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Nattorei (WIP)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by mtr, Oct 2, 2010.

  1. mtr

    mtr

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    [​IMG]
    Nattorei

    --------------------------

    [Overview]
    [p]Nattorei is one of the more interesting Pokemon to come from the 5th generation. Being the only Grass/Steel type in the game, it brings many unique resistances to a team, allowing it to check Pokemon such as Zekrom and Palkia (without Fire Blast). Furthermore, it possesses excellent 74/131/116 defenses, and learns Spikes and Leech Seed for augmented support capabilities. While it faces serious competition from Skarmory and Forretress for a team slot, Nattorei earns its place over those two thanks to its excellent Special Defense, resistance to Electric- and Water-type attacks, and access to Leech Seed.[/p]

    [SET]
    name: Spiker
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
    move 3: Power Whip
    move 4: Gyro Ball
    item: Leftovers / Shed Shell
    nature: Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef

    Set Comments:

    <p>Nattorei earns its place on Ubers teams with its resistances to common attacks employed by both Palkia, Dialga, and Zekrom, whose coverage moves threaten to run through many Ubers teams. To this end, it possesses superior typing than Skarmory or Forretress, along with a far higher Special Defense.</p>

    <p>Spikes and Leech Seed help Nattorei deal considerable residual damage to its opponents, while Power Whip strikes both Kyogre and Groudon super-effectively. Due to the high base speed of many Ubers, and Nattorei's comparatively pathetic speed stat, Gyro Ball is a good option, being your best move against Mewtwo and Latias, as well as letting you check Giratina-O given that you have Rain.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>The current EV spread is designed for the specially oriented Ubers environment, letting Nattorei take a variety of hits. But if you want more physical defense, you can go with a spread of 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SDef / Impish. This lets you better handle Scizor, Garchomp, and Zekrom, while maintaining that Giratina-O's Hidden Power Fire is a 4HKO in the Rain.</p>

    <p>As far as different moves go, Toxic and Thunder Wave are options over Power Whip or Gyro Ball if you want to deal more residual damage or support your team, respectively. While Nattorei can set up Stealth Rock, the move is illegal with Spikes and Leech Seed. And it's worth noting that many Pokemon learn Stealth Rock, while few learn the latter two moves.</p>

    <p>Many players will use Sun abusers such as Ho-oh, Heatran, and Reshiram to defeat or set up on Nattorei. To stop these threats, a Kyogre or Tyranitar is recommended. As a bonus, both of them nullify the Sun. Other players will employ Pokemon such as Skarmory or Forretress, who shut down Nattorei with Taunt and Rapid Spin, respectively. Again, Kyogre can deal with these threats, but you need a Pokemon that can block Rapid Spin. Therefore, either Giratina, Giratina-O, or Ghost Arceus are good choices to pair with Nattorei, and all three have solid typing synergy with it. Finally, Nattorei may find itself needing Wish support to continue in its support capacities, so a Blissey or Chansey are recommended partners.</p>

    [*] Only Pokemon in the game bar Shedinja to resist Palkia's Water/Dragon/Electric attack comboes, and possesses far higher Special Defense than Skarmory or Forretress.
    [*]Spikes and Leech Seed help apply considerable residual damage
    [*]Solid SDef and Steel-type lets it take hits from Pokemon like Dialga and Palkia.
    [*]Power Whip is a useful STAB move that hits both Kyogre and Groudon supereffectively.
    [*]Gyro Ball, despite low PP and being resisted by many Pokemon, ensures that Giratina-O can't set up on you (given Rain) as well as being your best option against Pokemon like Mewtwo and Latias.

    [Team Options]
    <p>The weather is fairly important to Nattorei. Many Pokemon possess Fire-type attacks, and the Rain provided by Kyogre halves their power, letting Nattorei survive surprise Fire-type attacks from Pokemon such as Mewtwo and Giratina-O. However, the Rain is a double-edged sword, since it also buffs the Water-type attacks of Pokemon such as Palkia. Since Nattorei is supposed to be a solid Palkia check, it's counterproductive for it to have difficulty switching into its STAB attacks. Of course, Nattorei isn't really bothered by Tyranitar's Sand. In short, you should pick your weather Pokemon with these points in mind.</p>

    <p>Nattorei forces many switches, so it enjoys entry hazard support. Fortunately, Nattorei will typically be the Pokemon that sets up the entry hazards, so you don't need an extra Pokemon such as Forretress to provide Spikes. However, most Nattorei will not be using Stealth Rock, so you need a Pokemon to set it up. Groudon and Dialga typically work well for the role. You will also need a Pokemon to protect your entry hazards. For this purpose, Giratina and Giratina-O are recommended, since their typing synergizes well with that of Nattorei, and they also have fairly high defenses.</p>

