Metagame LC OM Megathread!

[RZL]

Thank you tazz
I was wondering, if people could start discussing the LC Monotype so, it may gain popularity as well. The viability ranks are definitely not exact, and I would like some people to help me refine them down even more than my council and I did so, everyone please discuss these. The ambiguities are mainly in B tier so, please help me because Fairy-type has literally enough Pokemon to make a team plus 3, or so useless ones.

 

[Holiday]

Please realize that I did this out of my own interest and to help people learn the meta. Of course, we're all still learning, so feel free to suggest rises and drops etc. As it stands, I have only ranked the pokemon that I have used. When me, and other users that express interest in this tier such as mad0ka and Cheir begin to use more pokemon, more will be added, meaning that this list will only grow with contributions from the community.

LC STABmons Viability Rankings

Welcome to the LC STABmons viability ranking project. In this project, we will "tier" every Pokemon based on usefulness. An initial tier list has already been made; if you think something should be moved up or down, post in this thread with your reasoning on why, and the change may be enacted.

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Viability Ranking Dude
For more controversial cases, the viability ranking dude will vote on the Pokemon's tiering.

Cheek Pouch

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Tier List

Without further ado, here is the initial tier list with the rough definitions of each tier (note: Pokemon are ordered alphabetically).

S-Rank

Reserved for the very best Pokemon in the LC STABmons metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Archen

Ferroseed

Fletchling

Munchlax
A-Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the LC STABmons metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.
A+

Bunnelby

Carvanha

Corphish

Porygon
A

Cottonee

Joltik

Larvesta

Pawniard

Purrloin


A-

Houndour

Mime Jr.

Shellder

Vulpix


B- Rank

Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC STABmons metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. Their niches are often slightly smaller than those that are in A and S rank, which leads them to face some competition for a teamslot.

B+

B

B-
C- Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC STABmons metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to find themselves outclassed by Pokemon in the above tiers, and face a lot of competition for a team slot.

C+

C

C-
D- Rank

Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the LC STABmons metagame, but are decent enough to justify their occasional use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Their niche is often so tiny that they are not worth putting on a team the majority of the time.

 

[thesecondbest]

This is assuming we have normal clause right? Anyways ryhorn to A for sure, i g2g but other noms can be made

 

[Holiday]

This is assuming we have normal clause right? Anyways ryhorn to A for sure, i g2g but other noms can be made

I've asked if I could lead STABmons, haven't gotten an answer back. If I can lead, I will get a council together to enact a few rules, such as a Normal Clause, Unreleased Moves Clause, and quickbanning Fletchling. To answer your question, yes, this was made w/ Normal Clause entact.

 

[Rowan]

I've asked if I could lead STABmons, haven't gotten an answer back. If I can lead, I will get a council together to enact a few rules, such as a Normal Clause, Unreleased Moves Clause, and quickbanning Fletchling. To answer your question, yes, this was made w/ Normal Clause entact.

js, the first Live tour will probably be STABmons, and anything that effects the OM Tour, I'll be having a final say in, though of course I will be taking into account the popular opinion

 

[tazz]

Id say that for now normal clause is on, goes with normal STABmons and is pretty obviously broken with smash pass belly pass etc

 

[kingmidas]

Id say that for now normal clause is on, goes with normal STABmons and is pretty obviously broken with smash pass belly pass etc

Is unfixable still running LC BH? A little off topic but I can take it over to get it ready, and this is an easy way to get a reply from.

 

[Melon]

I'll be getting AAA LC ready soon, I've been busy but I'll try to work on it when I can

 

[SocialSocialSocial]

Last year an LC Doubles tour was held and the biggest issue I've found with it looking back on it was the lack of creativity. I think the issue with this is partially because of there being mainly doubles players in the tournament, and us not knowing too much about the mons. There's a fair amount of people that seem to be interested in the tier, and I think it has the potential to grow into something fun for both LC, and Doubles.

I played against a few people and I've seen them get pretty creative with teams in ways that I would not expect. I was actually surprised by how much damage Meowth could put out and it made me want to put it on a team of my own.
I experimented with quite a few pokemon and had fairly interesting results.

