Magic Bounce

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by Slipperjeans, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. Slipperjeans

    Slipperjeans

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    Magic Mirror

    Description:
    Reflects status back at the user.

    Testing:
    I got ahold of an ActionReplay code generator and tested this in game.
    The behaviour for this move is exactly like the move Magic Coat, except it is in the form of a passive ability.
    It reflects:
    • All moves that induce status as their only effect (including Yawn), except Teeter Dance
    • All moves that do no damage but alter the target's stats (including Flatter and Swagger), except Defog and Memento
    • Attract
    • Block
    • Gastro Acid
    • Leech Seed
    • Mean Look
    • Spider Web
    • Worry Seed
    • Whirlwind/Roar
    • Stealth Rocks/Spikes/Toxic Spikes
    It works like this ingame:
    • Foe tries to use any of the moves above
    • If it is a multi-target move (e.g.: Tail Whip, Dark Void), the move is executed and it hits the other targets first, but doesn't hit the Magic Mirror guy
    • Magic Mirror ability activates (shows that "ability activation popup") and stops the move from being executed (unless the case above)
    • Magic Mirror uses executes the move himself, targeting the original user

    Who gets it:
    • Natu
    • Xatu
    • Espeon

    Usage:
    Espeon is obviously the better user of this. With his high Speed and Sp.A, he can perform many roles now:
    • Lead (reflects hazards, status)
    • Status absorber
    • Leech Seed counter (altough Leech Seed won't reflect if the foe is Grass, just nullified)
    • Generall Stallbreaker (phazing, hazards, status)
    • Reflecting Gastro Acid or Worry Seed on Doubles
    • Abuse it to setup CM/Subs/BP


    Toughts?
  2. Energy Storm

    Energy Storm

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    Espeon's not that bad, other than a terrible movepool and being outclassed by Alakazam. Maybe this will give it some attention.
  3. giggity69

    giggity69

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    My question is would reflecting speed activate sleep clause? It would technically be self induced....

    Sadly espeon is the only remotely usable poke that gets it, and even then, it is a long shot.
  4. Ves

    Ves

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    If it reflects Swagger's Attack boost, did you test to see if it reflects other moves like Metal Sound? Also Leech Seed, and even Stealth Rock, since Magic Coat now reflects that.
  5. NDenizen

    NDenizen

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    It's a reliable encounter against Breloom, which is nice. You could have fun switching this guy in and out of play generally.

    EDIT: Magic Coat reflects Hazards now? That is amazing. If this ability does too, it's going to be amazing.
  6. elchupo

    elchupo

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    I see this being great in tandem with Baton Pass and Sub. Come in on Breloom's Spore, put it to sleep, and sub while they switch in their counter. Baton Pass allows you to pass the sub to YOUR own counter, essentially getting it in for free.
  7. jwoozie

    jwoozie

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    252 Attack Adamant Breloom smacks Dual Screen Espeon for 61.1%-72.2% with Seed Bomb. And I believe Technician Mach Punch would do 22.8% - 26.9%. A possible 2HKO with any prior damage. Not saying Espeon isn't a decent switch in to Breloom now, just pointing out that it isn't a surefire counter, assuming standard EV spreads will be used in Gen V.
  8. Garganator

    Garganator

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    Well, thanks to this ability Xatu may have a niche in checking some -Fighting and -Grass type physical attackers, mostly Machamp (it can't confuse you), Breloom (this may be hilarious when Breloom uses Spore just to sleep... itself :D) and some versions of Venusaur/Leafeon. x4 Fighting resist easily takes their Fighting STAB attacks and in Breloom's case you also resist STAB Seed Bomb. Fortunately Xatu also learns Roost and Reflect and it's fast enough to put screen before something attacks it. Well, it's still weak pokemon in most situations, but those two are so annoying (I mean Machamp and Breloom), that totally weak team against them may consider using this bird...
  9. Fisdunction

    Fisdunction

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    I recall a poster claiming it also worked on entry hazards (reflecting SR and Spikes would be amazing) and phazing moves (Roar/WW).

    Any chance of testing these?
  10. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Not necessarily. It'll probably turn out that way most of the time, but I doubt the game will determine Sleep Clause differently depending on whether you switched it in that turn or on an earlier turn.
  11. Wanderer

    Wanderer

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    The thing is that Machamp CAN confuse you since Dpunch isn't primarily a status move, it only has confusion as a secondary effect (which Magic Mirror doesn't stop according to the OP). It does work on Breloom more or less, but if Breloom switched in and did not simply come in after a kill (meaning Toxic Orb has already activated) then you can't reflect Spore against it anyway.