    <p>Nattorei counters tend to include Ho-oh, Reshiram, Heatran, which can OHKO it. Skarmory and Forretress can shut down its support capabilities, and Wobbuffet can set up on it. To counter the Fire-types, it's recommended that you use Kyogre or Tyranitar. Dealing with Skarmory or Forretress can be tricky, but Kyogre also works well for the role, as do many special attackers. Unfortunately, it's impossible to deal with Wobbuffet since you can't switch out of it, but you can employ Pokemon such as Darkrai or Mewtwo to limit its setup opportunities. Darkrai, which tends to force quite a few switches, also takes advantage of Nattorei's Spikes.</p>

    <p>The Fire-types that counter Nattorei all have one partner in common: Groudon. Fortunately, Giratina (already a recommended partner for Nattorei) is a solid Groudon check, so you don't need to go out of your way to counter it. Skarmory and Forretress will obviously have Giratina-O or Giratina as a partner. Tyranitar deals effectively with both as long as it avoids Will-O-Wisp. Also, in the Rain Nattorei can set up on both of them. Wobbuffet is partnered by whatever setup sweeper the opponent chooses to include, so you'll have to deal with that on a case-by-case basis. Fortunately, a Choice Scarf user such as Palkia does a good job of checking many of the threats Wobbuffet helps setup.


    [Optional Changes]
    <p>Curse is a possibility in lower tier play, but too many Pokemon have Fire-type moves in the present Ubers environment. You can also attempt to use moves like Level Ground and Payback, but Power Whip and Gyro Ball do more damage to most targets in the Ubers environment.</p>

    <p>Rugged Helmet is a useful item to deal residual damage to physical threats such as Garchomp, but Leftovers and Shed Shell are preferred in most situations. Finally, Nattorei has a variety of viable EV spreads to use if you want to hit various defensive benchmarks, so you should feel free to experiment.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>Unfortunately, the new prevalence of Fire-types in the metagame has brought serious problems to Nattorei. Heatran, Ho-oh, and Reshiram laugh at anything Nattorei can do (though Leech Seed and Stealth Rock are annoyances), and they threaten a OHKO. Aside from Fire-types, Skarmory with Taunt completely shuts down Nattorei, while Forretress can spin away Nattorei's layers while putting up its own. Finally, Wobbuffet can turn Nattorei into setup fodder, though this is risky if it Encores Spikes.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Nattorei doesn't get a Dream World ability.</p>
  2. mtr

    mtr

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    I'm done for now, you guys can comment and let me know what's up.

    Regarding the EV spread: I stole it from Icyman in the Uncharted thread.
  3. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

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    Nice job!

    In the 4th slot, I think Gyro Ball could also do well in the 4th slot, since Nattorei only has 20 base speed. I also think you should mention Shanderaa as a teamate, since it's immune to fighting moves, and flash fire will give it a boost and it can easily force out or trap Fortress and Skarmory and OHKO them.
  4. Stellar

    Stellar
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    I don't really see the problem with pairing it with Groudon. It's not like Nattorei is going to be surviving that many Fire-type attacks anyway.
  5. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Okay, looks great. Marking this as done.
  6. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Stealth Rock should be slashed with Spikes, and Gyro Ball should be the main option of Slot 4, perhaps slashing in Payback as it keeps Shandera out of the picture as well. Granted, in the current Ubers play I'd probably use Toxic just because Giratina is a bitch of a wall to take down.
  7. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
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    Thunderwave should probably be slashed in with Leech Seed, mostly because it can screw up stuff like Rayquaza and Reshiram switch ins.
  8. mtr

    mtr

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    @Colonel M: SR is illegal with Spikes and Leech Seed, or I would have slashed it in. The reason to use Spikes is that not too many Pokemon learn Spikes, but lots of dudes learn SR.

    @Theorymon: Will do.
  9. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
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    4th gen Torterra with Stealth Rock + Leech Seed makes SR+Leech Seed perfectly legal. I'm not sure "lots of dudes learn SR" is a reason not to slash it in with Spikes.

    I don't think Explosion should be a main option, not when it no longer halves the opponent's Defense. That means Explosion's only doing ~47-56% to max-Def Blissey. If Explosion could be used twice, it wouldn't even be a guaranteed 2HKO! What else could it be exploding on that would make having it in the set worthwhile?

