Pokémon Kangaskhan

[The Leprechaun]

Fake Out is, in my opinion, an inferior option. Kangaskhan should always run this set, I think:

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return / Double Edge
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Bulldoze

Earthquake or Bulldoze is an absolute must if you want to even have a chance of beating Aegislash ever.

I know you're writing the kanga preview but the revenge killer set i put in the op is actually very effective. Having a powerful fake out as well as sucker punch can really check many set-up sweepers as well as scarfers. If you ever played with regular kanga in nu last gen, you'd know just how effective fake out can be, and in some cases, i'd argue it's more effective than having a weak coverage move that has the bonus to boost attack. If there's something faster than you when you come in, PuP isn't gonna help, fake out will.

I was gonna suggest this on your thread in the c&c section but since you brought it up here, i'm giving you my response now.

 

[Yeah Galo Sengan]

Unless you nail Aegislash on the switch with a predicted ground attack, what usually happens is as follows:

Kangaskhan used Earthquake!

It's Super Effective!

Aegislash' Weakness Policy activated!

Aegislash used Sacred Sword!

So, yeah

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Thank all of you guys, man. I honestly forgot about Rocky Helmet's merit. I may try either Gyarados or Skarmory. Would Ferrothorn also be of any use against this guy, or does it crumble to the Power-Up Punch too easily?

 

[The Leprechaun]

Thank all of you guys, man. I honestly forgot about Rocky Helmet's merit. I may try either Gyarados or Skarmory. Would Ferrothorn also be of any use against this guy, or does it crumble to the Power-Up Punch too easily?

PuP only does around 32-38% but once kang is at +2, another one has a chance to kill, or you can use EQ for a guaranteed kill.

Unless you nail Aegislash on the switch with a predicted ground attack, what usually happens is as follows:

Kangaskhan used Earthquake!

It's Super Effective!

Aegislash' Weakness Policy activated!

Aegislash used Sacred Sword!

So, yeah

252+ Atk Mega-Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 246-290 (94.25 - 111.11%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. Unless you were joking, this ain't happening.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

I'm writing the OU preview for Kangaskhan and I can assure you that Kangaskhan has better things to be doing than using Fire Blast off of an uninvested base 60 Special Attack. Are you running this over Earthquake? Power-Up Punch? Because those moves are all necessary or Kangaskhan gets walled by other things (Aegislash is the first one that comes to mind.

I've actually encountered loads of Pokemon that have played Mega Kangas without PUP, running anything from Fire Blast to Rock Tomb and Mud Slap. The necessity of carrying those moves is rather mitigated by the fact that the Pokemon that might wall MK without them aren't going to switch in against it. Aegislash is actually a really good example. Given that Mega Kangas is, faster, capable of OHKOing with Earthquake (an attack that Aegislash can't abuse with King's Shield), and immune to Aegislash's priority, no Aegislash in existence is going to switch in on Mega Kangas.

 

[Halcyon.]

I've actually encountered loads of Pokemon that have played Mega Kangas without PUP, running anything from Fire Blast to Rock Tomb and Mud Slap. The necessity of carrying those moves is rather mitigated by the fact that the Pokemon that might wall MK without them aren't going to switch in against it. Aegislash is actually a really good example. Given that Mega Kangas is, faster, capable of OHKOing with Earthquake (an attack that Aegislash can't abuse with King's Shield), and immune to Aegislash's priority, no Aegislash in existence is going to switch in on Mega Kangas.

Kangaskhan can only OHKO with EQ if it's boosted its Attack so PuP is definitely necessary. And Aegislash can do a crap ton to Kangaskhan with Sacred Sword, OHKOing it with LO. I think that Aegislash is absolutely a good check to it, especially because it can gain Leftovers recovery by using Kings Shield. What's worse is that I said Aegislash walls it IFF you get rid of Earthquake, and then you say Aegislash gets beaten by Earthquake .-. Furthermore, just because someone uses Mud Slap on wifi, that doesn't make it good, nor does it mean we should consider it when building our own sets.

 

[YataGarasu]

EDIT: I found the answer; this post's origional purpose is lost [It was a circle throw question]

Has anyone tried Substitute on Mega Kanga? It can easily force switches with the threat of Sucker Punch to set up a Sub; and has the bulk to do so effortlessly against walls.

Yep. That's actually one of my favorite moves for it. If you can predict certain switch ins (like Gengar) most people prefer to switch out, because even if they have Focus Blast to kill the Sub/etc. Crunch is devesating or SP.

 

[green gadgets]

Fake Out is, in my opinion, an inferior option. Kangaskhan should always run this set, I think:

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return / Double Edge
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Bulldoze

Earthquake or Bulldoze is an absolute must if you want to even have a chance of beating Aegislash ever.

