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NFEs in the NU Tier

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Elegy96, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    EBeast, thanks a lot for advice. I'll try to detect better set (offensive) with the NFE pokèmon you written above.
  2. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    Note that I haven't currently tested this yet, but I intend to. And I will post on my experiences, but I just wanted to throw this out there first.

    [​IMG]

    Staryu. A Pokemon with some pretty terrible stats, but... hang on a second. Its Speed is actually decent, at base 85. What does this mean? It means that it's got the ability to get off a Rapid Spin before the opponent can knock it out, something that Armaldo, Torkoal and Wartortle lack, considering their terrible base Speed stats. Oh yeah, it has access to Eviolite, Natural Cure and Recover. Staryu can act as a status absorber, and thanks to instant recovery, stick around for a bit. And, it has a brilliant movepool. I think that there are two sets that Staryu can run, similar to big brother star up in OU: an offensive spinner and a defensive spinner.

    You see, while 70 base SpA may seem unappealing (and it is lol) Staryu has something going for it. Haunter is incredibly frail and unable to OHKO Staryu, and Golurk is both slower than Staryu and weak to Hydro Pump. The set that I plan on running is something along these lines:

    Staryu @ Eviolite
    Timid / Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave / Thunderbolt / Signal Beam / w/e

    252 SpA Staryu Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Haunter: 211-250 (90.94 - 107.75%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Staryu Hydro Pump vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 314-372 (86.74 - 102.76%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO

    I'm not gonna bother with a calc against Misdreavus, since you'll never break it in a million years. Thankfully, it's less common than the two seen above. Anyway, as you can see, Staryu has the ability to OHKO both of NU's premier Ghost-types (although you must nail Haunter on the switchin, but this is pretty easy, as, and this is pure theorymon, they know that if you're using Staryu you're using it for Rapid Spin, and that they can come in and outspeed you). You must always first Hydro Pump if you see Haunter or Golurk. After the Ghost-type has been eliminated, Staryu is free to spin against a miriad of Pokemon in NU, thanks to its good base Speed. You can also opt to forego the SpA EVs and place them into bulk, but the power drop is noticeable. However, if you run a Pursuit user, you can most likely afford to do this, as it'll give Staryu more chances to spin. Recover helps Staryu distinguish itself from other spinners, so it should generally stay. The last slot is really pretty much a tossup. Thunder Wave can provide some pretty nice team support, and Staryu can outrun things like Braviary or Gardevoir that you might wish to paralyze. If you run Thunder Wave, it may be better using it first when you predict an incoming Haunter, as it puts the odds of beating it far more in your favor. You could also possibly run a coverage move if your team needs it. Thunderbolt shaves a good chunk off of Samurott (56.19 - 66.46%), and Staryu can switch into any of Grass Knot, Waterfall, Swords Danc or Aqua Jet. Signal Beam is what I intend to use though, as you can lure out Exeggutor (since I intend on using Staryu with Charizard obviously, Chlorophyll Exeggutor could steal my sun). It's really customizable though, as you can run Toxic for bulky things like Tangela, Musharna or Alomomola, or even Gravity if that's your cup of tea.

    So yeah, Staryu. I'm not expecting great things from it, but just from theorymon, it seems like it could be a cool partner for things that really, really want entry hazards gone (shedinja, charizard, articuno, etc). Above all, it should be pretty fun to use ;)
  3. A Novel Idea

    A Novel Idea

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    Staryu's base 30 HP is a dealbreaker for me. I just can't get over its 202 HP. Please give us an update when it's been fieldtested, it does seem interesting considering how common Haunter/Golurk are.
  4. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    If you're gonna use a mono attack without stab you might as well use Hidden Power - Dragon. But Stab Psychic works in a pinch when you're up against a Offensive team without any walls for you to trap so Gothrita isn't a total dead weight. You can still trap Sawk choice locked into Close Combat for example.

