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Murder and wrongful imprisonment at the FBI
- Thread starter obi
- Start date
The information gained from the mafia informers who were being protected may well have lead to the saving of many lives. I'm not saying this was the best way to do it, but if you take the objective view that the ends can justify the means then this is a prime example of that in action. A moral dilemma if ever I saw one.
And what are you talking about, the 'two surviving men'?
And what are you talking about, the 'two surviving men'?
I would rather the mafia be free than the government increase in power and autocracy. It's a lot easier to stop a corrupt criminal syndicate than a corrupt government. If you're taking the long-term view, you should take into account that this sort of thing sets a precedent for increasing government powers.
Four men were imprisoned. Two of them died in prison.
Yeah, the CIA and the NSA scare me a lot more than the FBI.
Could you imagine the government implementing martial law on a city to eliminate crime? If the government could send the military into New York City with orders to shoot on sight, there would be no crime.
Now could you imagine any criminal organization invading the Pentagon, the White House, and taking over Congress? The criminal group would get mowed down.
Now could you imagine any criminal organization invading the Pentagon, the White House, and taking over Congress? The criminal group would get mowed down.
Could not have said it better myself. This makes me feel sick in my stomach.
“I always thought J. Edgar Hoover walked on water when I was a kid,” he tells Wallace. “But when I found out Mr. Salvati had been put in prison for a crime he didn’t commit and they knew it - the FBI for 32 years - and there was no remorse because of it, I said, ‘Something has to be done.’ ”
To be honest, I laughed.
To be honest, I laughed.
He would be quoting a much earlier source, Increase Mather at the end of the Salem Witch Trials: "It were better that Ten Suspected Witches should escape, than that one Innocent Person should be Condemned." Which is the ideal that our justice system is supposed to be founded on.Arseus said:
Just fucking nice, two guys get stuck in jail for 32 years for nothing, and the FBI, NSA, and all other groups are stupid, and it kinda hits the nail on the head as to how stupid humanity as a whole is.
I agree with Surgo. We had supposedly advanced in the 500 years since the witchunts in Salem, but just like then, innocent people must die for the sole benefit of a select few, even though in the grand scheme of things it is wrong and unjust. Shows us how fucked up some people are.
Murder and Corruption in the Government
In 1968, four men were convicted of the murder of Teddy Deegan and sentenced to death by electrocution. The FBI knew all four of them were innocent of all wrong-doing, and in fact, knew exactly who was guilty. Rather than convicting the guilty parties, the FBI coached the murderers on how to testify against the four innocent men. Each of these men were married and had children, and the FBI knew each of them were innocent. The FBI, the very organization dedicated to protecting Americans from organized crime, turned out to be one of the worst criminal syndicates in America, and began a string of human rights abuses greater than any public scandal in American history.
The circumstances surrounding this event sound more like the backdrop of a dystopian novel of fiction than reality, but for Joseph Salvati, Peter Limone, Henry Tameleo, and Louis Greco, it was all too real. The corruption began with illegal wiretaps, backroom deals, and public pressure on the FBI to fight organized crime. Barboza was on trial for several other murders, among other felonies, but the FBI was willing to cut a deal: If Barboza becomes an FBI informant, he gets immunity for all his crimes. Barboza indicted the four innocent men. Shortly before he was 'hit' by some of his rivals, Barboza recanted his testimony and confessed to being complicit in the murder of Deegan, and admitted that the four men had nothing to do with it. Despite the FBI knowing who actually committed the murder (Barboza was one of them), Salvati, Limone, Tameleo, and Greco were not spared. Paul Rico, one of the two FBI agents leading the case, said of Greco's death sentence that, "it was funny", because the FBI knew Greco was not in Boston, but rather, in Miami when Deegan was murdered.
The only evidence against them was the testimony of Joseph "The Animal" Barboza, one of the actual murderers, but because the FBI vouched for him, that was all that was needed to sentence three of the four men to the death penalty, with Joseph Salvati getting life with no chance for parole. Although their sentences were 'reduced' to match Salvati's life in prison with no chance for parole in 1974, when Massachusetts abolished the death penalty, two of the men died in prison, making their sentence remain the death penalty in all but name.
This was not just an isolated incident, limited to the two agents who coached Barboza, but rather, an indication of the corruption throughout not just the FBI, but the executive branches of state and federal governments. Memos released due to a subpoena on the FBI revealed that this went straight to the top. J. Edgar Hoover, the director of the FBI, was informed of the proceedings of the case daily, and knew of the men's innocence. Salvati's lawyer, Victor Garo had enough evidence of wrong-doing that he said of J. Edgar Hoover that "if he was alive today, I would be requesting that he be indicted as a conspirator to murder Joe Salvati." When Salvati attempted to get a retrial, his request was denied by the governor, Michael Dukakis. His chief advisor on this issue? Paul Rico, one of the two FBI agents responsible for the illegal and immoral arrest of Salvati. When Salvati attempted to do the same thing 10 years later, the next governor also denied the request under extreme pressure by the FBI. It wasn't until Governor Weld gave him a commutation that he finally got out on parole.
