The only thing that Abra really encourages in the meta is not randomly setting up and expecting to 6-0 someone, as well as managing priority. Pawniard's usage is high because Pawniard itself is amazing. It can't even properly check Abra because of the threat of being KO'd by HP Fighting. Abra's Sub set honestly isn't even that great any more because of how common Scarf Mienfoo and Pawniard are.This is the first time I'm posting here so a little nervous :x. I just want to talk about Fletchling and Abra. Both of them imo should be getting a suspect. Abra for its amazing coverage being able to go at least 2 for 1 with most teams except those carrying Munchlax, and forces some really predictable plays, and really makes playing against it a series of coin flips. Case in point being that even with a Sucker Punch/Pursuit Pokemon you can't completely beat it. Especially with its substitute set which I find to be the single most dangerous special pokemon in this metagame. Magic Guard is what pushes Abra over the edge for me. Gastly possess similar characteristics but can't guarantee a 1 for exchange. Abra seems to have forced the metagame to form around it in that Pawniard is now extremely common, and noting that trend HP:Fighting Abra has become extremely common. It is not unforeseen to go 3 - 1 with Abra,letting something else on your team pick up the pieces.
Fletchling was already suspected and it was found that while its priority is powerful, there are simply too many checks in the metagame for it to be an overly dangerous threat. Most Rock/Steel/Electric-types can check it with ease, and anything particularly bulky handles it, too. Its metagame hasn't changed at all since the last suspect so that's even more of a reason to not suspect it.Moving on to Fletchling, its not broken per se but I don't quite like how it forces every offensive team to just slap on a Chinchou(which by the way is worn down extremely quickly if berry juice and call it a day. Fletchling with very minor support can also pull back huge comeback sweeps thanks to its strong acrobatics. Again Fletchling is not really broken in that Tirtouga/Chinchou/more check it quite solidly. I just find it to be a nuisance so when the time comes I will most likely put my vote forward for an Abra ban.
Yea I tried to clear that up with the brackets: I meant BP recipient Natu as in the variant with Stored Power that isn't LO Psychic which can probably do major damage to Mienfoo. Unboosted Stored Power doesn't even 3HKO Mienfoo. I'm assuming that's the variant he meant as well.Natu doesn't get BP and Magic Bounce (idk if you know that already but I figured it's worth clearing up for the sake of discussion).
Burned Drilbur at +6 is really hard to wall and my point still stands and I made it realizing that +6 burned is not +6. What was this BP barrier mon survived 2 attacks? Maybe Shelmet with Iron Defense and some luck but you said Barrier so I assume it wasn't that in your battle.So the issue was that a burned +6 Drilbur couldn't break through their barrier mon, resulting in a situation where they could get to +6 Defense while I could only get to the equivalent of +2 (x4/2).
First and foremost, you got outplayed there because Torchic is going to either Protect or switch turn 1 versus Foo because anything else is too risky since they'll have to start predicting at that point. Knock Off turn 1 is safer.The issue with Natu is that by cold switching to it on the taunt, they got a free turn to switch to something that could set up if I took foo out, threaten to KO foo if I stayed in, or switch to something not threatened by tauntless foo to set up or KO.To summarize the rest of the battle, I switched out, they switched out to Torchic, I switched foo back in, attempted a taunt to which natu had come back again, didn't switch this time and went for Knock Off, and was promptly KOed. Then I lost.
Really it was sort of a 50/50, and my teambuilding skills aren't that bad, Heysup, what are you saying.
People have this tendency to say "I don't feel it's broken, it's just ____ (unhealthy/frustrating/not fun etc)" but then focus primarily on the brokenness aspect. That being said, explaining how it can conceivably work or how you got outplayed and lost does not support any of those arguments, including brokenness.My Wobb point isn't what you interpret it as. I meant a comparison to the lesser usage allowing for persuasion for banning to be largely based on paper as opposed to actual usage examples (replays, ways it was actually beaten). Many Gen IV players actually feel that it wasn't broken at all, both due to the metagame's power overcoming it and that it was possible to beat without devastating losses.