There is no set for a poke who is set, it plays with the on playstyle.

Knock Off is a good move to remove the last ~5% of HP. It's good against Focus Sash, I mean Kangashkan isn't that good that it will OHKO anything.

At least I must say something to the "it doesn't kill Aegislash". Yeah I know! But I have 5 other Pokemons that were able to kill him. I don't need Kangashkhan for that, there will always be a counter for every pokemon, that's why it is competetiv able. It's balanced.

 

[Strong Bad]

Have to agree with green gadgets here. It's silly to say things like "X mon should ALWAYS run this set" because how your Pokemon handles checks and counters is dependent on the rest of your team. It's okay if Kangaskhan doesn't have a certain move that counters Y Pokemon that would otherwise wall the hell out of Kanga, because this is a team game, and each move will have trade-offs in comparison to using others. That's the point of having multiple moves suggested. Pokemon are normally OU because they can run varied sets that can handle different Pokemon, not because their optimal set covers everything.

 

[Halcyon.]

There is no set for a poke who is set, it plays with the on playstyle.

Knock Off is a good move to remove the last ~5% of HP. It's good against Focus Sash, I mean Kangashkan isn't that good that it will OHKO anything.

At least I must say something to the "it doesn't kill Aegislash". Yeah I know! But I have 5 other Pokemons that were able to kill him. I don't need Kangashkhan for that, there will always be a counter for every pokemon, that's why it is competetiv able. It's balanced.

That's all well and good, but when you're looking at Kangaskhan's role, its as a sweeper (and a revenge killer as The Leprechaun fairly pointed out to me). A sweeper should be running the set that lets it hit the most Pokémon for the most damage possible, that's just common sense. You can choose not to run Earthquake or Bulldoze, but if you, then Aegislash WILL stop your sweep. There's no doubt about that. I don't car if you have Skarmory. Aegislash stopped you. of course this is a team game, but just as easily as you can say that you have Landorus-T waiting to counter Aegislash, I can say that I have HP Ice Mega Gengar to trap you. This isn't about teams, this is about individual Pokémon, and if you want to be able to beat Aegislash, Earthquake is necessary for beating it.

Furthermore, it's important to weigh the pros and cons of beating each Pokemon you're able to. If you choose to run Fire Blast (please don't >__>) to beat Skarmory, then you're choosing to lose to Aegislash. Conversely, you can choose to run Earthquake to beat Aegislash and not beat Skarmory. Now the rest of your team has the burden of dealing with the one you can't beat. THIS is why Earthquake is usually the better option. It is much easier to beat Skarmory than it is to beat Aegislash. The latter is more versatile and that makes it harder to counter, while the former is much more one-dimensional. That's also why Sucker Punch is so useful. It helps Kangaskhan beat Gengar, which is both a common switch-in to normal attacks, and is decently difficult for the rest of the team to handle. Obviously you can tweak any set you have to fit your team but GENERALLY certain sets are better than others, and I can't believe anyone would argue with that.

 

[Torty73]

That's all well and good, but when you're looking at Kangaskhan's role, its as a sweeper (and a revenge killer as The Leprechaun fairly pointed out to me). A sweeper should be running the set that lets it hit the most Pokémon for the most damage possible, that's just common sense. You can choose not to run Earthquake or Bulldoze, but if you, then Aegislash WILL stop your sweep. There's no doubt about that. I don't car if you have Skarmory. Aegislash stopped you. of course this is a team game, but just as easily as you can say that you have Landorus-T waiting to counter Aegislash, I can say that I have HP Ice Mega Gengar to trap you. This isn't about teams, this is about individual Pokémon, and if you want to be able to beat Aegislash, Earthquake is necessary for beating it.

Furthermore, it's important to weigh the pros and cons of beating each Pokemon you're able to. If you choose to run Fire Blast (please don't >__>) to beat Skarmory, then you're choosing to lose to Aegislash. Conversely, you can choose to run Earthquake to beat Aegislash and not beat Skarmory. Now the rest of your team has the burden of dealing with the one you can't beat. THIS is why Earthquake is usually the better option. It is much easier to beat Skarmory than it is to beat Aegislash. The latter is more versatile and that makes it harder to counter, while the former is much more one-dimensional. That's also why Sucker Punch is so useful. It helps Kangaskhan beat Gengar, which is both a common switch-in to normal attacks, and is decently difficult for the rest of the team to handle. Obviously you can tweak any set you have to fit your team but GENERALLY certain sets are better than others, and I can't believe anyone would argue with that.

