Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[JacobMesecar]

Crunch and Sucker Punch beat Aegislash, no questions asked, should Kang be at +1 from a scrappy PUP.
+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 270-318 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This is the best possible scenario for slash.

One move completely f*cks any Kahn not packing Sucker Punch. And that's King's Shield. Most sets include contact moves and Power-Up Punch obviously can't hit him. Aegislash can come in on a predicted Power-Up and take a hit afterwards with its high defense, then smack him with a boosted Sacred Sword (probably even a +4 if you put it that way, since Weakness Policy is a slightly common combo with him while using Swords Dance).

Even assuming it has Sucker Punch it's just mind games at that point for whenever Aegislash will use King's Shield/Swords Dance or when Khan uses Sucker Punch. I still really think Aegislash is a good counter and will OHKO Khan in most instances with the Policy set-up.

 

[GMac316]

Alright so I feel like this one could actually use more time, even though I'm leaning Uber. I understand the arguments that have been made on irc and such but I feel there is still adaption that could happen to the meta, meaning I don't find Kanga strategically limiting. It seems to me that people haven't been running all that they could to stop Kanga that would still be relevant in the metagame and thats pretty much THE reason I feel Kanga can wait for Round 1. I expect better players to ladder when Suspect starts and that, along with SPL, is when this adaption would happen. It's easier to make this decision in a better environment.

How did Kanga get put up to the chopping block before Mega Lucario?

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE POST IN PR INSTEAD, WE ALL KNOW THIS THREAD IS GOING TO HELL

That's exactly right. It not necessary as of yet imo.
Use klefki, gliscor, sableye, just to name a few. They flatten kanga no question.
But you can use the above three to counter more than just kanga. Klefki hurts nearly everything and is fantadtic support. Sableye is a huge threat to amything physical. And gliscor is the same. I agree that more time is needed before the Mega Kanga gets the boot

 

[Lilymoding]

No one wants to be civilized with you because you refuse to go back to all the post which have literally covered everything. Its not us being closed minded. It's you being lazy.

End of Story.

Dude I said I read through the posts. Next time maybe you should pay a little more attention eh. And I explained how I learn about things more when they're said to me, so reading the thread didn't help as much as this did.

 

[zachmac]

Faster priority users or priority users that can take a sucker punch can take out weakened mega kangaskhan such as talonflame or azumarill and not to mention extremespeed if we are including pokebank OU. And weakening mega kangaskhan is not that hard to do because most people will be using power up punch on the first move making it easier to revenge kill.

They will be using Power Up Punch when they can force a swap out. So, actually, we can assume it's not too weakened, since forcing swap outs is very easy for offensive pokemon.

Use klefki, gliscor, sableye, just to name a few. They flatten kanga no question.

Swap Gliscor in on Power Up Punch. Now it's at +2. Even Gliscor won't like Return after that.

Klefki is the same as all the scarf fighting types brought up. It can't swap in, just revenge "kill" it, meaning a sacrifice, yet again, will be certain.

 

[Lilymoding]

My Kyogre can't beat this Soul Dew Latias with +6 Special Defense. Clearly, it's not OP.

Dude I didn't mean directly unfavorable either. I said any. Try no stat boosts on either

 

[KztxL7]

One move completely f*cks any Kahn not packing Sucker Punch. And that's King's Shield. Most sets include contact moves and Power-Up Punch obviously can't hit him. Aegislash can come in on a predicted Power-Up and take a hit afterwards with its high defense, then smack him with a boosted Sacred Sword (probably even a +4 if you put it that way, since Weakness Policy is a slightly common combo with him while using Swords Dance).

Even assuming it has Sucker Punch it's just mind games at that point for whenever Aegislash will use King's Shield/Swords Dance or when Khan uses Sucker Punch. I still really think Aegislash is a good counter and will OHKO Khan in most instances with the Policy set-up.

Damn near every Khan has Sucker Punch, and crunch is becoming a high usage in its 4th Slot. Seriously people.

That's exactly right. It not necessary as of yet imo.
Use klefki, gliscor, sableye, just to name a few. They flatten kanga no question.

Did you literally stop at post 6?

 

[Srn]

One move completely f*cks any Kahn not packing Sucker Punch. And that's King's Shield. Most sets include contact moves and Power-Up Punch obviously can't hit him. Aegislash can come in on a predicted Power-Up and take a hit afterwards with its high defense, then smack him with a boosted Sacred Sword (probably even a +4 if you put it that way, since Weakness Policy is a slightly common combo with him while using Swords Dance).

Even assuming it has Sucker Punch it's just mind games at that point for whenever Aegislash will use King's Shield/Swords Dance or when Khan uses Sucker Punch. I still really think Aegislash is a good counter and will OHKO Khan in most instances with the Policy set-up.

Every khan carries sucker punch unless it's a haxer or defensive. And sucker punch, which fails, doesn't make contact, so you can just sucker punch when they KS and you wouldn't get the attack drop, then beat aegislash with appropriate coverage move.

