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NFEs in the NU Tier

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Elegy96, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Mysterious Trainer

    Mysterious Trainer

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    [​IMG]
    Gabite @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Rush/Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Hone Claws
    - Outrage

    Although this set faces stiff competition from the likes of Fraxure and even Dragonair, how it operates is significantly different. Instead of getting a speed boost, you're getting an improved Stone Edge/Dragon Rush. Better typing in dual STABs are also a plus when considering Gabite over Fraxure.
  2. Nyara

    Nyara

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
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    It's not just a poor version of Seismitoad?

    Because what I'm seen is the fact that Marshtomp with Eviolite and that EV's Spread have almost the same bulk as Seismitoad with the same spread, Marshtomp hit's 40-42%+ aprox. of defense (the same, but worst comes to the special defense), but Semistoad hits an aprox of 30%+ of HP, and of course, he have more speed, better special attack if it's needed, and useful abilities, and of course, he can use any other item, like, Leaftovers, and be in that way more bulkier than Marshtomp.

    Seismitoad also have Surf/Hydro Pump (the last deals more damage with the same spread), Earthquake, and Stealth Rock, making as unique difference that Marshtomp have Ice Punch, while Semistoad had to use Poison Jab or Focus Blast, but, come one, I'll don't change better stats, the use of other item, and better abilities for Ice Punch.

    Edit: Whiscash also outclass that Marshtomp if you're having already a Stealth Rock user.
  3. Kenny

    Kenny don't expect me

    Joined:
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    [​IMG]
    Pupitar @ Eviolite
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant/Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Rest

    You may be laughing now, but you won't be laughing when Pupitar sweeps your team. Pupitar obviously doesn't seem like much, but it is certainly more impressive than you would think. It gets the very useful Shed Skin, which is a really good ability for a set up sweeper, especially paired with rest. It has access to the semi-rare Dragon Dance, an extremely useful boosting move. It has two very useful stabs, in Earthquake and Stone Edge, but it's typing is a double edge sword. Pupitar's typing sucks. Dual weakness to both Water and Grass, two already threatening types in the NU tier. Also, even with a boost it's not a speed demon. While Pupitar has it's obvious flaws, it's still a good NFE to use if you're looking for something different.
    TROP likes this.
  4. sickweare

    sickweare

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
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    184
    Don't judge ;;

    [​IMG]
    Marill @ Choice Band
    Trait: Huge Power
    252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    -Aqua Jet
    -Waterfall
    -Ice Punch
    -Superpower

    Well, I have tried this set before and it is quite powerful. While it is nothing game-breaking (at all), it is rather viable. 1. It has the surprise factor and 2. Your opponent will be too busy laughing to realize that Marill had just cleaned up the rest of his team (sometimes). Aqua Jet is mainly what I use for late game sweeping. This set is also great for Dual Screens and someone to set up rocks. With rocks on the field, defeating Specially Defensive Amoonguss is 10x easier thanks to Marill's higher speed and access to Ice Punch. Dual Screens help tank some special attacks (except grass and electric) and allows marill to attempt a offensive sweep. With Adamant natured and huge power, its base attack rises to 304 which is where the choice band comes in handy. Of course, Allomomola and basically every bulky water type stops it in its tracks, and its frailty is easily taken advantage of by Absol and the likes. All in all, I was surprised at the effectiveness of this set, but it's not as good as other Choice Band users for sure. Cool points for using it though!
  5. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Haha I like the Marill set, however, it is 100% outclassed by Basculin, who's bulkier, faster and stronger, plus its ability adaptability is almost as good as Marill's.
  6. sickweare

    sickweare

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    I agree, but if you ever wanna get someone to not take you seriously, just pop a Marill on your team. (:

    Another one I found quite viable:
    [​IMG]
    Nidorino @Eviolite
    Trait: Hustle
    56 HP/252 Atk/100 Def/100 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    -Poison Jab
    -Hone Claws/Head Smash
    -Sucker Punch
    -Drill Run

    With Hustle at its side, Nidorino can become a major threat. With some investment in the defenses and an eviolite, Nidorino is capable of taking a few hits before lashing out. Sucker punch is for everything you think it can't tank a hit from while the others are for tearing the other teams apart. Unfortunately Hustle lowers accuracy and with only a few strong moves (that even have lower accuracy), you may be frustrated with the misses. Fear not though, because if a hit lands you won't be disappointed (even with its seemingly low attack stat).
  7. Celever

    Celever

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    Urm... where is Sealeo?