I think you need to remember sucker punch will Hurt sharmory

 

[Halcyon.]

I think you need to remember sucker punch will Hurt sharmory

Sucker Punch can't even 2HKO Skarmory at +2.

EDIT: Meant UNLESS at +2, my bad. Still, this doesn't matter, I'm advocating beating Aegislash, not Skarmory ._.

 

[TwistyTie]

So, I've been intrigued with making a Mega Kangaskhan, and after breeding I've got a 3 perfect IV(HP, SP. Def., and Speed) with Attack and Defense at about 22 to 25 IV. Anyways, here's what I've been thinking:

Khangaskhan@Kangaskhanite
Abilities: Scrappy and Parental
Nature: Quirky(This is my Kangakhan's nature)
EVs: 252 Att./130 HP/128 Spd.

Moves:
-PuP
-Crunch/Sucker Punch
-Fake Out/Chip away/Return
-Earthquake/Shadow Claw

PuP for obvious reasons, but this is where things get odd. The reason I like Chip Away as an option is the whole idea of ignoring Defense boosts entirely as well as being a STAB, Return due to the raw base damage and STAB, and Fake Out because it's a STAB with priority over a lot of things with instant flinch. Crunch would be a choice if I'm not running Fake Out due to really good base damage and high flinch, but no priority. Sucker Punch is a very strong choice from I've been seeing. We know why for Earthquake, a great standard high damage move that double hits with Parental Bond. I've been thinking of trying out Shadow Claw due to the Ghost-typing which not many things are resisted to, and due to the Speed increase from Mega form it makes the critical hit chance even higher on a high Crit chance move and could be a good counter to a Spec. sweeper like Gengar. I've got a lot of ideas, but I just don't know what I want to create after my breeding and EV training. : /

I'm wondering if anyone could give me some input so I could bounce some ideas off with them.

 

[Eijiken]

I think that the standard PuP/Return|Fake out|Sucker Punch|Earthquake/Bulldoze set fulfills its role for kanga nicely. Gotta agree with green gadgets and Strong Bad that if you're trying to use Kanga as a sweeper, you either need a bunch of setup (SR/Spikes, etc) or your opponent truly doesn't have a counter to it and it can frolic away. 6-0ing someone with it is dope, but in high level play, everyone is going to respect kanga, especially with the use its been getting.

Kanga is a great (if not one of the best) pivot/revenger killers in gen VI IMO as it gets great priority moves, one of them having STAB, and an mega ability that can help to further abuse said prio. I think teching Fire blast is dumb, and people get caught up in the sweep so much that they don't rely on their bench until its too late, and don't respect switch-ins from the opponent. Pokemon is about learning to how make good reads, respecting your opponent's switchins and of course coverage when it comes to the team building. I feel like kanga perfect in its role as a revenge killer or a late game sweeper/cleaner when pretty much all of its moves are guaranteed to KO.

TL;DR- If you're going to tech something, tech something thats going to make sense, not be a "ooh! i'm going to put this move on it cause in the anime, I saw this being used and it was AMAZEBALLS!" type of play. Stop trying to ALWAYS sweep with the darn thing.

 

[green gadgets]

That's all well and good, but when you're looking at Kangaskhan's role, its as a sweeper (and a revenge killer as The Leprechaun fairly pointed out to me). A sweeper should be running the set that lets it hit the most Pokémon for the most damage possible, that's just common sense. You can choose not to run Earthquake or Bulldoze, but if you, then Aegislash WILL stop your sweep. There's no doubt about that. I don't car if you have Skarmory. Aegislash stopped you. of course this is a team game, but just as easily as you can say that you have Landorus-T waiting to counter Aegislash, I can say that I have HP Ice Mega Gengar to trap you. This isn't about teams, this is about individual Pokémon, and if you want to be able to beat Aegislash, Earthquake is necessary for beating it.

No, that's wrong. In DPP I might give you right, but know with Team View? Aegislash is not undestructible and when I see it in your team, I remove it first and then Kanga sweeps like theres no tomorrow. I mean - lets say. You could run Earthquake, Outrage, Fire Fang and Stone Edge on Garchomp for perfect Coverage, but there is somewhere a Mamoswine who can OHKO it with Ice Shard.
It's pretty simple. When I see a Aegislash on Team View and you see my Kanga, when I beat your Aegislash, my skills are better or my team is better coordinated, maybe there was a misspredict on your side. Also when I lose my counter for aegislash I'm in big trouble. It's always a team play! You sounds like someone who read an Index - what is a Sweeper, Annoyer and so on. (no offense, really). You know a Sweeper is someone who can kill 2 or 3 maybe 4 pokemons per team, but you forget that it takes a base to biuld a house. You can try to "sweep" a team, but without the base you'll fail more of the time. The base is (in OU) to set up hazards (SR/Sticky Web) and to remove the 'mons that can wall my Sweeper but whom I tell that :) In Germany there is a phrase "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (I'll try to translate it.) It means a Pig that lays eggs, offers wool and producing milk. It is excaclty what you wish to have with Kanga, but as I already said, it's a team play and you don't need that.

