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NFEs in the NU Tier

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Elegy96, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Armaldo's utility set isn't bad, but it can't get past most spinblockers. The SD set CAN break through most Ghost types, especially Golurk and Misdreavus. It's not like you should rely on Armaldo to be your single Flying check either.
  2. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Nothing so far? Well here's another candidate!

    Sneasel

    [​IMG]
    This thing has so much anti-metagame potential it's not even funny. Possessing the exact sweeper-esque stats as former NU star Cincinno (95 Attack and 115 Speed), Sneasel has brilliant dual STABs that strike much of NU for super effective damage. Sneasel can hit Golurk, Braviary, Gardevoir, Kadabra, Haunter, Sawsbuck, Exeggutor, Swellow, Rotom-S, Swoobat, Serperior, Musharna, Drifblim and other relevant fast and/or frail NU threats with Dark and Ice coverage alone, which if combined with coverage moves only expand this list. It's got the speed for the job and its attack respectable enough, but Sneasel, much like big bro Weavile, suffers from his biggest downfall: his moves aren't strong enough. When you're strongest attack is a boosted Pursuit or a full powered non-STAB Low Kick, things aren't looking swell. Banded Ice Punch may not OHKO Golurk and Braviary 100% of the time, and the amount of Psychics or Ghosts that can take an unboosted Pursuit are too numerous for your liking. Sneasel's fraility, susceptibilty to status and SR, as well as having crippling weaknesses does not help its revenge killing cause.

    That said, Sneasel can do a fantastic job at killing off what it needs to, albeit at the cost of losing to most everything else and not take a Mach Punch, much less a STAB neutral hit to save its life. Should Sneasel equip a Choice Band for much needed greater outright power, should it attempt a boosting set to truly take advantage of its wondrous STABs, or is there some other gimmick Pickpocket Sneasel set you know of that you're not sharing with us? Let us know!
  3. Nyara

    Nyara

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    Sneasel is O-K as a Cleanner and ocassional Revenge KOer, but that's pretty much all. Choice Scarf and Priority are so common that Sneasel offen fails at clean, anyway, so, there's not too much use, but he can deal good damage to the opponent's team and force some switches with the correct use, but it's weakness to Stealth Rock means you'll just be able to do that 4 times at most on the game without the help of a spinner.

    But, hey, he can switch-in against a Psychic and threat... with Pursuit or Bite... not even enough to OHKO Musharna or outspeed Choice Scarfer Gardevoir, but that's still something, I guess. Taking in account Sneasel is already outspeeding almost everything without a Choice Scarf, then you can forgoe it's speed, and give him some of special bulky (he can't take physical attacks), Life Orb, and Sword Dance, and as long you keep him far from Choice Scarfers and priority users, you'll do really great.
  4. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent how lonely is the night without the howl of the wolf
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    I recently battled SilentVerse in RU, and as you know he has a bug fetish. Gregor Samsa if I ever knew one. Anyway, he used an Anorith. I was pretty surprised at this, until I called up its stats. Apparently Anorith has a 75 base Speed, far faster than his evolution, and a very solid 95 base Attack. Its defenses are miserable of course, at 45 / 50 / 50, but nothing an Eviolite can't somewhat fix. However, you could even go a Scarf route with this little bugger. Anorith has the fastest Rapid Spin in NU after Staryu, but has an offensive presence to boot, including STAB Rock Blast and X-Scissor. Not to mention SR, like its older brother. What do you guys think? Obviously the main advantage to using it is its 75 base Speed to get a Spin off on slowmons though, but it can also use that nice STAB coverage to go on a minisweep his big brother probably couldn't.
  5. Fizz

    Fizz

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    I'm curious what you guys think about Darumaka. It's got a decent base 90 Attack which is augmented by Hustle, but not only that, it has a decent support movepool consisting of Encore, Roar, Wil-O-Wisp and U-turn. And with an Eviolite I think it can get fairly bulky. What do you guys think?

