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OU Magnezone

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Magnemite, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    [​IMG]

    Overview
    ########
    At first glance, there seems to be little reason to use Magnezone in OU. It's slow, has crippling weaknesses to common attacking types, and it faces stiff competition from other, better Electric-type options available, such as Thundurus. However, luckily for Magnezone, magnets are magnetic. Its signature ability, Magnet Pull, gives it the excellent niche of being able to trap and remove many common Steel-types, making it a good partner for certain sweepers, such as Mega Pinsir or Dragonite. It also has a whopping 11 resistances and 1 immunity, the most of any Pokemon in the game. However, at the end of the day, Magnezone is still a rather niche option, and it can struggle to be very effective outside of its niche, which is shrinking more and more by the generation.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Flash Cannon
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    ability: Magnet Pull
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
    nature: Modest

    Moves
    ========
    Volt Switch gains tons of momentum, especially against opposing Steel-types, and can help it escape from revenge killers. Hidden Power Fire is used in the second slot as it OHKOes Scizor and Ferrothorn, both of which are very important for Magnezone to trap. Thunderbolt is used in the last slot for consistent secondary STAB that does not force Magnezone out, but it should not be used very often, as Pokemon locked into an Electric-type move are very easily exploited by common Ground-types, such as Excadrill.

    Set Details
    ========
    Maximum Special Attack investment is used to make the most of Magnezone's great base 130 Special Attack. The listed Speed EVs let it outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory. The rest of EVs go into HP for more survivability. 144 Speed EVs can be used to outspeed minimum Speed Heatran, but beware that Heatran commonly runs Speed investment and can hit Magnezone much harder than it can hit back. Because of this, it is generally a better idea to use the given spread rather than to try and trap Heatran, which is risky. Choice Specs is the main item, as without it, Magnezone lacks the power to deal with many key threats.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    The main goal of this set is to trap and eliminate opposing Steel-types that are causing trouble by walling its teammates. Magnezone is most effective at trapping Skarmory, Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Klefki, but it can occasionally trap Jirachi and Heatran as well. Because Ground-types love to switch into Magnezone, locking yourself into Volt Switch or Thunderbolt isn't often a good idea if the opponent has a Ground-type. However, this problem can be somewhat dealt with by good prediction, as most Ground-types hate switching into Magnezone's other moves. For example, Excadrill has a small chance of being OHKOed by Hidden Power Fire on the switch. Similarly, Flash Cannon has a chance of OHKOing Landorus-T and Gliscor on the switch after Stealth Rock. As this set's main targets are Steel-types, they are the Pokemon Magnezone should be switching in on most often. Ferrothorn and Skarmory in particular cannot touch Magnezone and are swiftly eliminated by it. Magnezone also outspeeds and OHKOes Scizor, but it must be wary of switching into Superpower.

    Team Options
    ========
    Any Pokemon that needs certain Steel-types to be removed in order to sweep, such as Dragon Dance Dragonite, Swords Dance Mega Pinsir, or Calm Mind Clefable, makes a good partner for Magnezone. Teams that have trouble breaking through bulky Steel-types such as Skarmory or Ferrothorn as a whole also benefit from Magnezone as a teammate. Pokemon that can beat the bulky Ground-types that love to switch in on Magnezone, such as Rotom-W, Azumarill, or Manaphy, make good partners for it.

    Other Options
    ########
    A set with Analytic instead of Magnet Pull is usable as it lets Magnezone hit insanely hard with Choice Specs, but Magnezone is rather outclassed outside of trapping Steel-types, so it isn't all that great. Magnezone can also run a Choice Scarf set, but it is very weak without a boosting item and is still quite slow, so it is ineffective at both revenge killing and trapping Steel-types. Magnezone can run a Substitute set with Leftovers, as Substitute protects it from being revenge killed after trapping a Steel-type and can allow it to get an extra KO before needing to switch out. Assault Vest is a decent item on Magnezone, as it has good bulk and a ton of resistances. However, its common weaknesses and lackluster power without a boosting item prevent such a set from being too effective. Hidden Power Ice is an option that hits Pokemon such as Garchomp and Dragonite, but Magnezone has no business staying in on these Pokemon a majority of the time and the loss of Hidden Power Fire can severely hinder its ability to do its job against other Pokemon.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Ground-types**: Ground-types, such as Garchomp, Excadrill, Landorus, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Mamoswine, are a major thorn in Magnezone's side because they are immune to Volt Switch and Thunderbolt. In addition, they greatly threaten Magnezone with a STAB 4x super effective Earthquake or Earth Power. However, many of these Pokemon take massive damage from one of Magnezone's other moves, so they can't always freely switch into it. Dugtrio deserves special mention as it traps Magnezone and can OHKO it with Earthquake.

