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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by GCSChris, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    About Blastoise's new Mega Launcher (assuming 50% increase), here are the moves that contain the word pulse:

    Heal Pulse (50% -> Rest with sleeping?)
    Dragon Pulse (135 BP)
    Dark Pulse (120 BP + 20% flinch rate)
    Water Pulse (90 BP + 20% confusion rate)


    Other moves that could potentially benefit from the boost:

    Signal Beam
    Hydro Cannon
    Hydro Pump
    Flash Cannon
    Ice Beam
    Aurasphere (has word pulse/wave in Japanese)

    It is also noticeable that he got a bit heavier according to the data, so my guess is that he's gonna get a boost to his SpA and one/both of his defenses, putting in the middle road between Venasaur and Charizard.

    Hmmm, I can see this running around choiced in Rain teams. Can't think much of anything else.
  2. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    Not to be rude, but this isn't a theorymon thread; please discuss information as it is confirmed. Of course speculation is in order, but I think you can't just assume a 50% boost to pulse moves just because of the name. Thanks.
  3. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I REALLY hope that by Pulse moves Mega Launcher doesn't JUST mean Water Pulse, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, etc. If that's true, then that's a bunch of BS if you ask me, seeing as how it has access to both Hydro Pump and Surf that are both powerful Water-type moves on their own. Besides, the only Pulse move Blastoise can learn IIRC is Water Pulse. That doesn't make much sense. I think there will be a list of moves that are considered "Pulse" boosted as X5Dragon stated. There's just no way the ability could be that trash on a Mega Pokemon.
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  4. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    Agreed. Let's stop talking about it now ;]

    No Theorymon pls

    Okay sorry X5Dragon, thanks for the info.


    I still agree with Gary, if it were only pulse moves it might be pretty bad, but I think we may need some more info to judge that just yet

    Updated the OP with the Blastoise info.

    On that note, please post a link with the information you have if it is not already in the OP. Thank you.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  5. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    The ability boosts pulse moves as confirmed by pokemon.com...
    I think it is safe to assume it receives at least a 30% boost(iron fist), but is more likely to be 50% or higher due to it being a mega evolution. Huge Power, Mold Breaker, Speed Boost, Drought, Parental Bond, Thick Fat, Adaptability being given to megas makes it seem like they're all getting AWESOME abilities.

    If Blastoise gets Dragon Pulse like Ampharos does now and if Hydro Pump gets the pulse boost, it could have Kingdra's neutral coverage(walled by Empoleon+Ferro), but with more power possibly.

    Edit: Any thread discussing gen 6 OU is theorymon by nature.... EVERY post is theorymon since gen 6 OU doesn't exist yet
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  6. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Sorry about that. But I'm a bit curious, did you change the thread policy? IIRC, we were originally allowed to theorymon the mega evolutions at one point because I remember everyone talking about how Mega Lucario would only be more viable over its counterpart if it got a certain attack stat, if Ampharos got Draco Meteor , etc. There was a LOT of theorymoning going on at one point. Just curious.
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  7. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    Okay maybe i used the wrong word. In fact, you are right, Theorymon is not only allowed, it's encouraged.

    The reason I responded to X5Dragon's post like that was because I was unaware of the fact that MegaBlastoise's ability was allowed, so I thought he was essentially making up the ability. That's the kind of Theorymon that is discouraged. Otherwise feel free to theorymon, as the thread lives off it. Thanks and I apologize for any inconvenience my ignorance may have caused :)

    EDIT: Also PLEASE do not hesitate to post about anything in the OP that is missing that you know about. Thank you.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  8. Sound

    Sound

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    Blastoise getting Mega Launcher to boost Pulse moves means nothing... Unless it also gets Dark Pulse and a substantial boost in SpAtk. In which case, it gets a niche of being a spinner with a strong dark move. Though, it'll struggle with SpDef Jelli (why you so bulky?) unless its Special Attack gets really high or Mega Launcher is a 1.5 boost instead of the Iron Fist 1.2.
  9. Mikasa

    Mikasa

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    I'm really hyped with megaevolutions, at first I thought it was a stupid idea with a stupid name, but after seeing how well GameFreak is working with it I'm gonna say I love it, good mons like Lucario and Blaziken are not becoming overpowered (not more than they were at least in the case of Ken) they are instead getting more options which seems to not outclass other items choices like Life Orb, while bad mons like Charizard and Mawile are getting huge boosts to make them usable on higher tiers, also the fact you can only use 1 mega for team adds alot of strategy to the game, and even some cool mind games.

