example:

X switched in Shedinja!
Y switched in Tyranitar!
Tyranitar's Sand Stream conjured up a Sandstorm!
Shedinja is buffeted by the Sandstorm!

I would consider swapping him for Ninjask, should you want to stay "within the family". Substitute with Ninjask, boost your Speed a couple of turns, and Baton Pass.
 
What the hell are you talking about with the Scizor weakness? 5 pokes are resistant to bullet punch, and none suffer from over 50% damage from it. 1 poke takes super-effective from U-turn. 2 pokes are weak to Superpower, but will rape it before Scizor can Superpower, and only two are weak to Pursuit. Scizor is just begging for Kingdra to setup on him. The only real problem that I see with Scizor is pursuiting Sheddy, but I'm going to assume that if you've already seen Scizor, you're going to keep Sheddy safe from pursuit.

Past that, your Starmie really wants Recover, so that it can keep the rocks off while staying at a high enough health to stop Gyarados/Mence. So, since bolt beam seems so important, why not trade surf for recover, as Kingdra will easily rape any fire types with its' 4 times resist?

Also, how exactly is ice punch going to hit Gliscor? With Lucario being such a threat, every Gliscor is going to outspeed your Adamant Lucario, and most will outspeed even if it's jolly. So, i would advise replacing ice punch with crunch since I can see Cresselia being a problem since no one but Sheddy can provide a super-effective stab.

EDIT:

If you don't know how to rate people, don't. I'm looking at you, Terywj, danoziami, blazinazin, JFO, and pokerade. When citing a weakness, state how to fix it, or don't waste your time.

danoziami, that is why he has a Rain Dance Kingdra. It can change the weather so that Sheddy doesn't die. By the way, props on including Rain Dance Kingdra as it really does patch up your weather hole!

Also, here's a great threat list courtesy of Unholy Calamity

Threat List
------------------------------------------------------------------
  • Green means they are not a problem for me.
  • Orange means they can cause a bit of trouble.
  • Red means they are very difficult to take down.
Offensive Threats
Aerodactyl :

---
Alakazam :

---
Azelf :

---
Breloom :

---
Dragonite :

---
Dugtrio :

---
Electivire :

---
Empoleon :

---
Flygon :

---
Gengar :

---
Gyarados :

---
Heatran :

---
Heracross :

---
Infernape :

---
Jirachi :

---
Jolteon :

---
Kingdra :

---
Latias :

---
Lucario :

---
Machamp :

---
Magnezone:

---
Mamoswine :

---
Metagross :

---
Porygon-Z :

---
Rhyperior :

---
Salamence :

---
Scizor :

---
Starmie :

---
Togekiss :

---
Tyranitar :

---
Weavile :

---
Yanmega :


Defensive Threat List:

Blissey :

---
Bronzong :

---
Celebi :

---
Cresselia :

---
Donphan :

---
Forretress :

---
Gliscor :

---
Hippowdon :

---
Skarmory :

---
Snorlax :

---
Suicune
:

---
Swampert :

---
Tentacruel :

---
Vaporeon :

---
Zapdos :

---
 
Your Shedinja's Shadow Sneaking 2HKO'ing Infernape is risky.

Yeah you don't have a huge Scizor weakness, as someone said beforehand.

-Terywj
 
For first, I would replace Overheat on Heatran for Fire Blast. Fire Blast has enough power to even 2OHKO Blissey after Flash Fire boost, which is more then enough. But that's not the main reason. Imagine that you use Overheat, special attacks drops and Salamence switches in. It looks not bad - it looks really, really bad. One Dragon Dance and nothing can stop Salamence on your team as Gliscor doesn't have Ice Fang to seriously dent Salamence. And Gliscor as a lead may die too early. But I would definately put somewhere Ice Fang on Gliscor. It's your only way to stop Salamence. Swampert in Gliscor spot wouldn't be bad, but he won't stop most Stealth Rock user from throwing rocks on battlefield like Gliscor. About Salamence again - maybe Shadow Sneak + ES from both Lucario will dent it, but something will die earlier for sure.

