M&M Mix and Mega

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

hello everyone, I'm a new mnm player and I built this team and had a 100% win rate laddering and so I thought I would share it with everyone. So without further ado lets get right into the team.

★grains (Regigigas) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch


So I was looking for broken mons and found this one so I decided to use it.

of (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge


the team was missing a pdon so I added a pdon because you simply can't have a team without pdon where it is allowed.

salt: (Kyurem-Black) @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Return
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Hyper Voice


was looking for another broken mon and found this so in it went.

white (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Absolite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

I had problems with stall so I found a nice stalbreaker for the team!

lives (Genesect) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Techno Blast


genesect reminded me of the traumatic times I had when I was swept by mega ray in BH so I couldn't resist adding it in.

matter (Tapu Fini) @ Sablenite
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt


had to pick between losing to weavile or genesect so I chose genesect because I already got swept by mega ray many times and a few more doesn't really matter but I have never been swept by a refrigerate user so I like to keep my records clean.


And there you have it, I do think this is a pretty solid team but if anyone has suggestions then please feel free to recommend them.

team import

grains (Regigigas) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch


of (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge


salt: (Kyurem-Black) @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Return
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Hyper Voice


white (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Absolite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast


lives (Genesect) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Techno Blast


matter (Tapu Fini) @ Sablenite
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Defog
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt

Thanks for reading!

special thanks to MAMP for this very inspiring quote
%Mamp: ★Grains of Salt: white lives matter

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511645395
Glad my fellow om player get to experience the wonders of getting swept by ray outside of BH

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511662856
This guy had the right ideas when he had 2/6 mons from my team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511659947
he forgot to put a pdon into his team so the outcome was very much expected.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511651883
half my team was walled by toxapex but luckily trap god gengar came in and saved the day

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511544239
this guy also had 2/6 of my team but thankfully his regi was slow

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511646746
he knew he couldn't break the fast support arceus as soon as he calculatedly sacced his clef turn one

the next bit is a bit serious if you are actually considering using the team and concerning the post itself

edit: I made improvements for the team, thank you for all the kind feedback! first I replaced mega gengar with hoopa as it also does gengar's job very well while also not being dead weight against offense. second of all I replaced waterceus with tapu fini to provide a pheromosa check. the lack of recovery does bother me however and I am considering replacing it with mantine.

please do not take this mini-rmt too seriously, I know most of the things here will most likely be banned within the next few months but I just wanted to make a post about some of the broken things in the meta and decided this could be a fun idea doing it. I know this doesn't apply to most people but there are those that seriously thought I don't think stuff like kyurem-b and regigigas isn't broken in the meta.

all in all I thoroughly enjoyed making and testing this team with VoltDarkrai, he gave me great ideas and was the true person who inspired me to make this post and the team.

also here is the art if you want it for some reason http://imgur.com/a/6LOIh

 

[Racool]

hello everyone, I'm a new mnm player and I built this team and had a 100% win rate laddering and so I thought I would share it with everyone. So without further ado lets get right into the team.

★grains (Regigigas) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch


So I was looking for broken mons and found this one so I decided to use it.

of (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge


the team was missing a pdon so I added a pdon because you simply can't have a team without pdon where it is allowed.

salt: (Kyurem-Black) @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Return
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Hyper Voice


was looking for another broken mon and found this so in it went.

white (Gengar) @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Substitute
- Disable


I discovered you can have mega gengar without any penalty and I love to fuck over stall so here it is!

lives (Genesect) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Techno Blast


genesect is a very good mon, it reminded me of the traumatic times I had when I was swept by mega ray in BH so I couldn't resist adding it in.

matter (Arceus-Water) @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Defog
- Recover
- Ice Beam


had to pick between losing to weavile or genesect so I chose genesect because I already got swept by mega ray many times and a few more doesn't really matter but I have never been swept by a refrigerate user so I like to keep my records clean


And there you have it, I do think this is a pretty solid team but if anyone has suggestions then please feel free to recommend them.

team import

grains (Regigigas) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch


of (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge


salt: (Kyurem-Black) @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Return
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Hyper Voice


white (Gengar) @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Substitute
- Disable


lives (Genesect) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Techno Blast


matter (Arceus-Water) @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Defog
- Recover
- Ice Beam

Thanks for reading!

special thanks to Mamp for this very inspiring quote
%Mamp: ★Grains of Salt: white lives matter

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511645395
Glad my fellow om player get to experience the wonders of getting swept by ray outside of BH

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511662856
This guy had the right ideas when he had 2/6 mons from my team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511659947
he forgot to put a pdon into his team so the outcome was very much expected.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511651883
half my team was walled by toxapex but luckily trap god gengar came in and saved the day

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511544239
this guy also had 2/6 of my team but thankfully his regi was slow