With the plentiful amount of Pokemon in the LC tier I think that it can be made into a very interesting meta if we can get a good amount of players to commit to it.

Currently we have been using Scyther, Tangela, Sneasel, and Yanma as the banlist. It's quite small, but definitely has potential to grow. Swirlix has been considered to be added to it as well, which may be the best option.

Anyway, I hope I can strike some interest and get this started up again. If anyone has any questions on how to properly implement some Doubles strategies into LC(and vice verse) I can definitely help out.

 

[Nido-Rus]

How soon do you think you could get a viability ranking thread approved? Or would you rather leave that and try out a mini-tour first?

 

[SocialSocialSocial]

How soon do you think you could get a viability ranking thread approved? Or would you rather leave that and try out a mini-tour first?

Not really sure if we'd do a real viability ranking thread, but we could definitely do one in here.

I'll be leaving some good mon set/spread ideas in the comments later on. :]

 

[Berks]

How soon do you think you could get a viability ranking thread approved? Or would you rather leave that and try out a mini-tour first?

I believe we're putting the Viability Rankings in the OP. Also, I wanna help with LC Dubs if we do it, so whoever is TL for it n_n ily

 

[SocialSocialSocial]

To anyone who would like to create a team, but has no idea where to start for that team, I've got a few ideas of my own. Most of which I've tried out myself.

Fake Outters

Mega-Medicham (Meditite) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 76 Def / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Protect

With Meditite's Pure Power it has proven to be one of the strongest threats in the meta. I personally feel that it is the best fake outter, as well.
With the choice of Drain Punch in the set it can easily OHKO opposing Scraggy's, and Pawniards.
With the choice of Ice Punch in the set it can easily OHKO threats such as Gligar, or Foongus.
The typing is also fairly good, and the ability to take out such strong threats definitely puts it at an S rank threat by my standards.

Meowth @ Berry Juice
Ability: Technician
Level: 5
EVs: 4 HP / 236 Atk / 72 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Covet
- Protect

With Technician Meowth dishes out some pretty powerful utility moves. Feint is very valuable in Doubles because of protect being used on most Pokemon in the meta. I chose Covet with Berry juice to kind of try to be immortal. If Meowth keeps taking berry Juices it'll be very hard to take down outside of an OHKO.

Support Pokemon

Thundy (Murkrow) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 4 HP / 136 Atk / 180 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Tailwind / Thunder Wave

Murkrow is probably the top support mon in the tier atm, and will most likely be keeping that position for quite some time.
Personally I prefer the Tailwind set to easily take control of a game, but Thunder Wave can definitely help out. I personally feel that Thunder Wave will be a little less consistently a game winner.
With the STAB Brave Bird, and Atk EVs this little bird will successfully manage to nuke quite a few mons if used correctly.
With the STAB Sucker Punch one could definitely pick up random kills(possibly even surprise kills since some don't use SP). Sucker Punch is also quite useful with tailwind because it will cause you to just about always move before Fletchling's BB, and possibly pick up a KO.

Amoonguss yo (Foongus) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 188 HP / 160 Def / 160 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Protect

Foongus is definitely another great support mon. When used to its fullest potential it'll be able to allow one Pokemon to set up or easily sweep while it takes hits in its place. It should also definitely be dishing out some spores on threats.

Substitute Users

Note: Berry Juice helps a lot with Sub if it's needed that someone sets it up more than once
Not Even Tran (Houndour) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 196 SpA / 116 SpD / 196 Spe
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Heat Wave
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

When I decided to go with Houndour I was looking for something that I felt could put up its substitute, and stay behind it by picking up some quick kills with or without much support. This mon could definitely be used in trick room as well if bulk is preferred.
My experience with putting up a sub with Houndour is that people just don't know how to kill it. One opponent used Honedge for some wide guard support but Houndour can of course quite easily take it on with Dark Pulse.

