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Little Cup Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by macle, Oct 18, 2012.

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  1. macle

    macle ribbit
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    LITTLE CUP VIABILITY RANKINGS THREAD


    [​IMG]
    credit to Hawkstar for the image

    Welcome to the Little Cup viability rankings thread. In this thread we will tier LC pokemon into groups based usefulness. Here's a link to the stats in case you want to see a list of the Pokemon in the metagame and how often they are used.

    Here are examples of the other tiers ones. if you don't understand, read those.

    Rough definition of the different tiers:

    S rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the LC metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

    A rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the LC metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.

    B rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

    C rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the LC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in LC. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

    D rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the LC metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.

    E rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are atrocious in the LC metagame. These Pokemon have no place on any serious team.



    S-Rank:
    S-RANK POKEMON (open)
    [​IMG]- Drilbur
    [​IMG]
    - Mienfoo
    [​IMG] - Misdreavus
    [​IMG] - Murkrow

    [​IMG] - Snover


    A-Rank:
    A-RANK POKEMON (open)
    [​IMG]- Chinchou
    [​IMG]
    - Croagunk
    [​IMG]
    - Foongus
    [​IMG]
    - Hippopotas
    [​IMG]
    - Lileep
    [​IMG]
    - Porygon
    [​IMG]
    - Riolu
    [​IMG]
    - Scraggy
    [​IMG]
    - Staryu
    [​IMG]
    - Timburr
    [​IMG]
    - Tirtouga


    B-Rank:

    B-RANK POKEMON (open)
    [​IMG]- Abra
    [​IMG]
    - Archen
    [​IMG]
    - Axew
    [​IMG]
    - Bronzor
    [​IMG]
    - Clamperl
    [​IMG]
    - Cottonee
    [​IMG]
    - Dwebble
    [​IMG]
    - Diglett
    [​IMG]
    - Dratini
    [​IMG]
    - Drifloon
    [​IMG]
    - Ferroseed
    [​IMG]
    - Frillish
    [​IMG]
    - Gastly
    [​IMG]
    - Houndour
    [​IMG]
    - Koffing
    [​IMG]
    - Larvesta
    [​IMG]
    - Magnemite
    [​IMG]
    - Natu
    [​IMG]
    - Omanyte
    [​IMG]
    - Pawniard
    [​IMG]
    - Ponyta
    [​IMG]
    - Shellder
    [​IMG]
    - Taillow
    [​IMG]
    - Vullaby


    C-Rank:

    C-RANK POKEMON (open)
    [​IMG]- Aipom
    [​IMG]
    - Cranidos
    [​IMG]
    - Doduo
    [​IMG]
    - Teddiursa
    [​IMG]
    - Totodile
    [​IMG]
    - Stunky
    [​IMG]
    - Shroomish


    D-Rank:

    D-RANK POKEMON (open)
    [​IMG]- Chimchar
    [​IMG]
    - Elekid
    [​IMG]
    - Sandile
    [​IMG]
    - Spearow
    [​IMG]
    - Trapinch
    [​IMG]
    - Wingull


    E-Rank:

    All Pokemon not in Tiers A-D are in E-Rank (open)

    Azurill
    Burmy
    Cherubi
    Chingling
    Cleffa
    Combee (Female)
    Finneon
    Happiny
    Hoothoot
    Igglybuff
    Klink
    Kricketot
    Lotad
    Nincada
    Panpour
    Pansage
    Pansear
    Patrat
    Pidove
    Pichu
    Ralts
    Sentret
    Skitty
    Shuppet
    Solosis
    Spinarak
    Starly
    Surskit
    Tyrogue
    Tympole
    Whismur
    etc
  2. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Voting Mienfoo for S-Rank
    No team gets worse by using Mienfoo. It's either an incredibly bulky defensive pivot with Eviolite or the best wall breaker in the tier with a life orb. Mienfoo gives more offensive teams a solid defensive back bone that can take a hit and retaliate with an absurdly powerful move(hi jump kick), and gives defensive teams a way to deal non-passive damage. Its movepool is excellent too! Knock Off is amongst one of the best moves in Little Cup and Baton Pass is neat for making your Timburr much more threatening right off the bat. Mienfoo has some flaws like being checked rather easily but all of its checks are worn down by U-Turn as they wont have Eviolite anymore. There's a reason this guy will always be #1
  3. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Lileep: S-Rank
    Walls basically every Water-type, as they rarely run Ice Beam nowadays. With Eviolite, it becomes incredibly bulky, and with Giga Drain it can reliably check Drilbur and Hippopotas. Has the rare Stealth Rock access. One of the most effective users of Toxic in the metagame, as Mienfoo will always try to switch-in to it and will be crippled by Toxic.

