Serious LGBTQ

[Chloe]

Today is the day I finally find enough courage within myself to post on this thread. Everyday for the last month, I've clicked on this thread and stared at it for half an hour before deciding I wasn't ready to share anything about myself, however that changes today hopefully. So I'm trans-female, I found that out a while back and my life hasn't been the same since. I usually don't share much on forums/Showdown, however I felt that talking about it might help, also I'm not enjoying having to explain my situation every time someone sees Female on my profile. Here's my story.

I'm at a point where I don't know who to talk to. When I decide to talk to someone about it I get too embarrassed and end up having to deal with it myself. My family and friends are both extremely narrow minded when it comes to anything that defies their traditional beliefs. I am depressed all the time, hence I can't concentrate on anything else anymore and am relying on Showdown/Smogon to keep my mind off it.

I've always wanted to be a girl for as long as I can remember, thinking back to primary school (elementary school), I remember having some "weird obsession" with being feminine. My whole entire life has been encompassed by these thoughts however the discovery of my dysphoria was only recent. I don't know how to explain how I felt before but I can definitely explain my feelings now. I feel terrible all the time, which is distracting and not at all helpful to my studies.

I've grown up in a male-only strict Catholic school, which doesn't help much. I've heard one of my teacher's views on transgender people and his views aren't pretty. The school has a counselling system, which I've been tempted to go to, but I fear that even the counsellors will share similar views. I've tried going to friends but one of my friends has also verbally expressed negative views on transgender people. One of my closest friends (not the same one) noticed how depressed I was one day and persisted at harassing me until I told him what was wrong. I made a terrible mistake and told him and now he seems awfully evasive of me.

As for my parents, it only gets worse. My father constantly shares his 1960s ideologies, which are homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, etc. I've never been able to have a serious conversation with him about anything going on with me and thus I often just let him bring up stuff when we talk to avoid conflict. My mother's a bit better, however she still shares similar views and I still wouldn't feel comfortable talking to her about it either.

I've talked to a few people I know on showdown about it, which has seemed to ease the pressure a little bit, but I need to talk to someone irl that can help me do something about it, rather than just me wishing I was something I'm not 24 hours a day. Thanks to Rhythms, Dream Eater Gengar, baconbagon, GonxKillua for making my life that tiny bit better when I needed comfort in times of distress. I don't know how I'd still be this mentally stable without you all. I still feel the need to talk to someone offline, because this depression makes me feel like shit and there's only so much support someone on the other side of a computer screen can give.

I have considered talking to my parents about it, despite their negative views hoping that their opinion would change just for me, that they'd be accepting just for me. But then again, I freeze up and end up saying nothing. My parents have noticed my excessive sadness, and have questioned me about it, however I end up always coming up with an excuse because of the embarrassment my dysphoria causes me.

I don't know what else to do, but any sense of being feminine (whether it be clothing, pronouns, cosmetics, e.t.c) just makes me feel a bit better. However, those things alone don't solve the underlying problem which controls my everyday thoughts. I just want to be female.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

 

[bb skarm]

so i guess now that i'm walking away from things, i want to leave with a positive message regarding myself. tl;dr: yeah, i'm not a guy. i'm a transgender girl named amber. let's get into it.

all of my life i've felt different. and up until a few months ago i'd felt really sure that it was just me being gay. which i'm not by the way, i've become more open to the spectrum of sexuality and consider myself bisexual. but that's besides the point. after a lot of thought and self-realization i realized that i looked in the mirror and saw someone behind a mask. i've been raised as a boy, and i'm not one. i am a girl.

the worst part is knowing that i'll never be able to come out. god, i don't even know how i'd tell anyone. i feel... ashamed. i know people just say "well accept yourself! love it! any haters can be removed from your life!" but it's just... not that simple. i couldn't do it, especially not right now. my friends on here have helped me so much. thank you starry blanket, Eevee General, and Reverb, along with SteelEdges and Private_PenQuin to coming to myself. really, m00ns has helped me learn to love myself. love m00ns.

