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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by GCSChris, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit
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    You guys are forgetting that mega lucario gets adaptability. Lets say for the sake of argument MegaLucario gets around 20+ added to its attack stat [which is more than likely to happen given A) it was confirmed that its attacking stat is increasing anyway and B) GF has a fetish for power creep].

    252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 632-743 (196.88 - 231.46%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Adaptability MegaLucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 728-860 (226.79 - 267.91%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk MegaLucario ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 122-144 (38 - 44.85%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 140-166 (43.61 - 51.71%) -- 11.72% chance to 2HKO

    So yeah, statistically speaking, MegaLucario (STAB wise) is actually stronger than the regular one. Knowing GF, I'm pretty sure it's getting more than just a 20+ boost to attack lol (probably around 30 or 35). Now this is all assuming the Pokemon in question isn't allowed to hold any items, which hasn't been confirmed one way or another. For all we know, those evolution items go away once the evolution happens or can be removed once its done, and as far as I'm aware, reverse evolutions have never been a thing. So it's very likely MegaLucario is better than the normal. I'm guessing its attack is increased in exchange for a lower special attack.
  2. Shurtugal

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    Yeah it REALLY depends on how much it's base attack rises.

    My whole issue with MegeEvolution is that you can morph your base stats, which is a pretty scary thought. What if something like Latios's ME got to swap it's SpA to it's Atk stat? The DD set would be more viable and could hit things like Chansey and TTar harder, etc. While speed tiers could get surprise KOs.

    It's all pretty scary gdi
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  3. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    But in competitive battling, you don't have a bag of items, so I'm not seeing how a MegaPokemon would be able to hold another item if it went away. Also, the pokemon reverst to its normal forme after battle. In addition, notice how LO Lucario's Extreme Speed was more powerful than MegaLucario's. As we previously discussed, this is really dependent on MegaLucario's attack stat. So if you're looking for an ESpeed sweeper, it looks like Lucario may be the better option, but again the really depends on MegaLucario's Atk stat
  4. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    As stated by Tabuu, I think a lot of people are already overlooking some of these Mega Evolutions, Kangaskhan and Ampharos in particular. Both of them find themselves in the NU tier as of now, but with these new Evolutions, I seriously think that both of these have a huge chance to shine in the upper tiers. I'm still a bit on the fence as to how effective Mega Ampharos will be in OU simply because it's like a slower, special version of Druddigon (who is comfortably RU), but that of course could change depending on if GF gives Ampharos better stats and possibly Draco Meteor. Kangaskhan on the other hand will be OU no questions asked. Guys, it attacks TWICE! It's already a decently powerful Pokemon with a great offensive movepool, and 90 base speed in exchange for attacking TWICE is a great trade off if you ask me. Who cares if Ghost-types give it problems. It...attacks...TWICE. I think out of all the Mega Evolutions thus far, Kangaskhan will probably be one of the most interesting Pokemon to use. With the ability to attack twice, a LOT of strategies will stem from that. For example, Fake Out will actually become viable because it becomes a 120 base power priority move with STAB factored in and attacking twice. That's amazing. Sucker Punch also becomes a 160 base power Dark move to hit Gengar before it can retaliate with a Focus Blast. A Sub Punch set would be viable because it would an equivalent of a 300 base Fighting-type move that would keep the likes of Ferrothorn and Forretress from walling it. If that new Honedge Pokemon gets a good evolution, even that thing wouldn't be safe from a 200 base power Earthquake.

    My point is, whoever said earlier that Kangaskhan would be underwhelming, please rethink that.
    I said the same thing, but everyone's biggest beef with Mega Lucario is that an Adaptability BP isn't as powerful as a LO boosted E-Speed, so its sweeping set wouldn't be as successful as its regular set. Still, I think that the ability to run priority BP AND another coverage move will compensate for its loss of power in E-Speed, and the possibility of it getting a huge Attack boost is always something to think about.
  5. TaBuu

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    Being realistic here, I think GameFreak will probably give up to and around +20 for stat boosts. I mean that's what happened for the Incarnate to Therian changes after all. If they give Lucario even more power they need to hit at least Base 157 in order for his Adaptibility boosted non LO BP to match Base 110 Extreme Speed's power. That's a crazy amount that won't happen lol
    If MegaLucario wants to find a niche over Lucario he needs a higher base Speed period.