    Cool ability though, I look forward to using Espeon in whichever tier it lands in. Should be interesting if it DOES end up reflecting more than just status.
  12. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Only if Breloom still uses Poison Heal over Technician.

    Granted, that's one more reason for it to.
  13. M BLADE

    M BLADE

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    Well, for Espeon it's a great ability.

    Espeon @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpA
    Nature: Timid

    -Wish
    -Calm Mind
    -Psychic
    -Signal Beam/HP Fighting

    This Espeon can support and sweep. It also can do a number to stall teams since Blissey can't touch it anymore (spam Wish and CM up. Blissey only hope is to Critical Hit with Seismic Toss. Yes, very true...).

    Xatu can do the same, but... Xatu sucks.

    Machamp will confuse you. It reflects status moves, not secondary/primary effects of a move.
  14. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I haven't played a Breloom too much but don't they usually set up a Sub right away and save Spore for later? If Espeon comes in on a Sub, Breloom can simply hit it with Focus Punch/Seed Bomb/Leech Seed as it breaks it and go to a counter if it didn't kill Espeon.
  15. Slipperjeans

    Slipperjeans

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    I did some further testing:

    - Could not test SR or Spikes because it can't target ally
    - Leech Seed was reflected!!
    - Metal Sound (presumably other primary stat-down moves such as Fake Tears) was reflected
    - Whirlwind was reflected
  16. NDenizen

    NDenizen

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    Well, that's exciting news, I think Espeon just may have OU potential. This ability resembles a deadly Magic Guard

    Now we need to know about Hazards...
  17. Wanderer

    Wanderer

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    Eh, Technician Breloom isn't all THAT great. It'll get some use, sure, but it won't replace Poison Heal Breloom by a long shot. And DDRMaster, some people Spore first anyway, some people Sub first, but it's mostly personal preference. I find that most people Spore first.

    Reflecting Leech Seed is a nice bonus, as is Whirlwind (though only if you have hazards up). Could you maybe test Taunt as well? That might be helpful against certain leads.
  18. Shellshock929

    Shellshock929

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    This is amazing! Hopefully, this would mean that Espeon could actually get into the OU Tier (if not, probably the BL Tier). The fact that it could also deflect attacks like Whirlwind and Leech Seed is something that will pose a threat towards a lot of Pokemon.
  19. Slipperjeans

    Slipperjeans

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    This is it. Thanks to posters, I tested lots of others things and confirmed that Magic Mirror works exactly like Magic Coat.
    Updated the OP.
  20. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    People are underestimating Espeon. It cannot be stopped by status anymore and can setup (or espyjump) significantly easier now. Switching it into a predicted status move is hilariously awesome. (IE Spore, bulky water using toxic...)


    More incentive to use Espeon over zam.
  21. Epic Cherubi

    Epic Cherubi

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    I think you people are forgetting that Espeon's main enemies aren't Leech Seed and Thunder Wave, but Scizor, Tyranitar and the undeniable fact that when it comes right down to it Espeon totally sucks ass. In OU at least.

    Edit: Immunity to Whirlwind is nice for a CM pass, that was never a good strategy even if it worked.
  22. Wanderer

    Wanderer

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    I think he (or she) means Magic Coat, since that's the closest relative to this.

    EDIT: Almost forgot to ask: is there a list of the things that Magic Mirror can reflect, then? Or at least a list to what Magic Coat can reflect?
  23. Slipperjeans

    Slipperjeans

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  24. bittman

    bittman

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    As a fan of the Espeon, I can see this, even with a shifting metagame, at least pushing Espeon into UU on a more regular basis.

    Will it make Espeon OU? Hard to say, it is still outclassed by Alakazzam offensively, and outclassed as a defensive psychic type by many other pokes.

    Either way, it means Espeon needs to be played smart, it's still heavily physically fragile with a mainly physical metagame, but should be useful in blocking a lot of utility pokes giving it time to set up some Calm Minds, walls or high damage. Espeon is definitely a poke that needs that free-switch turn of setup to suceed.
  25. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Yeah, Magic Coat was what I was thinking.

    So you mean Magic Coat?

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