Amaura @ Berry Juice
Ability: Refrigerate
Level: 5
EVs: 56 HP / 216 Def / 236 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Substitute
- Hyper Voice
- Earth Power
- Protect

So I opted for the quiet nature on this one because I feel that it is a whole lot better in trick room because of its low speed.
With Refrigerate Amaura becomes a lethal killer. Hyper voice easily OHKOs threats like Gligar or Foonguss, and can definitely do some real damage on quite a few other threats.
I personally would opt for Earth Power to be able to put damage when wide guard is about, and take on other threats such as Houndour.

Sun Core

Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 76 SpA / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball
- Protect

Vulpix is used along side with Bulbasaur in the core as the sun setter, but it definitely has potential to sweep as well, so a little bit of an investment in SpA can definitely prove useful. I chose Energy ball to mimic Charizard-Y in doubles in a way to be able to assist in battles against water types and rain teams.

Bulbasaur @ Berry Juice
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 236 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect

Bulbasaur is my personal favorite pokemon, and I'm happy to say that it's definitely viable. With Chlorophyll Bulbasaur becomes incredibly lethal. With a very strong STAB Solar Beam it'll easily OHKO grass weak mons, and can put out a respectable amount of damage with Sludge Bomb on neutrals, as well as fairies. Sleep Powder is added to the set for fairly obvious reason, to put things to sleep when needed.

Rain Core

Socal (Murkrow) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Prankster
Level: 5
EVs: 4 HP / 136 Atk / 180 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Rain Dance

So I pretty much just changed the original Murkrow I had by swapping out Tailwind for Rain Dance since that would be a form of speed control. Murkrow is great for setting up the rain because of its prankster.

C Dot Castro (Omanyte) @ Eviolite
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 4 HP / 196 SpA / 72 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Muddy Water
- Ancient Power
- Protect

I think Omanyte would prove to be incredible in rain with a dominant amount of speed, and strong scalds/muddy waters boosted by STABs and Rain. I threw Ancient Power on there for the STAB, but I'm sure there other viable options.

Trick Room Setters

Litwick @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 196 SpA / 76 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Protect

I personally like Litwick because of it is a bit more difficult to prevent from setting up trick room than other tr setters, that reason being because it is a ghost type, so can usually not be fake'd out. But that does not mean it will have a guarantee to set up.

Solosis @ Focus Sash / Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 236 SpA / 36 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball / Calm Mind / Dream Eater
- Protect

Sash is meant to assist in setting up tr since it may get OHKO'd by an opposing mon before it gets to. The Eviolite set would be best with Calm Mind if you're feeling it.
Solosis also has quite a bind of SpA so it can put out some real damage, and with a bulk buff from both Eviolite, and Calm Mind it'll be very scary.

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Wish / Aromatherapy

While the EVs can certainly be optimized a lot more, Spritzee is a really good setter and cleric. One of its biggest advantages over other setters like Solosis or something else who can utilize TR offensively is Aroma Veil. Spritzee can't be taunted to stop TR from getting up and in Doubles it provides the little bonus of giving the same effect to its partner. It also stops Encore, if someone's running a Cottonee or something. Combined with Spritzee's great bulk, it's almost always able to get up TR, and Fairy is still a damn good attacking type considering Krow and Tite.

Choice Scarfers

Amaura @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Refrigerate
Level: 5
EVs: 4 HP / 220 SpA / 56 SpD / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ancient Power
- Hyper Voice
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt

So I actually just went up against this except with a timid nature
It proved to be quite good, and definitely caught me off guard. Amaura has a pretty nice move pool, and the user definitely took advantage of it.

Pain In Yo's (Cranidos) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 60 SpD / 212 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

Cranidos has the ability to put out an incredible amount of damage, but with its low speed/bulk it can often be killed before fulfilling that potential. A choice scarf allows Cranidos to peak that potential. In Doubles Spread Moves deal 75% of the normal damage they would, but Sheer Force more than makes up for it with a 30% boost.