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511646746
he knew he couldn't break the fast support arceus as soon as he calculatedly sacced his clef turn one

It seems like a quite solid offensive balance, and a record of 14-1 isnt bad at all. However, a team running lucarionite pher, and glalitite weavile (who doesnt run glalitite on weavile lol) will cause you some serious issues. I know gene will revenge kill pher, but aside from that, you are lacking a viable switchin to pher. I know gengar can switchin, but if your opponent is competent, he/she will u-turn on pher if gengar is still alive, and then go into like weavile, taking out gengar, and thus leaving your team very weak to pher indeed. I understand that no team can have answers to every threat in the game, but that being said, pher and weavile are probably 2 of the most used mons in the tier. Venausarite zapdos is probably the best pher wall in the game, so maybe use that instead of like gengar. Tbh gengar is kinda wasted on this team as ur team should deal with most stall really well. Overall tho, any team running regi, gene, pdon, and kyub is going to be difficult to beat most of the time.

Also I love your drawings <3 xD

 

[thdhted]

Following up on previous post: Unless you successfully trap Cresselia with Gengar(and cress can hit back hard with Psyshock) it gives your team a lot of trouble, as nothing you have can really muscle their way past it, and it'll spend a lot of time screwing over your heavy hitters.

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

If you are getting swept by pheromosa you can change disable to shadow ball on gengar, also since you have gengar they can't just HJK freely, you can predict a u-turn and kill whatever they go out to.

Also I think Cresselia will be banned before regigigas and co. like last time so don't worry about it!

Overall tho, any team running regi, gene, pdon, and kyub is going to be difficult to beat most of the time.

of course it would be a hard matchup they are using half the team and I only lost to cd with this team so statistically speaking you will only win 50% of the time.

 

[pyuk]

...I'm afraid that's where you're wrong.
The whole of the Mix and Mega council has decided that Regigigas is deserving of a quickban on holding Mega Stones. It will be in effect pretty soon. That does mean that some of the sample teams will be messed up by this change. If you want our reasonings, we can all post them here.

Also, a replay as supporting evidence. There's probably at least 100 just like it, so enjoy your time free of the titan's grasp at long last.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-512573879

Of all the supposed replays to choose from, you pick one where a mediocre player with a good team sweeps an even more mediocre player with a very sub-par team that was clearly unprepared for one of if not the single best Pokémon in the meta? Consider this an formal informal request to see those reasonings, if you will.

 

[Racool]

In my personal opinion, regi is very deserving of that ban. Ive used it frequently myself, and have found it to be incredibly op when played right. With aerodactylite (the most common stone on it by far) it has a spread of 110/190/130/90/130/120 which is quite frankly terrifying.

Going throught the strengths of regigigas, the most important one to me is the fact that it 1v1's most mons in the meta. The main mons which can feasibly 1v1 it are pher, terrakion, mimikyu (if disguise hasnt broken) and dnite (if scale hasnt been broken). However any good team should have a pher switchin (again zapdos is the way to go imo) and as for terrakion, well many teams have a ghost mon like mimikyu to switchin to terrakion. As for mimikyu itself, you can just take out the disguise with like t-punch, and then switch in to a steel type (or any other mimikyu wall on your team such as mag) and take mimikyu out. Furthermore most teams should have a dnite answer (zapdos/rockceus) and if not the process of 1v1ing regigigas would leave dnite very vulnerable to being revenge killed (superpower lowers attack and defense, while outrage traps it, leaving it weak to either weavile or any fairy type) Also for people saying dnite could just dd and espeed regi... well: +1 252+ Atk Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Regigigas: 246-289 (67.9 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Even lucarionite kartana doesnt 1v1 it: 252+ Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Regigigas: 256-302 (70.7 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and that's with absolutely no bulk, while drain punch takes kartana out easily, and suddenly regi is back to about 50% hp. In terms of the threats it does 1v1: kyub, weavile, pdon, genesect, golis, zapdos, blissey, suicune, skarm, tapu bulu, tapu koku, (lucarionite) lele, lucario, lunaala, arceus, entei, arcanine etc. For any wondering, this is like 80% of the A- to A+ mons.

Also, and perhaps more importantly, it destroys most of the sab/venasaurite users. One mon that truly walls it is cress: 252+ Atk Tough Claws Regigigas Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 156-184 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO but thats only if it has no spd investment at all. Suicune dies to tpunch, and cant viably switch in to regigigas cos it cant tank a return very well. blissey... well drain punch. Zapdos... well return is a guaranteed 2KHO. drain punch is a 3KHO on most magearna, and due to a lack of viable recovery aside from pain split, magearna isnt as much of a threat imo.

