That'd be pretty cool, but it could cause confusion to some, even though it shows you what stone they are using. I doubt it'd be implemented 'cause it's not that important.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
M&M Mix and Mega
- Thread starter xavgb
- Start date
Well, GF distributing Mega Stones is certainly good news for MnM. It may take a while to have all Mega Stones available, though.
Considering we know that Mawilite and Beedrilite are gonna be released at the very least, could we release these ones already or should we wait until they actually are available?
Considering how both of those stones were banned outside of their original users last gen, I doubt it.
Beedrillite gives 60 Attack, 70 Speed, and drops SpA by 30 base points on top of Adaptability. This completely breaks every viable physical attacker (the next two closest stones outside of Mawilite and Medichamite [Pure/Huge Power stones] are Charizardite X and Lopunnite, and both of those are still significantly weaker than Beedrillite, not to mention nothing comes even CLOSE to the speed boost it provides), so thdhted is right, no way in hell it or Mawilite (+20 Attack, +40 to BOTH defenses, Huge Power) are staying.
I knew that GF wouldn't just leave us hanging regarding the missing Mega Stones...
As for this distribution pattern, one thing is clear... they're targeting the weaker ones first. Which means that Altarianite and especially Pidgeotite should be among our first stones, with Audinite following afterwards. Sadly, this also means that the Lati twin stones are going to be available pretty late into our lifespan, which kind of breaks my heart. (Or maybe they'll give it out sooner, given they are fan favorites...)
My verdict: Let's go by this schedule, and be ready to shift a few prepped quickbans when Pidgeotite is released. This seems pretty promising for linking up the ROM and this version in about 1.5 years, in which time gen 7 will still have tons of life left in it.
As for this distribution pattern, one thing is clear... they're targeting the weaker ones first. Which means that Altarianite and especially Pidgeotite should be among our first stones, with Audinite following afterwards. Sadly, this also means that the Lati twin stones are going to be available pretty late into our lifespan, which kind of breaks my heart. (Or maybe they'll give it out sooner, given they are fan favorites...)
My verdict: Let's go by this schedule, and be ready to shift a few prepped quickbans when Pidgeotite is released. This seems pretty promising for linking up the ROM and this version in about 1.5 years, in which time gen 7 will still have tons of life left in it.
Wait until they are officially released. The subsequent tiering in the MnM meta is up to the MnM council and Chloe.
The mega stones are coming the mega stones are coming the first will be mawhile and beedrill from what i have heard :P Alteralite noivern coming to the rescue!
sadly these dont affect the metagame... cause they are both banned...
sadly these dont affect the metagame... cause they are both banned...
There's a question in the SASQ thread asking if Zygarde-C would turn back into Zygard-50/10% if it were allowed to mega evolve because of the form mechanics, and if this did happen, could Zygarde-C possibly be able to hold a megastone in the future due to the fact that it's just regular Zygarde-50/10%. I just wanted to post here for those who don't check the simple questions thread. Tbh, I think it could work, but being able to change from a bulky af Zygarde into something like Altarianite Zygarde (I know it's not released yet), could be scary.
With the way that the mega stones are being released, I'm excited to see how the meta adapts each month, even if the new stones don't have a lot of permanent changes, people will still probably want to try out the new pokemon with the new mega stones, or use old mega stones with the buffed speed mechanic
imagine a beedrillite mimikyu. 55/150/80/20/105/166 with adaptability and a basically free swords dance. I know beedrillite isnt released and its banned anyway, and almost anything can be a major threat with beedrillite, but this one specifically. especially since mimikyu only runs stab moves anyway, this mon would be borked af.
For those of you who don't follow the tours forum or the opens thread, the Mix and Mega Open is now live. This is part of a big tournament that spans Other Metagames called the Other Metagames Grand Slam, and Mix and Mega's addition starts today. The Grand Slam is a group of small tourneys known as opens that earn all competitors points. After the last Open ends, the 8 players with the most points advance to a final tournament.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
I'm confused why a metagame that is somewhat dying in popularity due to lack of options, and a clear announcement by Nintendo that they will gradually release 2 mega stones in a contest, (ones which just happen to be banned outside of their original users- defeating the principle of this OM), with no indication on any other mega stones being released, should continue to lose more players.
Even the OP used Mega Altaria as an example in the first post, yet the Altarianite stone is unreleased. Based on the Nintendo announcement alone, it was as if the players had to remind Nintendo, "Hey what about the rest of the Mega Stones?"
I feel sorry for cartridge players- the first two have to be won in a contest. If they lose, how long do they have to wait to try and get them once again?
Even if Nintendo releases them 2 per month, won't it be around a year before we can get access to all of them?
Will the metagame itself survive that long to be worth the wait?
I know OMs try and match the cartridge games, but at some point, one has to ask "can the OM wait long enough for it to reach its true potential?" It is basically starving itself of players and true variance, and it may end up dead.