    Misdreavus: S-Rank
    Premier wall to Mienfoo, fearing only Knock Off. Incredibly wide movepool, including Will O Wisp, Pain Split, Trick, Destiny Bond, Nasty Plot, and Taunt. Extremely high BST (tied for one of the highest in LC) which includes the famous 19 Speed. Great cleaner late game, can hold its own as a wall early game.

    E-Rank:
    Azurill
    Burmy
    Cherubi
    Cleffa
    Combee (Female)
    Finneon
    Happiny
    Igglybuff
    Klink
    Kricketot
    Nincada
    Panpour
    Pansage
    Pansear
    Pichu
    Surskit
    Tyrogue
    Whismur
  4. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Lileep is far from S-Rank. Being weak to Fighting-type moves is its biggest problem. Lileep is useless against nearly all Fighting-types in LC. No competent player is switching their Mienfoo into a Lileep in the early unless you're 100% sure it's going for a move that's not Toxic. During the lategame where Lileep has born worn down by weak hits and some residual damage, then that's the time to switch Mienfoo into Lileep so u can get off a Hi Jump Kick or grab momentum with U-Turn. Lileep sucks versus Croagunk, Scraggy, and Timburr, all of whom are on nearly every Little Cup team. Lileep is an excellent check to a variety of Pokemon like Murkrow and Water-types but it has a pretty significant weakness to Fighting-types.

    Finally, Lileep has absolutely no offensive presence. Pokemon like Ferroseed and Bronzor are free to set up hazards in front of Lileep with little fear. Lileep is also DESTROYED by Toxic. A Toxic'd Lileep is a bad Lileep.

    The flaws I've listed out are significant enough to keep Lileep out of S-Rank. Personally, I think Lileep may even be a B-Rank Pokemon. It's very good at what it does but its combination of 4ms, weakness to Toxic, and weakness to Fighting-types are a little too important for A-Rank.
  5. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Hrm, it seems we actually generally agree. Personally, I consider being weak to Fighting-types and slightly on the offensively weak side to be considered "very few flaws." In terms of Mienfoo coming in when Lileep has been weakened, I find that in most games, Mienfoo is one of the only things on the opposing team that can get Lileep truly "weakened." Otherwise, Lileep has enough punch in tandem with Giga Drain (also access to Recover) to stay pretty healthy unless you're just switching in stupidly. Maybe it's just because I play a lot more defense than offense, but I definitely think Lileep is not only the best hazard setter in the current meta (has actual utility, which is the one thing that keeps Dwebble from this spot) along with one of the best walls to both threats (Murkrow and Drilbur) that were suspected last round. Perhaps you're right though, if you don't play as much defense, I could definitely see it being ranked lower.
  6. macle

    macle ribbit
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    I agree with Mienfoo and Missy being S-ranked. If anyone disagrees, post now (though there shouldn't be).

    I see lileep being an A. It can wall most of the metagame as long as its not a fighting type mostly. If its not an A than no other wall can be one imo.
  7. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Murkrow: S-Rank

    Best attacker in the metagame, 2HKOes almost everything with good prediction. Stealth Rock weakness can be overcome via priority Substitute and Roost. Excellent revenge killing capabilities due to STAB Sucker Punch, and can become a dedicated revenge killer with Choice Scarf. All-around the most powerful offensive Pokemon in the metagame.