Redirectors

Togepi @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 36 Atk / 76 Def / 156 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Follow Me
- Soft-Boiled
- Body Slam
- Protect

Togepi has got some fantastic bulk and therefore definitely does a great job of redirecting attacks. I run serene grace body slam for a high para chance, and 0 Spe IVs just in case I need some help in trick room.

Amoonguss yo (Foongus) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 188 HP / 160 Def / 160 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Giga Drain
- Protect

So Foongus is showing up again for its redirection move rage powder. I think it's pretty self explanatory, but this mon will usually hold up better than other redirectors if a grass type is needed.

Set-Up Sweepers

Fletchling
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 92 Def / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Tailwind
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Protect

Fletchling definitely has the ability to set up and breeze through opposing Pokemon with +2 and priority. It can become extremely hard to ko with tailwind up, and proper use of protect. The damage it has the ability to put out is no less than devastating.

bug (Dwebble) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Shell Smash
- Protect

Anyways, one of the sets I've been using is SturdyJuice Shell Smash Dwebble, along with redirection from RP Foonguss. It's been p good so far and I like the fact that it also has spread damage in Rock Slide. What truly makes it good tho is the nature of SturdySmash, kinda like you have to kill it "thrice" if played really well, and that it can also set up on some threats and go turn the tables around p quickly. That makes it very dangerous imo, especially if paired along with redirection support to remove the possibility of hits and status.
-Memoric

Doubles LC Viability Rankings: http://pastebin.com/sinJuhrq (to be edited)

Took a while, but here you go guys. I hope it attracts a little bit of attention. :)

 

[Merritt]

Trick Room is a very viable strategy in LC Doubles, and you should all use it. Not really (don't actually all use it), but it really screws with the T-wave/Tailwind Krow and the rain/sun/sand teams by making all their speed suddenly worthless. My personal favorite for TR setters is Spritzee though.

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Wish / Aromatherapy

While the EVs can certainly be optimized a lot more, Spritzee is a really good setter and cleric. One of its biggest advantages over other setters like Solosis or something else who can utilize TR offensively is Aroma Veil. Spritzee can't be taunted to stop TR from getting up and in Doubles it provides the little bonus of giving the same effect to its partner. It also stops Encore, if someone's running a Cottonee or something. Combined with Spritzee's great bulk, it's almost always able to get up TR, and Fairy is still a damn good attacking type considering Krow and Tite.

SocialSocialSocial you have a small typo at the very end with Cranidos. Sheer Force is a 30% boost, not 50%, and so makes up for it pretty much exactly. Most of the time.

Mold Breaker Singles:
236 Atk Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-10 (25.9 - 37%) -- 82.5% chance to 3HKO
236 Atk Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sheer Force Doubles:
236 Atk Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 7-10 (25.9 - 37%) -- 82.5% chance to 3HKO
236 Atk Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 116 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

However, there are exceptions where Sheer Force doesn't quite make up the difference. Standard Singles Foongus (you need to change your EV spread of the foongus you listed, the HP is off) is one of these.

236 Atk Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 124 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
236 Atk Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 124 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 7-10 (28 - 40%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO

Otherwise, thanks for sharing all those sets!

 

[tazz]

I'm trying to get a banlist together for LC doubles, as a lot of the broken stuff in LC is balanced by doubles. this is what i'm thinking that should be banned:

Yanma, Swagger, Dragon Rage, Sonicboom, Tangela, Sneasel, Scyther

I'd like to have some thoughts as to if gligar and swirlix should be banned.

Also boo836 you've been pretty busy lately, is it okay if I let Cheek Pouch lead? We need to get things going for the tour

 

[kingmidas]

Hi guys, running LC BH now, gonna wait until I get a council running but for now am considering an archen ban, I have a lot to write but don't actually want it yet so just gonna see thoughts on it.

 

[Holiday]

I'm trying to get a banlist together for LC doubles, as a lot of the broken stuff in LC is balanced by doubles. this is what i'm thinking that should be banned:

Yanma, Swagger, Dragon Rage, Sonicboom, Tangela, Sneasel, Scyther

I'd like to have some thoughts as to if gligar and swirlix should be banned.