I want to clarify I don't feel BP is broken, just as Quote said, frustrating.
These were my thoughts (I've expressed them in bold and Italics quoting Artemis Fowl's post) about Baton Pass and they're similar to Kopaka's one. I will vote to nerf/ban Baton Pass (initially I didn't want to do that, but I've realized that matchup can be very annoying against this kind of teams). I'm saying this also because there'll be a whole LC Official Circuit to play and I think that we should avoid every kind of luckbased teams as well as matchup-related teams. I'm sure that battles will become more interesting if this advice will be followed. I've played some battles against Baton Pass teams in this ladder and, even if I had a bad matchup, I won some battles by getting a lucky crit or a Will-O-Wisp miss. I think that Baton Pass isn't broken, but it needs to be nerfed at least in the Tournament scene to get an higher level of competiveness in this tier which is always disparaged because of speed ties and other stupid stuff.Midgame
- Taunt & Encore.
Nobody gets Oblivious and Baton pass in LC. Nobody gets Magic Guard and Baton pass in LC. Well, natu does. But it's incompatible. Also, taunt isn't stopped by Mime Jr's soundproof, nor is it by Substitute.
In short : Nobody in LC is able to handle Taunt/Encore during a baton pass team's midgame. Natu can be receiver, but cannot pass. Espeon isn't in LC, to sum it up.
Except for Taunt Stunky (never seen that lol) and Cottonee (the same as Stunky), Mienfoo as a Taunt user can't deal with Baton Pass (due to its weaknesses) as well. The most-common Taunt user have a ridicolous usage of 6-7%, and Taunt doesn't always appear on their Movesets. For example Cottonee can't waste a slot for Taunt, because it needs all the other moves in order to provide an easy set up for the teammates (Memento, Stun Spore, Encore, Giga Drain/Dazzling Gleam). Encore is a major problem, but cottonee is well known for being a very passive Pokemon against the majority of "normal teams", set up fodder of a good portion of the meta, etc. So I don't think that Cottonee will increase its usage in order to stop Baton Pass Chains because the team could suffer against other playstyles.
- Whirlwind.
If Mime Jr can handle roar, nothing can handle Whirlwind. Having whirlwind will stop any baton pass team from proceeding. In short, Smeagle isn't in LC : you cannot pass Roots. So one cannot handle phazing in LC. 99% of BP teams in BW had smeargle to pass roots at all costs, and there was a reason.
Taunt on Mienfoo could be a good niche for Baton Pass Chains if you fear the phazing (which is well-known for being very common lol). The only Pokemon with this niche could be Hippopotas tbh (even if I prefer Rock Slide for Fletchling).
- THE GOD DAMN STURDY
YES THAT'S IN BOLD AND THAT'S IN CAPS. There is dwebble, there is magnemite, there is onix, there is focus sash abra, there is tirtouga, but there is no way to handle BP ? If you let a baton pass team that is under permanent pressure put spikes (there is only shelmet who can put spikes, and nobody can put rocks) and preventing you from defoging and spinning, that is an achievement and you fairly deserve your loss !
Will-O-Wisp + Encore stop Shell Smashers with Sturdy that are able to deal impressive damage to the BP Chain. While for Sturdy, you have already mentioned Shelmet and yes, I think it's necessary in a BP Chain in order to break Sturdy-Juice.
- Your setups. A baton pass player cannot handle setuping until he gets speed to deal with it. Any attempt to setup against a well made & well played baton pass team during midgame will most likely be unsuccessful. But explain me how is your opponent going to handle your +6 Magby with his torchic ?
- Your wallbreakers. Same thing, a baton pass is most likely unable to handle the repeated assaults of a wallbreaker before his defenses are set up.
For exemple, scarf spout frillish basically destroys 90% of pass teams.
This isn't a good example, I mean in this suspect I have seen lots of times Gothita in Aerow's team and in Kopaka's importable (read above). Wallbreakers (including the absolutely powerful Scarf Frillish lol) are generally revenge-killed or at least weakened by Gothita.