    Chinchou: A-Rank

    RestTalk Chinchou is one of the best special sponges in the metagame, being able to wall Staryu and opposing Chinchou, as well as being one of the few good Murkrow counters. Paralysis is an excellent status to spread, while the burn from Scald is also nice. Heal Bell is rare, and Chinchou is one of the best users of it. Volt Switch is also a fantastic move. However, it is weak to Ground-type attacks, and defensive sets can be setup bait for some sweepers, such as Scraggy (although they still fear the burn from Scald).

    Porygon: A-Rank

    Gets the coveted Recover, allowing it to indefinitely wall many common Pokemon in the metagame. Its naturally good defenses, combined with Eviolite, makes it almost impossible to 2HKO. By Tracing Prankster, Porygon is likely the best Murkrow counter avaliable. Thunder Wave is again a great status to throw out, and Tri Attack (as well as a plethora of other offensive moves) hit hard even without investment. However, it is weak to the common Mienfoo and Scraggy (although the former will not enjoy Thunder Wave) and is walled by Steel-types.
  8. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Personally, I think that S-Rank should be restricted to Mienfoo, Misdreavus, and Murkrow. While a few tiers have some debate as to which Pokemon is the best, very few would disagree that those three are not the dominant forces in the metagame. Mienfoo and Murkrow are incredibly diverse and powerful, and pretty much every team has trouble with at least one set. Misdreavus is a little more predictable, with its moveset having Shadow Ball and HP Fighting most of the time, but those other two moveslots let it vary itself enough that predicting the wrong coverage or status move will screw you over. Plus, it has some amazing bulk and that 19 Speed. These three will be the top mons for a long time to come.

    As for A rank, a few that I know should be there are Snover and Hippopotas. Hippo is an awesome SR setter, but even more important is Sand Stream. That pretty much auto-qualifies it for A rank since it acts as the harbinger for Drilbur, Sandshrew, Lileep, and the rest of the sand squad. That's also why Snover should be there. While usually Snover is slapped on as a fix-all for sand teams, it is also pretty good in its own right. It has a base 120 power move that can never miss and super effective coverage on the Water-type walls that would block it. It nukes every Flying-type in the tier bar Mantyke with its Scarf set, which paves the way for all the Fighting-types in the tier to wreak havoc. Auto-weather, like I said, is pretty much a free ticket to the A rank. There's plenty of other stuff that should be A rank, such as Staryu, Scraggy, Porygon, and Chinchou, but that's too many words :x

    B-rank is a little tougher because its pretty subjective from person to person. Some think some of the mons here should be A rank, while others think they are overrated and belong in C. For me, Timburr stands out as one of the ones floating between A and B. It's so bulky and strong at the same time, and is OHKOed by only 3 Pokemon in the tier, and they are all Flying-types, which can be cleaned out by the aforemented Snover. Yeah, Timburr lives through every unboosted Psychic in the metagame, even from Sash Abra. It is way bulkier than you think, and with a few Bulk Up boosts, it can wreck the tier. However, it can get worn down easily sometimes, and then there is Mienfoo, who is usually picked over it. Also here is Magnemite, who has a huge Special Attack stat and 13 resistances, but unfortunately has a weakness to Fighting, which puts it at the mercy of every single Fighting-type in the tier. The Scarf set remedies its Speed, but its bulk then leaves something to be desired. Snover, for example, does 50% with Blizzard to non-Eviolite Magnemite. There's also Chinchou who doesn't care about it at all. Magnemite has a lot of checks, but it does have awesome power that not many Pokemon can switch into.

    C rank is where I would put Deerling and Archen. Scarf Deerling served me well for a while, but it really is a niche mon, which pains me to say. As opposed to a Scarfer like Mienfoo, Derrling isn't a great wallbreaker unless it gets a Sap Sipper boost, but it is an excellent late-game cleaner that can finish off weakened Pokemon, and has the unique ability to always beat Pawniard no matter how many Swords Dances it has with Nature Power. Archen has the same problem as Magnemite, in that it has awesome power but a ton of checks. Defeatist is a really terrible ability that makes Archen dead weight except for super effective attacks after it falls below 50% HP. Staryu and Misdreavus exacerbate this problem with Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, or Shadow Ball and a Speed stat of 19, Abra can beat it, Murkrow can win with prediction, Scarfers beat it, Bronzor sets up on it, etc. Roost doesn't alleviate this problem either since it still doesn't help against faster threats, and it just leaves it as a sitting duck for a turn. And of course Stealth Rock.