Also boo836 you've been pretty busy lately, is it okay if I let Cheek Pouch lead? We need to get things going for the tour

He already gave me privilege to lead.

 

[Merritt]

I'm trying to get a banlist together for LC doubles, as a lot of the broken stuff in LC is balanced by doubles. this is what i'm thinking that should be banned:

Yanma, Swagger, Dragon Rage, Sonicboom, Tangela, Sneasel, Scyther

I'd like to have some thoughts as to if gligar and swirlix should be banned.

Gligar is handleable, and Swirlix is only slightly less so. One of Gligar's biggest issues in standard LC was its usage and utility, which are severely less pronounced in doubles. It's probably still the best rock setter and defogger in LC doubles, it's just that, well... It's hazard control in doubles.

Swirlix is significantly less problematic compared to singles, as its strength in standard is its boosting sets. While it can still do a boost in doubles, it's very hard pressed to get off two. Belly Drum is really very eh, considering how there's two targets on the field and Swirlix has to deal with taking two attacks before the drum so it'll be lower on HP before beginning its attack, and TR or prankster speed control really mess with it. CGCM can work, but it takes a while to actually get up to strength, while again it's taking a lot of attacks. Personally I think it's very handleable but I can see how it can be difficult at times.

Two things I'd like to ask about are Sneasel and Sleep. While Tangela and Scyther are extremely strong even in doubles due to their fantastic bulk and power, Sneasel lacks in the whole bulk department. It's no slouch in its bulk, certainly, but it has its issues. I'd like it tested in some sort of way before auto-banning it, since it reminds me a bit of Darkrai in DOU. It was quickbanned in the original thread, so I'm not sure if any sort of testing has been done with it.

Sleep Clause could be a thing. I've never been a huge fan of the unban (or unclause, whatever) and I want to get a read of how it might be handled. If it's a "keep sleep clause off" then sure, I can see your reasons. On the other hand, if you're willing to give us a sleep clause then Yanma might be able to be considered for an unban too, since without sleep clause it really is quite a monster.

Edit: Emphasized that Gligar's big role in singles sucks in doubles through clever use of bold.

 

[SocialSocialSocial]

Gligar is handleable, and Swirlix is only slightly less so. One of Gligar's biggest issues in standard LC was its usage and utility, which are severely less pronounced in doubles. It's probably still the best rock setter and defogger in LC doubles, it's just that, well... It's hazard control in doubles.

Swirlix is significantly less problematic compared to singles, as its strength in standard is its boosting sets. While it can still do a boost in doubles, it's very hard pressed to get off two. Belly Drum is really very eh, considering how there's two targets on the field and Swirlix has to deal with taking two attacks before the drum so it'll be lower on HP before beginning its attack, and TR or prankster speed control really mess with it. CGCM can work, but it takes a while to actually get up to strength, while again it's taking a lot of attacks. Personally I think it's very handleable but I can see how it can be difficult at times.

Two things I'd like to ask about are Sneasel and Sleep. While Tangela and Scyther are extremely strong even in doubles due to their fantastic bulk and power, Sneasel lacks in the whole bulk department. It's no slouch in its bulk, certainly, but it has its issues. I'd like it tested in some sort of way before auto-banning it, since it reminds me a bit of Darkrai in DOU. It was quickbanned in the original thread, so I'm not sure if any sort of testing has been done with it.

Sleep Clause could be a thing. I've never been a huge fan of the unban (or unclause, whatever) and I want to get a read of how it might be handled. If it's a "keep sleep clause off" then sure, I can see your reasons. On the other hand, if you're willing to give us a sleep clause then Yanma might be able to be considered for an unban too, since without sleep clause it really is quite a monster.

I deeefinitely don't think sleep clause should be on
Also, hazards are not common at all in Doubles. Nowhere near as useful.

 

[Holiday]

I deeefinitely don't think sleep clause should be on
Also, hazards are not common at all in Doubles. Nowhere near as useful.

I can attest. Switching is seen p much next to none in Doubles due to the different pace of the match to singles.