    Although Substitute sounds like a good idea, if you're carrying a eviolite, you only have 4 possible opportunities to set up +6 Calm Mind (not to mention passive damage from rocks and spikes), while if you op for leftovers, the opposing pokemon could easily break your sub and I don't know any set for any pokemon carrying both substitute and rest. If you op for 2 attacks and rest, you leave yourself vulnerable for two turns doing nothing but with Gothrita's bulk she could potentially survive those two turns but there's always a chance for a critical hit, putting you into a OHKO/2HKO range, making all your hard work setting up your +6 Calm mind null and void. At the very least Rest Talk puts some offensive pressure on the opposing pokemon.

    You have to remember, the goal of my Gothrita is to trap and eliminate a wall so one of my other pokemon can come in and sweep. For example if Tangela is the only pokemon preventing my Sawk from sweeping the opposing team, Gothrita can come in, trap it, eliminate it and Sawk can now come in on the revenge and sweep the rest of the opposing team.

    Anything extra is a BONUS. Yes Gothrita can potentially be a threat once she reaches +6 but that's only under circumstances where the opposing team has no dark types, no trick/knock off/haze/clear smog users, super effective physical attacks or critical hits.

    If you're using her your main Psychic sweeper, you're better off using Gardevoir or Musharna. IF you're gonna use her as your main psychic sweeper anyway and want to prevent a Dark type from ruining your day, best to pair her up with a Fighting type like Sawk or Gurdurr.
  5. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    Cherub Agent, I had always thought Staryu with a pokemon LC, I haven't a such and really nice idea like this ("pick" in LC something useful in NU).

    I think the same, I found your idea very interesting. That's a pity Staryu do not access to discarge, less powerful but more effective to paralyze the target.
  6. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    So yeah, I tested Staryu, and have mixed results. One thing that is noteworthy is that it actually is pretty good at what it's meant to do: Rapid Spin. I successfully OHKOd a Golurk and then proceeded to spin, in the other matches my opponents never had a Ghost-type so I couldn't test that part out in practise. Staryu is cool and unique in the fact that it's a fast spinner, so just bring it in on something slower and and do the hoca coca. Spikers aren't always accompanied by a spinblocker in NU, so that kind of works to Staryu's advantage. I basically had a team of more or less Flying-types with Spikes support, and while it did win me every game I played, it wasn't really my style. But that's nothing to do with Staryu. What I didn't like about my Staryu was how one dimensional it was. Hydro Pump is not the best move to rely on at ALL, especially as your only attack. And it was weak. And incredibly frail, even with Eviolite. But I was using a set of Hydro Pump, Signal Beam, Recover and Rapid Spin with max SpA. Let me just say that I don't recommend it to anyone. You will get off a Rapid Spin, but to be honest not much else. Your teammates really have to pick up the slack for what is essentially a wasted team slot.

    However, I think that I used Staryu the wrong way. If I'm using it as a team supporter, I should dedicate the entire set to that purpose, and not some weird hybrid of support and weak offense like what I was previously using. I scouted some battles where DTC used a far more interesting Staryu set. Here it is:

    Staryu @ Eviolite
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Thunder Wave

    DTC used a status platform. With the added bulk, Staryu should be able to take more punishment, and the burn from Scald and the crippling paralysis of Thunder Wave will benefit your team far more in the long run than Hydro Pump and Signal Beam ever could. You still outspeed and 2HKO Golurk anyway, and Haunter can be Thunder Waved. The HP EVs should allow Staryu to take most moderate power hits and live. From pure theorymon, this set looks far more useful than the one I was using, and I intend to put it into practise as well.

    In short: don't use offensive Staryu. It's not worth it. The bulkier model should provide you with far more team support.
  7. Nyara

    Nyara

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    Well, offensive Staryu may see some uses if it uses Life Orb and forgoe Recover in order to use Thunderbolt, it may not Rapid Spin more than 1-2 times per game, but it's still spinning stuff while revenge kill at the same time, so, it may see some uses for hyper offensives teams, but usually, Staryu should take real use of Eviolite, in that way it can Rapid Spin more times per match, and it can recover it's damage, and status some foes, and it still had offensive presence with it's 70 base Spa and Scald.

    I could rather forgoe some of speed in order to make it more bulkier, but it depends of what are you wanting to outspeed with Staryu.
  8. A Novel Idea

    A Novel Idea

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    For the past few months I've been using Luxray to great effect as a defensive pivot (Max HP, Max Defense @ Leftovers; Discharge/Toxic/Protect/Volt Switch). I'm in love with Intimidate as a bulk-bestower/saving grace for certain Pokemon commonly regarded as PU--and I thought that Staravia could benefit from being played as a kind of Luxray in this respect.