Now a couple of you might be saying what about most ghost types on the game? Well the answer is to run knock off regigigas. I know this sounds absurd for mix and mega, but trust me it works. Knock off = rip lunaala, and byebye mgengar. Metagross also gets 2KHO's by knock, unless ofc its pinsirite, in which case tpunch takes it out. Same for aegislash for the most part, although i would recommend swapping as kings shield would be obvious if u have revealed knock. That being said tho, ghostceus is probably the best regi answer, cos WoW kinda sucks for regigigas. Also: 252+ Atk Tough Claws Regigigas Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Ghost: 172-204 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO so it doesnt even really need WoW to wall it anyways. Rockceus can also beat regi, although ghostceus is better cos of the fighting and normal immunities of course.

Now after 3 paragraphs of me rambling, onto the point of why regigigas should be banned. Regigigas just has too ridiculous a stat spread to give it a good ability in tough claws, and then hope for a balanced meta. it hits like a truck, there arent many switchins in the game, and its quite speedy as well. Its devastating to both HO and stall, and keep in mind that in order for stall to actually work with regigigas, cress/ghostceus are essential, and if either of them die, or if you simply arent running them... well regi will for the most part sweep.

All I can say now is thanks GOS (and the council ofc) for ridding the meta of regi, and also thank god we never had to see the likes of slaking in mnm.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Made by Ritzehy from the art room!

The council has decided that Regigigas is to much for Mix and Mega to handle. While the metagame has adapted nicely to other threats, like Cresselia, adapting to Regigigas is far more difficult. While it's typing leaves it wanting both offensively and defensively, and it lacks reliable recovery or boosting moves, it's positives outweigh the negatives. Regigigas was the forth most used pokemon in December with 21% usage while also using a wide array of stones such as Metagrossite, Aerdacylite, Pinsirite and Charizardite-X. It's a very unpredictable pokemon without a lot of concrete counters bar Arceus-Ghost. We have spent the last two weeks or so discussion wether or not Regigigas is quick-ban worthy. For something to be quick-banned in Mix and Mega it needs to be unanimous. Initially QT argued for a suspect test, but not only would it take a long time until we could suspect it - but nobody in the council thought it wouldn't be banned. I'll post their reasoning below.
Regigigas is now banned on the Mix and Mega ladder

The Immortal

Quantaum Tesseracts reasoning

When banning something competitive, either via quickban or by suspect, the first general thing to consider is it's affect; ie, is it broken, and is it overcentralizing. It is my opinion that Regigigas fits this on both accounts. Regigigas has not true counters; and answer can be bypassed, and while this isn't unique to it it's easily S-Rank even without taking coverage into account. While it can run coverage, what's important is that it doesn't have to; it's a horrific sweeper and cleaner that is endlessly customizable to become more so. It's most common set, Metagrossite, is difficult to revenge; 140 speed is good, and 110/120/130 bulk is really insane to revenge ko. While 170 attack is good, however, Regigigas can also run a very effective Aerodactylite set to nuke bulky switchins, or a Pinsirite for ghosts, and while it isn't limited to these stones and can run others, it has no need to do so because they do everything it needs. There's very rarely a reason not to run this behemoth on any team, and you have to carry multiple of it's few reliable answers or you tend to lose outright.
However, something can be obviously broken without necessitating a quickban; people can be wrong, and tier councils are as human as everyone else. Thus, quickbans are to be used on only the very obviously broken threats, to the point that sending them through a two week long suspect would be a waste of time, or when there is no realistic way for it to stay in the tier. On this scale, Regigigas qualifies for both. The amount of centralization, use, and required counterplay in order to play with it in the tier is simply too much. It requires very little skill to use, and while it doesn't remove good play it greatly reduces it as a factor. Furthermore, we have a very limited suspect schedule---at current rate, it will be over a month between suspects--so when we have something this clear cut, we should take it and allow the metagame to develop.

Zephyr Dragon Lords reasoning

In my opinion, the first thing to consider with a ban is how much of a black hole it is, and how much it sucks. That is, the relative power of something, and how influential it is on a tier. See, if enough things just don't care about a specific threat (about 15% or so of the available pool, I'd estimate), then it's at least somewhat balanced. This, of course, does not apply to Regigigas.

First of all, let's see those stats. 110/160/110/80/110/100. This, by the way, is at base. Those scream legendary stats. This would be (overly, dammit GF for not making it regenerate over time) balanced by Slow Start. In Mix and Mega, this is now a non-issue. And guess what? This makes Regigigas a monster, something that the kids by the vineyard could tell you in five seconds. But while they would not know why beyond the fact that it's a big, hulking monstrosity, I can, and will, tell you more.