If one argues these 2 mega stones will be enough to hold us over for the next set, remind yourself, we have no specific guarantee- based on the current announcement, to even know when they will release the rest. Also does anyone believe Mega Beedrill and Mega Mawhile (since only they can use their own Mega stones) will add enough new viable users to keep the OM going? And for how long?
Again, we have no details on when the others that follow will be released, nor do we know the order or how many at one time.
Last edited:
YO. We have new usage data. Complete with Checks and Counters for the popular ones!
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen7mixandmega-1760.txt (Basic stats for main ladder)
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/moveset/gen7mixandmega-1760.txt (Moveset data for main ladder)
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/metagame/gen7mixandmega-1760.txt (Team information for main ladder)
We also have 93 Viability Ceilings now, which is kind of nuts. And as usual, I will bring some data back from all of this, besides the developments I have personally made. Look forward to it.
(Edit: Aegislash is at 90 VC... why Lax Lapras)
Edit 2: Messed up the Basic stats. NOW they should be right.
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/gen7mixandmega-1760.txt (Basic stats for main ladder)
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/moveset/gen7mixandmega-1760.txt (Moveset data for main ladder)
http://www.smogon.com/stats/2017-01/metagame/gen7mixandmega-1760.txt (Team information for main ladder)
We also have 93 Viability Ceilings now, which is kind of nuts. And as usual, I will bring some data back from all of this, besides the developments I have personally made. Look forward to it.
(Edit: Aegislash is at 90 VC... why Lax Lapras)
Edit 2: Messed up the Basic stats. NOW they should be right.
Last edited:
I really hope altarianite comes back soon, I miss my yanmega set
Yanmega @ Altarianite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Uproar
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz
Yanmega @ Altarianite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Uproar
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz
when Aggronite is released, what will happened to the mixing pokemon's type?
Its secondary typing will become steel. For example, if Togekiss mega evolved via Aggronite it would change from fairy + flying type to fairy + steel type. If the Aggronite user only has one typing then it will have the steel typing added on. If a pokemon with a steel primary type it will then either become or stay pure steel type.
No because this isn't a CAP metagame.
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
What if Steel is the second typing? Such as Empoleon's tyoing of Water + Steel? Will Aggronite remove the secondary typing? Remember aggronite removes aggron's rock typing
It should be worth mentioning that the council have decided Mawilite and Beedrillite should be banned from non-native users immediately as they release. This decision was made a month ago, following the announcement of the mega stone releases, as we have all agreed these Mega Stones will only aid towards the over-centralisation of offense, giving it all the utility it needs to make the playstyle extremely potent, and not letting defensive teams compete. I'll break each down into their own arguments.
*Technically, these Mega Stones were already banned when the banlist was carried over to Gen 7; however, for the sake of analysing their current place within the metagame, a conclusion on their status seems more appropriate now.
Mawilite +20 Atk / +40 Def / +40 SpD | Huge Power
Evidently, the stat increase present here isn't what makes it banworthy, it's an inferior Sablenite if solely considering that. Huge Power simply makes Mawilite overpowered in the selection of offensive stones, giving offensive presences over twice the amount of physical power, while aiding their longevity with the addition of 40 base points to each defense. Let's take a look at Pheromosa per se. At the moment it runs Lucarionite mainly, because that's its best option; however, with access to Mawilite, its power skyrockets.
Just a few, not so relevant calcs, to prove power rather than showcase how it performs against various threats.
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 322-379 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 415-490 (108.9 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 415-489 (99 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
This is only considering one user of the stone, while more powerful slower Pokémon can take advantage of the bulk increase and be quite effective in removing threats.
Beedrillite +60 Atk / -30 SpA / +70 Spe | Adaptability
Alternatively, for slow attackers that don't have the necessary bulk to survive hits even after the increase, Beedrillite may be a more appealing option. You rid of the marvellous ability in Huge Power for a fine ability in Adaptability, hence losing some attacking power, but easily making up for it with the large increase of Speed and a still massive attacking stat. The Attack increase is already stronger than any previously existing Mega Stones, compared to Lucarionite's +35 and Adaptability, this Mega Stone is too powerful for the metagame. Consider how potent Lucarionite currently is on physical attackers, then double its stat increases. This is basically that. This isn't as overtly broken as the first stone, but it is still easily banworthy.
If you want these back, you better wait for Game Freak to release a Fur Coat stone :P It's unfortunate that the two stones released first are two of the three that we plan to ban on release (the other being Medichamite), but it should mean that later on the metagame won't lose activity, due to the constant addition of other stones.
Tagging The Immortal to ensure Mawilite and Beedrillite are banned from non-native users when they're added.
Also, we agreed on the next suspect test, which will be Dragonite
. This should be coming up shortly.
*Technically, these Mega Stones were already banned when the banlist was carried over to Gen 7; however, for the sake of analysing their current place within the metagame, a conclusion on their status seems more appropriate now.
