Pokémon Milotic

[Patrick1088]

Why has there been little mention on resttalk milotic? Sleep mechanics changed a d it has the great upgrades last gen in scald and dragon tail.

Milotic@leftovers
Marvel scale
bold nature
252 hp/252 def/4 sp attack
-rest
-sleep talk
-scald
-dragon tail

Scald spreads burns and dragon tail to force switches. The new fairies that are immune to dragon will hate getting burned (mawile and azumarril)

 

[All-ice]

Why has there been little mention on resttalk milotic? Sleep mechanics changed a d it has the great upgrades last gen in scald and dragon tail.

Milotic@leftovers
Marvel scale
bold nature
252 hp/252 def/4 sp attack
-rest
-sleep talk
-scald
-dragon tail

Scald spreads burns and dragon tail to force switches. The new fairies that are immune to dragon will hate getting burned (mawile and azumarril)

Three people already mentioned Sleep mechanics ...

Also why not switch to your Fire Type for Scizor/Mawile/Fortress/Ferrothorn/Abomasnow? Fire and Water type with a grass type is a common core ._.

 

[Aquaslash]

I personally wouldn't run HP fire on Milotic (or HP in general), but I can somewhat understand why people would want to.

 

[Sirya]

Curiosity, why haze over dragon tail? Milotic's also my absolute favorite, and I always used dragon tail, it was perfect when they switched I could read it, doubling SR/spikes damage. Or just forcing out something threatening and scalding, passing burns around. Plus rest talking dragon tail was beautiful on skipping their turns

Only thing I can think of is bulky substitutes

That's the problem.

I have been using a Milotic with Haze instead of Dragon Tail in Generation V for that reason. Milotic tends to go for a Bold or Modest Nature, the oponent didn't need to use an excepcionally bulky Pokémon, almost anything with subs can stay in and setup in your face.

I don't like Dragon Tail in Milotic because that reason, and the fact that it has 90 accuracy. I know, 90 accuracy is pretty good, but when you are about to stop a potential sweep, you can't rely on that. On the other side, Haze works trough anything but Taunt. The only thing you are missing is the residual damage, but well... I think it depends on your team.

 

[Yuno1]

Why has there been little mention on resttalk milotic? Sleep mechanics changed a d it has the great upgrades last gen in scald and dragon tail.

Milotic@leftovers
Marvel scale
bold nature
252 hp/252 def/4 sp attack
-rest
-sleep talk
-scald
-dragon tail

Scald spreads burns and dragon tail to force switches. The new fairies that are immune to dragon will hate getting burned (mawile and azumarril)

This exactly

That's the problem.

I have been using a Milotic with Haze instead of Dragon Tail in Generation V for that reason. Milotic tends to go for a Bold or Modest Nature, the oponent didn't need to use an excepcionally bulky Pokémon, almost anything with subs can stay in and setup in your face.

I don't like Dragon Tail in Milotic because that reason, and the fact that it has 90 accuracy. I know, 90 accuracy is pretty good, but when you are about to stop a potential sweep, you can't rely on that. On the other side, Haze works trough anything but Taunt. The only thing you are missing is the residual damage, but well... I think it depends on your team.

I've usually experienced dealing with sub boosting pokemon pretty easily, if I see a sub, it usually will break in 2 hits, so depending on the timing of when they use the sub and I use dtail (and depending on the pokemon), I either break it once, then switch to skarmory when they sub and whirlwind it out, or just switch and whirlwind as soon as I see the sub

Understandable about the 90% comment, never been an issue for me, but after focus blast missed 8 TIMES IN A ROW I stayed away from too low accuracy moves

My other issue with haze is that it keeps them in. Passing pokemon in and out that don't want to be in/out at that time is great for switching mindgames and hazards (the former being more important to me) and of course passing burn around. I'd hate a strong pokemon staying in and hitting me with an attack, I use haze, then they can power up again and hit me with another attack, to which I have to haze again or heal and risk dying to another boost. Haze only seems good on faster pokemon

 

[Patrick1088]

Three people already mentioned Sleep mechanics ...