Upon mega evolving with Metagrossite, Regigigas obtains Tough Claws, meaning pretty much every relevant move (besides Earthquake) is boosted. And this is off of 170 base Attack. Those Returns, first of all, will hurt. Worse, it's a Normal type. This means two things. 1: Reigigigas only has one weakness. 2: Disgusting amounts of coverage. Don't believe me on that last one? Let's go though counters.
Pheromosa? While it can KO it when in, it's never going to be able to switch in safely. Ever. Arceus-Ghost? Hello, Knock Off, coverage made just for you. Skarmory? Power-Up Punch followed by a Thunder Punch deals with it. Mimikyu..? While most people are morons and just click Return while it switches in, if it clicks a coverage move and then Iron Head, Mimikyu is lonely somewhere else... on the ground.

This story continues for all of its counters. While this does mean Regigigas has a bad 4 Moveslot Syndrome, it doesn't even matter. The fact that Regigigas can do all of this, and that it has nearly zero true counters means it is not able to exist in Mix and Mega peacefully while being able to Mega Evolve. And that for the other very few remaining checks, it just needs to run another stone to blow them away. Also, that bulk means it is not likely to be cleanly finished off in one hit. In most games, Regigigas will be taking at least two opponents down with it. It is that bulky, and it's pretty consistent at performing such feats, if not more. For its ability to destroy the competition, even what is said to be a counter, and just plain be a menace to... EVERYTHING, I think Regigigas can safely be assumed broken, and thus be quickbanned.

InfernapeTropius1s reasoning

• Is Regigigas broken?

Yes very much so and extremely a lot. Its Metagrossite/Aerodactylite sets (counted together as they do basically the same thing just power vs speed) have one counter and that is Arceus-Ghost, everything else can't take two hits. Oh wait I forgot it can use Pinsirite and that 2HKOs Ghostceus gg. It hits insanely hard, has endless coverage (Normal or Flying depending on Metagrossite/Aerodactylite or Pinsirite respectively, Rock, Fire, Ice, Electric, Ground, Steel, Fighting), has PuP, can even use Sub (although nobody does fsr) and hits 140 speed, which ties or outspeeds like 90% of the meta. It has fantastic bulk with only one weakness which allows it to take a hit from just about anything that isn't a super effective STAB and/or a boosted hit and can than KO back. It has unparalleled speed, bulk, and power supported by a wonderful moveset, great ability no matter which stone it uses, lack of weaknesses, and ability to bypass its counters while still being a more than viable offensive threat makes it way too good for the metagame.

• What makes Regigigas quick-ban worthy?

Its combination of being both broken, as mentioned above, and overcentralizing, as I will mention below. It is obvious to anyone who plays Mix and Mega that this monster dominates the tier. I flat out haven't met anyone who disagrees that it is broken, and I've talked to just about every relevant Mix and Mega player and many other ladder players.

• Does Regigigas make the metagame unhealthy? Why? What makes it different from other offensive threats?

Obviously. It is very overcentralizing, essentially mandating a reasonably bulky Ghost-type and/or a Fighting-type with more than 140 speed. Other teams will simply get run over by its unpredictable coverage. Now to address the first thing I said in this paragraph: you need a reasonably bulky Ghost-type. Again, these simply lose to the Pinsirite set, and apart from Ghostceus all other defensive Ghost-types are weak to its coverage (Giratina, Gourgeist, Dhelmise, Aegislash, Jellicent). As for the fast Fighting-type, this requires you to sacrifice something to get this mon in, and if they have a check to your Fighting-type (which isn't exactly hard as the only two viable Fighting-types that outspeed are Metagrossite Terrakion and Pheromosa, two things a good team should already beat) then this is obviously an unhealthy situation. What sets it apart? I'll repeat myself: It has unparalleled speed, bulk, and power supported by a wonderful moveset, great ability no matter which stone it uses, lack of weaknesses, and ability to bypass its counters while still being a more than viable offensive threat.

NVs reasoning

• 
  
  
  • Is Regigigas broken?

On the whole, yes. Regigigas has warranted a skyrocket in the usage of Ghost-types and Ghostceus in general (despite it being good on its own anyways). While this isn't necessarily a bad thing since most threats are bound to skyrocket the usage of certain things to keep them in check, Regigigas gets by with a fantastic stat spread of 110/170/130/100/130/140 with Metagrossite or 110/190/130/100/130/120 with Aerodactylite further powered by Tough Claws boosting its STAB and main coverage moves. Furthermore, it can use Pinsirite, with a stat spread of 110/190/130/100/130/120, to surprise said Ghost-types that tend to check it and allow it to continue wrecking havoc.

• 
  
  
  • What makes Regigigas quick ban worthy?

For this, I feel the writing mentioned in the threatlist says it all, so I will quote the whole thing then explain my side.