Maybe you should think about using Forretress in a place of Starmie just to have something to absorb those Outrages ? Heatran is bulky, but I don't think bulky enough to take them especially when it doesn't even have HP Ice or Dragon Pulse to seriously hurt Salamence. Overheat will hit, but it doesn't have perfect accuracy, so it's risky. I think something like this would be nice. Credits for chenman for quite interesting set and which could easily lure those Heatran and Infernapes which troubles your Shedinja. If Gyarados troubles you (and it should after replacing Starmie) try to find place for HP Electric on Kingdra. It's bulky enough to take one hit and OHKO back Gyarados with SR up.

Here's my lure forretress that I've been using to eliminate shizzle like Magnezone, Infernape and Heatran, as they are really annoying for my team

Forretress @ Expert Belt
Sturdy
252 HP/172 Atk/84 SpD
Relaxed
-Substitute
-Earthquake
-Payback/Explosion
-Spikes/Toxic Spikes

Pretty simple stuff; bring forry in on something he isn't afraid of, Sub on the switch. Depending on what they bring in, use the right move. If it is something weak to EQ (notably Heatran/Magnezone/Infernape), proceed to kick their ass. With SR down, Scarf Heatran and 176 HP Magnezone will be KOed by the Expert Belt EQ, while Infernape has a 80% chance of getting KOed. Meanwhile, if Rotom-A comes in, you can get a clean 2hko against the standard Rotom-A with lefties 96% of the time, while the 84 SpD EVs allow you to survive a max SpA, unboosted Thunderbolt after SR and a Substitute. Payback also allows you to deal with various pokemon from Gengar to Latias as well. If these ghosts/psychics don't particularly faze you, Explosion will help stop the likes of Gyarados and Salamence from setting up in your face, KOing them after an Intimidate. The last slow goes to an entry hazard of your choice (SR isn't included because you need it for kills), and you can use these entry hazards when you don't feel particularly pressured.

Keep in mind this Forry's main goal is being the ultimate lure (heatran/mag always switch in); entry hazards are almost secondary.
Just put in the last slot Rapid Spin and it's fine. And thanks to Substitute Magnezone doesn't beat your Forry, so you don't need to worry about it. And you have Kingdra and Heatran to absorb those fire attacks, so I don't think one more fire weak will trouble you that much, especially when you consider changing Gliscor on Swampert and when you say that you don't need Taunt that much on it.

And one last thing - Change Ice Punch for Crunch on Lucario. All Gliscor outspeeds you anyway, even with max speed and jolly nature as standard right now 216 Speed Jolly EVs guarrantee outspeeding even Max Speed Jolly Lucario. And with Adamant you can only use ExtremeSpeed before your Lucario dies from Earthquake. And with Ice Punch much more pokemon walls you like Cresselia, Gyarados, Slowbro and even defensive Rotom forms. Or consider Stone Edge if defensive Gyarados will start to be annoying. Ice Punch has worse coverage.

And no, Shedinja doesn't require two rapid spinners. Most users of Stealth Rock are suicide leads or set up SR just once, even if they're bulkier and just wasting one more slot for Rapid Spinner is bad idea.

I guess that's it. I hope that helps. Props for using Shedinja and good luck with your team ;).
 
hmm i think the way you are setting up shedinja is pretty good, i just have two comments

as noted previously the two main threats to shedinja are entry hazards and inclement weather. you cite starmie and kingdra as your solutions to these problems, respectively. however, as your team stands, it will be difficult to keep these coming back. starmie and kingdra both lack reliable recovery, and leftovers will not be enough to help starmie out. and if they have a spin blocker (im looking at you scarf rotom) starmies gonna be forced out and back in a lot. kingdra will be taking damage very fast from life orb+whatever they throw, so kingdra die + tyranitar/hippowdon come in=dead shedinja fast.

as for the scizor, i think what pokerade was referring to was the pursuit weakness. shedinja absoultely dies to scizor with pursuit, while starmie is also hit hard with either pursuit or u-turn.

but yea i like this team a lot, i personally think shedinja is underestimated, though its speed will let you down a lot.
 
hmm...

i remember playing this team earlier. i also remember losing to it. the element of suprise of some of your pokemon is what really got to me, such as your starmie surviving a +2 earthquake from gyarados and an earthquake from my flygon.

anyways the biggest problem I see with your team is the lack of speed. starmie is the only thing in this classified as "fast." thats why i would consider using a scarftran over a specs tran, since lets face it about 2/3's of the ou metagame outspeeds it, and the only thing that makes it a threat is the insane amount of damage its capable of doing.