Also why not switch to your Fire Type for Scizor/Mawile/Fortress/Ferrothorn/Abomasnow? Fire and Water type with a grass type is a common core ._.

Yes but nobody posted an actual set.

 

[GLS]

I've been trying both the resttalk and competitive builds for Milotic out. Resttalk actually still works pretty well. Not a stand out by any means, but still a very viable option in Pokebank OU. Ran into a few Resttalking Suicunes as opponents too and it was nice to have the phazing to win those match ups. The only problem is it is ridiculously difficult to keep hazards up, significantly killing any chance of racking up residual damage and making this build more or less dead weight.

Which lead me to start using the competitive build as an answer to all those defogs running around. Once I got up to speed on predicting what was running Defog and getting the appropriate switch ins I was able to really test out Milotics offensive abilities. With Scald, Ice Beam and HP Grass I found them to be incredibly lacking even at +2. It seems like Hydro Pump will be necessary which unfortunately cuts down on staying power significantly since Milotics defense is so lackluster.

Has anyone had better success running Milotic?

 

[Yuno1]

Just got a feebas so I'm going to start testing, but I have a question first if anybody knows: The EVs of Milotic, what are they based on?

Most sets I see these days have 252 HP and 252 Def with 4 in SpAtk or SpDef, but is that necessary? Does having 252 Def let it survive more hits from some OU pokemon, or are people just giving as much def as possible? So what I'm asking is, were Milotic's ev spreads damage calculator tested?

I used the calm 252 HP 200 Def 56 SpDef rest talker back in RSE and that let me survive just enough, but then pokemon got stronger as the gens progressed so I switched to the standard now. Any opinions on this?

 

[Aquaslash]

I presume the EVs are to take as many hits as possible since her physical defense is the lower of the two.

 

[Yuno1]

I presume the EVs are to take as many hits as possible since her physical defense is the lower of the two.

No I mean, it may not need that much defense if the main OU threats can already, say, 2hko her, then those EVs can be invested elsewhere. I was wondering if the EV spread was tested with the top OU guys or just thrown on so it can survive in general

 

[Aquaslash]

That I'm not sure of, as I haven't extensively tested less defensive builds. I've tried a few competitive builds and she did ok, as simply having recover greatly extends her longevity.

 

[NotSoClutch]

I've been trying both the resttalk and competitive builds for Milotic out. Resttalk actually still works pretty well. Not a stand out by any means, but still a very viable option in Pokebank OU. Ran into a few Resttalking Suicunes as opponents too and it was nice to have the phazing to win those match ups. The only problem is it is ridiculously difficult to keep hazards up, significantly killing any chance of racking up residual damage and making this build more or less dead weight.

Which lead me to start using the competitive build as an answer to all those defogs running around. Once I got up to speed on predicting what was running Defog and getting the appropriate switch ins I was able to really test out Milotics offensive abilities. With Scald, Ice Beam and HP Grass I found them to be incredibly lacking even at +2. It seems like Hydro Pump will be necessary which unfortunately cuts down on staying power significantly since Milotics defense is so lackluster.

Has anyone had better success running Milotic?

I actually run bulky competitive milotic from time to time. I often get hit by things like special defense drops from shadow balls and physics, so it's really nice to be able to counteract that with a more powerful scald. I've been really impressed with milotics ability to take a hit, even without marvel scale, so the extra boost in power is always nice. Being able to punish mandibuzz with a +2 ice beam is just an added bonus.

 

[zachmac]

No I mean, it may not need that much defense if the main OU threats can already, say, 2hko her, then those EVs can be invested elsewhere. I was wondering if the EV spread was tested with the top OU guys or just thrown on so it can survive in general

You're asking an excellent question here. There are sometimes cases where only a specific amount of EVs in a stat is needed.