While its role is always clear from team preview, its precise set can be the source of many guessing games. While all three sets do share some answers, the reliability of each widely varies between sets, and the best play to make is never the same. Metagrossite is a threatening late game cleaner, Aerodactylite a wallbreaker, and Pinsirite a Ghost type lure and lesser wallbreaker. Typically, Metagrossite sets use Return, Drain Punch, Earthquake, and Ice Punch; Aerodactylite sets use Return, Knock Off, Drain Punch, and Thunder Punch; Pinsirite use Return, Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Drain Punch. Be on the lookout for Substitute, Power up Punch, Facade, and swapped sets as well.​

Basically, my thoughts are echoed here. The fact that it is a guessing game any time you see Gigas is just ridiculous and you can be 6-0'd if they surprise your would-be check. While this doesn't, or rather didn't, warrant a quickban, I do believe it does now since the meta has developed and it has warped itself around this behemoth that needs to go to make for a healthier and more creative / fun meta.

• 
  
  
  • Does Regigigas make the metagame unhealthy? Why? What makes it different from other offensive threats?

As I stated at the end of the previous point, it promotes an unhealthy rather than making one. What I mean is that it forces us to run a Ghost-type such as Ghostceus to consistently check it, despite Ghostceus being good on its own, because we need to have some answer to Gigas. It doesn't really make the meta unhealthy since the mons that are used to check it, offensively or otherwise, are good in their own rights, but with Gigas forcing us to run these Pokemon this promotes a warped and unhealthy metagame. What makes it different from other offensive threats such as Genesect or PDon is because there are consistent checks to those mons despite them having a variety of sets to use.

Thank you and have a nice day!

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

If you're wondering why those posts of mine vanished... I goofed. But that's okay, since the reasoning got through either way.
To make it up to you all, I have a set showcase here... Meet Red Orb Moltres.

Moltres @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 188 SpA / 72 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun

This is the set I used, and it works pretty good. Speed EVs are to creep... something. Probably other base 100s and Primals. Feel free to shift them into HP if you want. While Flamethrower is more reliable, Fire Blast nabs some knockouts that aren't possible otherwise, namely on a Zapdos that switches in. Solar Beam is good coverage for Red Orb mons, Will-O-Wisp is to punish Golsiopod and other overzealous physical sweepers, and Morning Sun is great healing in the Sun.

The main niche Moltres has over its other blazing cousins is that it has sheer power, along with solid recovery. Anything that is not at least bulky or is a resist is just flat out OHKOed by Flamethrower, much less Fire Blast. Solar Beam also nearly lands the OHKO on Primal Kyogre, and with about 18% gone, it does the job. The bulk leaves a bit to be desired, but it does the job in most cases.

While I am not quite ready to share the team just yet, here are some replays involving Moltres...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511941893
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-511966290 (Not a terribly skilled opponent, but a great demonstration of Moltres in general)

Oh, and Tapu Bulu is great, too.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-512035081

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Hey,

I'm resigning as leader and leaving the OM community. Knowing the potential of your metagame and knowing that it's unreleased makes the metagame really, really boring. Sorry I couldn't muster up the motivation that I once had, the OMs leader will find a suitable leader and you guys will do it fine. There are better things to be doing than get yelled at on a pokemon simulator about issues you can't fix.

Thanks for the laughs,
Grains of Salt

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Hey,

I'm resigning as leader and leaving the OM community. Knowing the potential of your metagame and knowing that it's unreleased makes the metagame really, really boring. Sorry I couldn't muster up the motivation that I once had, the OMs leader will find a suitable leader and you guys will do it fine. There are better things to be doing than get yelled at on a pokemon simulator about issues you can't fix.

Thanks for the laughs,
Grains of Salt

...Well, this came out of nowhere. where's Ghoul King when you need him
...I have no idea how this is going to affect suspects or policy here. I just know, and hope, that we'll have good leadership, and have a complete version of this in Gen 7. Hopefully that resolution will be peaceful, rather than filled with strife.

Best of luck to you, and to the rest of the council here.

 

[The Immortal]

I want to thank GoS for all his contribution to Mix and Mega.

Mix and Mega has been the most successful non-permanent OM of gen 6. It won OM of the Month three times, had the highest ladder activity of any OMotM, and was the most active topic in the forum after Balanced Hackmons. Suffice to say that MnM is not short of contributors. But now, MnM needs a leader. A leader that can set a direction and work with the community to guide MnM into the future. The person that will take over as new Mix and Mega leader is... Chloe! Chloe has the maturity, judgement and drive required to steady this ship and lead it to further success. Let's make MnM great again!

 

[Chloe]

I'd like to thank GoS for leading this metagame for the previous six months, especially all the effort he has put it. Although many of us may have disagreed with him on fundamental decisions about the metagame, he did still attempt to satisfy the large responsibility that was put onto him and I'd like to thank him for that.