    D and E tier, I don't know! I never use/see any because I don't face people dumb enough to use them that often. Actually, I see Beldum way more than I should. It gets Iron Head, Zen Headbutt, and that's pretty much it. Stop using it!
  9. Gengan

    Gengan

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    This.

    No one has even mentioned Chinchou yet :c I'd put it in C Rank tbh. Although it has a useful niche as a Murkrow counter, anything else it does is really underwhelming. Choice Scarf? Gets walled. Regular offensive set? Really weak. Agility? Pfft. Other than that Chinchou doesn't really do much. Also, Volt Switch is easily hurt by entry hazards and it's outsped by a Drilbur not in sand. That's kinda bad.
  10. macle

    macle ribbit
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  11. Enix

    Enix

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    Staryu: A-Rank

    Staryu reaches the benchmark for 19 base speed, and its most likely the best spinner in the meta-game. It gets natural cure which just justifies how good of a spinner it is. Hydro Pump is a great stab move and hits a lot of pokemon hard, sadly its walled completely by bulky pokemon that resist its attacks and can hit it with super effective damage such as Lillep and Chinchou.
  12. Gengan

    Gengan

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    Fuck I'm blind. Sorry. I still think it should be at least C rank.

    Drilbur: A-Rank

    Drilbur is literally the face of Sand in LC. With Hippo providing a constant stream, Drilbur can rip through everything with a few select coverage moves alone. Sand Rush is a fabulous ability and it makes Drilbur harder to take down since it can't be easily outsped. Without sand, Drilbur can utilize Mold Breaker, Stealth Rock, and Eviolite to make an offensive support set.

    Hippopotas: A-Rank

    Where would sand be without this guy? Not only is his ability fabulous, he's very offensive, can set up Stealth Rock, spread Toxic and then stall it out with Slack Off. It also is helpful that because of the Sp. Def boost it gets from Sandstorm, which means it barely even fears Water-types. Snover is really the only thing that can counter it.

    Snover: A-Rank

    Standing tall as literally the best counter sand. Switch in, start Hail, and spam Blizzard or Giga Drain. Both Drilbur and Hippo fear this monster, and even things that are supposed to counter it don't counter it as well as they should. Every team should have this guy to help against sand.
  13. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Hippopotas does not get a Special Defense boost from Sandstorm. Only Rock-types get that boost.
  14. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    I would say Lileep is A rank; it doesn't fit playstyles or teams the way Murkrow, Misdreavus or Mienfoo do. Lileep is a very defensive oriented pokemon, as Ray Jay said. If you're looking for an Offensive approach, even if Lileep is a good option, it won't fit you. Anyway, in terms of flaws, it "has few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits". I mean, that SpD and immunity to Water-type attacks, it's one of the few pokemons who can handle Drilbur, it can outstall Murkrow and wall Missy on Sandstorm. Sure, it has that huge Fighting problem but Lileep can stop many other threats (Staryu, Chinchou and the other three I mentioned). I think that saying "it's far from S-rank" is overlooking the great treats that Lileep has to offer.

    And Vullaby to B rank. She has a good combination of bulk, typing and ability which would make her fit into most teams if it weren't for Murkrow. In any case, Vullaby has access to Taunt, Roost, Knock Off and can be either Specially with Nasty Plot or Physically with Brave Bird. She has a despicable weakness to Toxic but can switch into most Pokemon barring Magnemite and Chinchou. It has superior speed which allows her to taunt common Hazard setters like Lileep, Ferroseed and outstall Defensive Pokemon like Bronzor and Slowpoke who can't do nothing but weakly damage its special bulk. Sure it has MANY flaws like sub-par stats and shallow movepool, but, with proper support or because of the support she can give, I think she deserves B-rank.