However, we need to look at it past damage calculations. Yes, one spread may be enough for a defensive pokemon to avoid being 3HKOed by a certain pokemon, but running even more defense is still ideal for said wall because you can't always be certain that the pokemon won't take any extra damage from hits before or after facing the pokemon to last land a blow. We can't always assume it'll be at a specific amount of health.

Sometimes the simple answer of "maximizing" it's ability to take damage is the best. That said, there is still the possibility that it'll want some EVs in sp.att to 2HKO a certain threat or some in special defense to help counter/check another one, but that will probably boil down to the specific team. I guess the best way to tell is to wait for the metagame to settle down just a little bit more and find out what pokemon barely manage to beat it.

 

[Yuno1]

You're asking an excellent question here. There are sometimes cases where only a specific amount of EVs in a stat is needed.

However, we need to look at it past damage calculations. Yes, one spread may be enough for a defensive pokemon to avoid being 3HKOed by a certain pokemon, but running even more defense is still ideal for said wall because you can't always be certain that the pokemon won't take any extra damage from hits before or after facing the pokemon to last land a blow. We can't always assume it'll be at a specific amount of health.

Sometimes the simple answer of "maximizing" it's ability to take damage is the best. That said, there is still the possibility that it'll want some EVs in sp.att to 2HKO a certain threat or some in special defense to help counter/check another one, but that will probably boil down to the specific team. I guess the best way to tell is to wait for the metagame to settle down just a little bit more and find out what pokemon barely manage to beat it.

You get it exactly! Thank you.

This means I'll start testing out the standard Milotic against all the new guys and new builds to see where it's lacking. I have a feeling that with the power creep that I'll either need more defense, or less and have more special defense to dual tank better. We'll see

 

[PizzaDelivery]

I normally use this set in OU:

Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze

Nothing drastically different to what's been mentioned already, but I like being able to cripple other waters/bulky pokemon with toxic. Ice beam can help deal with dragons, but I prefer to use other pokemon for the job because even with max defence/bold Milotic struggles to take boosted physical attacks, and most grass types won't care about your weak ice beam. Haze has a few things over dragon tail - perfect accuracy, works through subs, works on fairies, and also lets you get in first. Might not seem terribly important on a slow defensive pokemon, but it lets you haze away the boosts of slower pokemon like Mega Mawile, Swords Dance Scizor and Aegislash, and maybe even Belly Drum Azumarill (not sure how much speed it commonly runs). In a pinch you can also get rid of boosts aquired by bulky sweepers such as Clefable and Reuniclus, though killing them is a different matter, and would usually have to be done by a teamate or a very long stall. Finally, Haze can be nice in getting rid of the odd stat drop from a Shadow Ball or Crunch, though if running Competitive, maybe I'd use something else.

I like the idea of Competitive on a team with lots of hazards. I will give it a try.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

There is little reason to use Competitive until Milotic gets a new coverage move, but I will hold out and wait--even if it takes several generations. Milotic really got trolled again this generation because it got a decent new ability, but no moves to warrant its use. Jellicent, Tentacruel, Starmie, Lanturn, Phione and Manaphy all got Dazzling Gleam--there's no evidence that Milotic will ever get a move like Moonblast and there are no water moves that deserve anything older scald. Was really hoping it might get Blastoise treatment and get something like Dark Pulse, or Aura Sphere. Just a set of Water Move/Ice Beam/Dragon Tail/Last Coverage Move would be great, but we don't have any extra coverage because of the Hidden Power Nerf. And honestly, Gastrodon isn't going to see enough usage to warrant Hidden power Grass, Rotom-W takes nothing and can do terrible damage back.

For the time being, I recommend a moveset of Scald/Recover then pick any two out of Toxic, Hypnosis, Mirror Coat, Haze, Ice Beam, and Dragon Tail, or Haze. It still has mixed defensive stats that let it check **some** stuff, but you need a specific reason to use it. Bold or Calm. Rest, Sleep Talk, Scald, Dragon Tail could still be fun, I guess...