i dont see how you counter weather teams solely by using rain dance on kingdra. a smart player would just switch out and bring the desired weather back in later whether it be hail or sandstorm. i would like to see something like dugtrio to easily take out tyranitar, or even something like scizor for a nice check to both tyranitar and abomasnow.

the defensive rotom formes really shit on this team as well. they have plenty of switch ins into starmie, gliscor, and lucario. they also block rapid spin which really fucks over shedninja. as mentioned above a scizor would be a nice addition since it can pursuit a rotom trying to escape, allowing for starmie to come back in and rapid spin.

anyways regarding other comments why is everyone on his ass about the infernape comment when he has a starmie? it's not like he's using shedninja as an infernape counter anyway, he's just saying if he can get a sd boost it can be 2hko'd.
 
First of all, Dragonite. Starmie can't OHKO most Dragonite sets (which tend to be bulky, otherwise people would just use Salamence) with a fair-ish 299 special attack. Dragonite's tend to have about 240-250 speed if it is a bulky DD-Nite, so after one DD, Outrage will really pack a punch. Also, most bulky DD-Nites will easily roost off ice beams... You would have to get lucky with freeze. However, this isn't really a weakness, since Lucario or Shedinja can come in whilst Dragonite is using Outrage. Just watch out for Fire Punch.

Also, what about Protect on Shedinja? I don't really see what the use is. He doesn't need to stall for lefties recovery or anything like that, and using Protect will only help the opponment lure in Pursuiters. I would definately go with Will-O-Wisp, since at least Shedinja can leave a "parting gift" to pursuit users like Tyranitar or Scizor, crippling them for the rest of the game. None of your other pokemon have a status inflicting move, which seriously compramises your ability to win battles.
 

Alchemator

my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Threat list is up (that isn't too late is it?)

What I was basically thinking about with Protect (and it has helped me before) is my problems about switching. I also find that the most common switch-ins to Sheddy are Heatran/Infernape (for obvious reasons) and they are both immune to Will-O-Wisp although I'll give it a try :)

I'll test Ice Fang over Taunt on Gliscor. Other lead Gliscors have been really annoying me recently so thanks for the suggestions.

I'll test Recover over Surf though I hardly use it. Any comments on maybe Hydro Pump there?

And as to comments about weather changers. I usually find that most weather changers are leads (Hippo,Abomasnow) and only TTar is used otherwise. When I see a weather-changing lead I keep Sheddy hidden so they won't know the importance of their weather poke. Tyranitar is tough but give me a break it is Shedinja we're talking about. And I made sure that almost every other pokemon on my team can take it on too.

I'll test Fire Blast over Overheat on Heatran and Dragon Pulse over Flamethrower. I'm keeping specs though, it gives me some originality.

I'm somewhat reluctant to make Lucario scarfed but I'll test it anyway. I'll also test Crunch on the SD set And thanks for all the helpful comments I appreciate it ;)
 
Dugtrio : Shedinja encourages it to use Sucker Punch so I switch and set up with someone
I see a problem with this comment. Shedinja can't swap out on Dugtrio due Dugtrio's ability.
I won't deal with the rest, since I'm pretty bad at rating.
 
Hey there,

I've tried similar concepts before, mostly a Reversal Heracross who needs the weather clear and hates Toxic Spikes and I'll just point out that while Kingdra is a great option (exactly the one I used), Tyranitar can still switch out and come back another day changing the weather back after Kingdra is dead, Hippowdon can too but Kingdra can sweep right through him without rain. Remember, if Kingdra Rain Dances as T-tar switches out, he can come right back in, remove the Rain (thereby being able to out speed Kingdra who isn't naturally swift) and cause big problems.

To remedy this, some ideas could be 1) Using Dugtrio to trap and kill Tyranitar for good or 2) using the Double Dance Kingdra set who can out speed all neutral nature Tyranitar naturally but can also use Dragon Dance to help should the weather turn bad suddenly. I don't think this would change you team dynamic too much (Dugtrio would) so I think it's an idea you can easily test.


Cheers!
 

Alchemator

my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Agh Hegna I forgot about that and it renders my next point nigh on useless.

Familyguyman I understand that you're trying to help but I do have a brain. I won't let kingdra die if they have a TTar.
 