    From my rate my team:
    [​IMG]
    Sealeo

    Item: Eviolite

    Ability: Thick fat

    Surf

    Ice beam

    Rest

    Sleep talk

    252Spatk/128Def/128Spd



    One word. Bulk. I get asked all the time why I use Sealeo and not Walrein, over on smogon my comment about Sealeo was actually deleted with the mod simply saying "Sealeo is completely out-classed by Walrein". Ever heard of Eviolite? It makes Sealeo a proper wall, with his defense and special defense all the way up at 312, taking into account eviolite, making Sealeo one of the best walls in NU! I also often get asked why I spread the EVs out evenly between Sealeo! Well, instead of it just being a special wall or physical wall, I just make it a wall! Of course, taking into account my Muk (you'll see him later) I have a special wall, but to be honest a purely physical wall that is part ice is bad because of rock and fighting attacks' commonness! It's a pretty standard ResTalk set but it really does work!!!
  8. sickweare

    sickweare

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    Wouldn't it be good to use some HP evs? I mean it would work well with Ice Body in Hail, but it would still be a viable option to invest with thick fat IMO
  9. Celever

    Celever

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    Yeah, but as I put in the description it is neither special nor physically defensive, just defensive. It's an automatic wall, but with 252 in special attack it hits hard too. It really doesn't need the HP EVs with eviolite and rest and it almost never dies from the 2 turns it is asleep... so... If it could have more EVs then sure they'd be nice, but since you can only get a maximum of 508 there isn't space.
  10. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    It can hardly take any hits, I'd take Wartortle, who I hate, over it any day. Also, Nidorino needs Hone Claws for Hustle.
  11. cuckoos

    cuckoos

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    While Sealeo is not *completely* outclassed by Walrein due to its superior statistical bulk with Eviolite, the lack of Leftovers hurts it severely. It is also huge setup fodder for Pokemon such as Musharna, Ludicolo, Samurott, Carracosta, Gorebyss, Gurdurr, SD Lickilicky, Articuno, Arbok: really, the list goes on. Most things that take neutral or resisted damage from its STABs (mainly Water, Electric, and Fighting-types) are either setting up on or killing it with their own STAB or coverage moves. Sealeo will not be able to take these powerful repeated hits well, and this deters it from its performing its job efficiently.

    Sealeo is also definitely not one of the best walls in NU. Alomomola, Tangela, and Amoonguss generally outclass it in a Physically defensive role, while Lickilicky, Mantine, and Altaria generally outclass it in a Specially defensive role.
  12. Celever

    Celever

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    Lots of walls are huge setup fodder, especially Alomomola! I have a Curse Muk that actually maxed out with 6 Atk and Def boosts against an alomomola and continued to sweep what was left of his team. In terms of actually walling it can go for hours, and Sealeo has taken down Articuno numerous amounts of times (he usually can't hit Articuno super-effectively either, and ice beam is neutral). If thew opponent starts setting up then usually what I do is use ice beam and go for freeze hax (it works sometimes, the opponent generally gets greedy once they see that I'm not switching) or Sealeo dies and I bring in specs Girafarig to finish the job, generally outspeeding the opponent. Also Girafarig has sap sipper, so if I can figure out when Ludico will stop boosting I can switch to Girafarig to absorb the giga drain and then let hydro miss miss.