    Luxray and Staravia (with Eviolite, of course) actually share the same bulk. Staravia has lower HP but effectively gains base 100 Defense with max investment. Both take the same amount of damage from Choice Banded -1 Sawk's Close Combat--48% to 56%.

    It gains an immunity to Ground in exchange for a weakness to Ice, Electric and Rock:

    Piloswine's probably the most common physical Ice user, followed by Sawk's Ice Punch--against -1 Piloswine, Staravia takes a maximum of 22% from Ice Shard and a maximum of 74% from a 5 hit Icicle Spear. It'll take 40-47% from Choice Banded -1 Sawk's Ice Punch.

    Physical Electric attacks are very uncommon save for Wild Charge from Rapidash and Zebstrika--Staravia takes a maximum of 49% from the former's Choice Banded -1 Wild Charge, a maximum of 73% from the latter's Choice Banded -1 Wild Charge. Mmm.

    Rock attacks and Stealth Rock--of course--sink it. Choice Banded -1 Sawk's Stone Edge does 54 - 63% to it, which is promising for the most common rock move in the tier.

    Generally speaking, a spinner would be nice to support it some, Maybe some Heal Bell support so Toxic doesn't go to town on it.

    And here's the set I have in mind:

    [​IMG]
    Staravia @ Eviolite
    Intimidate
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    - Toxic/Whirlwind*
    - Protect/Whirlwind/Tailwind/Featherdance/Brave Bird**
    - U-turn
    - Roost

    *If you've Toxic Spikes support, ditch Toxic for Whirlwind and just go to town.
    **In order of what I perceive as the moves' usefulness. Featherdance is near the end because of Braviary.

    Basically, it's a bulky pivot who can recover--ditching several weaknesses in the process--and toxistall kinda. Or use it as a supporter--birds have some pretty great options when it comes to support.

    Choice Banded Braviary destroys this, but Bulk Up and Choice Scarf Braviaries actually stumble against Luxray or Mawile despite the Intimidate boost. I'm thinking of using this bird in a three-rung (three-legged? I don't know) defensive core with either Luxray or Mawile, plus a third unrelated Pokemon. A Luxray/Staravia double Intimidate core sounds really appealing.

    And this post is all theorymon. I'm sorry.
  9. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Staryu is actually pretty fun, although nothing amazing. The best attribute about Staryu is its access to fast Rapid Spin. If you are not planning to use Staryu for that, do not use Staryu. Natural Cure, Recover, and fast Thunder Wave are also pretty nifty as well.

    In most of my matches around Staryu, it accomplished the following things: spun away rocks once, did some damage with Scald, maybe paralyzed a Pokemon, and then was sacrificed in order to destroy with my other offensive Pokemon. Staryu does what it needs to do, and not much besides that. Staryu tends to get 2HKO'd by most neutral attacks, but thankfully not many neutral attacks can OHKO it.

    Nyara, I've actually considered using Life Orb > Eviolite on Staryu with a moveset of Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Rapid Spin. Staryu isn't very strong, and it would be OHKO'd by practically everything without Eviolite, but at least it can do a bit of damage. The annoying part, however, is that Staryu would have a very hard time using Rapid Spin without dying because of its paper defenses.
  10. Nyara

    Nyara

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    Well, Staryu is at least better than Wartortle, Delibird, and Spinda, in my opinion, it can at least spin before the enemy destroy you, and do something against the spinblockers, and it does even had better moves and ability for it's job. Torkoal and Armaldo are still better spinners, most of the time, but Staryu can recover and is not weak to Stealth Rock, and does have better support moves, so, it's a nice secondary option to have for the role.
  11. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Torkoal and Armaldo are weak to SR, and you don't want to compound a rock-weakness on teams which NEED a spinner (and thus already has a big weakness against Rock-attacks). And then both Wartortle and Staryu are better options.