Rather than rating this team, I have a question. Shedinja is listed as your counter to quite a few threats. This team seems to try to sweep with Shedinja and that will most likely occur late game. So how would you deal with so many threats without risking Shedinja?

Another thing I notice is that Lucario is out of place. He is another late game sweeper who requires assistance to get a sweep. If you really want to use him than I suggest making him the center base of the team rather than Shedinja. He doesn't seem to help this team very much and is hurting the team more than helping it. I think someone such as physical based Infernape would be a better pokemon here or consider a pursuiter such as CB Scizor. I would highly consider Scizor because you lack a clear cut way to deal with Latias and Gengar. Scizor will also provide you with a way to revenge kill MixMence since you lack a pokemon capable of easily switching into him, especially if he is max speed. Scizor also has very good typing and the lone weakness to fire shouldn't be a problem since you have Kingdra, Starmie, and Heatran to take fire type attacks.

I like what your trying to do but I think your better off trying to build a team around a more solid pokemon such as Agili Gross or DD Mence. Shedinja might be able to wall quite a few pokemon but is incapable of dealing very much damage due to poor coverage and has weaknesses to things such as stealth rock and weather. Even though you have a spinner and a weather changer, this doesn't take away from that weakness since there is no way for you to stop Ttar from constentley switching or Rapid Spinning if your opponent has a spin blocker. If you find Shedinja not having a major role in your victories than replace it with something that will help counter major threats. Gl
 
I think people should stop telling him not to use Shedinja. Sometimes its just fun (and on occasion, surprisingly effective) to use a little gimmick such as Shedinja. DDMence has been done a billion times before, Sheddy is something new and original.

Anyway, I'm not particularly familiar with how Togekiss works, but is it that much of a threat? Starmie can hurt it with thunderbolt or Ice Beam can't it?
Ice Beam should hurt Flygon quite a bit too I believe.

Also, I'd personally take Surf over Hydro Pump on Kingdra. It should be powerful enough already with STAB and Rain (and life orb), but without Hydro Pumps unfortunate tendency to miss due to its accuracy.

On a side note, wouldn't it be lovely if Kingdra could learn Thunder?
 
Anyway, I'm not particularly familiar with how Togekiss works, but is it that much of a threat? Starmie can hurt it with thunderbolt or Ice Beam can't it?
/hears togekiss.

Togekiss is pretty bulky. 85/95/115 bulky. Most also run natures that boost SDef and have tons of HP EVs. They also abuse Roost frequently and many have T-wave. Many boost with Nasty Plot, which is absolutely disgusting. Starmie can't do much with T-bolt or Ice Beam unless it has some Specs on. Luckily for you, it's only on about 6.5% of OU teams. (statistics yay!)

Also, I'd personally take Surf over Hydro Pump on Kingdra. It should be powerful enough already with STAB and Rain (and life orb), but without Hydro Pumps unfortunate tendency to miss due to its accuracy.
I think Hydro Pump gets an OHKO on Skarmory whereas Surf does not.

--

Someone earlier pointed out that it's difficult to list Shedinja as a counter simply because it can't be used until late-game when everything that can hurt it is gone. In essence, you have to remove Sheddy from the list of pokes that counter a certain threat unless the following conditions are met:

1) The threat does not appear until late-game.
2) The threat does not typically pack attacks that hurt Sheddy.

As you can probably see, this list cannot be terribly large as most pokes that are kept alive until the end of the game are either set-up sweepers or some type of wall, many of whom Sheddy cannot really hurt or can be hurt significantly by (skarmbliss, hippowdon, etc.) In addition, you mention that Shedinja counters non-roar Swampert. The sad truth is that enough Swamperts carry Roar that you can't risk it setting up rocks and Roaring you away. It gets very tricky even after that because Kingdra is your only "counter" to Pert, and that even isn't a clean counter as the standard 240 HP/0 S Def Relaxed Pert takessomewhere between 65-75% from Kingdra's LO Boosted STAB Draco Meteor. If you manage to get RD up and hit with Hydro Pump, you *might* get an OHKO factoring in SR damage if Pert switches into it. But the problem with Kingdra is that it becomes a rather terrible weather poke when life orb recoil, sandstorm, or any type of entry hazards all can chip away at your health with no way to recover them. Heatran could possibly be switched into Pert, but any opponent would switch Pert out immediately as such a bold switch would instantly telegraph that you have something up your sleeve, thus prompting a switch. Thus, you'll have to predict very well with Heatran given that it does not have a scarf.