    Adapt. BP doesn't hit as hard as LO ESpeed which is a huge detriment.
    BP Boosted? So what if it can run another coverage move , it needs Speed to use it LOL.
    If MegaLucario doesn't get a speed boost then LO ESpeed will probably stay as the more favorable and more useful priority.
    Excuse the double post.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2013
  6. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Actually I don't think a speed boost would be worth it at all. One of Lucario's best features is its speed, which lets it run an Adamant nature. If its speed was, say, 110 or even 108, it would be completely outclassed by Terrakion, I think, since it would lose a major power boost.
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  7. Spirit

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    Well, it could be very likely that you can activate mega evolution when you're in just about any battle. Like you can battle a wild delibird and activate it. It seems strange imo that this wouldn't be competitively available. My guess is that this is just another evolution method and that's just about it. The mega stones are also specialized for specific pokemon so that might have an added bonus like 10% attack in increase or something that's favorable for the pokemon in question. Either that, or they go away and you can give the mega pokemon an item.

    This was confirmed? I thought I read somewhere on Serebii that mega don't revert. But if they do, this takes a dump on the above theory, lol.
  8. Magcargo

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    I don't really understand how giving Lucario higher Speed will make it outclassed by Terrakion. Lucario will still be able to run an Adamant nature, but with the added bonus of outspeeding Jolly Mamoswine, Neutral nature Hydreigon, and Landorus-T.
  9. False Sense

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    @Icecream: Mega evolutions can occur at any point in any battle as long as a pokemon that can Mega Evolve is holding its respective Mega Stone. In other words, they have to be holding a Mega Stone to use their other forms, and can't be holding another item. And yes, they do revert back after the battle is over. It's more akin to a temporary form change rather than a full on evolution, really. I hope that clarifies things.

    @Halcyon of Light: Technically, I don't think having more speed would be a bad thing. I think one of Lucario's main selling points is actually its access to Extreemespeed, letting it sweep regardless of speed. Lucario runs Adamant to give that a boost. The extra speed, if Mega Lucario got it, would be a nice boost. I doubt that it would make it outclassed in any way.
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  10. TaBuu

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    After Battle it does reverse. That much has been confirmed.
    ALL IN ALL though, MegaLucario isn't lookin too special over LO Lucario right now.
    LO Lucario is still gonna be my wing man....
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  11. fightnugget

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    From what I understand, Mega Kangaskhan is one pokemon that can attack twice, not two pokemon that attack once each or one pokemon that doubles the base power of certain moves, so I'm thinking unless Kangaskhan uses fake out, megavolves, immediately activates parental bond and the game recognizes Mega Kangaskhan as a newly switched in pokemon rather than a buffed Kanga, you could only pop one fake out off.
  12. LucaroarkZ

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    Lucario runs coverage for hitting bulkier Pokemon that Close Combat doesn't hit like Jellicent, Celebi, Reuniclus, Slowbro... Basically the Pokemon Lucario uses coverage moves to beat tend to be slower than Lucario, unless it's Gliscor or something. At least, I see very few Celebi who run at least 176 Speed EVs while Jellicent/Reuniclus/Slowbro have lower base Speed than Lucario.

    Yes, boosted Speed would help define a niche for MegaLucario, but Speed is clearly not necessary for coverage.
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  13. the24th

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    Maybe I misunderstand, but I believe that you and others have the order mixed up, for, before you attack, you have the option to MEvolve. After you do, you may attack, and because (assuming) it is the same turn Kangaskhan was sent in, be it the first turn of a battle or otherwise, Parental Bond kicks in and you can use, say, double Fake-Out, but I don't think Parental Bond allows you to choose your target for both attacks (if it were a double battle). This is not confirmed of course, but the likelier case.

    Hope this clears things up going forward.
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  14. GCSChris

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    Parental Bond is comfirmed to allow Kanghaskhan's attacks to hit twice. I take that as choose a move, you get one target, and it hits it twice.

    You opt to MegaEvolve when you choose an attack. The MegaEvolution happens before the attack.
    It was indeed confirmed. Either way, I was saying that for example if I had a Gengar with Lum Berry I can't give if a Life Orb after it eats the Lum Berry in competieive battling. I don't think MegaEvolution should be any different
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
  15. fightnugget

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    I assumed that you would megavolve beforehand tbh, which would mean that MegaKangaskhan would be the pokemon attempting to use fake out twice. Since fake out fails unless it's the first move used, I don't see how you could use one right after the other since you can't have both moves be your first. The scenario I described where Kanga uses fake out, megavolves, then mega kanga uses fake out because of parental bond (and potentially being considered a different pokemon than kanga) is the only scenario I can think of where you might be able to use two consecutive fake outs.
  16. GCSChris

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    I think you can Fake Out twice because of the wording HITS twice. I assume it will be just like a multi-hitting move such as bullet seed
  17. the24th

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  18. GCSChris

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    That was actually a mess up. I knew that, but my brain went all weird and I typed it incorrectly :p. You're right, thanks, fixed.