Furthermore, it's important to weigh the pros and cons of beating each Pokemon you're able to. If you choose to run Fire Blast (please don't >__>) to beat Skarmory, then you're choosing to lose to Aegislash. Conversely, you can choose to run Earthquake to beat Aegislash and not beat Skarmory. Now the rest of your team has the burden of dealing with the one you can't beat. THIS is why Earthquake is usually the better option. It is much easier to beat Skarmory than it is to beat Aegislash. The latter is more versatile and that makes it harder to counter, while the former is much more one-dimensional. That's also why Sucker Punch is so useful. It helps Kangaskhan beat Gengar, which is both a common switch-in to normal attacks, and is decently difficult for the rest of the team to handle. Obviously you can tweak any set you have to fit your team

At first I'm your opinion with the Fire Blast :) But is Aegislash really harder to deal with? Skamory has Whirlwind and Roost. Kings's Shield is no Protect! You can further cripple it with Will-O Wisp or hit him with Hypnosis/Spore. Special Attacker laughs at Kings's Shield with the right prediciton they use Nasty Plot or Calm Mind or something else. Aegislash is easy predictable and that's why he isn't that hard to kill. But it's also a team depending choice which pokemon is easier to kill.

GENERALLY certain sets are better than others, and I can't believe anyone would argue with that.

I never disagree that it is only who good are the player. I like playing Garchomp for an example with Sword Dance. A friend of mine tested Garchomp, but it was never as good as I played it. I will not say I'm the best player or something else. It's only the way of the playingstyle. Today he sweep many asses with Choice Band Garchomp ;)

 

[mite b cool]

If running Adamant, use 240 speed EVs to outspeed speed+ 85s (Heracross, Toxicroak) when mega evolved

 

[PJ_Graphix]

If running Adamant, use 240 speed EVs to outspeed speed+ 85s (Heracross, Toxicroak) when mega evolved

So what is the consensus with the second attack(iron head/sacred sword)? Outspeed and try to OHKO or take a hit in defensive stance and then dish out your hit. I wasn't aware people were giving speed to aegislash? And if you are attacking anything first with your second move chances are your are dead if you don't destroy it right then an there because of frail defenses in attack stance

 

[The Leprechaun]

If running Adamant, use 240 speed EVs to outspeed speed+ 85s (Heracross, Toxicroak) when mega evolved

Cheers, edited the OP.

So what is the consensus with the second attack(iron head/sacred sword)? Outspeed and try to OHKO or take a hit in defensive stance and then dish out your hit. I wasn't aware people were giving speed to aegislash? And if you are attacking anything first with your second move chances are your are dead if you don't destroy it right then an there because of frail defenses in attack stance

You're right, most Aegis aren't running speed but the mixed sets and autotomise variants are. Aegi is still easily 2hko'd if it runs max hp (it does about 77-80%) meaning that not only do you have to keep it healthy to make sure you check it, but also, set-up is near impossible against kanga as the priority aegi uses is ineffective here. So maybe aegi wins one on one, but the situation the previous guy mentioned is still unlikely.

 

[PJ_Graphix]

You're right, most Aegis aren't running speed but the mixed sets and autotomise variants are. Aegi is still easily 2hko'd if it runs max hp (it does about 77-80%) meaning that not only do you have to keep it healthy to make sure you check it, but also, set-up is near impossible against kanga as the priority aegi uses is ineffective here. So maybe aegi wins one on one, but the situation the previous guy mentioned is still unlikely.

I don't have the means to do damage calcs at the moment so who really does win 1 on 1? Does a sacred sword OHKO kanga without a swords dance? If not then kanga can at the very least 2 2HKO aegislash with EQ no matter what I'd think. But again I can't do calcs so if EQ does at least 50% while aegislash is in defense stance then yea. But if anyone is going to do the calcs take into account both jolly 252 atk/252 speed and adamant/jolly 252 hp/252 atk are common for mega kanga. That will factor into how much damage aegislash can do

 

[Torty73]

I think you can't relie on kanga to take out aegislash and that you need another pokemon to do it, like non mega gengar or a fire type. sticky web could deal with a fast aegislash, letting kanga take it out with earthquake. however, a special attacker is better against it. does spikes work on it. it removes toxic spikes, and stealth rock barely hurts it. I know switching out is bad with set up kanga

 

[green gadgets]

I tested on Showdown with a Team that I build in 5 min it was not that bad.

