Item tiering thread and discussion

[Diatom]

Similar to forestflamerunner's ability tiering thread thread, I made a thread for item tiers. It uses the same ranking system as the ability tiering thread.

S-Tier:

Air Balloon
Black Sludge
Choice Band
Choice Scarf
Choice Specs
Damp Rock
DeepSeaScale
DeepSeaTooth
Eviolite
Griseous Orb
Heat Rock
Leftovers
Life Orb
Light Ball
Metal Powder
Quick Powder
Soul Dew (unreleased)
Thick Club

A-Tier:

BrightPowder (banned under evasion clause)
Custap Berry (unreleased)
Expert Belt
Flying Gem
Focus Sash
Lax Incense (banned under evasion clause)
Liechi Berry (unreleased)
Light Clay
Lum Berry
Micle Berry (unreleased)
Petaya Berry (unreleased)
Red Card
Rocky Helmet
Salac Berry (unreleased)
Shed Shell
Shell Bell
Sitrus Berry
Smooth Rock
White Herb

B-Tier:

Absorb Bulb
Adamant Orb
Babiri Berry
Bug Gem
Cell Battery
Charti Berry
Chesto Berry
Chilan Berry
Chople Berry
Coba Berry
Colbur Berry
Dark Gem
Dragon Gem
Eject Button
Electric Gem
Fighting Gem
Fire Gem
Flame Orb
Ghost Gem
Grass Gem
Ground Gem
Haban Berry
Ice Gem
Icy Rock
Kasib Berry
Kebia Berry
Lustrous Orb
Metronome
Normal Gem
Occa Berry
Passho Berry
Payapa Berry
Persim Berry
Poison Gem
Psychic Gem
Quick Claw
Rindo Berry
Rock Gem
Shuca Berry
Steel Gem
Tanga Berry
Toxic Orb
Wacan Berry
Water Gem
Yache Berry

C-Tier:

Apicot Berry (unreleased)
Aspear Berry
Big Root
Black Belt/Fist Plate
BlackGlasses/Dread Plate
Charcoal/Flame Plate
Cheri Berry
Dragon Fang/Draco Plate
Enigma Berry
Ganlon Berry (unreleased)
Grip Claw
Hard Stone/Stone Plate
Jaboca Berry
King's Rock
Lucky Punch
Magnet/Zap Plate
Mental Herb
Metal Coat/Iron Plate
Miracle Seed/Meadow Plate
Mystic Water/Splash Plate
NeverMeltIce/Icicle Plate
Odd Incense
Pecha Berry
Poison Barb/Toxic Plate
Power Herb
Rawst Berry
Rock Incense
Rose Incense
Rowap Berry
Sea Incense
Sharp Beak/Sky Plate
Silk Scarf
SilverPowder/Insect Plate
Soft Sand/Earth Plate
Spell Tag/Spooky Plate
Starf Berry
Stick
TwistedSpoon/Mind Plate
Wave Incense
Zoom Lens

D-Tier:

Aguav Berry
Berry Juice
Binding Band
Destiny Knot
Figy Berry
Float Stone
Focus Band
Full Incense
Iapapa Berry
Iron Ball
King's Rock
Lagging Tail
Lansat Berry
Leppa Berry
Macho Brace
Mago Berry
Muscle Band
Oran Berry
Power Anklet
Power Band
Power Belt
Power Bracer
Power Lens
Power Weight
Razor Claw
Razor Fang
Scope Lens
Wide Lens
Wiki Berry
Wise Glasses

E-Tier:

Amulet Coin
Burn Drive
Chill Drive
Douse Drive
Dragon Scale
Dubious Disc
Electirizer
Exp. Share
Luck Incense
Lucky Egg
Magmarizer
Oval Stone
Prism Scale
Protector
Pure Incense
Reaper Cloth
Ring Target
Shock Drive
Smoke Ball
Sticky Barb
Up-Grade

What do you guys think of this list, and how could it be changed?

 

[dragonuser]

It may be helpful to put the descriptions of the tiers into this thread as well, because switching between the two pages just for the definitions could get annoying. Also I feel like some of the definitions may need to be adapted a little bit to properly fit the "items" category.

From a brief look I believe that Brightpowder and Lax Incense should be in S-Tier, as they were so good they reduced the competitive nature of the game, resulting in a ban. Going by forestflamerunner's definitions, I would also argue that Eject Button and Red Card should be B-Tier, as they require specialized movesets/EV spreads to be utilized best. I also believe that Metronome should be C-Tier as it does have use with moves like Rock Blast, but is generally outclassed by Choice Item's or Life Orb.

Gem's and Plate's seem similar and I want to say that they should be in the same category, but I can see how an argument can be made otherwise. Perhaps some more discussion on these items?