    **Fighting-types**: Fighting-types, particularly Terrakion, Conkeldurr, and Keldeo, can hit Magnezone hard with their super effective STAB moves. Despite this, they often take quite a bit of damage from Magnezone's moves and can easily lose momentum if they switch into a Volt Switch.

    **Fire-types**: Fire-types, such as Talonflame, Heatran, Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Mega Charizard Y, are very similar to Fighting-types in that they can easily check it but don't take its moves particularly well.

    **Earthquake**: Other common Earthquake users, such as Mega Pinsir, Mega Venusaur, or Dragonite, can easily deal with Magnezone, as Magnezone cannot take even non-STAB Ground-type moves.

    **Special Walls**: Special walls such as Chansey do not mind Magnezone's moves in most cases and many of them can simply heal off its futile attempts to damage them.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
    CyclicCompound likes this.
  2. thelandlordsmm

    thelandlordsmm

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    On the first set, you might want to add that if you're using Hidden Power Fire, you need a 30 IV in speed. Thus, it'll take 88 speed EVs to outspeed Skarmory, not 84.
  3. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    There's not much of a reason to run two separate Choice Specs sets. Analytic should be just be slashed or ACed on the first set, because the Analytic set is basically the exact same set as the first set except with Analytic instead of Magnet Pull. I'd just remove the Analytic set and slash it with Magnet Pull on the first set, because if you don't want to use Magnezone as a steel trapper, you can use it as a powerful wallbreaker to punch holes into the opposing team.

    Also, I think a Substitute set deserves a set. Magnezone is pretty damn threatening behind a Substitute, and a lot of Pokemon that it aims to trap can't really break through its Substitute that easily with their moves. It also protects Magnezone from being so easily revenge killed after it has successfully trapped a Steel-type. Just use the classic set:

    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Flash Cannon
    ability: Magnet Pull
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
    nature: Modest

    I'm not so sure if there's a better EV spread, but I just left it the same as the Specs set to outspeed minimum Skarmory and Adamant CB Scizor. Last generation it ran max Speed for Breloom, but it's not nearly as prevalent as it used to be, so I don't know if it's worth it.

    Also Timid should be the only nature on the Choice Scarf set, because it misses out on Keldeo and Terrakion otherwise, which is really important.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  4. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
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    I think Dugtrio should get a big mention in C&C to revenge kill on a Choice-locked Electric move, or, more riskily, switch into an Electric attack. It can even switch into Flash Cannon in a pinch if its sash is intact. Duggy also outspeeds Scarf Magnezone which makes the Magnezone user constantly cautious if the opponent has a Dugtrio, more so than other Ground-types.

    Gastrodon is pretty much a hard counter and should be mentioned. Also Goodra could be added in the special walls section, and Thundurus-T given a brief mention as it fears only the rare HP Ice

    I haven't seen a whole lot of Dragon spam type teams thus far, but i reckon mentioning Dragons and other sweepers/wallbreakers who benefit from opposing Steel-types being removed is a good idea in the team options section. Terrakion comes to mind as it greatly appreciates Skarmory and Forretress gone as they can wall it, as well as Scizor who can revenge kill it.
  5. Jukain

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    I heavily disagree on merging Analytic in. The fact is that Magnet Pull and Analytic Specs Magnezone fulfill entirely different roles and play entirely differently. Magnet Pull is nowhere near the same of a nuke; it is a trapper, and that is what it is. Analytic is a heavy-hitter. They fill different niches, and therefore should be kept separated.
  6. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    I wasn't originally going to separate them, but I looked at the preview and the QC team agreed with them being separated there, and I also agree, especially since most of the team options and usage tips specifically applied to Magnet Pull. I'm not sure if I should add actual calcs (specifically the ones you posted in the preview) or just say what it can OHKO, since it's important to specify why the Analytic set should be used over Magnet Pull.

    As for Substitute, I think I should add that in but I'm not too sure, since giving up Volt Switch is a pretty big deal.
    CyclicCompound likes this.
  7. Sol9000

    Sol9000

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    No love for Duel Screens. :C
  8. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Scarf should not get a set for the following reasons:

    1) Weak. You even say it in the set description: it can't handle anything besides weakened threats.