- Your setups. A baton pass player cannot handle setuping until he gets speed to deal with it. Any attempt to setup against a well made & well played baton pass team during midgame will most likely be unsuccessful. But explain me how is your opponent going to handle your +6 Magby with his torchic?
Read above, Gothita can win by using Trick against Set Up Pokemon. I know that Gothita isn't part of the Baton Pass Chain, but it's necessary as well.
Also, there are no rock type / electric type / steel type pokemon in lc that learns baton pass. Now can pro baton pass ban talk their way out of the following question : "How do you handle fletchling?"
Generally Will-O-Wisp Torchic can easily handle with it (as I've said Gothita can also Trick its Choice Scarf in order to weaken Acrobatics and prevent Fletchling from setting up).
My point here is simple.
No matter what kind of team you are playing, you can take a baton pass check following your team's idea.
No, you can't.
236+ SpA Gothita Psychic vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKOGothita happens to trap and eliminate or at the very least cripple almost every major threat to Baton Pass teams, such as Taunt Mienfoo, Fletchling, and Skrelp.
At least read this before 1 line posts :/You trick a scarf onto them and then attack them/go to torch and begin setting up
Furthermore, Tricking Pokemon with U-turn, regardless of it being a lead scenario (which I said wasn't necessary in the first place) or not loses you major momentum and potentially boosts that you needed. You basically start behind a turn and BP is the kind of team that will get wrecked as soon as it happens. Psuedo Encoring with Gothita TrickScarf and setting up BP is a novel idea (maybe not even gimmicky), I'll give you that, but most of the Pokemon it's doing that against have a way around it that has basically no risk (or 6.3% risk) due to U-turn. If you don't lead with Gothita, you end your chain with it, and Gothita is walled by a lot of things. It's also worth noting that due to having Gothita and 2 other Psychics, your chain is really weak defensively compared to other ones. Hence why Ghosts, Pawniard, Vahna etc, will all give you trouble.1) Like 80% of the arguments presented rely on Gothita. I mean it seems obvious, but once you switch to Gothita, your chain is broken which usually means victory for your opponent unless they are bad. Having your chain broken means you need to start over with less health, no Defense boosts and no attack boosts.
Yea but my point is that it doesn't actually help you much because you get U-turned on, especially by Mienfoo who can U-turn to Fletchling and end the game almost immediately. I don't think you realize how weak your team is to Fletchling and dismiss it as a lead. You'll see in a replay I post later.Heysup, I was addressing Merritt's concern that Gothita does't actually beat the things I said it did (it may not beat them but neither Tauntfoo or Fletchling like a scarf very much).
<snip>
Regarding the Mienfoo vs. Gothita matchup that Merritt brought up:
You forgot to account for the fact that whatever Mienfoo comes in on to Taunt will almost certainly outspeed and Baton Pass the accumulated boosts to Gothita. This means that Gothita generally has the advantage especially if it comes in on a Taunt (most common scenario). If it comes in on a Knock Off, Gothita still most likely wins, since standard fastfoo needs a max roll to actually OHKO Gothita
Leading with a set-up bait Pokemon doesn't help your case. Torchic lead is usually the best shot a BP team has. Gothita lead is high risk, even if the reward is sometimes winning the game any reasonably smart player will not put something out that will lose them the game on turn 1......Regarding some of the points you made:
-I think Tricking misconstrued a couple of things. I generally only use Gothita to win lead matchups that I would otherwise lose (strong Water-types, Taunt Mienfoo, SD Drilbur), since in my experience they usually end up deciding the game. If you don't lead with these threats or bring them out early (when breaking the chain by going to Gothita isn't as big of a deal), it's pften too late for them to be effective. As for setup sweepers, Encore Mime Jr. with a few Speed boosts deals with them well.
Sorry to say but I feel like you could only say this if you've never faced it. Think about it for a second.-Chinchou doesn't actually force Torchic to pass out of it (unless scarfchou but you lose then regardless). You can keep using Sub/Protect until they use Volt Switch, and then you have the upper hand.
