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Meloetta

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Rising_Dusk, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Borrowed the first post from the Dream World thread on Meloetta to show before the original one, since it had some errors in how Meloetta works mechanically, and that changed how accurate the sets were.


    Saving the original post below
  2. Bogmire

    Bogmire

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    The normal form would have been so much better off as part Ghost (as would every other Psychic type but that's another story). Still, it looks like an amazing Gengar counter with that huge special defense and Shadow Ball immunity. I predict it will end up as another Cresselia in the long run, though, because normal/psychic lacks crucial resistances added with the unfortunate pursuit weakness. 128 base SpA is nice, but it's STAB is probably the worst in the game next to poison.
  3. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Meloia will undoubtedly serve an important niche in the metagame. Check out this set, for example:

    Meloia-S@Life Orb
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe

    Sing
    Shadow Claw
    Claw Sharpen
    Close Combat

    Instead of being an all-out attacker like the OP set, this version of Meloia utilizes Claw sharpen to boost its attack, and, more importantly, the accuracy of Sing. Assuming that +1 accuracy is still a 33% boost, Sing is now 73% accurate, just 2 points below Sleep Powder. If successful, it could allow for a second Claw Sharpen and a sweep.
  4. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    Both seem like extremely useful Pokemon, but I personally prefer the first form. Base 90 Speed is not terrible, but the extra defenses and Normal/Psychic typing give it very useful niches as a counter to Pokemon such as Gengar (in fact, you could say this is perhaps the Gengar counter and that would be very impressive.

    Possible set:

    Meloia@ Leftovers
    Bold
    252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
    Charge Beam (100% chance of boost)
    Psychic (20% chance of drop)
    Grass Knot
    Hidden Power Fire

    This set is used more as a defensive coverage set, letting you boost every turn with Charge Beam should you use it and giving you 3 useful Priority moves to use. With 128 Base SpA, you are doing big damage extremely quick, especially with the boost, but the EVs being stacked into your defenses allow you to still rebound against Pokemon such as Zapdos who may try to switch in once they know what you are doing.

    This Pokemon also has a great use as a Suicune counter, outspeeding Suicune who use no Speed while hitting faster Cune harder with Grass Knot.
  5. Green Mage

    Green Mage

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    I'm more interested in her step form than anything else (a sprite would be cool if you've seen it anywhere). I'd also like a list of her moves with secondary effects. As it stands right now though, her step form stat spread is excellent and so is her type coverage and support pool. Something like u-turn, close combat, shadow claw and something like sing would be awesome.
  6. Garganator

    Garganator

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    One obvious partner is perfect here - Tyranitar, especially ScarfTTar (just to hit first before some Ghosts use nasty WoW). U-Turn from Ghosts (only pokemon resisting Normal + Fight), go to Tyranitar and Crunch/Pursuit poor Ghosts to death. After this Meloia-S is free to have fun. I think Tyranitar should be always paired with Meloia-S, however this nasty Fighting weakness is troublesome. If you hate it so much, it may be replaced with Spiritomb (however in this sickly hard-hitting metagame Spiritomb won't look that appealing though) or... Shanderaa with Shadow Tag - almost the same scenario like with Tyranitar - U-turn from Ghost, go to Shanderaa (IMO Scarf will be the best here) and just easily OHKO enemy ghost back.

    To be honest I see less uses for Normal form, especially when it doesn't learn Reflect (with this wonderfull bulk and solid speed, she would be good Dual Screener) and Calm Mind sounds nice in theory, however her STAB combination is just sad. But on the other hand I think that Normal+Psychic+Fighting is... unresisted and Serene Grace (if it doesn't change this Gen) DOUBLES boosts, so in one use you boost +2 SpD and SpA, which is certainly nice. Only mediocre speed here is problem.