anyways, i just. i want to wear dresses. i want boobs. i want to be called she/her. i want to wear makeup. i want long hair. i want to feel... pretty. not handsome. and i will, one day. i don't think i'll ever change my sex parts, and that's just personal preference; definitely nothing against anybody who chooses to. i believe that is a personal choice, and one that i do not wish to partake in. it just scares me. i'm worried i'll never find love if i don't do that. finding someone who loves me unconditionally... it'll happen one day. it may not be today, but one day. i know i'll get there one day.

that's basically it. i just wanted to come out and share a bit of my story to people on here. i'm sick of being called 'he' or 'him'. it almost feels like an insult, even though i know 100% it's not. it just hurts because i'm not a boy. so yeah, i'd like to ask for my fellow members to call me with female pronouns to be respectful. i can't live a lie any longer, and i'm leaving behind rylan. i'm amber now. i always have been. to finish this off, a quote.

– "So does this mean you're going to be wearing girl's clothing from now on?"
– "Oh honey. I've been wearing boy's clothing since I was born. But not anymore. Now I wear my clothing. My very own, girl, clothing."

–– Transparent​

amber let me tell you something fam.

i have two transgender family members who went through the same shit and theyre fine now. real happy. both living in massachusetts with great jobs and families (which means they're MARRIED to TWO different people. that should give you a ton of hope) and lots of friends. you're always gonna be mildly inconvenienced by this because it's taken a huge portion of your life but that's not going to stop you from being happy. i know that you'll find love and you'll have a great family and you'll be legitimately content with your life and i promise. i'm straight so i usually give dogshit advice on this but i know that being homosexual or bisexual or transsexual is very widely accepted across the united states of america and nobody relevant is going to judge you for your choices (was being trans your choice? dont answer if you dont want to but it sounds like it wasnt) and those who do judge you are not people you want and thats how you WEED PEOPLE OUT OF YOUR LIFE. nah but real talk dude you're gonna be real real happy because you've come to terms with this and i can't even believe you have i am very impressed because (as an example) my dad left me years ago and i still am stunned to this day about the whole ordeal and dont think ill ever accept it in my life, so the mere fact that you're announcing something of this caliber to everyone on smogon is absolutely crazy and you should feel excellent. you're gonna be really happy man and im glad that you want to be who you think you are

edit: by the way amber is a hella hot name fam. just sayin

 

[dhelmise]

the person reading this

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I've been debating posting this for a while now, but after seeing unfixable's and Zangooser's posts, I think I am ready. Basically I am genderfluid. Originally, I just kinda thought that everybody would have these swings in gender. Oh how I was wrong.

Ever since I was little, I had alternating feelings about my gender. Some days I'd feel like a typical boy, others I'd want to try to use my mom's nail polish (smells like shit), and then some days I'd just feel like I was between female and male on the gender spectrum, neutrois, for example.

Depending on what my gender identification is at the time, I walk, talk, interact with people, and in general act differently. Whenever I'm identifying as Female, or anything that leans closer to female, I tend to always hang out with a more feminine friend group, and vice versa with male.

I'm mostly just posting here because I'm tired of people using "he/him" to refer to me. I don't have a problem with this normally, but it just bothers me on literally every day when I'm not he/him. Now obviously it's a bit difficult to be referred to exactly how I want 24/7, but I just want to be referred to as they/them.

I haven't really had very many issues IRL about this, mostly because nobody knows this time, but it's starting to get tough just keeping this to myself. I'm also in a very similar situation as Zangooser, where a lot of my friends openly express their (not so) kind opinions on gender identity. My parents aren't the most accepting of anything that isn't cis-gendered + heterosexual, but they're always willing to accept change. At the moment, I don't really need someone to talk to, but every day I'm starting to wish I had someone. This is starting to bring me mild depression, but I'm just going to tough it out until I know what to do.