    Edit: Sample Set

    [​IMG]
    Darumaka (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 172 HP / 84 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Encore
    - Roar
    - Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
    - Superpower / Wil-O-Wisp

    Something like this? Haven't tested it out. Outspeeds min speed Tangela.
  6. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

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    hmmm it would depend on how hard it can actually hit can you put up some calcs? Not to mention slowpoke(if anyone ever uses it) can stop it cold

    speaking of slowpoke heres a set that could possibly work

    Slowpoke@ Eviolite
    Trait:Regenerator
    Nature: Bold
    Ev:252 hp/252 def
    -Scald
    -Icy Wind
    -Yawn
    -Protect
    It can take hits pretty well but will probably fall to very hard special attacks. I thought about calm mind to raise its spDef but wouldnt do very much. A resttalk set with calm mind and scald sounded good but again probably can set up to often and scald still wont hit hard. Icy wind is to start lowering opponents speed and hits the grass types that resist scald. Protect is for scouting and yawn is for phazing and works well with protect
  7. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    In the Smog #25, there's an article about NFE in NU, summarizing and describe very well what has been said in this topic.
  8. Celever

    Celever

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    Mr. Muscle (Machoke) @ Eviolite
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - DynamicPunch
    - Bulk Up
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    No, the nickname is not compulsory, but copy and pasted from my main NU team is ResTalk Machoke, and it works better than you think. For a wall, the opponent being confused is always nice, but you usually don't want to give up a spot for confuse ray. As such, I have dynamic punch to deal massive damage and confusion. "But dynamic punch has really low PP! You can't have that on a wall" Oftentimes Machoke will end up asleep from rest, and sleep talk takes off from sleep talk's PP and not from the move it chooses. With pretty nice bulk, it can actually completely wreck teams with some helpful sleep talk hax - no confusion needed. The only problem is the occasional struggle wars as well as the psychic oriented tier, however once you get rid of the psychic types you can bring machoke in as a sort of late-game sweepr which replaces the momentum you created with complete wreckage. Fair trade in my opinion.
  9. Constantinipple

    Constantinipple

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    I doubt that even with Eviolite, Machoke can be considered a wall. Throh utilizes a ResTalk set even better, benefitting from better bulk, Guts while asleep and even a STAB phazing move in Circle Throw (which is only a bit weaker than DynamicPunch factoring in Guts), of which the damage can quickly add up with some hazard support, and prevents set up sweepers to set up when your luck betrays you. 'it can actually completely wreck teams'. Yeah. average PS ladder teams.
  10. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    The main problem with Slowpoke is just that's so terribly weak offensively. Scald is such a great move, and Psychic give you some nice coverage against random Fighting and Poison types (bar Skuntank), but you're forced to work off a base 40 SpA stat. To put this into perspective, a 252 SpA Modest Slowpoke only has as much power as an uninvested base 80 SpA Pokemon, so you can imagine that your uninvested SpA is going to be pitiful. Slowpoke's Atk stat is higher, but still low, and Aqua Tail just isn't as good on a defensive Pokemon as Scald would be. I guess Icy Wind is a neat utility to have, but the fact that you only 2HKO 0/0 Sawk 0.39% of the time with Psychic is really disappointing.

    It's a real shame, too, because a 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold Eviolite Slowpoke is a little more bulky on the physical side than physically defensive Skarmory, and it's still bulky enough on the special side to take a LO Shadow Ball from Timid Gardevoir with a little health to spare. It also has enough recovery between Regenerator and Slack Off that I really don't think it'd miss the Leftovers that much. If Slowpoke only had a higher SpA stat, I think he'd be a lot better. A base 75 or 80 SpA stat really should be too much to ask since Slowbro and Slowking are both wielding base 100 stats, but alas.