    EDIT: Then it's quite interesting because in the past on Calm Mind Blissey in analyses Serene Grace was posted as an option to DOUBLE her boosts. Maybe it was mistake... if yes, then ignore this point. But when I think about this, it was mistake after all - Togekiss after one Nasty Plot would have... +4 bonus, so it would be kinda too strong.
  7. reyscarface

    reyscarface
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    Meloia Normal Forme - Normal / Psychic

    Meloia Step Forme - Normal / Fighting


    Meloia is quite an interesting Pokemon, its one of the few Normal Types that also carry another type, not counting the very common Normal / Flying Pokemons. The most interesting aspect of Meloia is, possibly, the differences between its formes. The Normal Meloia Forme is based on the Special Side, holding great Special Offense and Defense, with decent speed. This is the opposite for the Step Forme. In this case, Meloia takes a whole new approach, using an insane Attack stat and a blistering Speed in exchange of its Special Tankiness.


    In depth stuff:


    Meloia Normal Forme:

    Stats - 100 HP / 77 ATK / 77 DEF / 90 SPD / 128 SPATK / 128 SPDEF

    Meloia Step Forme:

    Stats - 100 HP / 128 ATK / 90 DEF / 128 SPD / 77 SPATK / 77 SPDEF

    Ability: Serene Grace - Yes, good old Serene Grace. Feeling lucky?

    Level up Moves (open)

    M496 @ 1 - Special Normal PP: 15 Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: [E12D]
    Quick Attack @ 6
    Confusion @ 11
    Sing @ 16
    Teeter Dance @ 21
    M512 @ 26 - Physical Flying PP: 15 Power: 55 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: [E13D]
    Psybeam @ 31
    M497 @ 36 - Special Normal PP: 15 Power: 40 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: [E12E]
    U-turn @ 43
    Wake-Up Slap @ 50
    Psychic @ 57
    Hyper Voice @ 64
    Role Play @ 71
    Close Combat @ 78
    Perish Song @ 85


    From this list, the things we can start seeing as "standard" are Psychic, for the Normal Forme; Close Combat, U-Turn and Quick Attack, for the Step Forme; and 2 interesting moves, Perish Song and Sing, which can be used to support the team in a variety of ways. The new moves seem to be pretty weak, unless their effects (which I think are unknown) make up for the power, which is quite possible.

    TM Moves (open)

    TM01 - Claw Sharpen
    TM03 - Psycho Shock
    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM16 - Light Screen
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM19 - Telekinesis
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM24 - Thunderbolt
    TM25 - Thunder
    TM27 - Return
    TM29 - Psychic
    TM30 - Shadow Ball
    TM31 - Brick Break
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM47 - Ankle Sweep
    TM48 - Troll
    TM49 - Echo Voice
    TM52 - Focus Blast
    TM53 - Energy Ball
    TM56 - Fling
    TM57 - Charge Beam
    TM62 - Acrobat
    TM63 - Embargo
    TM65 - Shadow Claw
    TM66 - Payback
    TM67 - Get Even
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM71 - Stone Edge
    TM73 - Thunder Wave
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM83 - Cheer Up
    TM85 - Dream Eater
    TM86 - Grass Knot
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM89 - U-Turn
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM92 - Trick Room
    TM94 - Rock Smash
    HM04 - Strength


    This list is pretty damn big if you ask me, here is the capitalization of everything Meloia can do, getting an insane amount of tools to use. We can see status support stuff like Trick Room, Thunder Wave, Light Screen, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Toxic, and Safeguard. Normal Meloia jumps high due to the addition of Calm Mind, Grass Knot, Thunder and Thunderbolt, and the powerful Focus Blast. Step Forme gets a huge boost too, with Stone Edge, Shadow Claw for those annoying ghosts, STAB Return, and Claw Sharpen to aid a sweep.
    Theres one move there that stands up though, Cheer Up, which lets Meloia go mixed. The Normal Forme can now use Psychic and Close Combat, while the Step Forme can use the same combo too, the possibilities are really endless.