    Finally, Shroomish to D rank. It is outclassed by many other Grass-types like Bulbasaur, Foongus, Lileep obviously and even Cottonee. But it can be used on certain stall teams with heavy support. I have once made a team with Shroomish on it and, while it wasn't "good" it wasn't "bad" at all. Not game changing but still could switch into Toxic, Spore and Thunder Wave and be a Murkrow bait. I would say E-rank if it weren't for things like Klink and Combee being in there. At least, Shroomish has Spore even if it's outclassed by Foongus.

    And I would argue that things like Azurril, Pans*** and Surskit are not E-rank but I have seen few of them (with Leftovers 9.9) and never used them before so I'm not stepping up :P.
  15. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    Chinchou is a support Pokemon, my friend. Heal Bell is a perfect support option for teams. Mienfoo gets burned? No problem. Lileep gets Toxic'd? Fine. Scraggy gets paralyzed and is running Moxie? Not for long! Misdreavus gets put to sleep or you have Pokemon with Rest? Chinchou is on that shit. Great typing and the ability to beat Murkrow is an absolute asset in this metagame, and it forms very nice synergy with lileep and Mienfoo. A Rank is justified.
  16. macle

    macle ribbit
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    So for A rank suggestions so far there is

    Snover
    Hippo
    Scraggy
    Staryu
    Lileep
    Porygon
    Drillbur

    There is talk about Chinchou and Lileep not being A ranked. Anymore thoughts on these guys?
  17. comatthew6

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    Chinchou and Lileep should definitely be A tier. Great support Pokemon with very solid typing and abilities, these Pokemon ARE amazing and should be A tier. Scraggy is definitely A tier; likewise for Drilbur, Porygon, and Hippopotas. These are all great Pokemon that have been incredible for quite some time now.

    I personally disagree with Snover being A tier. Just because it is one of the best checks to Sandstorm does NOT mean that it should be A tier. Its typing is horrendous and its weakness to Fighting and Stealth Rock hurts, and with all of the fighting types in the tier, the only utility Snover has is to counter sandstorm. Against a more "standard" team, Snover does not fare as well. It also pretty much *requires* Staryu as a spinner on the team because without Rapid Spin, Snover pretty much gets four switch-ins if not counting Giga Drain recovery. Though Fire isn't necessarily the most popular attack in the metagame, it will pretty much die to any Fire-type attack (HP Fire Staryu or Lileep, for instance). Being weak to U-turn also stings, though it should be noted that it should never switch in on Mienfoo. Without the introduction of double rush in the LC metagame, Snover would not serve much purpose outside of acting as a revenge killer / check to Murkrow. That being said, double rush does exist, and very much on the border between A tier and B tier for Snover, but leaning towards B tier.

    In addition, I would like to see Croagunk as a B tier Pokemon. It had much more utility in the past, but these days, it's not seeing as much usage as it had or as it should. With great movepool that encompasses both physical and special attacks, Croagunk isn't immediately hindered by Will-O-Wisp as the other Fighting-types (Mienfoo, Scraggy) are. With an ability that allows Croagunk to heal itself when hit by a water-type attack, as well as having a very nice Poison secondary type to stop Scraggy lacking Zen Headbutt (hey, some still use Ice Punch. I ain't even mad). Murkrow and Drilbur, two of the most popular Pokemon in the game, however, prevent it from being better because of their super effective STAB attacks.
  18. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Yeah I approve of this list, maybe add Croagunk as well. Croagunk has a niche in good resistances / immunities, useful priority, decent bulk, and the ability to act as a utility counter to a whole mess of things in the tier.
  19. Gates

    Gates

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    I would say Chinchou is definitely A rank. Being able to bring such incredible defensive support to a team with Heal Bell as well as having significant offensive abilities with great coverage solidly cements its place in A rank.

    I'm not so sure about Lileep though. HP Fire covers a lot of the common problems cited in this thread about it getting walled by steel types, but its weakness to fighting types is still crippling. It's also kind of in its own niche now as being an anti-sandstorm pokemon since at least 1/3 of the average sand team will get destroyed by Giga Drain. It can't really support because there are so many better SR users out there and not using AncientPower gives it terrible coverage.