    2) Ground-types. You can't even Volt Switch freely all the time with all the Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Garchomp, etc. so prevalent. Not saying Volt Switch isn't a great move, but on something 4x weak to common Pokemon immune to it without the power to OHKO even if you predict correctly, or 2HKO with Flash Cannon, is not good at all.

    3) Outclassed by Magneton and slow. Magneton at least outruns Talonflame, Starmie, Greninja, etc. (base 115 and > Speed). Magnezone is outsped by so much even with the boost from Scarf. Magneton was also QC rejected, so what does this tell you about Magnezone?

    4) Outclassed at Steel trapping. By what? Itself with a Choice Specs. Mega Lucario must be weakened for Magnezone to revenge kill, and if it's special with Vacuum Wave Magnezone loses. Heatran has to be weakened to the brink of death for Magnezone to do anything, and is outright walled by the most common specially defensive variants. Excadrill it can't KO. Bisharp destroys you whilst you can't KO it. So, outrunning extra Steels means little, and in exchange you lose the power of Specs, which can still trap the Steel-types Magnezone is equipped to handle (Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress) while being much more effective overall.

    5) Inept at revenge killing. Its power just isn't there, nor its Speed, as previously mentioned. It can't even revenge kill things you would a revenge killer to revenge kill. You use a good Scarfer for a revenge killer. You use Magnezone to trap Steels/hit hard with Analytic if you're so inclined. Magnezone can do the latter, but it can't do the former.
    TRC and Ixeilon like this.
  9. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Are you sure running min speed on the analytic set is a good idea? When you think about it, outrunning the opponent is worth far more than a 30% damage boost in most situations. If you get to attack them twice instead of once, that's a 100% boost. If you force them out by being faster and threatening a KO, you still get the boost. The main point of using analytic is to hit things on the switch, actually; this is why analytic starmie is good despite being really fast.

    You probably want to run the same amount of speed you want on any magnezone, not that I know what that is (I haven't used magnezone this gen). The only reason I can see for min speed is aegislash, which you will of course hit far harder if it's in blade forme
  10. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Replace Thunder with Thunderbolt on the Analytic set. On weather-less teams, Magnezone cannot afford to have his main STAB be as accurate as Focus Blast, and there's no real reason for him to do so when Analytic Specs Thunderbolt still hits enormously hard. In set details, discuss the effectiveness of the set on Rain teams, and in the Moves section, indicate the specific KOs that Thunder nabs.
  11. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    I definitely agree with this. This is pretty solid reasoning, and I honestly can't think of any reasons to ever run Scarf Magnezone when so many better options are available in terms of scarfers and other Magnezone sets. Seriously, not being able to OHKO something as frail as Mega Lucario with a neutal STAB move is quite pathetic for an offensive Pokemon. I won't remove it quite yet though in case there are any other opinions (Though mainly because I can't get it back after I delete it and want to make absolute sure I won't have to waste my time writing the same thing over again before I get rid of it).

    Also, should I slash Thunder after Thunderbolt on the Analytic set or just mention it in moves or set details?

    Editing the scarf set into this post in case it gets enough support or something:

    Choice Scarf (open)

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Flash Cannon
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    ability: Magnet Pull
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Moves
    ========
    • Volt Switch gains invaluble momentum, which is especially important on this set as it lacks the power to OHKO certain threats that it outspeeds, such as Mega Lucario, allowing a teammate to finish off the weakened Pokemon without letting Magnezone faint
    • Hidden Power Fire is preferred as it is Magnezone's best option against many Steel-types that Magnezone can trap
    • Hidden Power Ice is an option to hit Pokemon such as Landorus or Dragonite super effectively, but without Hidden Power Fire Magnezone struggles to get past many Pokemon that it is normally supposed to beat, particularly Ferrothorn
    • Despite having many common resistances, Flash Cannon provides decent neutral coverage with Magnezone's other moves and is safer to use than Volt Switch or Thunderbolt in most cases because nothing is immune to it
    • Thunderbolt is used in the last slot for Electric-type STAB that does not force it to switch out, but it as being locked into an Electric-type move is commonly a liability and Volt Switch is usually the better move to use in most situations because of its fantastic momentum, so Thunderbolt should only be used in rare situations