    With right support Sealeo is beastly (as beastly as a wall can be), and it holds the honour of being a great wall, neither physical nor special, just making it a great defense on your team. Every team needs a good wall, and even though Sealeo doesn't have leftovers, he is almost never 3HKO'd so he can generally attack with the sleep talks, attack with an attack that he knows (ice beam or surf) and then rest again. Not to say I haven't tried out Walrein, Sealeo worked better on my team for me.
  13. Fotographic

    Fotographic

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    Sealeo is pretty terrible. With your EVs, Sealeo is OHKOd by many extremely common things, like Sawk. Also, from what I'm reading, especially around here:
    "go for freeze hax"
    "and let hydro miss miss"
    you depend on hax to help win, which isn't a good thing. Sealeo is 2HKOd by nearly anything hard-hitting, and a weakness to SR doesn't help (Sealeo could survive a +1 Psychic from Gardevoir, but not with SR)

    Sealeo sucks. He can't take any hits in this Rock/Fighting infested metagame, and struggles to hold on to most powerful neutral hits.

    Also, Alomomola isn't setup fodder if you play it right. I have a hard time believing that anyone would just let their Alomomola sit there and do nothing while you boost up.
  14. IceSpade

    IceSpade

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    Oct 11, 2012
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    There seems to be some interest for NFE water types in this thread. However, the one with highest usage seems to be not discussed yet.
    [​IMG]
    Wartortle @ Eviolite
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Haze
    - Toxic / Yawn

    Wartortle is one of the few Rapid Spinners in the tier, and the only one without a Rock weakness. This gives him the ability to not multiply weaknesses in certain teams such as Hail teams, which is more than enough to justify his use. However he also has decent bulk and typing to support the team more by taking a few hits, and Scald to burn a few opponents and scare Golurk out. A lot of people deem Wartortle as setup bait but he has the tools in Haze, Toxic and Yawn to prevent or stop setup.

    I've tried Wartortle out in my hail team, and it does what it is designed to do: beat Golurk, remove Stealth Rock which almost all Ice-types hate, and be more than just death fodder.
  15. Wobble

    Wobble

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    Aug 14, 2012
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    73
    Marill is absolutely pathetic and should never be used. Even with Huge Power it is much weaker than things like Basculin and has the worst bulk imaginable, it will be 2HKOed even by resists and is laughably slow, especially with that EV spread.
  16. sickweare

    sickweare

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    Messages:
    184
    Okay well I was testing it out for fun and I found it to be rather useful. Forgive me, but I wasn't really working to outspeed anything and it was just a test to see if it compared at all to its older bro in UU. Like I said, it was interesting to see it do remarkably well against unsuspecting opponents, but it isn't as good as other choice band user. It just makes battling a little more fun imo ;_; Congrats you successfully butthurt me. (may or may not be kidding)
  17. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    [​IMG]
    Misdreavus @ Eviolite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split / Rest
    - Taunt / Heal Bell / Perish Song / Sleep Talk

    Misdreavus is one of the premier counters to Fighting, Ground, and Normal types in the tier. Max investment in Defense coupled Eviolite allows Misdreavus to shrug off any coverage moves that Pokemon such as Sawk, Golem, Tauros, or Piloswine may use while crippling them for the rest of the match with Will-O-Wisp. It also has decent speed for a defensive Pokemon, meaning that slow, powerful Choice Band users such as Torterra won't be able to land a hit on Misdreavus before being burned, and can utilize Taunt to break opposing walls. It also has plenty of other supporting moves such as Heal Bell and Perish Song, which are both useful depending on the situation. Misdreavus' biggest flaw is its lack of reliable recovery, but can still utilize either Pain Split or Rest and Sleep Talk to regenerate health.
  18. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    Seriously, your opponent must've been a horrible one. No one lets Muk set up 6 times...... And also, most walls are set-up fodders, especially your Sealeo..
  19. cuckoos

    cuckoos

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    I strongly agree with FLCL regarding Misdreavus. Its bulk with Eviolite works great in conjunction with its typing, and it counters a formidable threat in Sawk: a Pokemon who has been running rampant throughout the meta for quite some time now.