    I don't agree with Hippopotas being A tier either. For a defensive pokemon, he's just way too easy to kill. How many teams carry a Toxic user? A pokemon with Giga Drain? A Water type? A large majority of LC teams carry one of those three and often more. If it weren't for sand he'd be C tier or lower easily. I don't know how people in this thread can argue for Snover to be B-tier because "all he does is stop sand" yet the sand streamer unanimously gets voted into A rank because all he does is start sand (and set up rocks I guess but whatever).

    Speaking of Stealth Rock users, I think Bronzor should be under consideration for A rank as well. As a defensive pokemon his plethora of resistances and considerable bulk give him ample time to set up rocks or screens or Toxic some pokemon. His access to STAB Psychic helps against the many fighting types who he will run into in the format and STAB Flash Cannon is a move that no pokemon is completely immune to. Few pokemon resist this combination but for the ones who do, Bronzor also has access to Earthquake as a coverage move. His biggest downfall isn't his weakness to fire (and technically you could run Heatproof for that if you really wanted to get hit by Earthquake) but his lack of a reliable recovery move. This makes Recycle+Oran Berry a viable option with Bronzor whereas it wouldn't be with any other pokemon, which really says something. So I think Bronzor belongs in A rank.

    Croagunk is good but he just has too many common weaknesses. Croagunk has to be extremely careful around any pokemon that knows a Psychic, Flying, or Ground attack or else he's done for good. Because of this, I don't see him rising beyond B Tier.



    So I might be jumping ahead here but where would Sandshrew fall on these rankings? He's basically just a bad Drilbur which means he doesn't require any more support than Drilbur would except maybe having to use Swords Dance twice instead of just once. At the same time though, his only real purpose is to complement Drilbur. Unless Drilbur were banned for some reason, I can't see any reason why people would use Sandshrew over him. I can see him as being as high as B rank or as low as D rank.
  20. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

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    Larvesta for C/B Rank

    Stealth rock. Larvesta's arch enemy . Probably larvesta's biggest flaw being x4 weak to rock type. It needs rapid spin support to function properly. Larvesta's niche is flame body. The ability to burn on physical contact. This ability allows it the check most physical attackers bar fire types and guts users. Larvesta's dual STABs are also excellent. A the main the thing about lavarvesta is its neutral to ground attacks aswell as its STAB u-turn which does massive to Slowpoke . U-turn also gets you momentum. A STAB flare blitz also does massive damage to any thing that doesnt resist or is immune and wild charge to get passed water types . Though is does get morning sun it isnt very useful with sand and hail around every corner.
  21. macle

    macle ribbit
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    Honestly I see Hippo as B. I wouldn't use Hippo if i wasn't going to use Drillbur. It only realy supports Lileep and Drillbur.

    Lileep should be an A. It can wall most of the special attackers in the metagame. It also ruins any chance of rain becoming viable again. :(

    Snover is a 1 trick pony. Clears out sand and spams Blizzards. I see it as more of a B.

    Croagunk is kinda a niche mon. Checks a lot of shit but can't ever sweep a team. It has good resistances and immunities. B imo
  22. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Croagunk should be A-Rank. It can sweep but I'm the only one using the Bulk Up set(it's so good sets up on waters and fighters) and it's one of the best fighting-type checks. although it's worse at switching in on fighting-type moves than missy, missy losses to all fighting-types that arent Mienfoo. Snover is an incredilby Pokemon and should be A-Rank. Checks Water-types and sand really well. Hippo is good outside of supporting Lileep and Drilbur. It's a solid phazers and its access to reliable recovery means it stick around for a long time. Another A-Rank mon.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Bronzor is a C-Rank Pokemon. Bronzor is a good defensive Pokemon but that's literally all he is. He has NO offensive presence and just gives powerful threats or entry hazards mon a free switch in. Against a lot of the threats its supposed to check like Murkrow, it'll lose in the lategame since it has no feasible way of severely denting the Pokemon it's supposed to be checking, Drilbur being the exception. Bronzor is just a mediocre Pokemon.

