Yup this is a decent set so long as you have dedicated physical walls in your team. I would prefer lefties to wacan but whichever works I suppose. Mirror coat is a good move as long as you're able to predict well. Hypnosis makes for a surprise although it is really shaky at best :/
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Milotic
- Thread starter Aquaslash
- Start date
- Status
The Wacan berry interests me. How do you really play with that? Been a while since I've really dug into OU, but from what I remember, one of the more common electric attacks is Rotom-W's volt switch, and that's only a 3HKO at best, so it seems like a waste.
I think it may also be for Thundurus/Thundurus-T, Zapdos and possibly Latios with t-bolts. The first one is dangerous cos of Nasty Plot but I think this Milotic can deal with the latter two.
I have a question: On all these forums, the EVs that are suggested for each stat don't add up to 510, the maximum amount. Why is that? I mean, you'd want to max out its EVs to make it fully trained, right?
So basically, you can just use those two last EVs on anything? For example, I could use 10 speed EVs instead of 8 and it wouldn't matter?
Exactly
Thanks, that clears things up.
Well, there is certainly no harm in making Milotic fully specially defensive since that is its strongest stat after all. It all boils down to what you need Milotic to handle. Oh, and you might want to use mirror coat since that's what all that special defense EVs would be for.
Finally able to reply! Like skyhigh said, it's not a horrible idea, since she has a pretty meaty special defense. You would have to play it a bit differently than you'd normally play a Milotic though. I'd definitely go for Marvel Scale over Competitive for something like this, cause you'll want all the help you can get physically. Honestly, with her kind of HP/SpDef, you might want to try a stallish build that has toxic to wear down opposing special walls.
The only real reason I see it OU viable is if you need a bulky water that also stops defoggers from easily hitting defog as she can switch in with competitive, apart from the she is outclassed imo as there are better bulky waters and better defog stoppers, so if you need 1 pokemon for that I guess you can use her.
Unlike Bisharp, Milotic lacks Priority, Knock Off, and the ability to get past Clefable, which makes it much more difficult to punish the Defog.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
+2 252+ SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 358-423 (90.8 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
I don't see what knock off has to do with anything.
Milotic is definitely outclassed and only has a place in ou as being majestic af, but it can certainly get past clefable (why is this a significant quality anyway?)
That's what I said she is outclassed but she can fit a defog stopper and a bulky attacker into 1 pokemon.
Not if Clefable is Unaware....
I think the only thing Milotic is truly outclassed at is being a bulky Water rest talker. I think each of the other bulky waters (assuming Slowbro, Gastrodon, and Quagsire) bring a different thing to the table. Milotic has the niche of having the best typing of those 4 as the others either have a dangerous weakness or can be obliterated by their one weakness. If she manages to snag a boost, she can mow through both Skarmory and Mandibuzz, which is pretty neat in itself.
"If she gets a boost to her SpA she can mow through a physical wall" okay.
Also, I think you're forgetting about Suicune.
4 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 204-240 (51.7 - 60.9%)
4 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 134-162 (34 - 41.1%)
252+ SpA Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 176-210 (44.6 - 53.2%)
4 Atk Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 158-188 (39.1 - 46.5%)
252+ SpA Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 188-224 (46.5 - 55.4%)
Suicune does not need to be asleep to have its massive physical bulk, and even with Marvel Scale active, Suicune is only a tad less bulky on both sides.
However, Suicune's defining feature is Pressure. If faced with an opponent that it can't break through, Suicune can just stall out its PP. It also makes threatening moves not as threatening, e.g. KyuB will have a mere four uses of Fusion Bolt, and Giga Drain will only get eight chances to crit.
It's not that I forgot about Suicune, it's that I made some 14 revisions to that post and took him out of the very last one. I initially said that the only thing Milotic is truly outclassed at is the rest/talk set, which Suicine has on lockdown. However, aside from that, Milotic has instant recovery that doesn't leaver her a sitting duck, which Suicune does not. Aside from that one set, the differences between the two, even with the calcs you've posted (thanks for those btw), are negligible at best, and not enough to say "you're always at a disadvantage by using this mon". If I'm out to use Suicune, then I probably have a completely different strategy than I would use with Milotic. Same with Gastrodon, Quagsire, etc.
All five mons each have a different niche that they bring to the table, and it really just boils down to what your team needs more.
I don't think this would make a difference at all, since AFAIK, there's only one special priority attack and it isn't water type, or a move that Milotic would ever have. Even if she did have Aqua Jet, you'd never use it cause it wouldn't hit for jack.
If you ask me, Milotic is definitely OU viable. She has the stats and the moves - she just needs the right team members and support. This can be said for most pokemon although minimally it has got to have the stats going for it and Milotic has no problem in this department. With the wrong synergy, any pokemon is shit. No one guy can handle 6 other guys at one go without the right set-up.