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I also have to support merging gems and plates, as they do basically the same thing, just slap them on a needed pokemon you want. I think weakness berries should also be tiered the same, yes losing your "normal weakness" is pretty stupid but the rest are pretty much valid and the same thing.

 

[voodoo pimp]

From a brief look I believe that Brightpowder and Lax Incense should be in S-Tier, as they were so good they reduced the competitive nature of the game, resulting in a ban.

Not true, they were banned mostly for being entirely luck-oriented. They're really not that powerful in a ladder format and almost no serious players actually used them outside of troll teams and random stuff like Sand Veil hax abuse.

I'll take a look at the list itself when I get back from dinner.

 

[Master of the Six Kings]

I think the weather rocks should be brought down to A tier, with Icy Rock being brought down to C tier. Icy Rock is almost entirely useless, as Hail lacks any real boost abilities that warrant an item and moveslot. Sun/Rain/Sand all can in certain tiers, but in a lot of tiers, they aren't needed or used.

Items are a particularly difficult thing to class. Things like Deepsea items are good for only one Pokemon, but are really S tier? Not to mention that that things like Trick/Fling make a lot of items better or worse. I really thin that with the exception of a handful of items (Leftovers, Life Orb, Eviolite), then every item is only as good as the reason its used on the Pokemon its on.

 

[Somebody Anonymous]

Why is King's Rock both C and D?

 

[Jimera0]

I'll be frank: I don't think items should be tiered at all.

Why? Because items don't work like abilities and Pokemon; they're something anything can equip and are ALWAYS highly dependent on the set being run. It's hard to tier an item when they can be utterly useless on some sets but absolutely vital on others.

Besides this just seems to be a jump on the bandwagon. There's been a LOT of tiering threads lately (mostly in OI I admit, which you might've not even seen) but the success of the ability teiring thread alone is enough that I'm surprised there haven't been imitators yet.

Not every aspect of Pokemon needs to be tiered. What are going to tier next? Types? Moves? Status conditions?? We just don't need any more of this.

 

[Jukain]

Following the same format, there is no E tier. F tier instead.

It might be just me, and I'm ignorant to something, but I don't see how Deepsea Scale and DeepSea Tooth are S-Class.

EDIT: Nevermind...

S tier comments:
DeepSeaScale should be D tier. It's essentially useless on Clamperl.
Icy Rock and Smooth Rock don't belong in S tier. I mean seriously, what use does manual Sandstorm/Hail have? I can't see it feasibly working in any tier. Period. They belong in C tier.
Another ridiculous pair in S tier is Metal Powder/Quick Powder. They're useless even on Ditto. Ditto's only viable use is Choice Scarf Imposter, which is not even out yet. Barely D tier IMO.

A tier comments

Going by forestflamerunner's definitions, I would also argue that Eject Button and Red Card should be B-Tier, as they require specialized movesets/EV spreads to be utilized best. I also believe that Metronome should be C-Tier as it does have use with moves like Rock Blast, but is generally outclassed by Choice Item's or Life Orb.

This.
Also, going by forestflamerunner's definitions, Chesto Berry should be B-Tier, as it requires Rest to be effective. By the same token, Flame Orb should be B-Tier, as it essentially requires Guts (or Quick Feet) to be effective. Toxic Orb should go to B-Tier as well, as it essentially requires Poison Heal (and somewhat Guts) to be effective. Micle Berry in A-Tier? I would argue that it's C-Tier at the very best, as it really doesn't help anything other than a Pokemon with a low-accuracy move, but even those would rather hold another, more useful item.

Will add more to A-Tier and add more tiers when I have time.

 

[Arterial]

I like the idea of tiering items, but I think there can be some changes in the tiers.
Items such as DeepSeaScale+Tooth, Light Ball, Metal+Quick Powder, Soul Dew, Thick Club and all the weather rocks are very situational. Each item only affects one/few Pokes, meaning that it can't really help the majority of the tier. I guess Flying Gem can be used for Acrobatics, but I'm not sure if it should remain in the highest tier of the items. And Silk Scarf in C? I think more Pokes can benefit from Silk Scarf (for example, Ampibom, Arceus, Linoone) than any of the aforementioned items. I've never even seen Shell Bell, nor a Quick Claw in competitive use, as the recovery is very unreliable, while the 30% chance of striking first is simply too gimmicky. I think Lum Berry can make it to S-Tier, as nearly all boosting sweepers carry Lum Berry in order to negate a status.