 

[Lilymoding]

That's exactly right. It not necessary as of yet imo.
Use klefki, gliscor, sableye, just to name a few. They flatten kanga no question.
But you can use the above three to counter more than just kanga. Klefki hurts nearly everything and is fantadtic support. Sableye is a huge threat to amything physical. And gliscor is the same. I agree that more time is needed before the Mega Kanga gets the boot

I wouldn't say no question but they do have a good chance to halt kang

 

[Orga777]

That's exactly right. It not necessary as of yet imo.
Use klefki, gliscor, sableye, just to name a few. They flatten kanga no question.

Gliscor does not really do enough to Kanga, can't swap in, and is 2HKOed by Return... So... Yeah. That was explained earlier int he thread. Sableye cannot switch in due to fear of Crunch, and due to Team preview, if someone is smart, they WILL predicts that switch in and ruin Sabeleye's day, swap out, and then send in something that cares less about burn. Klefki... may have some bets to wager, and may be a possible counter if the Kanga does not run EQ.

One move completely f*cks any Kahn not packing Sucker Punch. And that's King's Shield. Most sets include contact moves and Power-Up Punch obviously can't hit him. Aegislash can come in on a predicted Power-Up and take a hit afterwards with its high defense, then smack him with a boosted Sacred Sword (probably even a +4 if you put it that way, since Weakness Policy is a slightly common combo with him while using Swords Dance).

Even assuming it has Sucker Punch it's just mind games at that point for whenever Aegislash will use King's Shield/Swords Dance or when Khan uses Sucker Punch. I still really think Aegislash is a good counter and will OHKO Khan in most instances with the Policy set-up.

Or Kanga can just... you know. Switch out when Aegislash comes in to something like Excadrill or ANY pokemon with EQ that totally eats him up. :/

 

[MagicMissingno]

One move completely f*cks any Kahn not packing Sucker Punch. And that's King's Shield. Most sets include contact moves and Power-Up Punch obviously can't hit him. Aegislash can come in on a predicted Power-Up and take a hit afterwards with its high defense, then smack him with a boosted Sacred Sword (probably even a +4 if you put it that way, since Weakness Policy is a slightly common combo with him while using Swords Dance).

Even assuming it has Sucker Punch it's just mind games at that point for whenever Aegislash will use King's Shield/Swords Dance or when Khan uses Sucker Punch. I still really think Aegislash is a good counter and will OHKO Khan in most instances with the Policy set-up.

Earthquake.

252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 126-150 (38.8 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Blade: 252-298 (77.7 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 184-218 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Uvood]

That's exactly right. It not necessary as of yet imo.
Use klefki, gliscor, sableye, just to name a few. They flatten kanga no question.
But you can use the above three to counter more than just kanga. Klefki hurts nearly everything and is fantadtic support. Sableye is a huge threat to amything physical. And gliscor is the same. I agree that more time is needed before the Mega Kanga gets the boot

Klefki has no chance against Kanga, it can para, but nothing else. Gliscor dies too plus two return. Sableye is legit.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread now, going to bed XD. The points have been made, and the answers are here. Honestly, a mod could just lock this, since nothing productive is coming out of this thread anymore. It's a never ending repeat of ''lazy or stupid user x'' coming with a stupid argument, and people responding with answers that are fully present already. I would suggest everyone else stop too, but I'm no mod or king, so have fun with the circles :P.

 

[zachmac]

Dude I didn't mean directly unfavorable either. I said any. Try no stat boosts on either

Not every situation can be considered. All righty then.

Common situations are the most reliable to place it upon, and in almost all situations, Kanga will have the advantage.

 

[Lilymoding]

I do agree this needs more time. It hasn't been long enough to discover all of the checks and counters.

 

[Lilymoding]

And imo you all have good points and I have considered and pondered your objections. Don't think I'm ignoring you all.

 

[S7ven]

Skarmory dies to +2 Return. R-E-T-U-R-N. MegaLucario, yeah, it checks it, NOT COUNTERS, because it dies to Return or even worse, POWER UP PUNCH too. So now you have a full Health +3 MegaKanga ready to kill everyone. So much for your "counter", huh?

Mega-Kanga suffers from a disease called 4 move slots syndrome.

 

[Lilymoding]

Klefki has no chance against Kanga, it can para, but nothing else. Gliscor dies too plus two return. Sableye is legit.

Prankster reflect with para?

 

[DarkLynx]

I'm really leaning on banning, because it feels broken as fuck. But I don't agree with it being quick banned. Gengarite ban was a necessary evil, because Shadow Tag is a broken ability and the versatility was HUGE, but I don't think mega kenga actually needs a quick ban, he should be tested (as a suspect) and then be banned or not.

Here's the deal: He's strong as fuck, but then again, all megas are! The problem is that he gets a free Swords Dance whilst damaging, and that sends his already high attack (125) to the roof! Combine that with a base speed and he's gold. However, with the introduction of Sticky Web, I've never ever had a problem with Mega Kang as long as I put my Web up. With no Speed, his Sucker Punch fails to kill many threats and, you can easily go behind a sub with something like a Garchomp, killing it without taking many damage.