It's fair to say that if people actually gave a shit about BP (which they really shouldn't), then they'd use WW on those Pokemon.-I'll admit that I forgot about Munchlax and Vullaby learning Whirlwind (although that changes the fact that Whirlwind is extremely uncommon on those two especially compared to Hippopotas). Either way, Whirlwind is typically pretty easy to see coming and like most of the other checks is usually revealed relatively early. It's still one of the best answers to BP though.
Yeah I defs agree with the post by unfixable. Tbh Mienfoo can put in a lot of work late game against the right mons if you played well, although I might be biased cause I always lost to some guy with a Spritzee that never died >.<K, I laddered and I was having a hard time coming up with things I'd like to see suspected. At the moment, I felt that the tier was pretty balanced, for the most part. I only saw two Pokemon who stood out as being close to what's considered broken or overcentralizing, and even then I was not 100% sold on either of these Pokemon.
Firstly, Mienfoo is a Pokemon that I saw on about 40 out of the 50 actual teams I played against. It's not that Mienfoo is inherently broken, it's just that it has the ability to beat nearly every single Pokemon in the tier one-on-one. Sure, loads of others can do that, but Mienfoo has an excellent movepool, ability, stat spread, and synergy with a lot of the tier. A simple set of Drain Punch / Knock Off / U-turn / [Taunt / Acrobatics / whatever] is able to remove Eviolite, keep itself healthy with Drain Punch off of a Pokemon with now lessened bulk, and keep momentum up to abuse Regenerator on top of this. Looking over at the Sample Teams thread, 5/5 of the teams carry a Mienfoo on it. It's so easy to slap on a team and do amazingly with. It's really not that Mienfoo is broken in itself, it's just a very centralizing Pokemon. Mienfoo just... feels like a suspect-worthy Pokemon; however, I'm not entirely sold on banning it completely but I would be interested in how a Suspect would be received.
Regarding blinkie's comment: I whole-heartedly agree that it is an incredibly splashable Pokemon, but I really don't agree with it being useless late game. In fact, I relied on it late game a lot of the times because it is incredibly easy to walk over weakened teams. Using Knock Off early match is an excellent way to wear down Pokemon in the end so Mienfoo can clean up via Drain Punch. Mienfoo can beat other Mienfoo one-on-one late game as well, through Knock Off -> Drain Punch, which is a bonus in itself. It receives competition from Croagunk and Pancham, but Croagunk is more useful for countering Fighting-types anyways, I don't see how it should be brought up in an argument for Pokemon "running Poison coverage." It's a lot tougher to wear down than you're giving it credit for. Between a powerful Drain Punch, and U-turn + Regenerator shenanigans, it's tough to wear down unless you let it die. Using Mienfoo as a deathfodder is a bad use of it imo. It's good throughout the entire match. Just don't think you're giving Mienfoo enough credit is all.
Now, regarding Baton Pass. I used Baton Pass for awhile and it's definitely not broken. My idea with Baton Pass is that it either autoloses or autowins, with autoloses being about 70-75% of the time. All it takes is a good player, and they will not let you set up. Any removal of any boosts is a huge hinderance as well, because it means that your chain is disrupted. Facing competent players, as Heysup stated, will almost always end up with Baton Pass being the losing side. Fletchling, Chinchou, and phasing are three very viable, and great, ways to beat Baton Pass. Sure, if your opponent lets you attain boosts and then get into Munna, you're going to autowin, but it's a lot harder in practice than it is on paper. I'm sure you've laddered a bunch using Baton Pass, I don't doubt that, but it's still incredibly matchup reliant. Baton Pass has been covered by Heysup excellently, so I'll leave it at that.