 

[Jukain]

I like the idea of tiering items, but I think there can be some changes in the tiers.
Items such as DeepSeaScale+Tooth, Light Ball, Metal+Quick Powder, Soul Dew, Thick Club and all the weather rocks are very situational. Each item only affects one/few Pokes, meaning that it can't really help the majority of the tier. I guess Flying Gem can be used for Acrobatics, but I'm not sure if it should remain in the highest tier of the items. And Silk Scarf in C? I think more Pokes can benefit from Silk Scarf (for example, Ampibom, Arceus, Linoone) than any of the aforementioned items. I've never even seen Shell Bell, nor a Quick Claw in competitive use, as the recovery is very unreliable, while the 30% chance of striking first is simply too gimmicky. I think Lum Berry can make it to S-Tier, as nearly all boosting sweepers carry Lum Berry in order to negate a status.

S-Tier means an item is so good it either:
a) dominates the metagame in a way that it cannot be ignored
b) makes an otherwise useless Pokemon/move useful
c) [I added this] Makes an already good Pokemon skyrocket in usefulness
Thick Club makes Marowak somewhat useful. DeepSeaTooth makes Clamperl much better in Little Cup (though Eviolite is still viable). All other things I agree with though.

 

[darthscyther123]

c) [I added this] Makes an already good Pokemon skyrocket in usefulness

This might be too vague of a requirement.Just after a quick check of the May PO stats, you could argue that Toxic Orb belongs in S, since with it, Gliscor has climbed from 27th to 9th (from 7% to 15%) from 4th gen to 5th gen.

 

[blarajan]

Toxic Orb is not S class. It is a situational item that only works well for a few specific Pokemon (Toxic Heal / Guts / Quick Feet / Gengar with Trick???) But honestly, I agree with Jimera. This is just not going to work.

 

[420]

Why not just usage-based tiers?

Choice items/leftovers/life orb are on everything so they should obv. be top tier. Deepseascale/tooth are never used so they should be bottom tier. pokemon specific items should probably be lower if the item in question isn't good enough to make the pokemon in question competitive. So in GSC thick club would be top tier since it made marowak competitive but in gen 5 it should be lower.

 

[Lebron]

Items don't work like abilities and Pokemon; they're something anything can equip and are ALWAYS highly dependent on the set being run. It's hard to tier an item when they can be utterly useless on some sets but absolutely vital on others.

That's really true, I've always been interested in the best pokemon and the best abilities, but items are just utilized to make movesets more effective, basicly the S tier is all we need to know.
You put a lot of work into this though, so good job :P, but please don't go through the trouble off tiering other things!

 

[aurora]

item tiering is a terrible idea
as jimera0 mentioned, they're far too dependent on whichever set the equipping pokemon is using and can be really useless in some situations
also it just makes everything so much more difficult and cluttered

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Why not just usage-based tiers?

Choice items/leftovers/life orb are on everything so they should obv. be top tier. Deepseascale/tooth are never used so they should be bottom tier. pokemon specific items should probably be lower if the item in question isn't good enough to make the pokemon in question competitive. So in GSC thick club would be top tier since it made marowak competitive but in gen 5 it should be lower.

Yeah I agree with this post. The shear usage of these items shows how good they are.

 

[Codraroll]

Many items listed are limited to only one Pokémon as well. While I'm sure Gengar would appreciate a Soul Dew boost, the item only works for Latias/Latios, and is thus rendered completely useless for the 647 other Pokémon. Same goes for Stick, Lucky Punch, Thick Club, DeepSeaTooth, etc... I'd say, put them in a separate tier.

Black Sludge is also detrimental to all types but Poison. Yes, it can be Tricked, but that's as far as it usage goes otherwise. This should at least be noted somewhere.

 

[darthscyther123]

Why not just usage-based tiers?

Choice items/leftovers/life orb are on everything so they should obv. be top tier. Deepseascale/tooth are never used so they should be bottom tier. pokemon specific items should probably be lower if the item in question isn't good enough to make the pokemon in question competitive. So in GSC thick club would be top tier since it made marowak competitive but in gen 5 it should be lower.

I agree, since more competitive items would naturally float to the top.

 

[Taylor]

Well you can tier items seeing how it's more logical to run Focus Sash which guarantees it at least means you survive one turn assuming the conditions are suited. Where as the likes of Focus Band only activates on chance per attack.

Explanations describing why this item belongs in that tier will promote a fresh topic such as this one. It will also be helpful for viewers willing to contribute to the threads' discussion, that is if there is something to respond to from the OP's original choices; or you could update the existing thread with some of the replies already posted in mind.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I agree with the above. It would be a bit logical to do this, since I personally don't get what makes the DeepSeaScale a S-tier considering the only recipitent is Clamperl and how Focus Sash isn't S-tier considering how common and viable it is. There may be a reason, but I'm not seeing it...

Stuff like the Thick Club, DeepSeaScale, Both Powders, and the Light Ball belong to mediocre Pokemon, which makes them see almost no use. Conversely, the Focus Sash and Air Baloon tend to see common usage due to the offensive forces that roam the tier, even if they can be complete failures.