    As for the mega evolutions of the Kanto starters, Blastoise is really hard to tell anything because we know nothing about him, GF didn't even revealed which of his stats are getting a boost, MegaCharizard will be OU IMO, sun is a very strong field effect so even if he turns out to be a worse Ninetales (which is unlikely as I fell both have their advantages), the fact you can use both on a team is possible enough reason for Zard to gain OU usage and MegaVenusaur at first I didn't liked him, but after I realised he was getting a boost in both defenses and how good his typing becomes when you take thick fat into account it seems he will be a very good wall to stop water types on their tracks, as he resists water, electric (thunders under rain), grass and fighting (specially good against Keldeo and Toxicroak), while being neutral to the very common ice coverage water types likes to run, he also is immune to toxic (and absorb toxic spikes) which makes him much harder to break, while the only things commonly seem on rain that hits him for super effective damage are Hurricanes and maybe a Starmie running Psyschock.
  10. Dakar

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    Well, MegaZard will pack one advantage that Ninetales won't: an immunity to Spikes. While SR would be more devastating early on, the immunity to spikes (especially the Toxic variety) will give MegaZard an advantage over Ninetales in at least one department.

    My general thoughts on the whole thing:
    1. During the direct, it seemed as though Iwata was implying that all Pokemon were going to get Mega Evolutions. While I don't see that happening, I still have a feeling that this will be the defining factor in the meta this generation
    2. Holy crap the new megas look awesome. Especially Charizard and Blastoise, Venusaur gets a pass.
    3. How awesome would it be to have Charizard out in a weather war, activate Mega, and then blast Politoed/TTar with a 1-turn Solarbeam? I can imagine the ragequits now. Depending on the final stats, this could also lead TTars to start running Choice Scarf (unless MegaTTar comes along with something better).
    4. The Offense/Defense capabilities of Venusaur could be unmatched, depending on how the finite details of MegaEvolution work out. If it's reverted on switch, then he has the capability to rampage unhindered. If it lasts the entire battle, it could help to create a class of weather teams that can power through, even after losing the war.
    5. I can't wait for October!!!
  11. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    *Shivers at the thought of Mega T-tar* Ikr, the fact that drought comes with the transformation is awesome! Venusaur is defintely cool, shifting from chlorophyll sweeper to a more defensive pokemon. Also, I love the extra option MegaEvolution adds, creating even more mind games and complexities.

    I can't wait for October either!
    [​IMG]
  12. Ropeburn

    Ropeburn

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    I'm really quite excited about Venusaur, myself. That typing, combined with such a powerful ability and boosted Defenses(is that confirmed?) will definitely carve itself a niche alongside Celebi, without X4 weakness to u-turn, and can comfortably switch out without fear of pursuit trapping, allowing it to get an extra moveslot that would be wated on Baton Pass.

    Charizard is a mixed bag. On one hand, sun may become faster, and get a weather setter that can actually put in some damage, unlike the pathetic output of Ninetales. It also has recovery in the form of Roost. On the other hand, that X4 stealth rock weakness HURTS.