    I think I'd like to point out that a very (very) small amount of NFE Pokemon that actually reside in the NFE tier are usable in NU. I've found that most NFE Pokemon that are viable in NU reside in the NU tier, with their usage typically being a testament to how viable they are. While things such as Marshtomp, Chinchou, and Sealeo are fun to use on joke teams, they are not very great against the tier's top threats, and thus should remain mostly ignored.

    However, there are a few gems that some have already pointed out, including Pupitar and Bronzor. Pupitar has a niche in setting up in front of Rotom-Fan (widely regarded as the tier's best revenge killer), while Bronzor can easily set up on Normal-types such as Cincinno and Zangoose.
  20. citro

    citro

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    Oct 12, 2012
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    Vigoroth
    [​IMG]
    Vigoroth @ Eviolite
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 SDef / 56 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Taunt
    - Bulk Up
    - Return
    - Slack Off

    This set is ideal for balanced teams looking for a way to get around common defensive cores like Alomoonguss. Vigoroth has excellent bulk, allowing it to easily shrug off hits from most walls. Taunt plays a large part in the set functioning - it allows Vigoroth to prevent status and phazing from defensive pokemon, forcing them to only use their weak attacks. From there it can easily set up and hit them with boosted Returns while they cannot heal off the damage. Access to an instant recovery move mitigates the lack of Leftovers and means it can continue to Bulk Up indefinitely. Return is the best STAB move it has to offer; Body Slam can be used for the paralysis, but it doesn't really help against anything except offensive pokemon. The given Speed EVs outspeed all Adamant Emboar which I felt was an important benchmark, but can be bumped up if you desire.

    This set plays very similarly to Substitute + Bulk Up Braviary in that it is excellent at dealing with defensive and to an extent balanced teams, because they have many weak attackers such as Amoonguss, Alomomola, and Audino that Vigoroth and Braviary love to exploit. Braviary has an easier time with status since Substitute protects it from Sludge Bomb poison and Scald burns, as well as a STAB move that isn't so widely resisted. However Vigoroth has its fair share of advantages to, that include beating Rock types even without multiple boosts beforehand (including Psych Up Regirock!), immunity to phazing from the likes of Bastiodon, and the ability Vital Spirit which allows it to come in for free on Amoonguss's Spore. The added utility of Taunt can come in handy at times, e.g. preventing Stealth Rocks being set up. Because this set obviously can't touch Ghost types, a powerful Pursuit user like Absol or Skuntank help out. Taunt also stops Misdreavus from using Will-O-Wisp on the switchin. A solid check to Sawk, such as Amoonguss, Musharna, or Misdreavus is also necessary (Emboar not so much as a +2 Vigoroth can stall out Superpower).
  21. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    toxic is an option over bulk up on that set to break down stall even more. although you probably won't be sweeping through the opponent, it gives you something to do against ghosts if you can't manage to pursuit trap them. stallbreaker vigoroth is extremely versatile defensively and can run a specially or physically defensive set tailored to your team's needs.
  22. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    Credit to FLCL

    [​IMG]


    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Spikes
    - Rest / Synthesis

    Roselia is the best Spiker in the tier, atm. She hits hard with her STAB moves, and can lay down Spikes. EVs outspeed max Speed Golem. Last slot should go to Synthesis, but if you prefer Rest you could go with that too. Modest Nature lets her hit harder, while SAtk EVs are maxed out for the most Special Attack possible. Eviolite lets her take a lot of Special hits, while Natural Cure can make her an effective status absorber.
  23. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    You could at least give FLCL some credit for making that set. You also basically c/p'd most of his post :/