 

[Diatom]

I will try to go over all the items in question:

BrightPowder/Lax Incense: IMO, these are not S-tier because they will not come into play more often than they will in a match. When they do come into play, they are game-changing, but they simply don't enough to warrant S-tier.

Eject Button: OK, you convinced me, this is B-tier.

Red Card: I still believe this is A-tier, because it is always nice to get a free roar/whirlwind on something, and can often be game-changing. Something sweeping your team? Not anymore.

Metronome: Moved to B-tier; I don't know what I was thinking.

Gems/Plates: I still believe that gems should be higher than plates, because the boost they provide is noticeably more substantial. Even over the course of a match, gems are usually the better option.

Weather rocks: Sure, in OU these are useless, but in lower tiers they are some of the best items available. I've used Damp Rock Rain Dance Bronzong, and it absolutely destroyed with Kingdra. Icy Rock moved to B, Smooth Rock moved to A, Damp Rock and Heat Rock stay S.

King's Rock: Oops, should only be C.

Exclusive Items: I am looking at these items as they would be if EVERY pokémon had access to them. Sure, DeepSeaScale might be useless on Clamperl, but think if something like Gliscor had it.

Chesto Berry: Moved to B-tier

Flame Orb/Toxic Orb: Moved to B-tier

Micle Berry: Give this thing to sub Porygon2 or something and you suddenly get a Zap Cannon that always hits and paralyzes. That's power

Flying Gem: Moved to A

Silk Scarf: I honestly don't see why any poke would run this over some other item. What advantage does it provide?

Focus Sash: This would be S-tier if it wasn't for the prevalence of hazards in the meta. Sure, Focus Sash Volcarona stuff sounds good, until you realize that it does nothing if any hazard is up.

Air Balloon: Moved to S-tier

 

[420]

Exclusive Items: I am looking at these items as they would be if EVERY pokémon had access to them. Sure, DeepSeaScale might be useless on Clamperl, but think if something like Gliscor had it.

But they DON'T work on every pokemon, so you're just changing the definition of the item. If eviolite worked on EVERY pokemon it would be broken, but it doesn't so it's not.

Might as well move Poison Gem to S-tier since if it worked on EVERY move it would be good.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

If eviolite worked on EVERY pokemon it would be broken, but it doesn't so it's not.

I agree with what your saying but this is a pretty wild statement. Just look at the little cup where indeed every pokemon can use this item, it is not broken there at all. Sure the metagame would make a total turn around from offense to stall, but thats not broken.

 

[Phi]

Okay this thread has some really interesting possibilities but I'm gonna say as is it's a gaping wad of crap. We should them like tier everything else, based on actual usage statistics. If you use the actual statistics, that accounts for how often in the metagame something like Toxic Orb, which is a sack of crap in the hands of the absolute majority of Pokemon, but in the hands of Guts and Poison Heal users is a better version of Choice Band and Leftovers, respectively. On the other hand, a lot of the sketchy S-Tier stuff here, mainly most of the exclusive items except maybe Soul Dew and Griseous Orb. At the same time, I think a hierarchical list based on usage in battles would be better than a hypothetical list based on how "good" we think an item is, since those results have usually proven better for understanding how we play the game. For example, Thick Club is obviously a better choice for Marowak than Choice Band, but his negligible effect even in NU (NU players correct me if I'm wrong here) means that overall Choice Band is a far bigger "threat" to prepare for. However looking back through this thread it seems like I'm repeating a lot of what other people are saying.

At the same time I'll say I have no idea how to get the item stats out of the monthly usage stats. Any stat junkies here in a thread that needs em? If there's any way I can help comb stats I'd love to. I think obviously because of the wide variety of sets, offensive and defensive, that use leftover better than anything else, it would clearly come out probably far above s-tier, but below that I think would be a lot of surprises.

 

[IcyMan28]

I don't know that items can be tiered in the same way, because they are just as adaptable as the moves on a moveset, but it's worth a shot. I propose the following ranking system (borrows heavily from the other thread, but adapted for items I guess).

S Rank: This item is almost universally useful on every pokemon that can use it - the positives it brings far outweigh the negatives.

A Rank: This item gives significant positive benefits, but the negatives are enough that they detract from universal functionality.

B Rank: The item provides a small benefit when used, but it isn't as game-changing as an S or A rank item.

C Rank: The item is average, with a small use but nothing particularly impressive.

D Rank: This item is not only average, it also has drawbacks that need to be seriously considered.

E Rank: The item is either entirely unusable or has no competitive effect.


That's just how I would go about it. Under this logic, for example, Air Balloon would be S Rank because it has no drawbacks while providing immunity to ground attacks and certain hazards. Any pokemon can benefit from it.

Choice Specs or Choice Band, however, would be A rank. Not everything that can use it would want to be locked into one attack all the time, and might instead get more use from a Life Orb. That kind of thing.