Klefki for setting up Dual Screens and Spikes. Galvantula for Sticky Web and Talonflame for Tailwind. It is a lot, but Tailwind and Sticky Web is too good to doesn't play with. I might change something, but the at the first look it looks solid.

I had problems with Venusaur. Kanga Earthquake did only about ~30-35%. The Set is 252 Atk Adamant with Fake Out, EQ, PuP and Sucker Punch. Guess it didn't had a Atk boost, but I'm shocked that it deals only 30% on Venusaur. Kanga would be broken if it has access to Fire/Ice Punch.

 

[The Leprechaun]

Ok this thread isn't really going anywhere right now so what would be cool is if people discuss what kinda team mates they're using, any set that's not been mentioned, any other experiences with it, etc.

I've been pairing megamom with offensive rotom-wash

Rotom-Wash @ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
- Hydro Pump
- Hp fire
- Volt Switch
- T-bolt
Modest Nature
EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spd / 4 HP

This is a fantastic offensive partner for kanga. It deals exceptionally well with Landorus-t, Skarm, hippo and, with hp fire as surprise factor, ferrothorn, the pokes who threaten it defensively the most. Also, kanga's wall breaking abilities come into their own when rotom manages to volt switch out of a special wall, giving kanga a free turn to kill shit.

 

[green gadgets]

Ok this thread isn't really going anywhere right now so what would be cool is if people discuss what kinda team mates they're using, any set that's not been mentioned, any other experiences with it, etc.

I said it already...

Talonflame - gives support in form of Tailwind and can switch into any Fighting poke and will hurt it with priority Brave Bird or switch back, when you predict the switch, with U-Turn to Kanga.

Klefki - Can easily set up Dual Screens, who gives Kanga even more bulk. Can also cripple fast Sweeper with Thunder Wave, so Kanga can outpased any relevant 'mon.

Crobat - Removes Hazards and can easily switch into Fighting Moves with it's 4 weakness. Can also play U-Turn, Tailwind or Hypnoses.

Rotom-W - Can remove Kanga's Counter like Landorus-T, Ferrothorn, Skarm and so on.

Staraptor - Comes in, lowers the Atk with Intimidate and tagged out with U-Turn.

Galvantula - lays down Sticky Web, cripples 'mons with Thunder Wave, hit really hard with Thunder and takes momentum with Volt Switch.

Gourgeist - Its immunity from fighting move makes it as a great core. Can cripple physically sweeper with Will-O Wisp (Lucario would to try to use Crunch). Gives Kanga recover in form of Leech Seed. Can force to a switch with Trick and a Choice Item.

Trevenant - same as Gourgeist. Has access to Perish Song, but loses Trick. It's more offense then Gourgeist. I think it is depending on the team.

Vaporeon - can takes multiple hits on both sides (physically and special). Can outroar 'mons that were before Sticky Web on the field. With Wish it's possible to heal Kanga. Also might cripple physically Sweeper with Scald.

Espeon - Prevent our field for sticky web and can switch in fighting moves and strike with powerful psycho moves back. Dual Screen User and Wish passer. Can also pass a substitude.

These are all good partners for Kanga, I think there are a lot more, but at the moment I can't remember more :)

 

[Ranevski]

Don't slash anything with power up punch, it is an absolute necessity. SD that goes through crap like tyranitar and balloontran with sucker punch is sort of half the reason to use the pokemon.

I think that PuP is a necessity on Sweeper builds, however I am not sure if MegaKangaskhan is a better Sweeper or Revenge Killer. Revenge Killer sets don't need PuP as much as they need coverage to hit something hard before you swap it back out. I do totally agree that on the sweeper set PuP is mandatory.

Sweeper
- Return
- Sucker Punch/Crunch
- Earthquake/DrainPunch
- PuP

Revenge Killer
- FakeOut
- Return
- Earthquake/DrainPunch
- Crunch/SuckerPunch

 

[Halcyon.]

Possibly the best teammate for Kangaskhan that I've found is Scolipede, which resists Fighting, and can Baton Pass Speed and Swords Dance boosts.

As for non-obvious teammates, Shadow Ball Aegislash also makes a good partner. Luring in and weakening physical walls like Skarmory is huge for Mega Kangaskhan, and people always seem to want to send in their physical walls on Aegislash. Unfortunately for them, Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Skarmory all take huge damage from Aegislash's STAB Shadow Ball, making it much easier for Kangaskhan to sweep late-game.