Lilymoding
formerly Kyosuru Jets
I'm just saying that is a certain scenario. Albeit May be common, it could still not happen, and what then?
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Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]
- Thread starter McMeghan
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Your entire point is moot and... To be honest... You obviously have no idea what you're talking about or what a healthy & reasonably balanced metagame is. Kanga has plenty of bulk to survive plenty of hits and she WILL get those boosts. Ghost types that block it get destroyed by Crunch.
You want that Scarfer to get in? It MIGHT survive a single hit IF it's healthy, hit once, then get killed next turn.
Actually, no. It wasn't. All through last night there were countless posts detailing why any possible check is mostly worthless against Kanga in the long run, and why it is so. :/
Lilymoding
formerly Kyosuru Jets
Okay you all hate the things I'm saying, but if restating things and being proved wrong by people directed at me helps me understand the issue a little better what's so wrong. I honestly know what is wrong with what I said now. And KzTxL7 I read the stream realized the banlist. What did I refuse to do
The part where it has no counters has been stated on literally every page, kinda hard to miss that. The only reliable checks in existence are Sableye, Cofagrigus, and Dusclops. The latter two will die in order to simply burn Kangaskhan. You could use Rocky Helmet Ferro/Chomp but there is a good chance that that is going down in order to take down Mega Kangaskhan as well.
So basically, you need to sac a mon in order to beat it, assuming you are against a good player.
Oh, and Adamant Life Orb Breloom's Mach Punch fails to OHKO. So easily revenged indeed...
Lilymoding
formerly Kyosuru Jets
How bout I calc it with no attack boosts against the ever so common eviolite dusclops eh
Lilymoding
formerly Kyosuru Jets
Oh sorry didn't see dusclops stated in that post. My bad
42 pages of content, and you think no one has checked it's counters? Done calcs too find out what works and not? And what counters lol, the only good and somewhat reliable switchin to Kanga is Sableye, it can beat everything else or just switch out.
God, this thread went to complete shit.
I'd just like to remind people that when considering the capabilities of a sweeper, it is always assumed that it has the best conditions possible, and you have the worst (within reason). This means that, in order for you to correctly say that something is a counter, it has to be able to switch in even when things are at their worst (i.e., Kanga having a boost). The reason being that it can't really counter Kangaskhan if it can't stop it when it has a boost. That's like saying Focus Blast Gengar is a counter so long as you predict Mega Kangaskhan to go for Crunch instead of Sucker Punch on turn 1. Obviously that's ludicrous.
Also, I feel a bit ripped off. I made a nice long "pro-ban" post on page two, and not one "anti-ban" person has responded to it :( If you want to convince me that it's not broken, then take my post and argue against THAT. Don't pick one-liner posts and try to argue against them. This is a discussion thread, not a chat log on PS.
I'd just like to remind people that when considering the capabilities of a sweeper, it is always assumed that it has the best conditions possible, and you have the worst (within reason). This means that, in order for you to correctly say that something is a counter, it has to be able to switch in even when things are at their worst (i.e., Kanga having a boost). The reason being that it can't really counter Kangaskhan if it can't stop it when it has a boost. That's like saying Focus Blast Gengar is a counter so long as you predict Mega Kangaskhan to go for Crunch instead of Sucker Punch on turn 1. Obviously that's ludicrous.
Also, I feel a bit ripped off. I made a nice long "pro-ban" post on page two, and not one "anti-ban" person has responded to it :( If you want to convince me that it's not broken, then take my post and argue against THAT. Don't pick one-liner posts and try to argue against them. This is a discussion thread, not a chat log on PS.
...Oh dear. I'm sorry, but this is exactly the kind of thing that got someone to call you a trolling ass.
Since when was Dusclops ever common? Since when does Kanga have to stay in on a Dusclops if it is swapped in? Since when is it safe to do swap into this against a possible Crunch hitting your face?
Allright good job for reading the thread.
Now.
There is a reason we calc things at +2. You may already know this from some of the battles posted here, but I'll say it anyway.
It is ridiculously easy to get to +2 with mega-kang.
Not only do you have scrappy at your disposal, you have more bulk than walls like celebi and jirachi, not to mention fighting type is a great offensive type and its method of boosting cannot be taunted. PuP is incredibly easy to get off, even on the walls that switch in, so there's a valid reason we calc things at +2.
Also, read Halcyon's post.
He nailed everything down page 2, kudos to ninja'ing everyone.
Now.
There is a reason we calc things at +2. You may already know this from some of the battles posted here, but I'll say it anyway.
It is ridiculously easy to get to +2 with mega-kang.
Not only do you have scrappy at your disposal, you have more bulk than walls like celebi and jirachi, not to mention fighting type is a great offensive type and its method of boosting cannot be taunted. PuP is incredibly easy to get off, even on the walls that switch in, so there's a valid reason we calc things at +2.
Also, read Halcyon's post.
He nailed everything down page 2, kudos to ninja'ing everyone.
Dusclops was bad in last gen's UU, haha. And it will probably die in the process of burning Mega Kangaskhan. And that's one of the most reliable checks.
The point is: A good user of Mega Kangaskhan will always be able to either get boosts, or at least spam Crunch to damage the Ghost-types so it can sweep later. Even if you are forced out you can easily set up again as well.
Lilymoding
formerly Kyosuru Jets
Um I see it all the time In gen 6 with that point in mind... so yeah it's common for me.
I couldn't care less, Dusklops is not OU viable. If you don't understand that this thing is making obscure stuff that has no business in OU.... In OU, then we're done here.
