Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[neooo]

It seems illogical for the people defending Mega Kagna to always bring up Sableye or other Ghosts, especially considering that if Kanga doesn't jump the gun and go mega scrappy allows it to hit Ghosts.

If this thing gets banned, I think it would be funny to see the average ranking of people using it, versus them not using it a week later.

 

[Tachnicla]

Galvantula with Gastro Acid, Jumpluff with Worry Seed, and Alakazam with Skill Swap. Also, those with Entrainment that can outspeed Mega Kang are Durant, Dedenne, Pyroar, and Hawlucha.

Dedenne's trolly 101 speed finally gets some use ò wó

Lets see how well it takes a Return... (Assuming it comes in after your previously murdered Poke and M-Kang didn't use PuP)

252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Dedenne: 180-213 (65.4 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Splat.

 

[Tressed]

If you are using an Alakazam to "Counter" Mega-Kangaskan it better be Mega-zam to trace Parental Bond and hit back. Because even without Parental Bond Alakazam just dies.

..........
Sucker Punch?

 

[TheMohZone]

Galvantula with Gastro Acid, Jumpluff with Worry Seed, and Alakazam with Skill Swap. Also, those with Entrainment that can outspeed Mega Kang are Durant, Dedenne, Pyroar, and Hawlucha.

You sure they can outspeed? can they live a hit afterwards? No?

good talk. Seriously the thing can and will switch when it kills your gimmicky not a check.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

If you are using an Alakazam to "Counter" Mega-Kangaskan it better be Mega-zam to trace Parental Bond and hit back. Because even without Parental Bond Alakazam just dies.

Mega Zam dies to Sucker Punch, however, if you run Encore, Protect, and then two attack moves, you can encore Sucker Punch, stall out its PP or force them to switch, and then whatever comes in after her takes a massively powerful, 170 SpA + Parental Bond attack to the face.

Unconventional set, but it's pretty hilarious to sweep a team with Parental Bond Mega Zam.

 

[Azure Demon]

Well, I don't know if M-Kanga should be banned or not, because of a few reasons. 1. M-Kanga's Defenses and Speed are decent, but it leaves it wide open to a few checks. 2. M-Kanga's ability is broken, because if M-Kanga gets off 3 Power-Up Punches, it'll have +6 Attack after 3 turns, so there's that. 3. M-Kanga already gets increased Attack upon Mega Evolving, so its Attack will be sky high after 3 Power-Up Punches. 4. Chesnaught with Black Belt is a major check to M-Kanga. Chesnaught is so Physically bulky that it can wall M-Kanga to a certain degree. Plus, if Chesnaught gets a chance to set up with Bulk Up and go for a Brick Break, along with STAB and Black Belt, M-Kanga will go down in 1-hit. So, in all, M-Kanga should not be moved to Ubers, because of major Fighting Type checks, like Chesnaught, Breloom, etc., and because of M-Kanga decent defenses and speed.

Breloom doesn't check anything! Have you not read the thread up until this point? Mach punch doesn't ohko but return does from kangaskhan. If breloom has sash it gets broken and dies to the second hit from the baby!

Chesnaught is another thing that is not a good check!


Adamant

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-199 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Jolly

252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 153-181 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also on the turn you go for your bulk up or turn you switch in you probably will get PUP'd

Adamant

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 334-396 (87.8 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Jolly

+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 202-240 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That is the crappiest and most gimmicky check I've heard of dude.

 

[Stolen Steel]

..........
Sucker Punch?

Huh? I never claimed Mega-zam was a counter (see the quotation marks of e-sarcasm?) I was saying using skill swap is stupid since even without Parental Bond Mega-Kanga will still kill Alakazam.

 

[SP458]

Galvantula with Gastro Acid, Jumpluff with Worry Seed, and Alakazam with Skill Swap. Also, those with Entrainment that can outspeed Mega Kang are Durant, Dedenne, Pyroar, and Hawlucha.

All these Pokemon are owned by +2 Mega Kangaskhan, with or without PB.

EDIT: Concerning Durant, it's obviously to give Truant, right? Because Durant usually runs Hustle.

 

[Azure30]

Galvantula with Gastro Acid, Jumpluff with Worry Seed, and Alakazam with Skill Swap. Also, those with Entrainment that can outspeed Mega Kang are Durant, Dedenne, Pyroar, and Hawlucha.