    The main problem with Machoke is trying to use it without being outclassed by Gurdurr, and I honestly feel that Gurdurr just outclasses this set as a Bulk Up user. Machoke has better special bulk and a bit more speed, but that's about it. Gurdurr has a bit more power and considerably more physical bulk, which can come in handy. For example, Gurdurr can actually survive a Jolly CB Braviary's Brave Bird after a Bulk Up with health to spare, while KOing back with Ice Punch if Braviary switched into Stealth Rock. Machoke can do a lot of damage back with DynamicPunch, but it's also OHKOd 57% of the time by Brave Bird. Gurdurr also has a means of healing itself via Drain Punch, alleviating the need for RestTalk (which is pretty bad in 5th Gen, especially if you're not abusing Guts or something). Not to mention that if Machoke want to take advantage of its one decent niche (No Guard DynamicPunch), it has to give up the potential power boost of Guts, which Gurdurr does not have to worry about. There's also Gurdurr's access to Mach Punch, which gives it an additional weapon against some fast opponents. Honestly, I don't see much of a reason to use this over Gurdurr (which is a shame, because No Guard DynamicPunch is still pretty darn cool).
  11. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Speaking of Machoke, I've been running a quite effective set that uses two of the main points that differ the overly mainly Pokemon from Gurdurr: DynamicPunch and Encore:

    [​IMG]

    Set: Sub + Encore
    @ Eviolite
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - DynamicPunch
    - Payback
    - Encore

    Because DynamicPunch forces switches quite often it's rather easy to set up a Substitute (no recovery sucks). From there, spam DynamicPunch while you can. Payback is for Ghost- and Psychic-types mainly, but it also hits things like Butterfree. Encore is a great move against things that think they can set-up on Machoke, mainly a pink Psychic pig known as Musharna. With Encore and under a Sub, Machoke can trap Musharna in CM / Moonlight and if opponent don't switch, keep using Payback (it'll always do miserable damage, but opponent always stays thinking s/he'll be stronger after a few CMs. And no Musharna I ever faced never attacked Machoke under a Sub). I use this Machoke as a core with Skuntank, because Encoring things like Gardevoir and Haunter is rather easy (under a Sub of course, or they'll destroy Machoke). Skuntank then can Pursuit trap those Pokemon on the switch. Machoke will also appreciate Wish support from those like Alomomola, Gardevoir and Hypno since he have no way to Recover health. And since Machoke forces lots of switches, entry hazards makes him more fearsome.

    And I know that Machoke is slow as hell, DynamicPunch has 8 PP and it can't pass through not Fighting-weak physically defensive Pokemon without confusion hax, but IMO this is the only thing Machoke can do that Gurdurr and other Pokemon can't do better since ts main set is outclassed by Throh.
  12. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

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    A Machoke set without any recovery is not that great of an idea period. As with the likes of Braviary running around if you dont have a Sub you finished. Besides they will probably switch out to something else if the notice a) you have just locked them into a Physcic move b)you have a dark type pokemon c) that they KNOW your going to switch as they are locked into the Physcic move. So that being said unless you decide to use another sub after your encore there going to put your dark type in a bad situation
  13. Celever

    Celever

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    I never even thought of Thro, it crossed my mind never.
    So yeah, I'll change it to that now! ;)
  14. Constantinipple

    Constantinipple

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    hold on, this is an NFE tread, so refrain from posting non NFEs here. also, Sweet Jesus invented a BU set if i recall correctly, ill edit this when i found it.

    edit: found it, he even used ice punch over sleep talk.
  15. DragonBorn

    DragonBorn

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    you said to keep this about NFEs lol anyways

    A rest bulk up set on Machoke could work like this

    Machoke@Eviolite
    Trait: No Guard
    Nature: Adamant
    Ev: 252 Atk / 252 Hp
    -Bulk Up
    -Dynamic Punch
    -Rest
    -Sleept talk

    theoreticaly it could work but ghost types ,and possibly poison and flying types, need to be dealt with by teammates. Rapardos could work as it has Crunch , Stone Edge and Earthquake to deal with all of those types.
  16. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
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    encore machoke actually sounds quite cool and better than whatever sets we actually have on-site. it still has a multitude of issues, namely the ones you pointed out - lack of pp and inability to actually beat defensive walls (since they really can just switch out and take your dpunches effortlessly) seem to be the major issues. running something like toxic > payback might be worthwhile, though it means you're a sitting duck against haunter (but you're running it alongside skuntank anyway, so it's good!). you could also pair it up with something that can set tspikes, though you're stacking a gardevoir weakness that way.

    i dont think resttalk machoke is better than sub + encore - actually, i dont really see what good it actually does, especially in comparison to golurk / gurdurr. also, saying that the opponent will catch on and outplay you is not a reasonable argument for whether or not something is good or bad. that's an argument for your skill in playing pokemon.
  17. TailsTheeFox

    TailsTheeFox

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    Ah, so this is here, but how about we put the other bug, the one that can dish out the pain that it can take.