I find that the synergy between Sheddy and Lucario is not as great as you might think. In order for Sheddy to lure attacks to switch to Lucario (or anyone else, for that matter), you have to show your opponent your Sheddy. Once your opponent sees Sheddy, he/she will know exactly what you're up to and keep his/her counter equally safe. Central to your strategy, then, must be keeping Sheddy hidden at all costs.

If you need someone to give you a lovely Rain Dance whenever you want, I'd suggest something like this to replace Kingdra, although it would probably be wiser to replace Lucario and use a mixed DD Kingdra to inflict pain as it is much easier to get in than Lucario. In addition, Bronzong can still attract fire attacks to bounce at Heatran, and might actually stay around long enough to use Rain Dance a few times.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Levitate
Sassy Nature
EVs: 252 HP/86 Att/80 Def/92 SDef
-Gyro Ball
-Rain Dance
-Earthquake
-Light Screen/Reflect/Explosion

Make sure its Speed IV is 0 so it can 2HKO Tyranitar with Gyro Ball.
I would suggest Reflect on the last slot to give some leeway if you're switching in Heatran or Starmie, but since the Rotom Formes give your team trouble without Crunch on Lucario, Light Screen might help to soften their damage as well as making Gliscor more tankish. Explosion's fine if you know Bronzong's job is done and you just want to KO someone.

With Kingdra + Bronzong, you easily cover Hippowdon and Tyranitar as Bronzong 2HKOs TTar (who can do relatively little back) with Gyro Ball and Kingdra easily OHKOs Hippowdon with Hydro Pump, even without rain.

Just some suggestions, but making a team work around Shedinja is a very difficult thing to do. Just keep messing around with different pokes until you get a mixture that wins! Good luck. :)
 
How to explain your team is something I have to do in order for you to understand how I look at it. When I look at your team, think of it as a human body. All 6 of your Pokemon make up important parts of the body: heart, lungs, brain, etc. You have a special job for one team mate and that job is to defend Shedinja to come in unharmed and sweep without taking a single blow to it due to it's amazing ability. When one of those Pokemon goes down, it's like a main part of your body going down, and something can come in and make things worse. You may need that one thing to keep your body or in this case team, going. Once your Kingdra/Starmie are gone, your Shedinja relies on pure luck to get in unharmed without switch-in damage or Weather damage. And those lead Azelfs/Aerodactyls aren't really helping out this team.

Obviously you'd understand right away what I mean by this, but if not here's an example: If your Starmie for example fainted, you now no longer have a spinner, leaving your Shedinja in very big trouble against SR/Spikes/T-spikes (I think these all go through it's Focus Sash and hit it's HP right away, yes?). If your Kingdra faints, and they have T-tar/Hipo/other Sandstorm user (rare) or an Abomasnow (rare, but I still see them around here and there for Ice-type/first turn free Hail abuse) then you have no way of changing the weather, and pretty much can't bring in Shedinja anymore unless you use it as a death fodder and switch-in a Pokemon of yours without taking the opponents incoming hit or move.

Your team is a fun one, nonetheless, but that's why Shedinja is always said to be best used in either NU/UU or better yet, Ubers. The OU metagame is just too dangerous for Shedinja, as I have tried teams like this with a Shedinja and trying to defend it and bring it in and get a cheap laugh out of it sweeping everything while my opponent sits and watches his Pokemon go slowly one after the other. If you really want to use Shedinja for the fun of it, try it in Ubers, even if you're not that great in the Uber metagame, might as well try your luck.

Other than that, I don't really see anything wrong with the team itself, ie: EVs, natures, moves, and so on. Seems like everyone else already helped out on the team more than I could at this point. Good luck with future success/changes.

~ Aether Nexus
 

Alchemator

my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Yeah I understand what you're talking about completely. But really you're missing my real strategy (as a lot of people are). It's not so much to sweep with Shedinja but use it to help others to set up and sweep (Lucario/Kingdra) but of course if Sheddy Can set up I'll set it up.

But thanks for taking the time to look at my team everyone! :)
 

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