    Possible Sets:

    Normal Forme:

    Calm Minder
    Meloia @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 Spe
    Nature: Modest / Bold
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Focus Blast / Grass Knot
    ~ Substitute / Thunder Wave / Thunder / Sing

    This set would work kind of like the bulky Jirachi nowadays. It would get in on something like Blissey, get a Substitute up, and start Calm Minding. Psychic is your STAB, and Focus Blast acts as a Blissey and Tyranitar killer, not even mentioning steels like Heatran. You can use Grass Knot to still hit Tyranitar but also hit Water, Ground and other Rock types hard. Last spot can be used for Substitute to evade Status moves, Thunder Wave to make up for the "slow" speed of Meloia, or Thunder, to act as a Pseudo Thunder Wave due to 60% chance of paralysis while hitting the Waters very hard, and Skarmory too, though the miss chance is off putting. Sing is a "gimmick", though it can help Meloia a lot by sleeping a Counter and keep Calm Minding.

    Support
    Meloia @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 Spe or more emphasis on the special side, you pick depending on the role.
    Nature: Bold / Careful
    ~ Toxic / Thunder Wave
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Perish Song
    ~ Focus Blast

    This Meloia would work as a "team supporter" of sorts, kind of the role that Celebi takes on a stall team as an "oh shit" button for last Pokemon Set Upper. It also works very well with Layers, forcing switches with Perish Song. First move depends on whether you want to cripple Offensive stuff, or Defensive stuff, Toxic for walls and Thunder Wave for sweepers. Your 2 moves should be Psychic and Focus Blast, one for STAB and the other to complete coverage.


    Step Forme:

    Life Orb Sweeper
    Meloia-S @ Life Orb
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Claw Sharpen
    ~ Return / Shadow Claw / U-Turn
    ~ Return / Shadow Claw / U-Turn

    Although Meloia would really like SD instead of Claw Sharpen, Claw Sharpen still works nicely in order to give Meloia that last "oomph" and hit as hard as possible. CC and Return are very good STABs considering the only things that resist Return are Ghost, Rock and Steel. The latter 2 are mauled by CC, and Ghosts can be hit by a Shadow Claw. U-Turn can be used to scout early game. Incredible speed and fantastic attack make Meloia-S one truly fearsome sweeper.


    So, what are your thoughts on Meloia?
  8. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Serene Grace does not double boosts, you are thinking of Simple.

    Serene Grace doubles the chance of added effects.
  9. Ace Emerald

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    I would say aiming mark for perfect STAB coverage. But yeah this looks scary.
  10. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    I totally didn't even realize when I first posted, but apparently Psycho Shock is the move that hits on an opponent's Defense while using your own Special Attack. If that's true, then a Calm Mind set with Psycho Shock, HP Ground, and Thunderbolt would absolutely wreck things. That's really exciting for normal forme, and makes me think it will be rather popular in the testing.
  11. Yilx

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    As I plan to form a team around Meloia when I do play, one thing I have to say is that her normal forme's 90 base SPE would be more of a liability than anything if she were to start sweeping teams... looking at the speed tiers of this generation, 90 is actually quite slow.

    Her Step Forme, however... 128 Speed and impressive bulk together with that 128 base ATK would mean things are in a world of HURT.

    A mixed set would probably be utilizing Focus Blast, Claw Sharpen, Return and Shadow Ball/Shadow Claw.
  12. scarletnova

    scarletnova

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    Barring the fact that this thing learns close combat, it sucks in general. A Pokemon with Serene Grace but nothing to abuse?
  13. Arc Tech

    Arc Tech

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    While the ability is wasted, it doesn't really need it. 128 atk and speed and decent bulk, or good special bulk with decent speed and high atk, with a great movepool both on both sides (really only missing swords dance and nasty plot).
  14. black_cotton

    black_cotton

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    the step form, might actually run a decent choice set since she is part fighting ,and by extension resists stealth rock , a banded version can be useable with that great speed.