    [​IMG]
    Swadloon @ Eviolite
    Trait: LeafGaurd/Chlorophyll
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 252 Def / 252 SpDef /4 H
    -Synthesis
    -Calm Mind
    -Camouflage
    -Air Slash/Bug Buzz/Solar Beam

    Before dismissing this, one should take a quick glance at Swadloon's base Defense and SpecDefense with no EV's: D-216 SD-196. Add the EV's and then Evolite's boosting powers and you have a wall that can take a super effective Ice Beam from a Ludicolo and then hit back with a Air Slash. His bulk is really that impressive. Bug/Grass isn't the best defensive typeing, and Swadloon knows it-so it can change into a ground type when things might be bad. Unless you have Trick Room support, you have to predict with Camouflage(which with any other pokemon, it's just a terrible move, but it's one of Swadloon's most useful), but it's worth it to get a ground type that has self recovery(that gets a boost in sun), can strike grass types with a special flying type move, and can use Calm Mind. One moment it takes a Giga Drain easily, than the next it takes a Brave Bird.

    Which is the whole purpose of Swadloon, to take hits and return fire. Why Air Slash should be used over Bug Buzz is simple, offensively bug typeing stinks and flying is better in NU for offensive. Using the ever important camo gets rid of the stab boost from Bug Buzz and Air Slash has a chance for the hack gods to smile upon this guy and deliver a crit.

    Of course, not all is peachy for'em. He's slow, and with the power of what everyone's stabs are, he goes down from a 4xBravebird or a fire type attack, with a low chance of surviving most fire type attacks being tossed around.
    His two abilities are preference, he'd fit onto a sunny day team if you can get him to be able to switch his typing fast enough(which in that case you can roll with the Solar Beam) and then you'd have a ground type that can heal his health completely, strike with instant solar beam, and CM boost himself...

    If you're running with him to just be a tank, don't go for the speed boost ability as he's better getting Trick Room support and Sunny Day teams are not very common in NU right now.
    iliekmudkipz123456789 likes this.
  18. bobbyvaporeon

    bobbyvaporeon

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    Porygon @ Eviolite
    Ability: Analytic
    EVs: 252 Hp, 252 Special Attack, 4 Speed
    Tri Attack
    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Recover

    Think of it as the NU Porygon-2. Commonly known as a top LC threat, Porygon can work well with help in NU. With Fantastic Coverage in it's 3 moves, as well as recovery, Porygon can act as a great tank. Even with Fighting-types everywhere, Porygon can easily take a Drain Punch from Gurrdurr. Pairing it with a Ghost type like GOlurk makes for great offensive synergy. While Porygon isn't the most powerful, it is a great tank in the NU meta.
  19. SaurusHam

    SaurusHam

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    [​IMG]
    Nidorina (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Hone Claws
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Double Kick/sucker punch
    - Poison Jab

    Iv'e used this nidorina as a reliable toxic spiker numerous times and with the decent bulk allowed by eviolite it has many opportunities to set them up. With hustle and hone claws nidorina actually begins to hit pretty hard for something whose sole purpose is to set up entry hazards. The moves of choice are poison jab for stab and double kick for steels who wall poison jab, but you can also opt for sucker punch if you so desire.
  20. Burnside

    Burnside

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    A more defensive tank build can be used as well, which will give it even more survivability against special attackers, though of course at the cost of direct offensive pressure:
    [​IMG]
    Porygon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
    -Toxic
    -Recover
    -Discharge
    -Icebeam

    [​IMG]
    Lampent @ Eviolite
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Nature: Quiet
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    -Trick Room
    -Fire Blast
    -Shadow Ball
    -Energy Ball/Memento

    or

    Lampent @ Eviolite
    Trait: Flash Fire
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
    -Substitute
    -Pain Split
    -Shadow Ball
    -Fire Blast