    Set Details
    ========
    • With maximum Speed investment and a Choice Scarf, Magnezone reaches 360 Speed, enough to outpace fully invested base 112 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Lucario and anything slower
    • Max Special Attack EVs are used to give Magnezone enough power to be offensively threatening
    Usage Tips
    ========
    • This set performs the same Steel-type trapping roles as the Choice Specs set. In addition, it also makes for a decent revenge killer. However, compared to most Choice Scarf users, Scarf Magnezone is rather slow and will rarely be able to outspeed boosted threats.
    • With a Choice Scarf, Magnezone is able to outspeed and trap Pokemon it could have never dreamed of on a different set, such as weakened Mega Lucario, Heatran, and Excadrill. However, this set is rather weak compared to Magnezone's other sets and can only revenge kill weakened threats or Pokemon weak to its STABs.
    • Scarf Magnezone is rather lacking in power at times, especially compared to its other sets. Because of this, Volt Switch is a more important tool than ever because it allows Magnezone to escape from threats such as Mega Lucario that it outspeeds but can't OHKO and can OHKO Magnezone in return, opening the way for a teammate to pick off the now weakened Pokemon.

    Team Options
    ========
    • Although this set isn't quite as proficient of a trapper as the Choice Specs set due to the drop in power, it still does a fairly good job at removing certain Pokemon that can be a roadblock for other sweepers. As such, this Magnezone still works best on teams that appreciate the removal of opposing Steel-type Pokemon.
    • Because this set is still too slow to be able to revenge kill many faster threats, pairing it with a faster Choice Scarf user can be a good idea. Rotom-Wash is a good candidate, as it has decent synergy with Magnezone and has little trouble with Ground-types.
    • Relying on Magnezone as a team's only revenge killer can be a bit risky due to its slow Speed for a Choice Scarfer. Talonflame is a great revenge killer that pairs nicely with Magnezone as Magnezone resists two of Talonflame's weaknesses and Talonflame resists all of Magnezone's.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2014
  12. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    in moves
  13. RawrKitties

    RawrKitties

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    Is there any option to replace hp fire or ice? Im trying to breed a magnezone ingame and breeding for hidden powers is extremely hard :/
  14. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

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    For competitive purposes, no. Magnezone really appreciates that Hidden Power coverage, and it gets nothing in its movepool that makes a good substitue (hehe) for that slot.
  15. PokemonBreeder

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  16. bwebber

    bwebber

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    I've honestly found it more useful to run more than 84 Spe. It's pretty pointless to try to trap Mega Scizor if it's just gonna U-Turn out.
  17. dice

    dice practitioner of the city
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    remove analytic plz it's just not good. specs is alright i guess
  18. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    Done. I've moved it to OO along with Scarf and Substitute.
  19. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    21:06 AccidentalGreed: Okay
    21:06 AccidentalGreed: Approved
    21:06 AccidentalGreed" 1/3
  20. Jukain

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  21. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    This has been written up and is ready for a final check.
  22. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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  23. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    This is ready for GP. I would really appreciate a copypaste if it's not too much to ask. :)
  24. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
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    Magnemite

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    Overview
    ########
    At first glance, there seems to be little reason to use Magnezone in OU. It's slow, has crippling weaknesses to common attacking types, and there are better Electric-type options available, such as the ever-useful Thundurus-I. However, luckily for Magnezone, magnets are magnetic. Its signature ability, Magnet Pull, gives it the excellent niche of being able to trap and remove many common Steel-types, making a good partner for certain sweepers, such as Mega Pinsir or Dragonite. It also has a whopping 11 resistances and 1 immunity, the most of any Pokemon in the game. However, at the end of the day, Magnezone is still a rather niche option, and it can struggle to be very effective outside of its niche, which is shrinking more and more by the generation.

    Choice Specs
    ########
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Flash Cannon
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    ability: Magnet Pull
    item: Choice Specs
    evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
    nature: Modest

    Moves
    ========
    Volt Switch gains tons of momentum, especially against opposing Steel-types. Magnezone is also easily revenge killed by common Pokemon; (SC) Volt Switch can help mitigate this problem. Hidden Power Fire is used in the second slot as it OHKOes Scizor, Forretress with Sturdy broken, and Ferrothorn, all of which are very important for Magnezone to trap. However, Hidden Power Ice is an option for Pokemon such as Garchomp or Dragonite, but most Pokemon that it would be used to hit outpace and OHKO Magnezone. Additionally, Hidden Power Fire is usually too important to pass up. Flash Cannon hits Fairy-types super effectively and does quite a bit of neutral damage many of the Ground-types that commonly switch into Magnezone. Thunderbolt is used in the last slot for consistent secondary STAB that does not force Magnezone out, but it should not be used very often, (AC) as Pokemon locked into an Electric-type move are very easily exploited by common Ground-types, such as Excadrill.