As we stand now the metagame is arguably in a quite difficult state. Many powerful threats keep it overcentralised; while we lack the majority of mega stones due to being unreleased. The objective here is to find a suitable balanced metagame with what we have available to us. I would also agree that without the release of all these mega stones, creativity will always be lacking to some extent; however, for now this just isn't possible. That's not to say I won't try to get them though :)

I will be forming a new council, currently consisting of nv, Quantum Tesseract, IT11 and myself. My apologies to any users that were removed in this process, my primary intention was to have knowledgeable members of the Mix and Mega community, that understand the issues present while also maintaining a sound understanding of what the metagame is currently like. It's not to say that any other member could not fulfil that role; however, these three display it exceptionally and have made their knowledge and prowess extremely evident. We may be looking for a fifth member soon.

Another thing I promise will be different is the speed at which we tackle issues within the metagame. Kyurem-Black is something I'll be trying to address within the first few days, as I'm aware of the current problems it poses on the metagame. Whether this goes to a quickban or an immediate suspect test, I promise we will address this issue rather swiftly.

While some of you may not have the upmost faith in me and the future of the metagame, I promise that the aforementioned council members and I will make this metagame the diverse and entertaining metagame it deserves to be.

Thanks for giving me this opportunity and I promise to not let you down.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Anyway, let's get some substantive discussion restarted! I was curious, do you guys think there is a niche for Z-moves in the current Mix and Mega metagame? I don't mean the obvious/standard ones, like Z-Geomancy Xerneas or Z-crystals on Arceus formes, but more niche ones that act as lures. For example, could the following Tapu Koko set have a niche?

Tapu Koko @ Tapunium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt / Dazzling Gleam

This set is designed to use Guardian of Alola to neuter common Tapu Koko answers such as Primal Groudon. It will do 75% with Guardian of Alola, and then Grass Knot is able to finish it off after rocks (or leave it at less than 5% if no rocks) if it's fully specially defensive, and it obviously does more (such as guaranteeing the KO on physically defensive PDon) if not max SpD. Yes I did take into account that GoA does less than 75% if it takes rocks damage first, but taking rocks followed by GoA leaves PDon at less than 20 and thus is KOd by GKnot no matter what. This seems like a decent lure for a fantastic Pokemon in the current metagame. Tapu Koko also has 130 speed which is decent enough in Mix and Mega so it isn't entirely dead weight in other matchups, but the real question is, is PDon common enough to warrant such a lure?

What Z-moves have you guys been using?

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

That Tapu Koko should be Timid... I personally prefer to just Toxic Primal Groudon, though a simple Nature's Madness from Absolite Tapu Koko is enough to really punish Primal Groudon for switching in. It's a great set, though. It breaks down some of Tapu Koko's common counters... at the price to Tapu Koko being really scary its first time out.

As for other Z-moves... I suppose Porygon-Z with Z-Conversion can still work, given a good opportunity (against a tank, for example). I can't think of too many others that will be really potent in the current meta. Maybe Genesis Supernova, but Mega Mew is just SO GOOD... I'll talk about some other Pokémon you all might have overlooked after I finish my laddering run.

 

[Racool]

I must say I agree with ZDL in the fact that I just don't see much competitive viability to any z-moves aside from the use on ubers mons, that tapu set, or perhaps porygon with z-conversion. This is due to the simple fact that any non-uber mon is quite simply much better with a mega stone than a z-crystal.

Attacking z-crystals are just a waste as a 1PP super powerful move isn't a good trade-off for some great stat boosts and a potentially great ability change. This leaves just status z-moves, which again for the most part are simply a waste of a mega-stone spot. The only status moves that are actually impactful (most others are simply quite similar to regular status moves) are the all-stat boosts, and like splash and belly drum (there may be a few more, but they will probably be quite similar). Looking purely at z-splash, the most distince issue is the fact that not many viable mons learn splash. Ignoring ubers, the list is limited to lopunny, and gyarados. Gyar lacks speed to be a sweeping threat with z-splash, and is therefore just better off with a mega-stone and maybe run dd. Lopunny... well if im going to be honest, its just bad. Its mega form was good, but its regular stats just aren't that great, nor is its ability. (actually for the record, does klutz prevent the use of Zcrystals lmao?) It gets outsped by a lot in the tier due to first turn speed boosts. This combined with the priority spam makes running something like z-splash a bad idea. Z-belly drum suffers from similar issues. Mons like kommo-o and chestnaught just lose to an aerilate filled tier, and once again, the majority of mons are just so slow, and are especially weak in one defense, making them easily revenge killed. Z-Belly drum snorlax could be fun, but with its quite poor defense, and miserable speed, i would think that a curse set with like sablenite is the best option.