You lose a pokemon just to force a switch? Jesus christ you don't rank high in competitive battles do you?

 

[Tressed]

Huh? I never claimed Mega-zam was a counter (see the quotation marks of e-sarcasm?) I was saying using skill swap is stupid since even without Parental Bond Mega-Kanga will still kill Alakazam.

Woops, thought you were agreeing with him for a sec. My bad DX

Also, 69 pages :p

 

[GCN-2000]

If you are using an Alakazam to "Counter" Mega-Kangaskan it better be Mega-zam to trace Parental Bond and hit back. Because even without Parental Bond Alakazam just dies.

I (kind of) agree with your opinion on using Alakazam. I was just pointing out some pokemon with ability-canceling moves that can outspeed Mega Kangaskhan, that's all, nothing serious.

Note-Just noticed in a later post you were just being sarcastic. I don't mind that at all. I'm just trying to give some suggestions, that's all.

 

[Stolen Steel]

Mega Zam dies to Sucker Punch, however, if you run Encore, Protect, and then two attack moves, you can encore Sucker Punch, stall out its PP or force them to switch, and then whatever comes in after her takes a massively powerful, 170 SpA + Parental Bond attack to the face.

Unconventional set, but it's pretty hilarious to sweep a team with Parental Bond Mega Zam.

Yeah I suppose it is possible but my point was that even without Parental Bond Mega-Kanga still kills Alakazam.

 

[Zalfi]

Regardless of whether or not MegaKanga has counters, I don't know why anyone would want an OU format where every successful team is Sableye/Confagrius + 5 others. And probably the majority of which will run MegaKanga. And probably something to beat Kanga's few reliable counters. I know I'm not super experienced but sounds pretty format warping to me. Which if I'm not mistaken is why things get banned.

 

[Stolen Steel]

Woops, thought you were agreeing with him for a sec. My bad DX

Also, 69 pages :p

It's all good. As Fat Sergeant stated it is theoretically possible to use it lol.

 

[RoboZygo]

Regardless of whether or not MegaKanga has counters, I don't know why anyone would want an OU format where every successful team is Sableye/Confagrius + 5 others. And probably the majority of which will run MegaKanga. And probably something to beat Kanga's few reliable counters. I know I'm not super experienced but sounds pretty format warping to me. Which if I'm not mistaken is why things get banned.

hence is why I'm certainly voting for a quickban

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Mega Zam dies to Sucker Punch, however, if you run Encore, Protect, and then two attack moves, you can encore Sucker Punch, stall out its PP or force them to switch, and then whatever comes in after her takes a massively powerful, 170 SpA + Parental Bond attack to the face.

Yeah I suppose it is possible but my point was that even without Parental Bond Mega-Kanga still kills Alakazam.

Mega Alakazam's Focus Blast can just barely OHKO Mega Khan, let alone with Parental Bond, so they're pretty much forced to use Sucker Punch. Which you then Encore, and then force them to switch. And then the next time mega mom comes in, you protect to scout their move, since they could predict you'll just encore again. This does mean only two slots for offensive moves, and one of them needs to be focus blast.

It's not a counter, it's barely even a check, but it's still a "kill the rest of your team with Parental Bond Mega Alakazam" way of dealing with Mega Mom.

 

[RoboZygo]

Mega Alakazam's Focus Blast can just barely OHKO Mega Khan, let alone with Parental Bond, so they're pretty much forced to use Sucker Punch. Which you then Encore, and then force them to switch. And then the next time mega mom comes in, you protect to scout their move, since they could predict you'll just encore again. This does mean only two slots for offensive moves, and one of them needs to be focus blast.

It's not a counter, it's barely even a check, but it's still a "kill the rest of your team with Parental Bond Mega Alakazam" way of dealing with Mega Mom.

these kind of arguments just solidify the need for a quick ban. It's not a counter, and barely even a check-and this might one of the best ways of dealing with Kanga, that's the sad part.