    For reference:

    Charizard: (Fire-Flying)
    HP: 78
    ATK: 84
    DEF: 78
    SPA:109

    SPD: 85
    SPE:100

    Ninetales: (Fire)
    HP: 73
    ATK:76
    DEF: 75
    SPA: 81
    SPD: 100
    SPE: 100



    MegaBlasoise is going to be really good. It's already decently viable in OU, but I really feel like this may be the edge it needs to spring up in the usage stats. Depending on how that ability works, we may be seeing some insane damage under rain.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  13. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    More than non-4x weakness, it's straight-up neutral to Bug but still resists Fighting. I maintain that Chlorosaur NEEDS Life Orb, but MegaVenusaur will be a BITCH of a wall.
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  14. Astral Spirit

    Astral Spirit

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    To be honest, the only mega evolution that has me interested from a competitive standpoint is Mega Venusaur. It'll be nice to see how Venusaur will finally show it's defensive side, although I wonder how lack of leftovers would affect that. Mega Blastoise doesn't seem like it's going to do much - its got just about the most pointless ability I've ever seen.
    And what's all the talk about Mega Charizard being better? I would argue that the only thing a Mega Evolution has done for Charizard is make it even LESS competitively viable. With Drought, it can't be allowed below OU (by 5th gen standards), and Ninetales will ALWAYS be the superior choice, as weather wars are about preserving your Pokemon, and how long will you be preserving a Charizard in OU? Not long. Let's be honest, how often are you ever switching in your Volcarona?
  15. Spinda

    Spinda

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    Hmm, it depends on the set, a standard quiver dance set I probably won't switch in a lot unless I'm trying to bait certain pokemon in with it, in which case I could easily see myself sending it in 5-8 times in some battles. Pokemon like Specs Moltres I do send in a lot to just nuke something though, it's not about their 4x rock weakness because they're 4x weak to rock and you're obviously running a good amount of support to keep rocks off the field, at this point only the role of the pokemon determines how often you switch it in. Charizard could pose as either a nuke or just a weather starter, either way it's switching in rather often.
    Charizard has similar bulk to Ninetales and it actually has reliable recovery alongside of a EQ immunity, meaning there's a good chance you'll have more opportunities to send it in than you would a Ninetales.
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  16. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Well I guess I might as well share my thoughts on these new Mega Evolutions:

    Mega Venusaur: Well like a lot of people have said before, I'm starting to see Mega Venusaur in a new light. At first I was like, "Where's the Mega Chlorophyll?", but now that I think about it, Thick Fat and a boost to its defenses will cause Venusaur to be one of the bulkiest Grass-types in the tier, and to tell you the truth, I'm fine with that. For starters, there isn't an abundant of bulky Grass-types in OU as of now. Breloom dies to boosted Hydro Pumps quite easily, so he's out of the equation. Ferrothorn is obviously great, but still being weak to Keldeo and being crippled so easily by burn blows, and Thundurus-T does a number to it with Focus Blast. Celebi is probably one of the best defensive Grass-types right now, but the huge risk of being trapped by that devilish T-Tar/Keldeo core + being weak to E-Belt HP Bug Keldeo is a shame. Amoonguss is an underrated bulky Grass-type, but it really has to watch out for Ice-type moves and Alakazam, which is being used quite a bit these days.

    Now, with Mega Venusaur, OU finally has one of the best all around answers to offensive rain teams (if it's given 100+ defenses of course). Although it misses out on Leftovers recovery, it has the classic Leech Seed to help alleviate that problem. I think that making Venusaur bulkier in exchange for Leftovers is fine, because it has Leech Seed to alleviate that, and it's like giving Venusaur an Eviolite, which makes it bulky as fuck. If it's bulky as we are hoping, it will be one of the best counters to Keldeo in the tier, because it resists both of its STABs and takes a pitiful amount of damage from Icy Wind or HP Ice because of Thick Fat. Venusaur can then proceed to setup on it with Leech Seed or just straight up KO it with Giga Drain. Another important thing to note is that Venusaur doesn't have to worry about Toxic or Toxic Spikes because of its Poison-type, which will help out a lot of stall teams that need something to absorb T-Spikes and be a formidable wall. On top of that, Venusaur has a cool movepool as we all know, so it can run moves like Earthquake to get around Steel-types like Jirachi or Weather Ball if being used on sun teams to destroy Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Speaking of which, Venusaur will find a new found niche on sun stall teams. It resists almost everything that commonly fucks with sun, such as rain, and it can even do a number to specially defensive Heatran because of EQ if it has to. So all in all, I feel like Mega Venusaur is going be a great Mon. Yes standard Chlorophyll Venusaur will probably still get more usage, but Mega Venusaur will have an entire niche of its own that will allow it to function greatly in OU, and now then I think about it, if X and Y produces even more threats that can abuse rain, then Mega Venusaur will be that much more important. So who knows, maybe this will cause Venusaur to get a MUCH higher usage then it has now with just a sun sweeper niche.