Whether Milotic is outclassed or not really depends on what you want her to do. I use a standard physically defensive Milotic in my OU teams to great success (landing me in the 1700+ range) and mind you, this has been Milotic's bread-and-butter set since it debuted in gen 3. I think it's amazing that Milotic's standard set has seen her through so many games and we still don't see it being completely useless. She's durable, in a certain way.
Again, it is true that she has no priority and whatever. Even so, it is not to say there are no merits in using her. If she was that bad I probably wouldn't be getting more than decent points in the ladder. So what can she bring to the table?
So my point really is to give Milotic a go. I know it isn't the behemoth it used to be back in gen 3 but hey, play to her strengths and you can get really good results too - I know I did.
PS: In the view of upcoming new Megas, hopefully Milotic would get an upgrade. I can foresee Mega-Milotic taking the metagame by storm as it would probably be the next biggest defensive threat out there, just like how Mega-Venusaur did.
Whether Milotic is outclassed or not really depends on what you want her to do. I use a standard physically defensive Milotic in my OU teams to great success (landing me in the 1700+ range) and mind you, this has been Milotic's bread-and-butter set since it debuted in gen 3. I think it's amazing that Milotic's standard set has seen her through so many games and we still don't see it being completely useless. She's durable, in a certain way.
Again, it is true that she has no priority and whatever. Even so, it is not to say there are no merits in using her. If she was that bad I probably wouldn't be getting more than decent points in the ladder. So what can she bring to the table?
- Reliable instant recovery which suicune and vaporeon would kill to have;
- The lack of a secondary typing which removes any additional weaknesses (yes, the lack of resistances hurt too, yada yada);
- Rest talk Milotic is pretty damn durable (though unpredictable - GF should just stop making sleep talk pick rest because it is retarded);
- Excellent dual abilities. A defensive Competitive Milotic is really not that bad. It would have the bulk and a +2 Milotic even with just 4 SpA EVs is decent. Granted, you're not sweeping anytime soon but hey, a surprise is a surprise and it may just nab you that crucial win for I have experienced this myself quite a few times. Just give it a go before you guys bash it any further.
- HAZE. This is an excellent move. Enuff said.
So my point really is to give Milotic a go. I know it isn't the behemoth it used to be back in gen 3 but hey, play to her strengths and you can get really good results too - I know I did.
PS: In the view of upcoming new Megas, hopefully Milotic would get an upgrade. I can foresee Mega-Milotic taking the metagame by storm as it would probably be the next biggest defensive threat out there, just like how Mega-Venusaur did.
Problem with Milotic her niches are outclass, want a defog blocker pick Bisharp, want a bulky wall Suicune does it better, except in special defense bulk but only by a bit while it's defence is much higher than milotic and its hp is aswell, suicune can also pp stall better with pressure, when suicune gets water absorb it can switch into scalds so it doesnt fear the burn, she may have a better special attack but she can't boost this (unless you get defogged) like suicune can with calm mind which also gives him a better special defense bulk, sure milotic has recover but then you can't really use rest since, recover rest sleep talk scald/hydro pump suck, so you cant use its ability well since pokemon can just switch into the scald/hydro and set up on you.
Now vaporeon and Milotic you can argue one is better than the other and vice versa it depends on what role you need, vaporeon is better at support since wish, heal bell etc, it also has a higher special attack at the cost of some speed, it also fits better on rain teams since hydration but milotic is slightly more bulkers, doesnt have to run protect to heal can defog block.
Now vaporeon and Milotic you can argue one is better than the other and vice versa it depends on what role you need, vaporeon is better at support since wish, heal bell etc, it also has a higher special attack at the cost of some speed, it also fits better on rain teams since hydration but milotic is slightly more bulkers, doesnt have to run protect to heal can defog block.
I don't deny that competition is stiff these days with the advent of new pokemon and new evolutions. I guess I'm persistent on Milotic because it's one of my favourites and it hasn't let me down so far as I believe I've been giving her the right team support.
To each his own I guess!
So...Milotic got trolled over in the latest games again. Despite having been one of the most popular and powerful pokemon back in gen 3, Milotic did not gain anything significant from this new generation at all. The much anticipated mega evolution gave Milotic a miss and I believe quite a lot of people are terribly upset over it as well.
The only thing(s) Milotic got are some new moves, namely Coil and Disarming Voice. Now, with the latter being a fairy typed move, most people would have hoped that Milotic gained a new secondary fairy typing but no it did not. I seriously have no idea what the hell is gamefreak doing. But anyway, the only thing is Milotic is now finally able to stat-boost by itself after what seemed like an eternity.