Evidently, the stat increase present here isn't what makes it banworthy, it's an inferior Sablenite if solely considering that. Huge Power simply makes Mawilite overpowered in the selection of offensive stones, giving offensive presences over twice the amount of physical power, while aiding their longevity with the addition of 40 base points to each defense. Let's take a look at Pheromosa per se. At the moment it runs Lucarionite mainly, because that's its best option; however, with access to Mawilite, its power skyrockets.
Just a few, not so relevant calcs, to prove power rather than showcase how it performs against various threats.
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 322-379 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 415-490 (108.9 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 415-489 (99 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
This is only considering one user of the stone, while more powerful slower Pokémon can take advantage of the bulk increase and be quite effective in removing threats.
Alternatively, for slow attackers that don't have the necessary bulk to survive hits even after the increase, Beedrillite may be a more appealing option. You rid of the marvellous ability in Huge Power for a fine ability in Adaptability, hence losing some attacking power, but easily making up for it with the large increase of Speed and a still massive attacking stat. The Attack increase is already stronger than any previously existing Mega Stones, compared to Lucarionite's +35 and Adaptability, this Mega Stone is too powerful for the metagame. Consider how potent Lucarionite currently is on physical attackers, then double its stat increases. This is basically that. This isn't as overtly broken as the first stone, but it is still easily banworthy.
If you want these back, you better wait for Game Freak to release a Fur Coat stone :P It's unfortunate that the two stones released first are two of the three that we plan to ban on release (the other being Medichamite), but it should mean that later on the metagame won't lose activity, due to the constant addition of other stones.
Tagging The Immortal to ensure Mawilite and Beedrillite are banned from non-native users when they're added.
Also, we agreed on the next suspect test, which will be Dragonite
Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Can the post I typed above, regarding the playability of the metagames, have any discussion? I feel like it will help to grow the metagame, if we allow all allowed Mega Stones (nothing banned like beedrillite), rather than just the ninetendo released ones.It should be worth mentioning that the council have decided Mawilite and Beedrillite should be banned from non-native users immediately as they release. This decision was made a month ago, following the announcement of the mega stone releases, as we have all agreed these Mega Stones will only aid towards the over-centralisation of offense, giving it all the utility it needs to make the playstyle extremely potent, and not letting defensive teams compete. I'll break each down into their own arguments.
*Technically, these Mega Stones were already banned when the banlist was carried over to Gen 7; however, for the sake of analysing their current place within the metagame, a conclusion on their status seems more appropriate now.
Mawilite +20 Atk / +40 Def / +40 SpD | Huge Power
Evidently, the stat increase present here isn't what makes it banworthy, it's an inferior Sablenite if solely considering that. Huge Power simply makes Mawilite overpowered in the selection of offensive stones, giving offensive presences over twice the amount of physical power, while aiding their longevity with the addition of 40 base points to each defense. Let's take a look at Pheromosa per se. At the moment it runs Lucarionite mainly, because that's its best option; however, with access to Mawilite, its power skyrockets.
Just a few, not so relevant calcs, to prove power rather than showcase how it performs against various threats.
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 322-379 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 415-490 (108.9 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 415-489 (99 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
This is only considering one user of the stone, while more powerful slower Pokémon can take advantage of the bulk increase and be quite effective in removing threats.
Beedrillite +60 Atk / -30 SpA / +70 Spe | Adaptability
Alternatively, for slow attackers that don't have the necessary bulk to survive hits even after the increase, Beedrillite may be a more appealing option. You rid of the marvellous ability in Huge Power for a fine ability in Adaptability, hence losing some attacking power, but easily making up for it with the large increase of Speed and a still massive attacking stat. The Attack increase is already stronger than any previously existing Mega Stones, compared to Lucarionite's +35 and Adaptability, this Mega Stone is too powerful for the metagame. Consider how potent Lucarionite currently is on physical attackers, then double its stat increases. This is basically that. This isn't as overtly broken as the first stone, but it is still easily banworthy.
If you want these back, you better wait for Game Freak to release a Fur Coat stone :P It's unfortunate that the two stones released first are two of the three that we plan to ban on release (the other being Medichamite), but it should mean that later on the metagame won't lose activity, due to the constant addition of other stones.
Tagging The Immortal to ensure Mawilite and Beedrillite are banned from non-native users when they're added.
Also, we agreed on the next suspect test, which will be Dragonite. This should be coming up shortly.
For reference:
This has been discussed numerous times throughout the entirety of the thread. As much as I would love all mega stones to be available to us, the OM leaders have decided that this uniform approach of not allowing anything unreleased in metagames, unless the metagame's idea specifies it does, is the correct approach to take. Do I agree with it, not necessarily, but there's likely no chance that this will change in the near future.
So to answer your question, yes. Your post's content has already seen plenty of discussion throughout the thread, prior to your post.