Now finally on to +1 all stat z-moves. Once again (seriously repeating theme) the mons who gain access to these moves tent to be for the most part, quite bad. The only mon which comes to mind as a potential threat is porygon-Z (especially if it keeps its normal typing after the conversion), the rest are easily walled by things like cress (for example z-celebrate espeon). Another potential cool set is Z-celebrate Sylveon. It has a great ability, and with the ability to boost all its stats it could be quite dangerous. Sadly, lucarionite/metagrossite kartana just outspeeds even at +1, while the most common mon in Pdon walls it pretty goddam well. Overall, there just aren't many good mons to use +1 z-moves on in this tier, as the mons who can learn these moves arent amazing, and the meta has a lot of counters/revenge killers.

My verdict: Z-crystals are for the most part only viable on Ubers, such as maybe Z-splash on solgaleo, or a z-crystal on arceus. As far as I can see, porygon, and maybe the Koku set (need to test it) are the only other viable Z-crystal sets in MnM. This is not to say they should never be used, as they could make for a great meme, but in terms of competitive play, they just dont seem all that useful on non-ubers, as you cant have both a z-crystal and a mega stone.

 

[scpinion]

https://scpinion.github.io/mix-and-mega-damage-calc/

It doesn't have mnm-specific sets yet, but adding mega stones changes stats. More updates when I get home later tonight. Lemme know if you find a bug.

Also, only works for the released stones atm. Enjoy!

 

[david0895]

https://scpinion.github.io/mix-and-mega-damage-calc/

It doesn't have mnm-specific sets yet, but adding mega stones changes stats. More updates when I get home later tonight. Lemme know if you find a bug.

Also, only works for the released stones atm. Enjoy!

Will be added the unreleased stones?

 

[scpinion]

Will be added the unreleased stones?

Yes, I just prioritized the released stuff because I'm a programing noob and decided to manually add the mega stone changes.

 

[frogstomperful]

I've wondered if it is possible to get Power Construct working in any of these OM's.

It seems like it would be an interesting addition especially here in Mix-and-Mega. Thoughts on that?

EDIT: I guess this wasn't clear. Is it possible to get Power Construct working on mons other than Zygarde? The Power Construct stats would be +108 HP and +10 SpA. Not sure why that SpA was added to Zygarde for the Complete form, but since it was ...

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I've wondered if it is possible to get Power Construct working in any of these OM's.

It seems like it would be an interesting addition especially here in Mix-and-Mega. Thoughts on that?

Power Construct Zygarde works and is good in Mix and Mega. Zygarde can't hold a mega stone if it has Power Construct pre-Mega, but the Rest/Sleep Talk/Coil/Thousand Arrows or Dragon Tail set is still very good in the current meta, taking advantage of Zyg-C's bulk to potentially sweep. It also makes Zygarde very threatening at team preview as the Pinsirite and Power Construct sets have different counters.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I've wondered if it is possible to get Power Construct working in any of these OM's.

It seems like it would be an interesting addition especially here in Mix-and-Mega. Thoughts on that?

EDIT: I guess this wasn't clear. Is it possible to get Power Construct working on mons other than Zygarde? The Power Construct stats would be +108 HP and +10 SpA. Not sure why that SpA was added to Zygarde for the Complete form, but since it was ...

No because Power Construct is just an ability and not aligned with a Mega Stone/Primal Orb so that would go against the premise of the meta. Also I'm pretty sure Power Construct is one of those hardcoded abilities like Stance Change for Aegislash.

 

[Chloe]

Hello, the Mix and Mega council has decided to ban Kyurem-Black from holding Mega Stones. After much discussion amongst the council and the community, the council decided the appropriate action was to quick-ban Kyurem-Black from holding Mega Stones.

Kyurem-Black is not like any other Pokémon within the metagame. It boasts an enormous 210 Attack when using Glalitite, and when considering that in conjunction with its magnificent ability Refrigerate, it is clear to see that this Pokémon has no place in Mix and Mega. Its offensive capability solely by running Return or Frustration in tandem with Fusion Bolt, allows Kyurem-Black to possess the infamous Electric + Ice coverage known as "BoltBeam", which is known for only having three resists. Only one is borderline relevant in Mix and Mega, Red Orb Raikou; however, this can easily be defeated with the use of Earth Power. This isn't to say Kyurem-Black doesn't have checks or counters. Bulky Steel-types such as Blue Orb Scizor or Solgaleo can counter Kyurem-Black, but are otherwise usually useless and don't hold weight after a few switch-ins to a 122 BP, STAB, 570 Attack stat Return or Frustration.

While it is known to run only one Mega Stone, due to being absolutely superior - Glalitite, the potential that this alone allows is tremendous. The Ice-type is known to be one of the best offensive typings, the Attack boost provided is substantial and the Speed boost allows Kyurem-Black to reach a satiating speed tier. Due to having a base 115 Speed stat, Kyurem-Black can easily outspeed max speed base 90s, such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh, while not even sacrificing any Attack. It can also outspeed the majority of the "stone-less" Pokémon present within the metagame, as well as many common others. Kyurem-Black's offensive capability also allows it to be an extremely potent stallbreaker, breaking past Sablenite Cresselia and Sablenite Blissey without much effort at all. It can do this with the use of one of its recognised sets, utilising its access to Roost and Substitute and sacrificing Speed to run a bulkier spread (solely HP investment) to prevent Blissey's Seismic Toss from breaking through. It doesn't require this set to break these two defensive threats, however. These Pokémon have no chance of walling Kyurem-Black, and hence, as mentioned earlier, a bulky Steel-type is often required.