In all honesty, if you read the first 10 pages of the thread then you would have understood all this.
>common
>eviolite dusclops
pick one
>mfw it was shit in uu last gen, ru material
>mfw this is now /vp/
except vp is not that awesome
Mega Kangaskhan commonly carries Power-Up Punch, which is essentially a 70 BP un-Tauntable Swords Dance, and it commonly beats a lot of bulky switch-ins simply by hitting them with Power-Up Punch on the switch and following up with the appropriate attack. Lugia, on the other hand, does not commonly carry Reflect. It's not that it's a bad option, but it's pretty rare because there are so many other good options that compete for a spot on any given Lugia set. Not only that, but unless Lugia is running a lot of Spe investment (which, again, is less common than those that run more bulk instead), it won't be able to get up the Reflect before Kangaskhan hits it with Return and KOs. Assuming Kangaskhan is boosted and Lugia (or any other defensive switch-in) isn't is not an unfair scenario that's just favorable to the ban side. It's an extremely likely scenario. Kangaskhan very commonly gets to +2 because spamming Power-Up Punch for the boost is very easy to do. Even when there is a Ghost-type in play, simply hitting it with Scrappy Power-Up Punch on the switch will let Kangaskhan mega evolve the next turn and hit it with a +1 Parental Bond Crunch (alternatively, it could just mega evolve immediately and use Crunch on the switch for the 2HKO). If Lugia switches into Kangaskhan, it is very likely that it will switch into Power-Up Punch and get KO'd by the follow-up attack, or it is very likely that Kangaskhan already got to +2 earlier in the match.
Saying, "Well, Kangaskhan isn't broken because it doesn't break walls that easily when it's unboosted," doesn't make much sense when a +2 Kangaskhan is such a common occurrence. If a Pokemon is to be considered a "counter" to Mega Kangaskhan or to be said to "wall" it, it needs to be able to take it on in its entirety, not just in those few circumstances where Mega Kangaskhan happens to not get the +2 boost.
Kid, read the usage statistics on the simulator.
Lilymoding
formerly Kyosuru Jets
Believe it or not no matter how... belittling it may seem you are really helping me out a lot. I am realizing my mistakes and formulating ideas. And you have to hit twice with PuP if you want to have scrappy since you have to be normal kang, burn hurts, and I have beat many mega kangs with burnpassers and ghost types
Lilymoding
formerly Kyosuru Jets
Everyone has their own experiences so that's collecting usage by over thousands of people. I have seen plenty, you may not have. Nit a big deal
my problem is that there are many counters in pokebank OU, and I don't want to see this thing banned there.
For example:
Landorus-t can come in, intimidate, get off some very powerful earthquakes to kill it.
Scarf Terrakion can come in and revenge kill it easily, and if it goes for a sucker punch, thats a free +2 attack boost for the good old wrecking ball.
A balloon heatran with flame body can tank a hit and either burn it or take it out fairly easily.
Now, I do feel like this thing should be banned specificall for pre-bank OU, but since that isn't a possibility, I would just rather have this thing not banned.
Kangaskhanite should not be made Uber.
For example:
Landorus-t can come in, intimidate, get off some very powerful earthquakes to kill it.
Scarf Terrakion can come in and revenge kill it easily, and if it goes for a sucker punch, thats a free +2 attack boost for the good old wrecking ball.
A balloon heatran with flame body can tank a hit and either burn it or take it out fairly easily.
Now, I do feel like this thing should be banned specificall for pre-bank OU, but since that isn't a possibility, I would just rather have this thing not banned.
Kangaskhanite should not be made Uber.
I'd argue that it's viable, but not enough to make the OU cut.
But thats a whole other argument.
True, but it doesn't change the fact that you have to sacrifice something to take Kanga down, and it'll still find it's way to +1.
Yeah, if you sacrifice something. You pretty much always have to sacrfice something to beat Kanga, and if it swaps out, you have to sacrifice something again to get Terrakion in. You can't just predict the correct move most of the time, since Kanga usually comes in when it has a chance to P u P. Always expect to be swapping into P u P.
Tran I don't believe is DW yet and does not want to take Power Up Punch at all.
Landy will still take a lot of damage if it tries swapping in too much, and EQ isn't too extremely powerful against it's bulk. I had to run SuperPower on mine, but it's still not a true or reliable counter.
Kinda irrelevant, but I feel I had to add. That's the calc with Stealth Rock, meaning that Multiscale is utterly worthless in that scenario.
Now, how much would a M-Kangaskhan do against a full HP Multiscale Lugia?
+2 252 Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Multiscale Lugia: 106-126 (25.4 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Welp, that's not much, but... that's the 102 BP hit being cut by half due to Multiscale. The 51 BP one will hit at full force. Which means it does the same damage. So, in fact, Multiscale Lugia takes motherfucking 50.8% min damage from M-Kangaskhan.
Of course, Lugia may live to tell the tale because lol REFLECT, but how about anything else that's *not* called Lugia? Oh yeah. They die.
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There's a reason you don't try to sweep until Sableye is gone. It's like you don't try to sweep with Talonflame before killing Tyranitar. Sableye can be chipped away with Crunch and pressured offensively so it doesn't get chances to Recover, meaning that you could wear it down to the point that you can kill it.
Ladder experiences aren't reliable because unless you are around 2000 rating you are not facing good players.
Have you wondered why you are seeing them at all? They have zero function outside of checking Mega Kanga, and that's only if it's not already weakened first.
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