Don't really have anyone to thank for talking to about this except Zangooser and baconbagon, but yeah, thanks for reading.

also shoutouts Peef Rimgar because weeb

i was wrong again im boy

 

[Scyther NO Swiping]

A year ago today I finally came out of the closet, and told everyone I was gay. I couldn't do it by myself, so I had my best friend come over so she could be there with me. I had my parents come into my room and sit down, and then I just came out with it. My parents took the news as well as they possibly could. They seemed happy for me, and not surprised (which shocked me honestly because I've been told I hide it really well). After I told them I just started crying hysterically (which again surprised me because I like never cry over anything). They just tried to get me to stop crying, and told me that they didn't care. After while they left me alone with my friend.

Pretty much as soon as they left, I hugged my friend and started crying again. But I wasn't done coming out to people yet. I wanted to just have the secret out, so I got my computer and came out on Facebook and Twitter in a super long emotional post. And again the support I received was overwhelming, I didn't have anyone come and say any negative thing against me. About 15 minutes after I made my Facebook post, my cousin called me. She told me she loved me, and then she told me that she too was gay, and my post inspired her to come out to her mom about it. This really broke me down and made me realize how good a decision coming out was to me. I've always considered my self a quiet, low maintence individual, but to know I inspired someone else was just an amazing feeling for me.

A year later, I still look back and realize how glad I am that I came out that day. And I would not have been able to do it without help from my amazing friends. A lot of time people don't realize how much a little support can mean to a LGBT person. In a world where there is still so much negativity towards LGBT individuals, it just means so much to know you have someone on your side, and fighting with you. It took me such a long time to build up the courage to come out, and I was even lucky enough to come from a high school that was extremely open and accepting to the LGBT community. I just had to wait until the time was right for me to come out. All this being said, I still feel like I have a ways to go on my sexuality journey. There are still some questions for myself that I still need to answer. I still have a lot of things, thoughts and feelings that I'm still trying to figure out, but I'm sure I'll figure them out in good time, whenever I'm ready.

 

[Minwu]

i'm in the same spot with not being able to come out, and it is a common and valid experience. trans people are individuals and there's no rulebook that everyone can follow on coming out and transitioning (to whatever degree you may want) safely and smoothly :( my present mindset is just hiding it from my family forever if I can manage and being me in my own home if I get one... I don't think I could repair some relationships if I came out and I don't want to lose them either

 

[dice]

maybe i'm just callous, but i didn't find coming out to be very cathartic. my mom always hinted she knew my sexuality wasn't standard, so when i finally felt comfortable to tell her it wasn't that big of a deal. for me anyway, i didn't find it necessary. i just didn't want the persistent elephant in the room to keep impeding our relationship. it's kind of a weird dynamic really-- this uneasiness b/c of some untold secret. it only really hit the feels when she was so overjoyed i told her.

i totally understand why you would feel otherwise, though. i am glad u are in a better place w/ your situation.

e: this post read strangely. i guess my biggest qualm with my situation was that i felt as though i 'had to' come out. i had other circumstances which kinda forced my hand too. it wasn't really of my own gumption which really detracted from it all. i just dislike the emphasis of sexuality in a lot of respects, too. i don't want it ever to become a core part of my identity. i'd rather be seen as a compassionate person, diligent worker, or w/e and (in my very jaded view of 'coming out') i feel like emphasizing my sexuality to others is blindsighting them of me. i mean, i do it too. 'that gay dude' is the first identifier that comes to mind for atypical people, so idk.

 

[Mystifi]

Hm, I didn't know this was a thing, but now that I do I'll make the best of it. ^_^

About a year ago, I realized I had a crush on a guy in one of my classes. I got really confused - was this natural? - but I didn't think much of it at first. However, as the year went on, I really began noticing them more than just the occasional glance. It was then I knew I could not have just been "straight".

I had a girlfriend at the time (which, sadly, I realized I only had at the time simply because that was what everyone was in to, and the same happened with her. We mutually found ourselves to be LGBTQ+ and have remained good friends), so I didn't think I could have been gay. I mean, what would the others have said? I tried denying it.