When the Senate launched an investigation into corruption at the FBI (due to this case and other similar cases), then-Attorney General John Ashcroft refused to provide documents citing national security concerns. President Bush then invoked executive privilege to completely block the Senate's subpoena, stating that it "would be contrary to the national interest" to reveal this information. This blatant abuse of executive power is precisely the reason for the separation of powers, but a spineless Senate allowed illegal wiretaps, perjury, and murder to go unpunished.
It wasn't until recently that there was any sort of reparations for this, when a federal judge ordered 101.7 million dollars in damages. In her ruling, Judge Nancy Gertner justified the amount and dismissed claims that this was merely a case of criminal negligence at worst by saying, "This is not the situation of a passerby of a fire who doesn't report it. The defendant started the fire and allowed it to burn." Gertner added, "The FBI's misconduct was the sole cause of the conviction."
Perhaps the most saddening thing in all of this, aside from the four families ruined, is the media's response, or rather, lack thereof. Lindsay Lohan's loft gets more coverage than this public violation of human rights. During the Watergate scandal, people were congratulating the press on their brave journalism, but four years earlier, the loss of every Constitutionally protected right of four innocent men went unreported. When hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, people said, "The media's back!" in reference to the reporting that went on during Watergate. A few months later, there was virtually no reporting done anywhere on the successful 101.7 million dollar lawsuit brought against the FBI. The media are not "back"; they just had one good day. Katrina indicated unpreparedness and mismanagement; the FBI's actions indicate deep corruption. Watergate, at least, had an end; with the FBI, it seems that the more people dig, the more corruption is uncovered. Despite this, no major news outlet seems to want to do any of the work, or even report on the work that's already been done by Salvati's lawyer.
The most frightening aspect of all this is that of the three major federal law-enforcement agencies: the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA, the FBI is the least prone to such secrecy and corruption. The CIA and the NSA have massive databases of the American populace. More of what both organizations do is less likely to be revealed, even with a subpoena, on grounds of "national security". It is unlikely that the FBI is any more corrupt than either the CIA or the NSA; if anything, the reverse is true. The FBI is just more likely to get caught. When the elected government officials of the highest offices of the United States are willing to defend such actions when the perpetrators are no longer in the government and when the corruption is this is, now that the memos have finally been released, it is not that much of a stretch to assume that such protections also occur for current corruption to prevent people from even knowing about it.
The role of government is to serve and protect its people, but when its powers go unchecked, it ends up being the entity against which its citizens need protection. Some say that this is a necessary evil to eliminate organized crime. In the words of the FBI from one of the memos, these men are "acceptable collateral damage". The ends never justify the means when the means never end and the ends are rather mean. Nobody is above the law, especially not the FBI. People need to stop accepting government corruption as an unavoidable part of government and get involved. When America gives tacit approval to the government to ignore the laws it is sworn to protect, then nothing separates the criminals from the enforcers.
Sources:
Hardball transcript (after the Bin Laden stuff)
FBI Documents
The President's reaction
Judge Gertner's ruling
This is the essay I turned in to my English class.
In 1968, four men were convicted of the murder of Teddy Deegan and sentenced to death by electrocution. The FBI knew all four of them were innocent of all wrong-doing, and in fact, knew exactly who was guilty. Rather than convicting the guilty parties, the FBI coached the murderers on how to testify against the four innocent men. Each of these men were married and had children, and the FBI knew each of them were innocent. The FBI, the very organization dedicated to protecting Americans from organized crime, turned out to be one of the worst criminal syndicates in America, and began a string of human rights abuses greater than any public scandal in American history.
The circumstances surrounding this event sound more like the backdrop of a dystopian novel of fiction than reality, but for Joseph Salvati, Peter Limone, Henry Tameleo, and Louis Greco, it was all too real. The corruption began with illegal wiretaps, backroom deals, and public pressure on the FBI to fight organized crime. Barboza was on trial for several other murders, among other felonies, but the FBI was willing to cut a deal: If Barboza becomes an FBI informant, he gets immunity for all his crimes. Barboza indicted the four innocent men. Shortly before he was 'hit' by some of his rivals, Barboza recanted his testimony and confessed to being complicit in the murder of Deegan, and admitted that the four men had nothing to do with it. Despite the FBI knowing who actually committed the murder (Barboza was one of them), Salvati, Limone, Tameleo, and Greco were not spared. Paul Rico, one of the two FBI agents leading the case, said of Greco's death sentence that, "it was funny", because the FBI knew Greco was not in Boston, but rather, in Miami when Deegan was murdered.
The only evidence against them was the testimony of Joseph "The Animal" Barboza, one of the actual murderers, but because the FBI vouched for him, that was all that was needed to sentence three of the four men to the death penalty, with Joseph Salvati getting life with no chance for parole. Although their sentences were 'reduced' to match Salvati's life in prison with no chance for parole in 1974, when Massachusetts abolished the death penalty, two of the men died in prison, making their sentence remain the death penalty in all but name.