 

[PizzaDelivery]

I think the main idea behind Competitive is to deter or take advantage of Defog users. I don't know how viable it is on a spike stacking team, just because a +2 uninvested scald still isn't that hard to switch into, but it's worth thinking about. I don't think a 3 attacks+dragon tail set without recover is very good on Milotic, even if it gets another coverage option. I think I'd rather use something faster/stronger in that role.

Just about the only way you can really punish Rotom-Wash is by poisoning it, IMO. The standard bulky Rotom-W can't do much damage to Milotic (usually barely 3HKOs with Volt Switch), which means you can afford to stay in on it to try and cripple it.

 

[innki]

Using this online and really having fun with it :D

Milotic Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/ 252 DEF/ 4 SPA

Scald
Ice Beam
Rest
Sleep talk

 

[chuie]

Resttalk will probably make a return, due to the return of the old Sleep Mechanics. She'll be a decent wall, but still outclassed by a lot of mons. She'll be fine in UU or RU if the powercreep is too high in UU now.

Who is Milotic outclassed by exactly? It may not seem like a big thing but only a scant number of competitive bulky waters carry instant recovery: Slowbro, Slowking, and Milotic. This already distinguishes it from most bulky waters.

While Slowbro/king has Regenerator and therefore greater staying power, its Psychic typing makes it exposed to more type weaknesses. Milotic on the other hand can virtually take on anything not Electric or Grass and beat them down with a combination of Scald/Ice Beam/Toxic.

Competitive may have its niche on stall teams, but it seems there aren't enough opportunities to abuse it to warrant a spot anywhere else. I think Milotic will continue to do what it's always been; a mixed tank with instant recovery, excellent typing, and status absorption.

 

[Aquaslash]

Offensive variants are supposedly outclassed by Suicune who has calm mind to boost himself. I know very little about Suicune though so I can't say if he has as much longevity as Milotic

 

[PizzaDelivery]

Offensive variants might be outclassed by Suicune, but using either in that way isn't really viable, at least in OU. As a bulky water, the biggest thing Milotic has over Suicune is instant recovery that doesn't force you to go to sleep, which is huge.

The best comparison is Vaporeon, who has similar bulk and slightly higher special attack in exchange for being slower. It has the Wish passing niche which is why it's often preferred to Milotic, but if you're not bothered about passing wishes, Milotic has the niche of being able to fit both Toxic and Haze on the same set, which allows you to deal with a surprising number of boosting threats.

 

[IcyMan28]

With Defog and Sticky Web around, I wouldn't say that offensive (Competitive Milotic) is entirely outclassed by Suicune. It still has instant recovery and a similar movepool. If I had to use it, I'd probably dig up the old offensive tank set from Gen 4 and tweak the EVs a bit. It was actually rather effective in UU and hits surprisingly hard.

Other than that, I think Milotic remains out of luck. It got trolled super hard by remaining mono-water (the fact that it got a new ability means GF specifically looked at it and denied it fairy type), and doesn't have any new coverage moves to speak of. ResTalk is a bit more viable with the return of old sleep mechanics but at that point I'd probably opt for Suicune's ability to boost and give you a win condition late game. I just don't know what to do with Milotic that wouldn't be outclassed by other waters. Hypnosis?

 

[Rainbow Yaoi Fan 69]

I always have to run scald on Milotic. Scald is just so freakin good! Hmm haven't tried out competitive yet. It sounds very nice but I feel like it would rarely activate. :(

 

[Sōusuke Aizen]

I don't recommend using competitive because it has too many factors involved in activating it.

 

[GLS]

I use competitive on my team and once you get good at predicting defog you can get it to activate regularly. And even if you don't is still a decent tank. I've had milotic hold up in battles even without the boost.

It help that I have spikes and rocks on my team though to really bait opponent into clearing.