Abra is a Pokemon I'm seeing discussed as well, but I do not think it's broken. Its typing is very bad to use alongside Magic Guard, and Abra's only use for it is being immune to hazards. Focus Sash is just annoying, but without it Abra is sitting bait for anything to OHKO really. Life Orb sets are powerful, yes, but they face the issue I just mentioned. Abra's unable to hit everything it needs to with just one set. Protect / Psyshock / Dazzling Gleam / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Fighting is what it needs / wants to run, and it can't. Without Protect, it's beaten by Fake Out; without Dazzling Gleam, Scraggy; without Shadow Ball, Honedge; without Hidden Power Fighting, Pawniard. But why can't it run a mixture of them? Psychic / Ghost / Fighting would be the optimal coverage, but then Abra misses out on Scraggy, Vullaby, and is weak coverage in general when Fighting is just 60 base power. Abra has plenty of viable checks like Lickitung, Hippopotas, Stunky, etc. It's also incredibly easy to revenge kill as it's beaten by nearly all priority. I think Abra is a fantastic Pokemon with exceptional qualities, but there are too many flaws with it to make me believe it is broken.
Mienfoo isn't overwhelming in any way. It just fits well with every type of teams (and it's the only Fighting-Type with U-Turn in order to gain momentum). I generally prefer Croagunk as Fighting-Type in my teams because I generally play Bulky Offense and I don't think I need U-Turn + Acrobatics in the majority of my teams. While when I play volt-turn teams I prefer using Mienfoo. Mienfoo helps to maintain the balance in the LC Metagame.K, I laddered and I was having a hard time coming up with things I'd like to see suspected. At the moment, I felt that the tier was pretty balanced, for the most part. I only saw two Pokemon who stood out as being close to what's considered broken or overcentralizing, and even then I was not 100% sold on either of these Pokemon.
Firstly, Mienfoo is a Pokemon that I saw on about 40 out of the 50 actual teams I played against. It's not that Mienfoo is inherently broken, it's just that it has the ability to beat nearly every single Pokemon in the tier one-on-one. Sure, loads of others can do that, but Mienfoo has an excellent movepool, ability, stat spread, and synergy with a lot of the tier. A simple set of Drain Punch / Knock Off / U-turn / [Taunt / Acrobatics / whatever] is able to remove Eviolite, keep itself healthy with Drain Punch off of a Pokemon with now lessened bulk, and keep momentum up to abuse Regenerator on top of this. Looking over at the Sample Teams thread, 5/5 of the teams carry a Mienfoo on it. It's so easy to slap on a team and do amazingly with. It's really not that Mienfoo is broken in itself, it's just a very centralizing Pokemon. Mienfoo just... feels like a suspect-worthy Pokemon; however, I'm not entirely sold on banning it completely but I would be interested in how a Suspect would be received.
Regarding blinkie's comment: I whole-heartedly agree that it is an incredibly splashable Pokemon, but I really don't agree with it being useless late game. In fact, I relied on it late game a lot of the times because it is incredibly easy to walk over weakened teams. Using Knock Off early match is an excellent way to wear down Pokemon in the end so Mienfoo can clean up via Drain Punch. Mienfoo can beat other Mienfoo one-on-one late game as well, through Knock Off -> Drain Punch, which is a bonus in itself. It receives competition from Croagunk and Pancham, but Croagunk is more useful for countering Fighting-types anyways, I don't see how it should be brought up in an argument for Pokemon "running Poison coverage." It's a lot tougher to wear down than you're giving it credit for. Between a powerful Drain Punch, and U-turn + Regenerator shenanigans, it's tough to wear down unless you let it die. Using Mienfoo as a deathfodder is a bad use of it imo. It's good throughout the entire match. Just don't think you're giving Mienfoo enough credit is all.
Now, regarding Baton Pass. I used Baton Pass for awhile and it's definitely not broken. My idea with Baton Pass is that it either autoloses or autowins, with autoloses being about 70-75% of the time. All it takes is a good player, and they will not let you set up. Any removal of any boosts is a huge hinderance as well, because it means that your chain is disrupted. Facing competent players, as Heysup stated, will almost always end up with Baton Pass being the losing side. Fletchling, Chinchou, and phasing are three very viable, and great, ways to beat Baton Pass. Sure, if your opponent lets you attain boosts and then get into Munna, you're going to autowin, but it's a lot harder in practice than it is on paper. I'm sure you've laddered a bunch using Baton Pass, I don't doubt that, but it's still incredibly matchup reliant. Baton Pass has been covered by Heysup excellently, so I'll leave it at that.