    Now, the following question arised in my mind: Does Wartortle have anything over Staryu in regards to spinning, or is Staryu going to be the best or most reliable spinner in the tier?
  12. Django

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    Just because Torkoal and Armaldo stack weaknesses does not make them worse spinners than Staryu or Wartortle. Both can actually set up Stealth Rock, as well as carrying significant amounts of bulk without having to use Eviolite. Armaldo also has great offensive presence with Swords Dance, and being able to threaten Musharna is always a great thing to do in this metagame. Torkoal also has absurd physical bulk and can even use Shell Smash to force a spin.

    On the other hand Wartortle just kind of sits there and waits to die while hoping for Scald burns. It will still get used more than Staryu, but neither are going to be the best or most reliable spinner in the tier.
  13. Ryanor

    Ryanor

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    Although Armaldo has a respectable offesive presence, Armaldo can't touch Golurk (and he is one of the most common ghosts in NU). So if you need avoid hazards, don't put Armaldo in your team. At least, Wartortle will be able to spin once thanks to Foresight.
  14. Django

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    Actually a while ago I ran Armaldo with Aqua Tail for the primary purpose of hitting Golurk. Giving up X-Scissor or Rock Blast kinda sucks (or even giving up Stealth Rock) but you gain the ability to hit Golurk, Golem, Probopass and some other Stealth Rock setters much harder than Armaldo normally would. As such, I really wouldn't consider beating Golurk a significant niche Wartortle has over Armaldo, especially when this can happen:

    252Atk Armaldo (+Atk) Aqua Tail vs 176HP/0Def Golurk (Neutral): 69% - 82% (252 - 298 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    I know I sound like a broken record but I really REALLY don't get why people use Wartortle. Spending two turns to use Foresight + Rapid Spin really doesn't seem worth it to me, considering the amount of dangerous Pokemon that can set up on Wartortle (Samurott, Ludicolo, Exeggutor...). If your team is that concerned about Stealth Rock - you're using Articuno or Charizard or something - then why not just run Mold Breaker Sawk? It can outspeed and OHKO almost every Stealth Rock user, as well as just generally destroying everything else. Even Marowak works, and can use SR itself, while not giving the opposing team a gigantic opportunity to set up while you get rid of Stealth Rock.
  15. Ryanor

    Ryanor

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    In fact, I agree with you. There's no reason for using Wartortle in a balanced / ofensive team, since you can keep away hazards more effectively keeping offensive momentum. But when you're using a defensive team, you probably will need a way to deal entry hazards (you can build a team without weakness to Rock-, then Spikes are still a problem). Wartortle is not weak to Stealth Rock and it has access to Foresight. Basically this is what makes the difference from other spinners in NU.

    Anyway, everybody knows that Wartortle is a sitting duck, and you must play it carefully.
  16. DTC

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    It seems as if I may have sold Staryu's viability too much: Staryu is not that good. It is usable, and has its niches, but it is most definitely not the most reliable/best spinner in the tier.
  17. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Right, time to throw my two cents in. Riolu has entered the field.

    [​IMG]
    This little gem resides fairly low in NU usage, and I don't blame them. Riolu requires dedicated support and a fair amount of skill in order to work well, although he can hold his own against certain opponents or in certain situations as opposed to being a sitting duck the minute he screws up. Hazards are of course mandatory to unlock its potential. However, you may know what it does, but it doesn't necessarily make you prepared for it.
  18. saucemonkey1

    saucemonkey1

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    Duskull
    [​IMG]
    Set: SubSplit
    @Eviolite
    Ability: Levitate
    EV's: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Sp. Def
    Calm Nature (+Sp. Def, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss / Night Shade
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Substitute