 

[SocialSocialSocial]

Trick Room is a very viable strategy in LC Doubles, and you should all use it. Not really (don't actually all use it), but it really screws with the T-wave/Tailwind Krow and the rain/sun/sand teams by making all their speed suddenly worthless. My personal favorite for TR setters is Spritzee though.

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Wish / Aromatherapy

While the EVs can certainly be optimized a lot more, Spritzee is a really good setter and cleric. One of its biggest advantages over other setters like Solosis or something else who can utilize TR offensively is Aroma Veil. Spritzee can't be taunted to stop TR from getting up and in Doubles it provides the little bonus of giving the same effect to its partner. It also stops Encore, if someone's running a Cottonee or something. Combined with Spritzee's great bulk, it's almost always able to get up TR, and Fairy is still a damn good attacking type considering Krow and Tite.

I put this little piece in trick room setters :)

 

[Shrug]

I was dicking around with moderate success in STABmons and came up with some things that either work for sure or seem good and are in need of further testing.

- Honedge: the two biggest threats in STABmons are birds and espeeders; this don stops up both with extreme ease. I run a King's Shield / Meteor Mash / Sacred Sword / Rock Slide set, and it puts in considerable work - The setup / espeed thing is kind of killed, and Fletch doesnt do shit in exchange for a donk from Rock Slide. An easy check for some of the meta's most formidable offensive mons, Honedge is a staple on my teams so far.

- Prio is God: people really like outrunning shit in STABmons, and the main way to do it is with priority. Mons that dont usually get Prio are now wielding it (Espeeders like Bunnelby); mons that have weak or more limited prio in regular lc ala Fletchling, Carvanha, Corph are now hammering foes with stronger moves. A lot of the meta now revolves around nullifying the foe's priority or bumping it out with fastmoves of your own.

- The meta feels super vast: When normal lc battles pop up, I'm experienced enough to recognize team archetypes, ID threats, know what each mon is about to do in general etc. In current, young STABmons, theres none of that sense. The addition of moves means one cannot be certain of the purpose of any given mon (i.e, see Munchlax as a Belly Drum / Espeed sweeper) or how an opposing team fits together. Therefore, people look for blanket checks - they seem to say "how can i avoid getting swept by anything I cant see coming?" A tip: dont worry about being swept during tests. Thats how you suss out threats and develop counters; relying on blanket failsafes leads to you just not understanding the meta as well (p much no one understands much at this point, you arent alone) so try things! No Abra in this tier heheheheehehehehe

 

[Berks]

Oml if we're doing this LC Dubs thing guess who becomes viableeeeeeeee

Litleo @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
Level: 5
EVs: 20 HP / 52 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Heat Wave
- Noble Roar
- Taunt / Fire Blast

That's two STAB spread moves coming off of 17 Special Attack and 17 Speed, along with a spread support move! Real fun, real fun. Taunt can stop opposing Tailwind, Trick Room, Rain Dance, and the likes, whereas Fire Blast gets around Wide Guard.

I'm so freaking excited for this, you have no idea

E: Duh. Protect. Duh. #tooexcited

 

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Oml if we're doing this LC Dubs thing guess who becomes viableeeeeeeee

Litleo @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
Level: 5
EVs: 20 HP / 52 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Heat Wave
- Noble Roar
- Taunt / Fire Blast

That's two STAB spread moves coming off of 17 Special Attack and 17 Speed, along with a spread support move! Real fun, real fun. Taunt can stop opposing Tailwind, Trick Room, Rain Dance, and the likes, whereas Fire Blast gets around Wide Guard.

I'm so freaking excited for this, you have no idea

Definitely run Protect on that pokemon :P

 

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Today I'll most likely be holding a minitour through challonge for Doubles LC to try check out some sets, and hopefully bring new mons will be brought to the tier. I'm personally loving the creativity I'm seeing coming from people, and definitely am hoping for more. :)

But yeah, definitely let me know if you'd like to play so I know whether or not we can get a decent amount of people in the tour.