    Also JCM, I would not be so quick to call Roselia the best Spikes user in the tier. Garbodor still exists and makes for a better defensive Spikes user thanks to its great physical bulk that lets it make the most out of its Poison-typing. Garbodor checks Sawk and Gurdurr better than Roselia can ever hope to. FLCL said it better than I could in his post here, but I'll sum up the main role that this Roselia takes on. Offensive Spikes Roselia uses it good Speed and great Special Attack to pose an offensive threat while setting up Spikes in the process. It makes for a great stallbreaker as with just its STABs alone it puts great pressure on teams relying on the Alomomola + Tangela core while being able to use the opportunity to set up Spikes to hinder Pokemon that could tank Roselia's hits such as Lickilicky while also supporting its teammates. The main fall of the set is that even with Eviolite, Roselia's bulk without max investment is subpar and makes for an unreliable switch into Samurott, Ludicolo, Sawsbuck and the like.
  24. TheAweDude

    TheAweDude

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    May 2, 2009
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    Here is a Whirlipede set I was using before Roselia dropped. It is slightly outclassed, but it has a few things that Roselia does not, namely better defences and Struggle Bug.

    [​IMG]
    Whirlipede @ Eviolite
    Trait: Quick Feet
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rest
    - Struggle Bug

    Welcome to the most single minded Pokemon you have seen. Whirlipede usually has one and only one goal, setting up Spikes. Unfortunately, Whirlipede is complete set up fodder, even if I run max attack, as its strongest attack is Steamroller, which is where Struggle Bug comes in. It allows various special based 2HKOs (like Ludicolo and Samurrot) to turn into 3-4HKOs, which allows Whirlipede to set up more spikes, force switches and make my switching easier. Alomolomolomolomolomola might not like Ludicolo much, but at -2, Alo can start passing Wishes and heal the team. Rest is for healing and to frustrate special walls even more, and because Whirlipede's movepool is terrible.

    Against most physical attackers, Whirlipede relies on its naturally high defence. It cannot come in on powerful neutral STABs, like from Zangoose, Ursaring and Sawsbuck, but it can come in on Ice Punches or Close Combats from Sawk. Gurrdurr cannot do much to Whirlipede, but neither can Whirlipede, so Gurrdurr can joyfully set up infront of Whirlipede and eventually beat it after a few Bulk Ups. The same can be said of Braviary, possibly to devastating effects, so viable Physical Walls (hopefully with Roar) are needed to take those hits. Bastiodon can utilize Whirlipede's 4x fighting resist to take the Flying and Psychic attacks aimed at it. Healing is also pretty useful, as Whirlipede is weak to SR and Spikes, which will force it to rest more often. As such, a Cleric can also be used to wake Whirlipede up after it rests.

    Also, despite its SpDef investment, powerful attackers like Musharna and Gardevoir can KO Whirlipede, although Whirlipede can leave two parting Struggle Bugs with Musharna. Regice can also fire off semi-powerful Thunderbolts thanks to its SpAtk preserving Clear Body. Whorlipede is alsovulnerable to Trick varients of Rotom, but it can usually take on non-Trick Rotom-Frost thanks to being nuetral to Blizzard.

    Sadly, as I said, Whirlipede is almost completely outclassed by Roselia, who can set up both Spikes, but can use Leech Seed, SleepPowder, and its competent SpAtk to actually do some damage. But, I find Whirlipede has some great resistances (4x Fighting and no Ice weakness) and a great Defence, so it might find a very small niche in a team that likes Struggle Bug. It just requires too much team support to function.
  25. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

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    Tsk Tsk Tsk. We all have forgotten about the one, the only

    PIKACHU

    [​IMG]

    Pikachu@ [​IMG]
    Mild Nature
    Lightningrod
    124 SpAtk, 124 Atk, 252 Spe (Work in progress)
    Thunder/Thunderbolt
    Brick Break
    Hidden Power Grass
    Extremespeed

    Pikachu is an underrated threat. With the equivalent of 110/100/90 offenses thanks to Light Ball, as well as access to Extremespeed, it can become a very fearsome sweeper. Thunder and Tbolt just kill shit left and right, Brick Break for Steels, HP Grass to kill Seismitoad, and Extremespeed to fuck with priority abusers.

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