This was not just an isolated incident, limited to the two agents who coached Barboza, but rather, an indication of the corruption throughout not just the FBI, but the executive branches of state and federal governments. Memos released due to a subpoena on the FBI revealed that this went straight to the top. J. Edgar Hoover, the director of the FBI, was informed of the proceedings of the case daily, and knew of the men's innocence. Salvati's lawyer, Victor Garo had enough evidence of wrong-doing that he said of J. Edgar Hoover that "if he was alive today, I would be requesting that he be indicted as a conspirator to murder Joe Salvati." When Salvati attempted to get a retrial, his request was denied by the governor, Michael Dukakis. His chief advisor on this issue? Paul Rico, one of the two FBI agents responsible for the illegal and immoral arrest of Salvati. When Salvati attempted to do the same thing 10 years later, the next governor also denied the request under extreme pressure by the FBI. It wasn't until Governor Weld gave him a commutation that he finally got out on parole.
When the Senate launched an investigation into corruption at the FBI (due to this case and other similar cases), then-Attorney General John Ashcroft refused to provide documents citing national security concerns. President Bush then invoked executive privilege to completely block the Senate's subpoena, stating that it "would be contrary to the national interest" to reveal this information. This blatant abuse of executive power is precisely the reason for the separation of powers, but a spineless Senate allowed illegal wiretaps, perjury, and murder to go unpunished.
It wasn't until recently that there was any sort of reparations for this, when a federal judge ordered 101.7 million dollars in damages. In her ruling, Judge Nancy Gertner justified the amount and dismissed claims that this was merely a case of criminal negligence at worst by saying, "This is not the situation of a passerby of a fire who doesn't report it. The defendant started the fire and allowed it to burn." Gertner added, "The FBI's misconduct was the sole cause of the conviction."
Perhaps the most saddening thing in all of this, aside from the four families ruined, is the media's response, or rather, lack thereof. Lindsay Lohan's loft gets more coverage than this public violation of human rights. During the Watergate scandal, people were congratulating the press on their brave journalism, but four years earlier, the loss of every Constitutionally protected right of four innocent men went unreported. When hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, people said, "The media's back!" in reference to the reporting that went on during Watergate. A few months later, there was virtually no reporting done anywhere on the successful 101.7 million dollar lawsuit brought against the FBI. The media are not "back"; they just had one good day. Katrina indicated unpreparedness and mismanagement; the FBI's actions indicate deep corruption. Watergate, at least, had an end; with the FBI, it seems that the more people dig, the more corruption is uncovered. Despite this, no major news outlet seems to want to do any of the work, or even report on the work that's already been done by Salvati's lawyer.
The most frightening aspect of all this is that of the three major federal law-enforcement agencies: the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA, the FBI is the least prone to such secrecy and corruption. The CIA and the NSA have massive databases of the American populace. More of what both organizations do is less likely to be revealed, even with a subpoena, on grounds of "national security". It is unlikely that the FBI is any more corrupt than either the CIA or the NSA; if anything, the reverse is true. The FBI is just more likely to get caught. When the elected government officials of the highest offices of the United States are willing to defend such actions when the perpetrators are no longer in the government and when the corruption is this is, now that the memos have finally been released, it is not that much of a stretch to assume that such protections also occur for current corruption to prevent people from even knowing about it.
The role of government is to serve and protect its people, but when its powers go unchecked, it ends up being the entity against which its citizens need protection. Some say that this is a necessary evil to eliminate organized crime. In the words of the FBI from one of the memos, these men are "acceptable collateral damage". The ends never justify the means when the means never end and the ends are rather mean. Nobody is above the law, especially not the FBI. People need to stop accepting government corruption as an unavoidable part of government and get involved. When America gives tacit approval to the government to ignore the laws it is sworn to protect, then nothing separates the criminals from the enforcers.
Sources:
Hardball transcript (after the Bin Laden stuff)
FBI Documents
The President's reaction
Judge Gertner's ruling
This is the essay I turned in to my English class.
The end was that the lives of four innocent men were ruined. There's absolutely no justification for this, and every single person in the FBI who participated in this and is still alive should be rotting in a jail cell for the next 32 years. The fact that our government as a whole is protecting them and that our media is turning a blind eye is just appalling.
Just an update on this, I got my grade back for the essay, and I got 150/150. My teacher said it was "beautiful", "one of the best essays of the year". Critics rave "I would trade my child for a chance to read this essay again." Well, I made up that last one, but the other two are true!
My teacher said it was "beautiful", "one of the best essays of the year". Critics rave "I would trade my child for a chance to read this essay again." Well, I made up that last one, but the other two are true! 
damn i didnt realise how screwed up our country was untill i read this and whats this crap about the greater good?!i see the FBI's point but that still dosent make it right i agree that all participants should be jailed and see how they like it and i agree with obi the CIA is much more scary