    Scraggy should be the final addition to the S-Rank. This thing is just so sick! It's super bulky with Eviolite and it can beat almost all of its checks with a little bit of support. With Stealth Rock and a tiny bit of residual damage, Scraggy can defeat Mienfoo, it's most common check; Croagunk losses to any Scraggy running Zen Headbutt but it also can't take repeated Hi Jump Kicks, especially after Stealth Rock or with some sand damage; Shelmet gets donked by Stealth Rock and Crunch on the switch if you predict correctly. This thing can set up on so many Pokemon too! Lileep, Chinchou, Bronzor, and Snover are just a few examples. Scraggy is a pretty sick Pokemon that should be S-Rank
  23. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Agree with most of macle's post except for Snover. Snover is definitely worthy of A-Rank, as it is the best anti-metagame Pokemon. It completely demolishes sand teams, and few things can stand up to repeated Blizzard and hail damage. Late-game, Blizzard is almost impossible to switch into. It does require a spinner to work effectively, but that's not really a lot of support compared to something like Drilbur or even Chinchou.
  24. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    Agreeing; Bronzor is just a good hazard setter that MAYBE can do something else in the match like crippling a wall with Toxic, but that's all it does, literally. Sure, it has good typing and EXCELLENT defenses but lacks reliable recovery which means that even if you use it on the stall side, you can't count on it to stand a match against the things it's supposed to counter.

    Hippo's defense is high enough to resist Drilbur's Earthquake and Scraggy's +1 Drain Punch. It can stall Mienfoo with Slack Off and even suffle the opponent's team with Whirlwind (how does Hippo learn that?). Starting sand is just the icing in the cake for a Pokemon who can support quite few pokemons and teams, from Hyper-Offensive's Drilbur+Sandshrew to Stall abusers like Lileep and Vullaby, even for teams that don't rely on sand, it's a great Physical wall. Hippo is not only the send-in+start-sand&sacrifice Pokemon; it can hold its own with a so-so Attack Stat (unlike Bronzor), solid Physical Bulk and wide support movepool. But, really, if Hippo didn't have Sandstream I would still use it because of its excellent Defensive capabilities, (now you may have guessed I'm a more defensive player)

    I agree. This is the complete opposite of Hippo; a Pokemon who has just (like Macle said) one use: Kill Sand. Does someone use Snover for another task? I think it has great offensive powers but it lacks either bulk or speed to pull off a real use outside its Snow Warning ability. Grass-types to check Water we have plenty, Ice-STAB isn't really worth it because there are plenty pokemons who are already weak to it and the typing itself is a curse on this universe plagued with Fighting-types and Stealth Rock. Rank B to me.

    I see Croagunk to A-rank because of its typing and capabilities. It's useful on all the things Sir said but I like to add: Croagunk requires little support; something to take on Murkrow & Flying-types and something to kill Abra and Psychic Friends. As for the Ground weakness... all we have to do is to put on a Levitating Pokemon or a Flying-type. Even a Grass-type. Weakness to those types, however, are somewhat lessened with its access to Priority attacks and resistances or immunity to the most common of those same attacks (Sucker Punch, Mach Punch, Vaccum Wave and Aqua Jet all do pitiful damage to it and Aqua Jet even restores health!), that means that Croagunk can have the last laugh against weakened Drilburs, Abras with a broken Sash and the like. Also, I often find it fitting on most of the teams I made and really turns the tide of a match. Its Dry-Skin ability means he doesn't fear scald burns and can check Ghost- and Fighting-types at the same time. I agree sending it to A-rank.
  25. viashinomage

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    Just throwing this out there, if we allow analytic pory when it's released, definately should be moved to S rank. it gets a choice specs boost for going last, so it can pack an eviolite and recover. then three super-powered moves to literally slaugter anything. and only fighting types can OHKO/2HKO so it can reliably stay in
    edit: i believe murkrow and maybe missy can also OHKO, but they do that to mienfoo and that's not stopping us
    since we're listing crap poke right off the bat don't forget magikarp, D rank for sure. jk E rank let's get it up there!!
    porygon4life
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