A new moveset foreseeable is:
Milotic Leftovers
Nature: Calm/Sassy
Ability: Competitive
248HP/ 128 Def/ 132 Sp Def
- Scald/ Hydro Pump
- Recover
- Dragon Tail/ Mirror Coat
- Coil
I know this looks gimmicky but Milotic is a very solid mixed wall after 1-2 coils. To put things into perspective, conkeldurr only does 15% with drain punch after Milotic sets up. Scald is preferred because of its ability to burn and possibly for Milotic to then stall its opponents out with recover. Hydro Pump won't miss again after you use coil but its pathetic pp and lack of secondary effect kinda sucks. Coming off an uninvested sp attack seems pointless anyway. Dragon tail prevents opposing pokemon from setting up and rack up entry hazard damage, whilst Mirror Coat takes advantage of its phenomenal special defense.
With coil patching up its physical side, you can run a lot of sp def EVs to make Milotic as bulky as possible. I prefer running some defense EVs so that Milotic won't die so easily even before setting up with Coil. The best teammates for it are for instance, Ferrothorn, Celebi or Roserade with their ability to set up entry hazards and for Milotic to shuffle the opponents around with. Competitive is preferred because of defoggers and has the potential of letting Milotic hit harder. With a ton of sp def evs, even mega manectric's volt switch does not 2HKO.
In all, this is quite a fun set that has its downsides as well: dragon tail simply does not bypass fairies and substitutes. Breloom and Clefable remains extremely dangerous threats with the former being able to either put it to sleep and set up subs or straight up attack with bullet seed, and the latter with its magic guard and calm mind whilst Milotic remains helpless against it since clefable can't be phazed out with dragon tail. Thus, dedicated counters against those two are sorely needed (think Talonflame/ Scizor/ Heatran etc). So, I'm not saying this is OU material but just that it has the potential to become the best mixed wall or tank ever in pokemon with a pure water typing and instant recovery. It's there to be a stumbling block and wear down opponents by shuffling them and rack up entry hazard damage (at least that's how I see it being played, if at all). Feel free to pump in more sp def evs anyway.
I just wished Milotic got a secondary typing or mega evolution instead :(
The only thing(s) Milotic got are some new moves, namely Coil and Disarming Voice. Now, with the latter being a fairy typed move, most people would have hoped that Milotic gained a new secondary fairy typing but no it did not. I seriously have no idea what the hell is gamefreak doing. But anyway, the only thing is Milotic is now finally able to stat-boost by itself after what seemed like an eternity.
A new moveset foreseeable is:
Milotic Leftovers
Nature: Calm/Sassy
Ability: Competitive
248HP/ 128 Def/ 132 Sp Def
- Scald/ Hydro Pump
- Recover
- Dragon Tail/ Mirror Coat
- Coil
I know this looks gimmicky but Milotic is a very solid mixed wall after 1-2 coils. To put things into perspective, conkeldurr only does 15% with drain punch after Milotic sets up. Scald is preferred because of its ability to burn and possibly for Milotic to then stall its opponents out with recover. Hydro Pump won't miss again after you use coil but its pathetic pp and lack of secondary effect kinda sucks. Coming off an uninvested sp attack seems pointless anyway. Dragon tail prevents opposing pokemon from setting up and rack up entry hazard damage, whilst Mirror Coat takes advantage of its phenomenal special defense.
With coil patching up its physical side, you can run a lot of sp def EVs to make Milotic as bulky as possible. I prefer running some defense EVs so that Milotic won't die so easily even before setting up with Coil. The best teammates for it are for instance, Ferrothorn, Celebi or Roserade with their ability to set up entry hazards and for Milotic to shuffle the opponents around with. Competitive is preferred because of defoggers and has the potential of letting Milotic hit harder. With a ton of sp def evs, even mega manectric's volt switch does not 2HKO.
In all, this is quite a fun set that has its downsides as well: dragon tail simply does not bypass fairies and substitutes. Breloom and Clefable remains extremely dangerous threats with the former being able to either put it to sleep and set up subs or straight up attack with bullet seed, and the latter with its magic guard and calm mind whilst Milotic remains helpless against it since clefable can't be phazed out with dragon tail. Thus, dedicated counters against those two are sorely needed (think Talonflame/ Scizor/ Heatran etc). So, I'm not saying this is OU material but just that it has the potential to become the best mixed wall or tank ever in pokemon with a pure water typing and instant recovery. It's there to be a stumbling block and wear down opponents by shuffling them and rack up entry hazard damage (at least that's how I see it being played, if at all). Feel free to pump in more sp def evs anyway.
I just wished Milotic got a secondary typing or mega evolution instead :(
With the addition of Coil, Blizzard might be worth giving a go, since Coil can patch up the accuracy issues. I actually didn't think of going full on special defensive and boosting to patch up the physical.
Guess we gotta wait til Z for that mega though, but at least we got something to fool around with.
Guess we gotta wait til Z for that mega though, but at least we got something to fool around with.
- Status