 

[4RT]

How is this thread still open lmao just ban the god damn thing and let us play a healthy meta.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Well, I don't know if M-Kanga should be banned or not, because of a few reasons. 1. M-Kanga's Defenses and Speed are decent, but it leaves it wide open to a few checks. 2. M-Kanga's ability is broken, because if M-Kanga gets off 3 Power-Up Punches, it'll have +6 Attack after 3 turns, so there's that. 3. M-Kanga already gets increased Attack upon Mega Evolving, so its Attack will be sky high after 3 Power-Up Punches. 4. Chesnaught with Black Belt is a major check to M-Kanga. Chesnaught is so Physically bulky that it can wall M-Kanga to a certain degree. Plus, if Chesnaught gets a chance to set up with Bulk Up and go for a Brick Break, along with STAB and Black Belt, M-Kanga will go down in 1-hit. So, in all, M-Kanga should not be moved to Ubers, because of major Fighting Type checks, like Chesnaught, Breloom, etc., and because of M-Kanga decent defenses and speed.

Well, I decided to post again, guys. Break time over because this is a post that tries to explain both sides of the coin and this guy actually REALLY tries. While I think the arguments are a touch weak, I'll give you credit for what you're trying to say.

1. These Defenses are defenses many sweepers WISH they had. 100 may not be the best speed, but for a sweeper, I've usually had 100 be the lowest. It's a good speed to outspeed the usual tanks that you typically see like Rotom-W without Choice Scarf. It's not the best speed, but it's good for what you need.

2. Remember that, unless your opponent has a Ghost-Type, just getting +2 Attack is relatively easy. Against those that continue to underestimate it, having +6 makes it impossible to switch into.

3. That higher Attack doesn't help in the slightest for taking it on, and it's right to notify people of this natural Attack boost, so...props.

4. The problem with Chesnaught is that Mega Momma can usually go with what you said with Number 2 and continuously use Power-Up Punch to out-boost Chesnaught's Bulk Ups. I hate showing this to you, but...

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-199 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sounds good at first, but now let's use Power-Up Punch:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 45-54 (11.8 - 14.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever (thank you, Pokemon Showdown...you have given me reason to laugh).

Now add in the Power-Up Punch bonuses, and...

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 334-396 (87.8 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

That's a mighty high chance to 2HKO with Power-Up Punch followed by Return. You also know it's bad when RETURN does as much damage to Chesnaught as Fire Punch does.

On the upside, if Chesnaught DOES happen to survive after two hits...

4 Atk Chesnaught Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 174-206 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

Uh-oh...yeah. Expert Belt compromises Chesnaught's bulk; basically, Chesnaught depends on Leftovers to keep some bulk.

Most Fight-Types can't even switch into Mega Momma anyways. We tried Cobalion and it failed. Anything it can hit Super-Effectively has failed. One could argue that 252/252+ Conkeldurr with Leftovers, Mach Punch, and Drain Punch would suffice as a shaky check, but then you realize:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Conkeldurr: 199-235 (48 - 56.7%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Fight-Types aren't going to cut it this time...

You made a good attempt, though--better than most of us have seen lately.

Now for a post with me just spewing out what I've heard around.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 172-204 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So...Hippowdon comes in as a Pokemon that can phaze Mega Momma out(?). Then what?

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 153-180 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Just wanted to point out that Steelix exists...and is still 3HKO'd...worse than Hippowdon, actually.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 157-186 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Everybody start running Rhyperior, I guess. Then again, with this spread...its offenses suck.

4 Atk Rhyperior Edgequake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 144-171 (41 - 48.7%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

By the time you would hit the second time, you're dead. True that Rhyperior has Dragon Tail, but then you to face it again.

More proof of her power...not that we needed it or anything, but even truly dedicated Physical Walls fall to her wrath. The most these Pokemon would do is phaze her out for later...and the defender is left crippled. Not a good option.

Good tries everyone. Now it's time to wait it out.

One more thing...

lmfao this thing is broken as all shit

We should've listened...we could've avoided so much, but...here we are.

 

[ModelT]

So I've fully red the first 5 pages, and skimmed the remaining 64 because nobody actually read the first post about not recirculating the same arguments over and over...