    You might be asking yourself "Why would I ever use Duskull when there's the obviously superior Misdreavus mucking about?" Well, the answer to that question is a little more complicated than I'd like it to be. For starters, Duskull is far more physically bulky than Misdreavus, and slightly more specially bulky as well. Downside to that is Duskull's absolutely dreadful base HP stat, which rests at 20. Usually this would make a Pokemon completely unusable, but with such low HP, Duskull can really take advantage of Pain Split to damage the opponent while, if the opponent is at full health, usually fully heal itself. Despite his horrible HP, he can still take a pretty powerful Non-Super effective move and survive with enough health to retaliate with a Will-O-Wisp if physical, and a Pain Split if special. Substitute can also be used if you know that you can survive an attack in order to use Pain Split to greater effect, taking a massive chunk of health off of your opponent and recovering all the health you lost. Duskull's main problem is that it can't take a strong super effective hit, and it also can't take an extremely strong neutral hit, so allowing Pokemon to set up on his is a very bad idea.
    dntbldthis likes this.
  19. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    While Duskull does have a higher base Def and SpD than Misdreavus, its awful base 20 HP means that, at least with the spread you're using, Duskull actually has considerably less bulk than a standard Misdreavus.

    <@ebeast> !dmg Sawk 31 252 @Choice Band | Duskull 31 4/252 @Eviolite | Stone Edge
    <CDXCIV> Sawk's Stone Edge vs Duskull (90 - 107 HP) Damage: 49.45% - 58.79%

    <@ebeast> !dmg Sawk 31 252 @Choice Band | Misdreavus 31 252/252+ @Eviolite | Stone Edge
    <CDXCIV> Sawk's Stone Edge vs Misdreavus (105 - 124 HP) Damage: 32.41% - 38.27%

    <@ebeast> !dmg Gardevoir 31 252 @Life Orb | Duskull 31 4/252+ @Eviolite | Psychic
    <CDXCIV> Gardevoir's Psychic vs Duskull (97 - 114 HP) Damage: 53.3% - 62.64%

    <@ebeast> !dmg Gardevoir 31 252 @Life Orb | Misdreavus 31 252/4 @Eviolite | Psychic
    <CDXCIV> Gardevoir's Psychic vs Misdreavus (142 - 169 HP) Damage: 43.83% - 52.16%

    Misdreavus also has a much better speed tier with base 85 Speed that allows it to get off quick Taunts, Will-O-Wisps, and Pain Splits. The ability to get them quickly is great and Misdreavus still holds a decently powered Shadow Ball to do damage. The only thing Duskull really has over Missy would have to ironically be its low HP. With its low HP it can abuse Pain Split better, but in the end Misdreavus just does a better job at everything.
  20. sickweare

    sickweare

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    @saucemonkey, you can't fully invest in defenses without HP first, or else it will be very frail despite those investments!

    Also to the Staryu discussion, no matter what anyone says, Armaldo is the best spinner in the tier and Wartortle ends up being death fodder many times. Of course Wartortle has its options but often it isn't able to do what it wants to.
  21. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Armaldo is not really that great of a spinner mainly due to its typing and 4MSS, which brings forth some inconveniences. Its Rock/Bug typing means it cannot beat the Birds of NU such as Braviary and Swellow because it takes neutral damage from their Brave Birds. If it wants to Rapid Spin effectively it can't have Stealth Rock in its moveslot because it absolutely needs Swords Dance, Rock Blast, and Aqua Tail to break past the main NU Spinblockers in Misdreavus and Golurk.

    Staryu isn't very good, but Recover does give it a niche in a way as its the only Rapid Spin user in NU with access to reliable recovery. Having Scald as a STAB helps because it hits Golurk Super Effectively and can burn Misdreavus. Even then its bulk is nothing to write home about and even some decently powered neutral attacks will 2HKO it.

    Riolu is actually a pretty interesting Pokemon, but can be pretty hard to get it to work correctly or do anything other than Copycat Roar spamming. It would be nice to see someone finding the best possible set on the dog.
  22. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Protect + Copycat + Roar + Drain Punch is the best possible set on Riolu. Only very few hard counters, like Protect users, ghosts with Taunt, something that resists or is immune to fighting with Magic Coat and Soundproof Electrode or Mr. Mime.
    Though this list looks long, actually very few things are actually still alive at the moment Riolu comes in and starts Copycatting stuff, most likely its own Roar, but that is not necessary.
  23. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    I can attest to this. Being able to block Taunt or sleeping moves then proceed to fling it right back at them is fun as hell. Drain Punch deals with potential roadblocks in Liepard, Cradily and Bastiodon (screw you Mr.Mime and Natu). I am considering Substitute on Riolu, if only to safely setup on status moves such as Toxic and Thunder Wave from the likes of helpless but not so helpless bulky dudes like Alomomola and Probopass, while they can do little about it. The trouble is finding the moveslot for it. Riolu can still do fine though. Turning bulky, non status-reliant threats such as Piloswine, Gurdurr and Thunder Wave-less Regirock into simple setup fodder is an impressive feat Riolu can boast.