The problem that ensues due to Kyurem-Black's inclusion within the metagame, is not solely the threat it poses to defensive threats, but also the centralisation occurring within offensive playstyles. Kyurem-Black's power is unmatched by any other offensive threat. Metagrossite Kartana comes close; however, is definitely more underwhelming due to its typing and the lack of powerful attacks it possesses. Removing Kyurem-Black from the metagame should not make the stall playstyle prevalent, but rather allow stall and balance a chance to function without requiring such a solid Refrigerate check. Weavile and Genesect are still two potent Glalitite users, thus the removal of Kyurem-Black should not limit diversity, and when considering the previous point, most likely will improve the overall pool of viable Pokémon within the metagame.

Additionally, here is IT11's reasoning for the necessity of a quick-ban.

Is it broken?
Imo yes. Even though it only uses one stone it can use multiple moves effectively, such as the SubRoost+2 attacks set, the SubRoost+Hone Claws+Frustration set (that basically just beats stall), and the AoA set ft. Earth Power to bop checks like Red Orb Raikou. It can't be revenge killed by atespeed, and if you let it get a sub it's likely going to nab a KO. It is bulky enough to take a hit from almost anything (it can even be EVd to live Metagrossite Kartana's Smart Strike from full which is a 70 BP Tough Claws boosted STAB off of 191 attack) and then just Roosts on a bulky mon. It has subs that can't be broken by seismic toss as well. Did I mention it has 210 attack and a 102 BP Refrigerate boosted STAB? Ice is easily one of the best offensive typings in the meta, hitting almost everything at least neutrally, and Water-types just fold in the face of Fusion Bolt. Pair it with a Fire type for steels (if you don't run ep) and you're set right there.

Why is it quickban worthy?
It warps the meta into a series of 50/50s, which the Kyub user generally has the advantage of. If your mon can't hit it for 25% then it sets up a sub and goes to work. If it comes in on a slower mon you know the opponent will need, then it gets a free sub as they switch and will almost always get a KO. It has very few checks, and it has ways to bypass them.

Does it make the meta unhealthy?
Yes. A meta that comes down to 50/50s and playing around not letting one mon set up a sub is not healthy at all. I kinda touched on this in other points but basically it forces the game to revolve around it as with sky-high attack and a powerful STAB it just blows holes in the other team.

What makes it different from other offensive threats?
Almost nothing has a powerful Ice STAB (it's limited to Weavile and maybe Mamoswine if you're being generous), good bulk (rules out both those two tbh), and decent speed (it outspeeds Red Orb Raikou and slower, and this also rules out Mamo again). Also, 210 attack is a feat in and of itself, only a select few mons can reach this high of an attack stat, and even fewer can do so with a SpA stat as good as 160 (Hoopa-U is somewhat comparable, but Kyub is faster, bulkier, has a better typing, and can set subs that aren't broken by stoss). Similar to Regigigas, its combination of bulk and power sets it a cut above the rest. The only difference between them is basically Gigas is a lot faster, while Kyub has a better typing but is slow. Kyub can be tweaked to sweep stall or mess up balance, while always doing a number to any playstyle (a well played kyub will almost always find a way to get a couple KOs).

I vote ban, obviously

The Immortal

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Thank you all for dealing with Kyruem-Black; that was the last of the stupidly powerful forces acting upon Mix and Mega that everyone could see...

And as a note, regular Kyruem is still perfectly usable in Mix and Mega, and is quite powerful, yet still balanced. While a bunch of its versatility has vanished with some of the stones being unreleased, a Glalite set is still a potent special attacker.

With that.. let's get a new discussion going. What are your favorite users of underused stones? We have heard about all the Sablenite and Pinsirite users, but what about those Slowbronite and Scizorite users? I am certain that all of these stones are usable, so tell your stories about them..!

 

[Fardin]

Quagsire can be a good Chari X stone user, since it gives quag a nice def and attack boost while also eliminating its grass weakness, and therefor countering Kartana..tho u should rarely evolve with quag since Unaware is just too useful

 

[thdhted]

Actually, has anyone found a good role/stone for Pyukumyuku(or however it's spelled)? It has the ever-useful Unaware Pre-Mega and a solid support movepool despite its lack of attacking moves. Its typing is good enough to justify defensive roles, and has decent enough defenses to make itself useful Pre-Mega and Post-Mega.