Then came the later half of my eighth grade year, when I was 13 (I skipped the seventh). I had an amazing friend to hang out with, and who I still KIT with, who helped me figure out that I was, in fact, gay.

I didn't think it was possible, but so many people accepted me in real life and on PS! In fact, one of the first issues I brought into THP was a thing about my sexuality. I came out to parents and friends, and I am confident in being a part of the LGBTQ+ community. I wish all others luck in either coming out or just accepting yourself, because you're beautiful despite the gender(s) you like.

 

[ryan]

short post because i'm half way out the door on the way to work but coming out these days is generally so much easier than it used to be. not to trivialize it for other people because it is still important and it can still be a struggle, but it's great that society has come so far in accepting gays and gay culture. i came out over nine years ago and even though it had its moments and i lost a couple friends, overall, it really wasn't that difficult. even in a small town environment, kids naturally lean toward rebellion, and coming out is the biggest proverbial middle finger to the suburban dream, which makes it easier for everyone else to be on board.

regardless, if you're still trapped in the mindset that people are going to hate you or judge you or treat you differently, try to break that unless you know it to be fact because a lot of people really don't care anymore in the most positive way possible. there will still be some judgement but that comes from any decision or self-declaration you make.

 

[Ramses]

if we just learned not to hate and realize love is love, the world would be a lot better off.

 

[vonFiedler]

-Magic-

I disagree with the idea that homosexuality IS a sin, and certainly many religious viewpoints on them

But you've got a very fundamental misunderstanding of that viewpoint, which is that Christians see themselves as sinners. It's like saying that we're all human and no one should feel singled out for being flawed.

 

[Hektor]

-Magic- Thanks very much for that post. As a practicing Christian, I'd been mentally struggling with that very dichotomy for quite some time; I knew I thought something along the lines of your stance, but for the life of me I couldn't articulate my stance beyond the saying you took issue with (and I noticed the problem too!). You provided the words for my point of view before I could figure them out myself.

I actually find not practicing condemnation quite the growth experience for my faith, in addition to being better for my mental health as a non-binary person. It's a good exercise of my belief to recall that God is the one and only true authority for this world and judgment is His alone. I just wish more people would focus on their personal relationships with God and on spreading His love and peace, like I was taught to do.

Sadly, my parents don't think like I do. They hardly preach constantly against the LGBT community, but when they get rolling, they just. don't. stop. And their beliefs are pretty absolutist, as in never accept anyone LGBT ever. So, despite my very real, very strong desire to talk to them about it, to help them look at the community-- at ME, their child-- through the lens of Gos's love rather than of prejudice... I can't risk opening my mouth about my identity anywhere near them. Not at least until I'm totally financially independent, and perhaps longer still. And this affects who in my circle of friends I can talk to as well, because many of them come into contact with my parents and I can't ask them in good conscience to lie for me (use the wrong pronouns, give evasive answers or outright lie if my parents ask them about me). So, that's been quite the little ball of stress for me lately. I'm inspired by all of your successful coming-out stories, though, so thanks for the bit of hope!

Edit: vonFiedler I'd like to point out that, in my experience (which I admit is geographically limited), Christians don't call themselves sinners in the same way they call LGBT people sinners. All the experience I have seems to imply that the people I've observed believe the sins of, say, a gay person are somehow more permanent and/or prominent than their own, which isn't right by me regardless of whether or not they call themselves sinners.

 

[Mystifi]

Hm. My views on Christians when pertaining to the realm(s) of homosexuality basically pertain to: I'm alright if Christians decide not to like me or accept me as it doesn't personally affect me; I won't, however, tolerate a Christian forcing religion on me to to "turn" me - dunno how else to word this? - straight. (Before this sounds really mean, it has happened to me before [possibly because I just tend to live in a community where Christianity is more prominent in every day life]). I've only had it happen once, as they were just a very narrow-minded person that even a few of my Christian friends didn't like.