    Also EBeast, over here http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3476974
  24. sickweare

    sickweare

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    Actually, if you're using his utility set you can run both SR and rapid spin. It has such high attack that even with minimal investment it will be packing a huge punch. Yeah, brave birds can be annoying but they aren't clean kills on Armaldo who can ko swellow back with rock slide and braviary (unboosted) with Stone edge. I agree his typing isn't the best but he is the best spinner here, only rivaled by Torkoal really. This is something Wartortle wishes he could do, but maybe this isn't the right thread for arguing this, but you do have a point.

    The Riolu set is also interesting, becuase outside of Liepard, it is one of the most annoying Pokemon in NU which can cause so many ragequits. It's too bad it is one of the niche Pokemon that isn't very awesome outside of being annoying and many players tend to gravitate towards more offensive playstyles.
  25. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Alright having looked at that set Punchshroom posted, Protect definitely seems like the best option for the 4th slot. Being able to scout a Taunt and Copycat it back really helps Riolu get momentum rolling with Roar spamming. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll post it here for others to see:

    Riolu

    [​IMG]
    Set: CopyDog
    @ Eviolite
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Roar
    - Copycat
    - Protect
    - Drain Punch

    Does what all Riolu should be doing in Copycat Roar spamming. With Stealth Rock and Spikes up it can chain Roars and is capable of slowly killing an opponent's team with residual damage. Of course this set is completely useless unless you have hazards support, and requires skill to try to get around priority. Even if paired with a Stealth Rock and Spikes user, the battle with Riolu is not already won. Since Riolu will usually be that team's win condition being able to find the freedom to set up your hazards and having ways to keep them off the field are completely essential. Without proper playing offensive pressure or a powerful Rapid Spinner such as SmashKoal can easily ruin the strategy.

    Protect on this set relieves some of the burden placed on Riolu's shoulders as it allows it to scout for Taunt and Copycat it back with Prankster priority, allowing for the dog to get some some Roar chains. Even with Protect, Skuntank is #1 enemy to teams revolving around this strategy as it can Taunt and Sucker Punch Riolu to break apart Roar chains and potentially Poison Jab poison Riolu to wear it down very quickly. Skuntank is even capable of Pursuit trapping the team's Spinblocker allowing for even the weakest of Rapid Spinners such as Staryu and Defensive Armaldo to remove hazards from the field.

    EDIT: @Sickweare Yes, Armaldo can use both Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock on the same set but it faces major problems when doing so: A mediocre Pokemon is taking on multiple roles and doing them poorly. Armaldo is a poor Bird counter, a poor Stealth Rock user, and a poor Rapid Spinner. Without Swords Dance, max Attack, and Lum Berry/Life Orb it cannot break past Misdreavus and even if it does do ok damage to it with Rock Blast, (around 20%) the fact that its attempting to go for the Spin means that at least Stealth Rock is already up and it being forced out means Armaldo is even less likely to get the Rapid Spin off. (If just SR is up by the time Armaldo attempts to Spin it's already at 75% at most. Now that its being forced out by Missy it'll be at 50% at the most and Spinning is almost impossible) This is not even taking into mind Golurk, who is the more common Spinblocker on offensive teams. At least Wartortle can Foresight to get a guaranteed Rapid Spin against Frillish and Missy, while hitting Golurk with Scald.

    Armaldo is obviously much better at Spinning when the opponent doesn't have a Ghost-type Pokemon since there is nothing to stop it bar offensive pressure, but there are two key things about those situations. If the opponent has Spikes, they're definitely using a Ghost-type Pokemon to block the Spin and at the same time are applying constant offensive pressure that prevents Armaldo to do much with its multiple weaknesses, poor Speed, and lack of resistances. If the opponent has Stealth Rock only then Armaldo is not really all that useful anyways and just builds to your SR weakness.

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