    EDIT: Also Level Ground is nice against Magnezone switch-ins. Too bad Nattorei is too slow to outspeed Magnezone even after Level Ground's speed drop.
  10. mtr

    mtr

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    Explosion no longer halves enemy defense? Wow, that kinda sucks. But anyways, thanks for the information.
  11. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Hi. I definitely think that Gyro ball should be the main option on the fourth slot along with a Sassy Nature and 0 speed IV's. Nattorei reaches a minimum of 40 speed, meaning he'll be hitting with a 150 BP gyro most of the time. With that base attack, he can actually hurt things.
  12. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Still no Stealth Rock, still no Gyro Ball. Why aren't these added yet and wtf is Explosion still doing as the main options?

    Ground Level should be in Optional Changes.
  13. mtr

    mtr

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    Sorry, Colonel M, I added them in now.
  14. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Level Ground (or whatever it's called, lol, the 60 BP Ground move that's like Icy Wind) should definitely be mentioned. It's extremely useful, and although it looks odd with Gyro Ball, it is used mostly on Pokemon that resist Gyro Ball. For instance, if Dory comes in, a +1 Speed Doryuuzu is revenged by tons of Scarfers (it would "technically" be a -1 Doryuuzu, but whatever).
  15. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    Shed Shell definitely needs to be an option, it has saved me from countless Shanderaa so far. Leech Seed can make up for Leftovers healing if that's what you're really worried about.

    Protect is also a good option to scout for HP Fire on the odd Grass-type, and for Fire-moves on random things like Tyranitar. It also helps scout for random Pokemon using Focus Blast.

    And since in all likelihood we're starting with a ban list, can this be tweaked a bit to include more OU threats? Nattorei looks like a good pokemon on paper in Ubers (i havent tried it there), but it is definitely more suited to OU where its Gyro Ball hurts a lot more. I know the current rules say we need to wait for our banlist, but I just wanted to let you know that this analysis is going to need tweaking in a couple of days since by the PR poll it's obvious there will be one.
  16. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Not sure about Shed Shell for Shanderaa, as I'm not sure we're slashing things for unreleased Dream World Pokemon. However, as slow as Nattorei is, it would probably be a good option for Wobbuffet. Unlike Forretress, Nattorei is actually SLOWER than Wobbuffet, meaning that Wobb basically gets to do whatever it wants to Nattorei- at least Forretress can do something as Wobb switches in, and do another "something" as it Encores. Nattorei will get immediately Encored as soon as Wobb comes in, which causes problems.
  17. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
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    Magnezone is another problem, as with Genosect around (even though it's an event Pokemon), it has even more reasons to run Hidden Power Fire.
  18. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Some cool stuff not mentioned:

    A Curse set is actually a pretty good idea. It can take a single nonSTAB fire hit thanks to the beefy Special Defense, and the Fire types that really bother it like Heatran are stuff you can bait or trap pretty easily with Dugtrio or some other kind of set. It's got that Fire weakness, but you can also use Occa Berry to deal with that if need be.

    Level Ground is a weak move and the secondary effect isn't that much of a help but it's still a Ground move and it still gets pretty good coverage on stuff like Heatran. The Speed drop should help your favorite Water type beat it since it can't get off two Choice Specs Fire Blasts. I think it should at least be an OO mention if not a slash with Gyro Ball. Also, Level Ground is way, way better than HP Fire versus Magnezone.

    It may be worth looking into how much Nattorei needs to EV to OHKO Rapid Spinner Starmie.
  19. mtr

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    Yeah, it's been a while, and I need some help with the Overview. I tried to say things about why Nattorei was useful in Ubers, but I'm not sure if I need to be that specific with what I write.

    @CIM: Well, a Curse set might be good in OU, but right now Ubers is full of Fire moves thanks to Reshiram teams, so I can't see it being very useful there.
  20. Mijzelffan

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    As said before, I'd slash Payback. Or at least put it in optional changes.
  21. LordVanitas

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    Soooo no Rugged helmet set?
  22. cosmicexplorer

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    The health boost from Leftovers, especially when coupled with healing from Leech Seed, makes it more useful than a bit of extra residual damage on physical attackers. It's usable, but not as useful as Leftovers.
  23. mtr

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    @Migzelf: I discussed this with others on IRC, and we agreed that Gyro Ball was the better move: due to Nattorei's abysmal speed, it hits many Ubers for the same value or greater anyways.

    @cosmicexplorer: right you are. Nattorei is a defensively-minded mon, so Leftovers are a given. And seeing that Theorymon is the only person that uses Shanderaa, Shed Shell isn't that great.
  24. calze6

    calze6

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    Shed shell and rugged helmet should deserve a mention imo as it can either evade magnezone and shanderaa (in dream world) and rugged helmet can wear down the opponent a lot.
  25. mtr

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    I added Rugged Helmet in OO.

    Also, I'm almost done with the full write-up! Just got 2 sections to go.

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