But! That also means that you probably will always have to run Sticky Web to deal with mega kanga, since he doesn't actually have a check (and by check, I mean something that can completely wall this mon and force a switch). The one and ONLY reason I'm not saying 'ban this broken this to hell' is because Mega stones are a new thing and, with that said, we should not be quick banning them before we actually have time to test it.
--------

Oh, with only access to priority Sucker Punch, the dogs (Terrakion, Virizion, Keldeo and Cobalion) actually LIKE to come in Mega Kanga, bluff a Scarf (or not) and hit something on your team for free. If Kanga decides to Sucker Punch, you get a +2 Dog. So there's that. For the love of god, stop quick banning mega stones. Do a suspect round first -_-

 

[zachmac]

I do agree this needs more time. It hasn't been long enough to discover all of the checks and counters.

Actually, there has been. Especially with everyone so desperate to look for them.

All the pokemon with massive defense? Seen them. Ghost? Tried those to. Revenge killing? Yeah, if you're alright with the fact that it will always get a chance to KO something.

all megas are!

They wish they all were, but having no items really holds them back.

Poor Mega Chomp.

Kanga doesn't get an item either, but it's ability is far, far better then the life orb could ever be.

However, with the introduction of Sticky Web, I've never ever had a problem with Mega Kang as long as I put my Web up.

You must reliably keep that up, which you can't if the foe has Defog. And if sticky web is set up on both sides, it makes no difference.

 

[Srn]

I do agree this needs more time. It hasn't been long enough to discover all of the checks and counters.

Please stop posting one-liners and read the thread thoroughly. EVERY POSSIBLE counter and check has been discussed, you just didn't read it and people don't want to clog up the thread even more just for you. We do not need more time, we need mega-mom out of OU ASAP.

 

[Subpar]

Mega-Kanga suffers from a disease called 4 move slots syndrome.

There's also another 5 fucking members backing up this 4 Moveslots Syndrome monster.

 

[S7ven]

*Table flip* COUNTERS DO NOT MAKE SOMETHING NOT BROKE
For the love of fucking god people stop this! Skarmory IS NOT A COUNTER it can whirlwind a mega khan out with its lovely -priority. What does this mean? IT TAKES DAMAGE EVERYTIME IT DOES THIS. Lucario is a CHECK for you people who do not get it: CHECK=/=COUNTER. You people have managed to give me a god damn headache allready, I wonder how many times we've looped around the circle? Lucario CANNOT come in on a PuP, or a +2 return. My apologies for the overly abusing bold but it just seems people cannot get the message, lets hope hammering it in helps...

Get Lucario Mega up before Mega-Kanga then...

 

[TROP]

Mega-Kanga suffers from a disease called 4 move slots syndrome.

More like: Do I want Kanga to rape Skarmory and Ferrothorn faster(Fire Punch) or do I want Kanga to obliterate all the immunes to her stab without risking a non attacking move to block Sucker Punch(Crunch)?

With Fire Punch it only misses the kill on Jellicent.
With Crunch it only misses the kill Ferrothorn because Return can 2hko Skarmory.

 

[Ropeburn]

Been using Kangaskhan lately..
252 Speed/252 Attack/4 HP
-Crunch
-Return
-Sucker Punch
-Power-up-Punch

I've been using it pre and post bank. It's really broken. If the opponent doesn't have a dedicated counter to it, the game's over from the teamview. If it gets off a PuP, the game is essentially gg. Terrakion and Keldeo are good checks, but the fact that it only has checks is ridiculous. The list of counters is pretty laughable. Also, stop bringing up Cofagrigus and Dusclops. Those are niche pokemon, and we should have to rely so heavily on pokemon that are not up to the snuff in OU.

 

[Lilymoding]

Please stop posting one-liners and read the thread thoroughly. EVERY POSSIBLE counter and check has been discussed, you just didn't read it and people don't want to clog up the thread even more just for you. We do not need more time, we need mega-mom out of OU ASAP.

No 1 how the hell do you know I didn't read it? And no 2, if I go through the log I'll find over 100 different checks and counters proved unworthy? Didn't think so... So don't say we checked everything, we just checked what immediately popped into our heads. I'll be back with a calc against eviolite gligar

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Why do I feel you're all being thoroughly rused

A halved 140bp facade is better than a halved 102 return

Facade ignores the Attack drop from Burn.

Here's the deal: He's strong as fuck, but then again, all megas are!

Now tell that to Alakazam lol. That argument doesn't make sense. If we banned two legendaries and went for a third, would you use that argument too, or realize legendaries aren't a cohesive group and that yes, some are stronger than others and may be broken after all?

The one and ONLY reason I'm not saying 'ban this broken this to hell' is because Mega stones are a new thing and, with that said, we should not be quick banning them before we actually have time to test it.

We've been testing Kangaskhanite for two months now, mate.