    Meloia-S @ Choice band
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Quick Attack
    ~ Shadow Claw / Return
    ~ U-turn / Claw Sharpen

    fast u-turn for scouting counters, close combat as a physical stab move, quick attack to finish weakened foes, and shadow claw for the always presents ghosts. Sounds decent to me.
  15. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Actually, Choice Band is very viable with Meloia's Speed. I hadn't given that much thought before. That set would hit extremely hard too with a base 128 Attack stat, just barely under the likes of Machamp, Scizor, and Breloom. The issue is that Fighting/Ghost coverage is very easily handled when Choice-locked, but when you can switch moves with her Speed, it becomes far more difficult to handle. Gengar, for instance, can come into a Choice-locked CC without fear, whereas he will be remiss to switch into a Meloia that can switch attacks for fear of an OHKO from Shadow Claw.
  16. |DarkSector|

    |DarkSector|

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    my favourite <3
  17. black_cotton

    black_cotton

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    True, but like any other choice set prediction is key and u-turn really help to prevent the situation that you said, anyways a LO meloia would be a late game sweeper while choiced one would work like a scouter in early/mid game and revenge killer or late game sweeper when you know the whole opponent team very different and somewhat useable play styles.
    i don't know but meloia looks like a mix of the great things that scizor and flygon have as choiced users
    1-u-turn
    2-great atk stat.
    3- great speed

    let's wait and see , nevertheless meloia is already great poke.
  18. Acklow

    Acklow

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    A Mixed attacker could work:

    Meroetta @ Leftovers
    Hasty/Naive or Timid/Jolly
    128 Atk/128 SpAtk/252 Spe (or 252 HP, as listed above)
    -Cheer Up
    -Close Combat
    -Shadow Ball
    -Substitute/Stone Edge

    With this moveset, you utilize a mixed set. If you opt for Substitute, you lose coverage against the likes of Normal/Flying types, but if you put Stone Edge in there, you get practically rounded coverage.
  19. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Normal has base 77 Atk, and Step has base 77 SpA. It's not going mixed.
  20. Acklow

    Acklow

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    Erm, I see, my bad. I guess the guy who made that other thread totally messed up with the Base Stats.
  21. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    No, he just listed the stats in a different order. Problem is, he didn't give any indication of what order he was using other than the base stats themselves.
  22. pkmn-taicho321

    pkmn-taicho321

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    thank god! A Serene Grace pokemon without a flinching move (unless I missed something o.O). A generation of Flinch Haxing is over, thanks to our Ground Steel mole tearing Jirachi a new one, and everything and it's mother pressuring Togekiss with massive attack.
  23. Wanderer

    Wanderer

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    To me, Meloia seems very reminiscent of Zangoose, except with a much wider movepool and STAB on Close Combat (in Step forme, anyway). I think Stone Edge is a possibility on the Claw Sharpen set as its accuracy is boosted and it's able to hit the defensive flyers (and Shanderaa, if a defensive set ever becomes popular) harder. Unlike Return, Stone Edge ensures an OHKO on defensive Zapdos with SR and LO, while it hits defensive Gyarados for 60.31% - 70.99%. It does lose the ability to kill ghosts as effectively, though. I think it's possible for Meloia to run Adamant on this set (lets it OHKO that Gyarados with rocks), given its immense speed (still beats out base 115s).

    For Normal forme, the normal Psychic-type counters worry me, but at least it can outspeed and kill non-Scarf Tyranitar with no trouble. U-turn on Normal forme looks very promising as a lure for those aforementioned Pokemon, which lets you switch into Shanderaa for Scizor or one of the many Fighting-types for Tyranitar.
  24. howabe

    howabe

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    OK... So details have now emerged about Meloia's signature move (#547 - 'Ancient Song') and her alternate Forme: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/989552-pokemon-black-version/56460375

    After a bit of testing, I now know the following:
    - Every time Ancient Song is used in battle, Meloia changes Forme
    - Outside of battle, Meloia is always in her Voice Forme, even if you finished a battle in her Step Forme

    This means it is only possible to begin a battle in Voice Forme.
  25. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Right, thats from Serebii. Its annoyiing but potentially has uses depending on what Ancient Song does (e.g. no Blissey walling your normal form)>)

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