Abra is a Pokemon I'm seeing discussed as well, but I do not think it's broken. Its typing is very bad to use alongside Magic Guard, and Abra's only use for it is being immune to hazards. Focus Sash is just annoying, but without it Abra is sitting bait for anything to OHKO really. Life Orb sets are powerful, yes, but they face the issue I just mentioned. Abra's unable to hit everything it needs to with just one set. Protect / Psyshock / Dazzling Gleam / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Fighting is what it needs / wants to run, and it can't. Without Protect, it's beaten by Fake Out; without Dazzling Gleam, Scraggy; without Shadow Ball, Honedge; without Hidden Power Fighting, Pawniard. But why can't it run a mixture of them? Psychic / Ghost / Fighting would be the optimal coverage, but then Abra misses out on Scraggy, Vullaby, and is weak coverage in general when Fighting is just 60 base power. Abra has plenty of viable checks like Lickitung, Hippopotas, Stunky, etc. It's also incredibly easy to revenge kill as it's beaten by nearly all priority. I think Abra is a fantastic Pokemon with exceptional qualities, but there are too many flaws with it to make me believe it is broken.
Torchic can burn the Shellder while Mime Jr. can just use Encore after the Shell Smash (it would be another 50/50 scenario and that's why I want to nominate them for the Suspect).Yeah I defs agree with the post by unfixable. Tbh Mienfoo can put in a lot of work late game against the right mons if you played well, although I might be biased cause I always lost to some guy with a Spritzee that never died >.<
Mienfoo definitely puts in more work early game than late game though, that was kind of the point I tired to get across. Although the bulky set isn't the only viable one, I've been surprised by a lot of Scarf sets and how hard they hit with Reckless HJK. Anyway I don't find Mienfoo broken, but I find it extremely over centralizing, which is grounds for a ban(at least in OU standards)
It deserves a suspect though...
I didn't really talk about BP so I guess I'll talk about it now.
I found that it was kind of matchup based, and more specifically, lead based. I fought a lot of people with BP, and most of them had a Torchic. They almost always led with it, and got killed by my Scarf Drilbur. However, sometimes when they fought me again, they led with Natu, and then doubled to a Mienfoo. So basically it really depends on the player, which is a good thing. Still, it takes many turns to set up Baton Pass chains, unlike in a less offense inclined meta such as OU. Again, I might be biased since I laddered with Snivy and Fletchinder...but other setup sweepers can do the same. For example, if you lead with a Shellder vs Torchic, Baton Pass teams will basically just autolose. In LC, mistakes by the BP user can really be punished easily, so I really don't find it good unless you fight someone that doesn't know what they're doing, ie setting up rocks against a booster. So definitely no ban for me.
Abra is also covered pretty well in the point above me, but although it can be a pain for HO to deal with, but as long as you have a decently bulky mon that can tank one hit, you should be able to win. Priority users can pick it off easily as well at its Sash. Against more bulky teams with stuff such as Pursuit Munchlax and Hippowdon, its not too hard to beat. Plus it really can't switch in on anything at all, so basically its just an emergency check against setup sweepers and a 1 for 1 trade which makes it a legitimately good mon, but not suspect worthy.
I don't think I ever said that, but could you elaborate? The justification "we all know it" only works on TV; it shouldn't fly here. While that statement is a bit extreme, it's has some almost undeniable truth to it because we've addressed every angle of BP. So, in order to nominate it, you don't necessarily not understand the aim of the suspect test (because frankly, it's unclear), but you would be ignoring logic and reason.Then (Heysup won't agree lol) I wouldn't say that every good player has an answer in his team for Baton Pass chains... But I won't say more things about this topic because I feel it depends on the player's style. In addiction "if you want to ban Baton Pass from the tier, you don't understand the aim of the Suspect Test" isn't a good statement, and we all know it. Council will decide, but I think I'm nominating Baton Pass unless I change my mind before voting.