    I've decided to add that detail to the OP to avoid future confusion.
  19. the24th

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    Hmm...I see your reasoning. I guess it just depends on what the game reads as "the first attack:" the first Fake Out used, or their use in conjunction with one another as a result of Parental Bond...afterall, they are both the same attack, by the same Kangaskhan...that is attacking first...but it could go either way...the only problem is that Fake Out would fail completely in your scenario, which would be a noticeably negative mechanic that I doubt GF would ignore...but to be very honest, there is really no point to double Fake Out other than double damage output if you can't choose individual targets for each of the two attacks (in the case of double battles).

    This then brings up the likelihood that Parental Bond may simply only have the second attempt at Fake Out fail unless the first attempt misses.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
  20. the24th

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    Glad to have helped :)
  21. FrostFire

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    I felt the need to chime in on Mega Lucario.

    Extremespeed is a big deal. 95 base speed is - to be blunt - pretty slow in a metagame which is full of fast offensive pokemon that could potentially one-shot it (E.g. Terrakion, Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Latios, Latias, Salamence, Starmie, Alakazam, Jolteon, Gengar...)

    It's a pretty big list, and no matter how powerful Adaptability Close Combat is, it won't make any difference in the world if Mega Luc can't even get the attack off, because it gets killed by Keldeo's Secret Sword first. Or something.

    But Lucario does get Extremespeed, and at +2, it can sweep through a weakened team quite nicely. Of course Mega Luc's Espeed will likely be a bit weaker, which is a bit of a nuisance (though in all fairness, it remains to be seen weather it is significantly weaker, so as to miss KO's). Of course, Mega Luc does get Adaptability Bullet Punch - but honestly, Normal is probably a better typing offensively than Steel. For example, the aforementioned Keldeo (as well as Thundurus-T and Starmie) really screw over Mega Lucario with Bullet Punch> Espeed. Then again, you do beat Terrakion and Gengar, I suppose.

    So, if that confusing paragraph told you anything, it's probably that the general lack of information makes it hard to guess what pokes are going to be like with any kind of accuracy. What I can say about Lucario though, is that:

    1. Extremespeed is a very significant move for a base 95 speed, frail sweeper;
    2. If said Extremespeed is weakened too much for Mega Lucario, then it could hurt his effectiveness.
    3. All of which, however, could be remedied if Mega Lucario got a boost to it's speed. With base 110, it could outspeed the majority of what it needs to, and abuse it's obscenely powerful Close Combat to the fullest.

    Also, what is this nonsense about 'If Mega Lucario gains speed, it will be worse, because Terrakion'. What I don't even.

    A stat boost is... a stat boost. How can that be bad... Ever?
  22. SapphSabre777

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    The big kicker with these MegaEvolutions is the fact that the Pokemon must hold the "Mega Stone," so unless these MEs are going to yield ridiculous BSTs, I see them really useless overall. Bullet Punch from Mega Lucario is something I'm watching, though...
  23. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    This doesn't make much sense. You're giving Pokemon one item in exchange for better stats, possibly a new ability, and maybe even a better typing. You can't use LO, Specs, Band, Scarf, or Lefties on these Pokemon, but you're potentially giving the Pokemon a huge overall buff. Mega Amphraros will turn from a useless Electric-type, to a formidable bulky tank with the Dragon-typing. Absol will become an amazing sweeper that can't b crippled by paralysis, burn, or poison. Mawile will become one of the most powerful setup sweepers in the game that can setup on Dragon-types. Kangeskhan will be able to get off two attacks each turn, making it one of the most powerful wall breakers in the game. I don't see the uselessness in these forms. The held items are making these Pokemon better.
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  24. asterat

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    I don't know if you want to add this, but dark does not resist fairy helping to further separate it from a "light" type. Fairy is either neutral or super effective to dark. Dark effectiveness on fairy is unknown.

    If parental bond works like we think it will kangashkan basically got huge power. With its good bulk and priority it will put a lot of hurt on everything. Mawile actually got huge power, but will still die to so much I don't think it will be OU. Maybe UU/RU. Think of rampardos.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2013
  25. GCSChris

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    Yeah I'll update it when supereffectiveness/resistance/neutrality is confirmed.
    I don't get how you could make this assumption. Mawile got one of the best abilities in the game, and got amazing typing as well. We have to see it stats before making a statement like this.

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