    Set Details
    ========
    Maximum Special Attack investment is used to make the most of Magnezone's huge base 130 Special Attack. The listed Speed EVs let it outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory. The rest of EVs go into HP for more survivability. 144 Speed IVs can be used to outspeed min Speed Heatran, but beware that Heatran commonly runs Speed investment and can hit Magnezone much harder than it can hit Heatran. Because of this, it is generally a better idea to use the given spread rather than to try and trap Heatran, which is risky. Choice Specs is the main item, as without it a boosting item, Magnezone lacks the power to deal with many key threats.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    The main goal of this set is to trap and eliminate opposing Steel-types in order to allow teammates that have trouble getting past certain Steel-types to sweep. Magnezone is most effective at trapping Skarmory, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Klefki, but it can occasionally trap Jirachi and Heatran. Because Ground-types love to switch into Magnezone, locking yourself into Volt Switch or Thunderbolt isn't often a good idea if the opponent has a Ground-type. However, this problem can be somewhat dealt with by good prediction, as most Ground-types hate switching into Magnezone's other moves. For example, Excadrill has a small chance of being OHKOed by Hidden Power Fire on the switch. Similarly, Flash Cannon has a chance of OHKOing Landorus-T and Gliscor switch-ins on the switch after Stealth Rock. As this set's main targets are Steel-types, they are the Pokemon Magnezone should be switching in on most often. Ferrothorn and Skarmory and particular cannot touch Magnezone and are swiftly eliminated by it. Magnezone also outspeeds and OHKOes Scizor, but it must be wary of switching into a Superpower.

    Team Options
    ========
    Any Pokemon that needs certain Steel-types to be removed in order to sweep, such as Dragon Dance Dragonite, Swords Dance Mega Pinsir, or Calm Mind Clefable, makes a good partner to Magnezone. Teams that have trouble breaking through bulky Steel-types such as Skarmory or Ferrothorn as a whole also benefit from Magnezone as a teammate. Pokemon that can beat the bulky Ground-types that love to switch in on Magnezone, such as Rotom-Wash, Azumarill, or Manaphy, make good partners to it.

    Other Options
    ########
    A set with Analytic instead of Magnet Pull is usable as it lets Magnezone hit insanely hard with Choice Specs, but Magnezone is rather outclassed outside of trapping Steel-types, so it isn't all that great. Magnezone can also run a Choice Scarf set, however but it is very weak without a boosting item and is still quite slow, so it is ineffective at both revenge killing and Steel trapping. Magnezone can run a Substitute set with Leftovers, as Substitute protects it from being revenge killed after trapping a Steel-type, (RC) and can allow it to get and extra KO before needing to switch out. Assault Vest is a decent item on Magnezone, as it has good bulk and a ton of resistances. However, its common weaknesses and lackluster power without a boosting item prevent such a set from being too effective. Hidden Power Ground is an option that hits Heatran and opposing Magnezone, but Magnezone has no business staying in on Heatran the a majority of the time and the loss of Hidden Power Fire or Ice can severely hinder its ability to do its job against other Pokemon.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Ground-types**: Ground-types, such as Garchomp, Excadrill, Landorus, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Mamoswine, are a major thorn in Magnezone's side because they are immune to Volt Switch and Thunderbolt. In addition, they greatly threaten Magnezone with a STAB 4x super effective Earthquake or Earth Power. However, many of these Pokemon take massive damage from one of Magnezone's other moves, so they can't always freely switch into it. Dugtrio deserves special mention as it traps Magnezone and can OHKO it with Earthquake.

    **Fighting-types**: Fighting-types, particularly Terrakion, Conkeldurr, and Keldeo, can hit Magnezone hard with their super effective STAB moves. Despite this, they often take quite a bit of damage from Magnezone's moves and can easily lose momentum if they switch into a Volt Switch.

    **Fire-types**: Fire-types, such as Talonflame, Heatran, Volcarona, Mega Charizard X, and Mega Charizard Y, are very similar to Fighting-types in that they can easily check it but don't take its moves particularly well.

    **Earthquake**: Other common Earthquake users, such as Mega Pinsir, Mega Venusaur, or Dragonite, can easily deal with Magnezone, as Magnezone cannot take even non-STAB Ground-type moves.

    **Special Walls**: Special walls, such as Chansey, do not mind Magnezone's moves in most cases and many of them can simply heal off its futile attempts to damage them.

    [​IMG]
    1/2

    Sorry I don't really have the time to alter this to C/P, but there were so few changes I hope it's not a problem. Good work!
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  25. Magnemite

    Magnemite bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt
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    Thanks! Implemented.

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