TL, DR: I don't mind Christians and their views, specifically if they like me or not. It's their life, and they can have their outlooks. However, due to an unpleasant experience, I don't like it if a Christian feels the need to enforce their religion and beliefs on me in an attempt to "change me".

 

[dice]

it's worth remembering that, though we believe our own patterns of life are natural and abiding, human life and culture is transient. homosexuality mentioned in the bible is vastly different than it is today, and there has been a major shift in focus and equality.

in the new testament, there are relatively few mentions of sexuality and sex as a whole. besides emphasis on the danger of lust (better to gouge your eye out than burn in hell) and the "he is without sin cast the first stone" re: adultery, mentions of jesus talking about sex and the likes are kinda few, far, and in between in my view.

it's also important to note that the terms heterosexual and homosexual are as recently of an addition to our vernacular as 200 years ago. they were presumably coined to describe a new understanding of same-sex sex and same-sex attraction that was previously misunderstood. homosexuality today is far different than homosexuality 2000 years ago or even 500 years ago, and that's why it's i find it important to understand the historical significance of it.

in cultures like florence during the renaissance era (~14th century), approximately ~20% of men indicted by the night police for being caught undergoing homoerotic acts, attending orgies, etc. if 1/5 of all men in the culture were only caught, you can imagine the large amount of men who did partake in these sexual acts. the reasoning for this abnormally large amount of queer acts was because of an appropriation of younger men. older males would take a teen under their wings and "teach them the ways" of becoming a man. within this relationship a sexual bond would also form. an older male would act as the penetrator while the teen would be the penetratee. if you were a penetrator, it created a sense of status and power. you could "control" someone else. given that women were kept under lock during this era, the fact that they couldn't penetrate similarly degrades their societal standing. the penetrators were "men", and until the young boy aged enough to take one under his wing, he wouldn't evolve in social status.

in the spartan militias (b.c.), sexual bonds between men was also a common praxis. as the men felt a palpable connection to their comrade(s), it would result in one of the most dangerous armies its time only to be defeated by the thebians which employed similar practices between their men.

both of these cases of queer acts within society, there wasn't an equality between the couple in the relationship. sex was seen as a means to an end-- status, power, control. the ubiquity of homosexual equality in relationships hasn't been seen until the past few hundred years. this could be argued for women as well, but it was much more of a hostile, degrading, and forceful environment for men.

(note: there isn't much literature on lesbians as they were mostly kept under lock and key and often their sex wasn't see as sex due to the lack of penetration. therefore, i'm only talking about men)

this huge tangent is mainly trying to demonstrate how tumultuous of a path queers have faced in society and how the lens the church viewed man x man is FAR FAR different from what we see it as today. history has drastically changed the dynamic of gay relationships into fostering (in my view) a much more healthy culture today.

much like there are myriad interpretations of anything in the bible, scholars also have mixed feelings on the issue. the extremists who view homosexuality as a sexual orientation as a sin are, by and large, mostly nonexistent. there are some interesting parallels drawn here from the "gouge your eye out" parable-- many magisterial teaching suggest that only acting upon your homosexual urges is sinful. ergo, celibacy is one of the many and most common interpretations that homosexuals follow. the term "sodomy" today has far difference uses today than in historical times. for many, sodomy is a sexual act which doesn't result in procreation. this could even entail kissing, lusting, hugging, etc. depending on your interpretation. conservatives suggest that sodomy shouldn't happen for anyone, especially homosexuals. more progressives have either disregarded this or accepted it much like other extreme christian ordains-- it's all a matter of how far you read into the bible and what you make of it.

in my view, you shouldn't take archaic takes of homosexuality as law. you should abide by how you feel as a person. society is fluid. gender is fluid. biology is fluid. you have the agency to be whatever gender, person, sexuality, etc. that you feel you are. this was written in a time when homosexuality was far different (and not even a term) than it is today. get out of the bible what you wish. i find that jesus's focus on judgment is key here-- do what you feel is right, and allow others to do the same. if you're a christian, i don't think you should feel at odds with your religion by any means. there is a place for homosexuality in the church.