Torchic is a 50/50, but Mime Jr. is 2HKOed by Icicle Spear so there's no 50/50 there if you lead with it. Furthermore, I demonstrated already that you don't need to lead with a set up Pokemon, you can just Volt Switch to one or switch into it on a Pokemon without the right boosts to counter yours.Torchic can burn the Shellder while Mime Jr. can just use Encore after the Shell Smash (it would be another 50/50 scenario and that's why I want to nominate them for the Suspect).
That argument doesn't hold, because you dont keep broken pokemon in the meta just to check other potentially broken pokemon, otherwise neither murkrow/gligar/misdreavus/tite/swirlix/yanma should have been banned since all of them had direct advantage over mienfoo, and then mienfoo was very solid but not the most powerful pokemon in the tier as he is now.In addition, although I know we don't look at the impacts of bans, I would be shocked if Pawniard didn't suddenly shoot up in viability if Mienfoo left. Mienfoo is one of the few counters that can repeatedly come in, due to higher speed and regenerator, while things like Timburr are very prone to being worn down.
You're right about the argument of broken things not checking broken things being something that we shouldn't consider, however that argument is inapplicable altogether since neither Mienfoo or Pawniard are broken. Even the people who want to suspect Mienfoo admit it's just "unhealthy", not necessarily broken.I think that the fact that mienfoo can repeatedly switch in most pokemons in the meta such as pawniard as you said, and reliably force them out or 2hko them (even 1hko) at almost 0 cost reveals how broken it can be at times, very simillar to how gligar also could switch into everywhere and set up/u-turn or get away with it almost everytime. The only way to force mienfoo out is using literally fairy and poison types almost for that single roll, like snubbull, spritzee, koffing, etc, so yeah, i dont think you can say Mienfoo doesn't centralize, because these fairy and poison types are almost dedicated to just counter him and timburr.
1) I feel like I'm kicking a dead horse here, but Mienfoo can't do all of those things and maintain it's usefulness unlike Gligar.The fact that Mienfoo can be unpredictable and run different sets that require different answers, is another factor that mixes in his centralization that literally forces you to run hard counters for him, that's if you don't want to be right away swept by him, and until you can tell for sure that the mienfoo isn't some scarf/life orb Reckless HJK, you'll probably have a pokemon faint and your revenge killer faint until you realize it, since all mienfoo reliable counters are slower than him and it's almost impossible to wear him down. Even so, mienfoo can still simply avoid these counters and u-turn out regenerating 30% and actually gaining momentum over the opponent or even set up the turn it forces something out and baton pass to something that checks it's checks. Teambuilding with mienfoo is as simple as it gets: run mienfoo, run something to counter fairies, run something to counter poison run something to pursuit trap abra/gastly, then just go mienfoo all the time wearing them down with knock off, and then 2hko or u-turn any pokemon in the tier in the next switch in, force them out, revenge kill with mienfoo, u-turn out, repeat. It's as dumb as it gets, mienfoo wears down almost everything, switches out, mienfoo revenge kills almost everything (that's not called spritzee).
What makes it over the top in my opinion is also the coverage. Sure mienfoo has some 4mss, but when you are building a team, you have to have in consideration all mienfoo possibilities and run checks for each and every coverage of him. Vullaby used to be a reliable check, but mienfoo can simply run stone edge and wreck it, abra is certainly a good check for mienfoo, unless mienfoo has feint/fake out, other fighting types like timburr and croagunk can simply be worned out by knock off and acro, and to be honest the few reliable counters in the meta are the ones i've mentioned above and few more, which all share the same particularity of either lacking recovery or momentum to take on him the whole match. At most you can make spritzee switch 2-3 times on mienfoo, because if he u-turns out you'll simply lack momentum to have the possibility to wish/protect and she ends up worn out easily either by stealth rocks or just mienfoo.