    Mega Charizard: When I first saw this, I flipped shit. Drought on a fucking Charizard? REALLY? That's INSANE!! Then I got to thinking that Stealth Rock is going to be a huge problem that might keep it from getting more usage then the shitty Ninetales, which is a shame. Sun is already crippled by SR enough as it is, but now its main weather inducer is 4x weak to it? Then I got to thinking, this thing is going to be a massive threat. Okay, first off it's getting a significant buff to its SpA stat as told by Serebii, so expect something like 125+, which is insane in the sun. Next off, Charizard is relatively fast, as 100 base speed is solid and it allows it to outspeed all the other weather inducers, while tieing with Ninetales. Charizard has a great movepool, with access to moves like Solarbeam to hit Politoed, Roost to help alleviate the Stealth Rock recoil, and Air Slash to hit anything that resists its STAB Fire move pretty damn hard. So sure, Charizard may be 4x weak to SR and it has to be given a bit more support to stay alive, but unlike Ninetales, Mega Charizard could pull its weight on the team by not being a complete liability and tearing massive holes in the process. So I highly doubt Charizard will be worse then Ninetales just because it's 4x weak to SR. It's just so much better in pretty much every way that I don't see a reason not to use it. Besides, ALL sun teams carry a spinner anyways. I'm never using Ninetales ever again unless I use both of them. That's all I'm saying.

    Mega Blastoise: There honesly isn't much I can say about Mega Blastoise because they failed to give away any possible stat buffs, moves, etc. They were even very vague on its new ability, Mega Launcher, saying that it boosts pulse moves. I HIGHLY doubt that this ability is as shitty as it sounds, because I doubt Gamefreak would make an ability that boosts one move (Blastoise can't learn Dark Pulse or Dragon Pulse, just Water Pulse). I'm assuming it's boosting moves like Hydro Pump and Ice Beam that would be shot from its big cannon. Besides, every Mega Evolution has a great ability, so why would Mega Blastoise be given such a shitty ability? No clue. I'll talk more about this thing if anymore info gets released, but for now, I'm praying OU will have another viable spinner to use.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  17. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    I would be cautious about getting hopes up for a super awesome effect when it comes to Mega Launcher. It sounds great (and I'm hoping it does do as much as people are hoping), but given the fact that MegaMewtwo got Insomnia of all things doesn't inspire confidence.
  18. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    True, but then again, Insomnia is MUCH better then an ability that boosts Water Pulse. Besides, Mega Mewtwo is probably already insanely good, so giving it another great ability would push it over the edge. Also, Insomnia is definitely not a bad ability. With Darkrai being used very often in Ubers to the point where Sleep Talk on a team is almost essential, Insomnia is actually a really good ability to have. So I still have high hopes TBH.
  19. lokt

    lokt

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    Tbh, mega venusaur seems quite underwhelming. I'd personally never use it over amoonguss because it lacks reliable recovery and lefties, which sucks for a defensive mon. It has it's uses in sun-stall, earthquake+thick fat for heatran, and countering thundurus-t I guess, but it seems mediocre to me. Charizard on the other hand could be pretty useful, especially with xatu+dugtrio support to keep off rocks. Definitely an improvement over ninetales for most sun teams, and I could see a bulky charizard set w/roost being used on more balanced sun teams.
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  20. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Everything that needed a big boost from an ability got it. Blaziken was already uber and basically just got Baton Pass from its ability, Mewtwo was also uber and got Insomnia. Lucario and Venusaur are OU and got abilities that will give their mega a powerful niche, but not directly outclassing. Mawile and Kangaskhan come from PU and nab HUGE POWER and a huge power clone that is EVEN BETTER. Blastoise being strong in UU makes it seem like it would get an ability that would both make it a lot better and differentiate itself from its current niche, but nothing crazy like Drought or Huge Power.