e: jrp mentioned how he viewed the new testament as far more relevant. i too agree with that.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

On the issues of religious texts, the view many religious people espouse of homosexuality/any degree of liking the same sex as being "sinful" has contributed to my harshly negative view of religion. For one, I already hate how people feel the need to indoctrinate their children into their religion as I feel this violates the child's agency to choose their own belief system when they have the capacity to give informed consent. The notion of "lgbtq+ are sinners, repent or go to hell" just seems even worse given this prevalence of religious indoctrination. I'm an atheist, so the Westboro Baptist Church telling me I'm going to Hell doesn't bother me because I don't even think Hell exists. However, a gay Christian, or a gay Jew, or a gay *insert religion here* or whatever is going to feel threatened by this, like saying who they are is a violation of their religion. LGBTQ+ suicide rates are really not surprising given everything I've said in this post.

Think about it. You indoctrinate your child into a religion. Then, you (or, hell, even some other person who shares the same religion as you do) use that religion you indoctrinated them into to make them feel bad about who they are and then take them to (religiously-motivated) conversion therapy. Of course, conversion therapy doesn't work. You've made them feel bad about who they are, and they naturally have realized conversion therapy doesn't work. They're certainly severely depressed. They feel obligated to follow the religion to a T (because that's what indoctrination does), and yet feel that they can't do so simply because of who they are. At this point, they may well see suicide as the only way out, and even the ones who don't kill themselves will probably live lives of substance abuse (alcoholism and smoking are more prevalent among LGBTQ+ people than cisgender straight people).

Of course, this isn't true of all Christians. You'll find many Christians who reject this notion of homosexuality being un-Christian. But I think the very fact that religion can be twisted to be used for such despicable purposes is indicative of something being wrong with the religion itself.

 

[vonFiedler]

If you're filtering out all the bad parts of your religion, are you really practicing that religion?

I'm filtering out no part of my religion. Jesus never spoke about homosexuality. Not once.

Those who spoke about sodomy were in reference to the practice at the time of fucking little boys while they had a wife. As has been stated, the idea of homosexuality didn't really exist for over a thousands years after the new testament. It's like when people say coffee is a sin.

edit: I'll add some more stuff here, because it ties into what Jynx says below, but I certainly don't want to make the LGBT thread into something about religion.

I spent 2 years among bapists. Bad things aside, these people thought the most Christian way to live was with a white picket fence, a secure job, two kids and a wife. The nuclear paradigm that has existed less than a hundred years, and these people somehow saw it in the bible. But that's what some people do. Some people get their morality from their religion (a healthy dose of skepticism and rationality is good too), and some people take the cultural morality that develops around them and try to shove it into their religion.

 

[jumpluff]

personally I've found secular people just as hateful of me as a trans person and they don't even need religious norms, just positivism. and I am an atheist who is often suicidal due to dysphoria, inability to be out, inability to transition in what limited ways are available to me, inability to be seen. indoctrination occurs outside of religion too, it occurs in schools and the state and pretty much any other ideological institution. you can't blame suicide rates just on religion, I'm not 'defending' religion so much as questioning your very offensively reductive analysis of the Queer Plight. religion is not the only social issue facing lgbtq people and it is not the only set of norm systems informing oppression of lgbtq people

I'd go into it more but what do you know, I'm on the way to the psych ward right now

 

[Cresselia~~]

I don't think people hate homosexuality just because it's a "sin".
Take Japan as an example, homosexuality has never been a religious taboo in Japanese religions (buddhism, shintoism, etc)
But it's still difficult for Japanese LGBT people to come out because it's not the "norm".

Some people simply are disgusted with things that are not the "norm", religious or not.

Take an example, if someone has some severe skin disease that is visual-- and he walk past you, won't you feel it's scary?
He has done nothing wrong though.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

jumpluff Point me to where I said religion WAS the only social issue facing LGBTQ people. I feel like this isn't the first time you've put words into my mouth, but as a bisexual I think I'm pretty well aware of there being more issues than just religion alone. So I guess pointing out how religion can contribute to the suicide rates (which is in no way saying it's the only factor here) is "offensively reductive?"