To Summarize: Kang is OP, has no reliable checks/counters, every team in OU needs to plan 2 mons to be able to reliably take it out, it can hit through all the standard methods of blocking crazy fast sweepers (Sash and Sturdy as examples) which other powerful megas CAN'T get through in one hit (Mold Breaker beats sturdy, but Sash is more universal), anything that slightly scares it you probably have something on your team to deal with, it's too easy to use, it's got reasonable versatility, PuP > SD because not tauntable and does damage, it's got good speed and excellent reliablility, priority move that kills its major type counter, it violates child abuse laws (things getting a bit serious, need some lols, am I right?), it's too easy to use, and anything you can to do predict it's standard set-ups can be countered by its standard set ups (or switching if you didn't prepare for exactly that scenario.

In the end, the only argument that ever seems to carry any validity is about an unskilled battler (either using or defeating Khan), and this is about the WHOLE of OU, meaning the best and the worst, and if the best can take a Khan and waltz over 60% of the tier with little to no effort, doesn't that suggest a bit too much power?

Honestly, there are no arguments left. This thread needs to be locked and examined, and the final conclusion will be to ban the her Mega Stone.

 

[gsninja]

We should've listened...we could've avoided so much, but...here we are.

Crazy how we blew through all these pages so quickly.

 

[Arash]

wtf this shit hasn't been banned yet?

 

[Ilan]

Her damage is too crazy specially by how bulky she is and the fact that she has a good movepool to deal with lots of treats BTW on the simulator it says she learns knock off it's a mistake..
quickban.. I don't see her staying in OU.. next one will be mega lucario and then I think OU will live.

Seismic Toss will do only 150 in Lvl 100 battles and 75 in Lvl 50 battles.

I believe that Mega-Kanga should stay in OU. Unlike cousin Mega Gengar, you actually can switch out into another Pokemon, and your not locked into any Shadow Tags. If you play your cards right and your team is built to counter a significant amount of the new and old threats of OU, I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed in this tier. Sure, you can say "omg he's broken he hits twice", and yeah his Atk is pretty high, but with the right support there are ways around him. Every team should be prepared for strong hitters, not just M-Kanga. Ghosts, Substitute, Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, Rocky Helmet, PP Stalling, Status (burn/toxic/twave/sleep) and even Entry Hazards easily deal with M-Kanga. If you have a problem with Mega Kanga, I suggest you spend a little bit more time in the teambuilder tab.

You can't switch when she does over 50% to anything with the right move and isn't even choice locked.. and those that do survive ONE hit are mostly slow pokemons that are 2HKOed.. so no.. you CANT SWITCH!
subtitute lol? ghosts? crunch? scrappy? no she has few to no counters..

 

[preserve]

This post is filled with...let me explain something. Look above. None of her attacks have a boosted attack from Power-Up Punch. THIS is the damage she does without it. It's scary. It's very very scary. The Offense Clause $&*@&^&%%$(insert beating the dead horse). Mega Kangaskhan can sweep through most of the most defensive Pokemon in situations where the defender has more defense than normal WITHOUT the use of Power-Up Punch.

Your statistics may be correct but the thing is that rotom can live an unboosted return and cripple it with wilo-wisp. Trevenant can also live any unboosted attack and cripple it with wilo wisp. Gliscor can live pretty decently and can heal up with poison heal and try and toxic stall it. The fact that it can live an cripple it is significant.

This is blatantly false. Mkhan has only a few good checks and counters (musketeers, nape, MegaLuke, Sableye). MKhan is so good that you'd rather have a second check on your team just to make sure (so add a Rocky Helmet Skarm, Ferro, Chomp). MKhan is also too good to pass up for many teams. Basically, once the entire meta knows how good this thing is, we'll commonly see this pattern in teambuilding:
- MKhan
- MKhan check 1
- MKhan check 2
- Counter to a MKhan check
- Counter to another MKhan check
- Sweeper that pairs well with MKhan

That's hardly diverse if you ask me. See, there's a fine line between healthy, balanced diversity and overcentralization. I don't want to run some obscure shit that checks MKhan and does nothing else. I don't want to always go for a Musketeer or Infernape just so I can take care of Khan. I want the freedom to choose whatever the hell I want, and MKhan has the potential to severely restrict teambuilding.

You know all those MKhan checks and counters you listed can also do well in his absence.

 

[BCE]

was it already pointed that Parental Bond is a better Serene grace ? Crunch not only have 40% to reduce Def, but a 20% to reduce Def twice. 60% to rock slide flinch, Bulldoze will reduce -2 Speed, 20% to burn/paralyze/freeze with the elemental punchs and the list continues.