    We'll see how good the ability turns out, but I have hopes of GameFreak continuing to maintain the balancing act they've been going for. It would make a lot of sense for Ice Beam an Hydro Pump to get a boost.



    Edit: SubSeed Venusaur is/was a thing and that was BEFORE awesome defensive capabilties(Venusaur already is pretty bulky at 80/83/100)
  21. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Something else to remember is that Charizard has a significantly better movepool than Ninetales. Fire Blast is hitting that much harder against Hippowdon thanks to much higher base Special Attack, Focus Blast crushes Tyranitar (252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 224-264 (55.44 - 65.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), and Politoed won't like repeated Hidden Power Grasses or Air Slashes. MegaCharizard really is pretty terrifying, even considering the 4x Stealth Rock weakness.
  22. Dakar

    Dakar

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    And, according to the official website, that Sp. Atk gets a boost with Mega. Plus, the Politoed and TTar calcs will be much different with a Solarbeam calc (easy since Mega+move is how the turn works, so it'll be Mega, Sun, 1 turn Solarbeam) outside of their weathers. TTar REALLY won't like a full power Solarbeam from a MegaZard with higher Sp. Atk and his Sand bulk gone.
  23. GCSChris

    GCSChris

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    That's what I was thinking.

    I mean, like Gary said, Insomnia is better probably. If Mega Launcher only boots pulse moves, It'd really blow. But imagine if it boosted moves like Hydro Pump and Scald. That'd be pretty awesome as a rain tank.
  24. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Unfortunately for MegaCharizard, that Drought is not activated on the switchin, judging from the megaevolutoin mechanics so far we have seen. He must first transform into MegaCharizard by making a move, then the new ability takes precedent. The best way I can think about is that imagine if Charizarrd is using Sunny Day, but at the same time it is also using a move such Fire Blast.

    MegaVenasaur looks like it is going to be an amazing tank. Shit really a Thick Fat Grass-type? It loses two of its weaknesses directly and can only be hit supereffectively by Flying and Psychic type moves. Those two types are only possessed really by Pokemon that have STAB on those moves, no one carries Psychic or Flying as coverage besides SD Acrobatics Scizor. It is interesting to note that Venasaur might be one of the only Pokemon not directly outclassed by its mega evolution, since it would lose its ability to act as one of the best, if not THE BEST, Chlorophyll sweeper for sun teams.

    edit: Also of note is that it is confirmed you will be able to transfer Pokemon from BW1 and BW2. Yay! When I first read it I thought you had to pay for it because it stipends Pokemon Bank, but it is says pokemon transporter is free.

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
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  25. Yuttt

    Yuttt

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    Honestly, unless MegaVenusaur gets reliable recovery and or awesome defensive stats, it won't be a great wall, IMO, as it doesn't even get lefties. Heatran is a great wall even without reliable recovery, but that's because of lefties and its plethora of resistances and immunities. It has a quad resist to 4 types, and is immune to 2. MegaVenusaur, even with Thick Fat, only resists 4 types, and is weak to 2, although the weaknesses are rather rarely used types. Leech seed sounds nice, especially to beat rain teams, but with a switch, you can easily rob it of all recovery. Ferrothorn gets around it by having something else to do, namely set up hazards, and can have leftovers (although I love Rocky Helmet to spinblock). I think it mainly depends on what will happen to the metagame in gen 6, if there will be more grass-types or not. We'll see...

    Also, the pokebank thing means you can transfer up pokemon with only one DS!

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