 

[dhelmise]

I don't think people hate homosexuality just because it's a "sin".
Take Japan as an example, homosexuality has never been a religious taboo in Japanese religions (buddhism, shintoism, etc)
But it's still difficult for Japanese LGBT people to come out because it's not the "norm".

Some people simply are disgusted with things that are not the "norm", religious or not.

Take an example, if someone has some severe skin disease that is visual-- and he walk past you, won't you feel it's scary?
He has done nothing wrong though.

It's difficult for people to come out regardless of the area or religious norms of the area. Yes, members of the LGBT+ community are becoming widely accepted, but it still isn't the most common thing and a lot of people still don't accept it. Homosexuality was never really taboo in Christian views either (love being raised Lutheran jk), the only things I can even recall the bible saying that related to same-sex relationships was "Man shall marry woman" etc, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but people are just misinterpreting that message severely, because no where was it stated that they can only do that, just that it was going to be the "norm."

But a lot of homophobic religious people hate homosexuality just because of it supposedly being stated as a sinful practice within the bible, but yes, your point is true.

However, I also don't see how a LGBT+ person is comparable to a person with a visual severe skin disease; it's not like the homosexual person is walking past you while screaming "GAY!" and wearing clothes that say "LIKES BOYS," "IS HOMOSEXUAL," etc. And I don't see why anyone should think gay people or anyone with a skin condition is harmful; if they are afraid of someone just for being born as themselves, they are the ones that society should be avoiding. But please don't compare us to someone with a disease; that's like you're trying to imply that homosexuals are diseased.

 

[jumpluff]

yes it's offensively reductive because it's the only factor you mentioned, rather declaratively, for religious queer people

eta: also while I agree wholeheartedly with rhythms that the comparison between disease and homosexuality should be avoided as a metaphor for stigma and also because both homosexuality and transness have been subject to harmful pathology in the medical system, people do get attacked for 'appearing queer' (failing gender norms, PDAs, etc.) or being known to be queer and seen around all the time and it's important to acknowledge that, as well as the fact that anti-queer hate crimes are protected legislatively and hegemonically variously all over the world, including the USA; also the AIDS crisis as well as the medical model for homosexuality and 'transsexuality' did result in a widespread social/moral panic wrt. queerness as a disease (not legitimately, but it's important to know these experiences. many gay men and trans people in particular died because of AIDS being the Gay Disease and resultant stigma in medical care and improper access / focus on treatment, as well as how AIDS spread among marginalised subgroups; it's something probably everyone should know about really)

this is a pertinent thing I've posted about a couple of years ago, but my first exposure to the concept of HIV was as the Gay Disease, right as i figured out i was queer, and i developed rather severe OCD that was combined with religious melancholia and fixated on the idea of being somehow 'contaminated', metaphysically and literally -- i was convinced i was going to die of AIDS by the time i was 20 because i was a little kid and didn't understand my mother's uni biology textbooks very well, and was too scared to inform myself about how HIV is actually transmitted. i literally carried around hand sanitiser until i calmed down about being queer (overcoming my religion did not make me better either)

 

[vonFiedler]

I would say that his post was reductive because starting with "religious people indoctrinate" and ending with "you're no true X if you're not hateful" makes it seem like he's not trying to talk about LGBT at all, and he's done this with other issues in other threads.

But I didn't touch his post or anything. I'll delete the "offending line". It's not a relevant discussion topic.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I'd like to clarify that the question I ended my post with was intended as an aside that I didn't even expand on. I thought I was clear about what I was trying to talk about but if that question cast uncertainty on what I was attempting to talk about then I'll edit it out.

I focused solely on the factor of religion on LGBT suicides/substance abuse because it was the one I had the most experience with, being a bisexual raised in a devout Christian household. I can't really discuss trans hate from secular people because I'm not trans, and, with regards to monosexism & receiving it from nonreligious gay men, I've posted about that already. I'm still failing to see how it was offensive to discuss one particular issue, hence my comment about putting words in my mouth because I legitimately don't see how I even implied it was the only issue.

 

[Agile Turtle]

I think that a lot of people being raised in biblefucker families does create a lot of inherent homophobia, however I think a lot of times it is just as much people using the bible as justification for their homophobia as it is people being homophobic because of the bible.

I mean the big thing is, the bible condemns a lot of weird things, and it isn't just your monotheistic middle-eastern originating religions (judaism, christianity, islam and the like) that do this. The thing is, the homosexuality issue receives more attention than just about everything else condemned in the bible, I'm not certain why, but I have some ideas. A lot of things are taken out of context, while a lot of things are also still silly no matter the context. The bible is made up of a bunch of different letters and texts, some stuff made it, some stuff didn't, and a lot of stuff was altered. For instance, anything that suggested any woman was ever powerful or respected or anything was usually altered to downplay that woman's role. There were very few women painted in a good light like Mary (Jesus's birth mum, Ruth, and Esther too I guess). Mary Magdalene was basically Jesus's first disciple and played a large role, however in the bible, she was altered: they altered her likeness, her personality (almost removed it tbh), and they depicted her as a prostitute and a very immoral woman. I mean Jesus did pick most of his disciples from a pretty immoral pool of people (mostly lowlife tax collectors iirc), but I've done some research and I'm pretty sure Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute.

I am a practicing Christian, (raised Baptist, but I'm not sure that I'm a Baptist anymore), but I take a lot of things the bible says with a grain of salt.
I am also relatively straight so you might take things I say about homosexuality with a grain of salt as well.

 

[Pallas Athena]

In America, a majority of both same sex marriage opponents and supporters are Christian. I'd need to check polling data but I suspect it holds for most other social issues. Really, though, I think people find ways to make their preferred way of seeing the world match their religion. Sometimes that involves giving emphasis to Leviticus, the one time Jesus even remotely talked about something similar and some things Paul said. Sometimes that means focusing a lot more on the unconditional love side of things.

And it works for other backgrounds, too. I've seen anti-theists on Reddit denounce trans people with some half-understood babble about genetics. I'd also wager a sizable fraction of TERFs are atheist. From my position as an agnostic/uncaring columnist in the American South, I try to acknowledge a difference between Christianity as a whole and the Bible-thumpers in state legislatures leading the family values charge right now.

 

[Hektor]

Really, though, I think people find ways to make their preferred way of seeing the world match their religion.

This is pretty much what I've realized. I don't know what goes on in some people's heads, nor do I care to know, but I can only conclude that, much like I do, these people have chosen what they value the most, and tailor the rest of the things to fit those values.

It's funny to me that there was a debate about something along the lines of "you're not a true Christian if you don't hate LGBTQ folks," because the rhetoric I've heard from within my community of faith is sort of the opposite of that: "If you harbor hatred toward any of God's children, are you really being a Christian?" I suppose that the rule of thumb for many things in this world holds true for Christianity, too. The loudest people, who often also have the most vitriolic arguments, are the ones whose voices are heard. Thanks to that "mechanic" of the game of life, any viewpoint that emphasizes what I view as the heart of the matter (God's unfailing love for His children) is basically never going to get publicized. All I can do is distance myself from the bigots when I'm pressed about my faith.

All that said, I definitely agree with jumpluff that there's a heckuva lot of stressors in the life of a queer person. I've run across personal and religious anti-trans bias personally (and frequently) this semester alone, and heard a lot about social bias. Not being out to more than three people is also a huge exacerbating factor because all my reactions have to stay tightly under wraps, and that makes it really freaking hard to deal with the actual hateful action and push it aside. If my brain were a computer, having to keep the emotions under control and suppress knee-jerk reactions would decrease the processing power available to do the actual job at hand. Which leaves my mind, to quote Doctor Seuss, mangled up in tangled-up knots!