    In response to the recent shift, specifically with the loads menacing Scolipedes and Primeapes that seem be ubiquitously present Lampent is a great choice. While its stats suggest that it should be quite frail, with Eviolite and HP investment the little lantern is able to take a few hits and put a number of sets to good use (The first set can take three Punishments from Primeape, though it does have to watch out for Stone Edge, especially on sets that aren't choiced). The first set that I've listed is the set that I'm currently running on my Trick Room team. Lampent has been a fairly reliable pokemon to set up Trick Room and support sweepers by dealing out a bit of damage itself. Memento can be used facilitate an ever valuable safe-switch for a Trick Room sweeper as well. The second set is better for teams that aren't Trick Room, and also uses Lampent's relative bulk to dish out healthy damage from Base 95 Fire Blasts. Will-o-Wisp and Taunt are also available for sets that require more utility.

    [​IMG]
    Zweilous @ Choice Band
    Trait: Hustle
    Nature: Brave
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Hp / 4 SpD
    -Outrage
    -Crunch
    -Fire Fang/ Ice Fang/ Superpower
    -Sleep Talk

    or

    Zweilous @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Hustle
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    -Outrage
    -Crunch
    -Superpower/ Fire Fang/ Ice Fang
    -Sleep Talk

    This little hustler, Zweilous features the strongest Outrage in the game (trumping even Rayquaza). The first set synergies nicely with the Trick Room Lampent set as Lampent can take the bug and ice moves that normally threaten Zweilous, as well as dispense of steel types that prevent Zweilous from sweeping. With a Choice Band attached Zweilous's STAB, Hustle Outrage OHKOs most pokemon in the metagame. Crunch is present for the second STAB move, which is great in a metagame rampant with Psychic types. However, one thing to consider when looking at Zweilous as a Trick Room sweeper is that Hustle reduces the accuracy of its moves, meaning that there is only a 51% chance that Outrage will hit three times in a row (the length of a Trick Room sweeping period). The second attempts to cure Zweilous's speed problem rather than embrace it. It can be successful if speedier threats are dealt with first. Fire Fang allows Zweilous to take on steel types, usually in the form of Metang, that often counter it. While, Ice Fang allows it to dispense of Torterra.
  21. MarshallLeRoy

    MarshallLeRoy

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    Have you tested Flame Body on Lampent? Obviously the 30% burn rate requires some luck so it may not always be dependable, but given the lack of powerful fire type attacks seen commonly in the tier (much less fire type Pokemon), the ability for Lampent to cripple a Primeape U-turning out or a Scolipede going for a Megahorn seems like a great risk to take.
  22. SceptileObliterate

    SceptileObliterate

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    Ivysaur @ Eviolite
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Hp, 252 Special Defense, 4 Special Attack
    Giga Drain
    Leech Seed
    Toxic
    Synthesis

    it elimates toxic spikes, synthesis's off a overheat from a specs zebstrika and if you swap the evs to make it physically bulky it is a good sawk counter. However if you dont get off a leech seed or are unable to synthesis you might be in trouble i.e. any other grass/poison type walls it - but thats why there are 6 team slots ;)
  23. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

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    Cool set, but why this thing over Roselia, who has much more special bulk?

    EDIT: Oops, nevermind, they have the same Special Defense.
  24. Burnside

    Burnside

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    I haven't tested Flame Body, but that's a great point! Normally I use Flash Fire to absorb Flamethrowers from Eelektross, and of course it comes in handy when the odd Rapidash or Overheat from a specs zebstrika shows up, but I think with the recent shift trying out Flame Body is something to seriously consider. I'll report back if I find some time to test it in the near future.
  25. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Interesting set. Ivysaur has always been something I've wanted to test. Though, I think most people would default back to Roselia, who has more utility with its access to Spikes and its considerably higher Special Attack. Though, Ivy's Defense and HP are higher, which is a perk it has over the rose. But, I still like the set a lot :)

    It was mentioned above that there aren't many good fire types in the tier (hell, two of the more notable ones are NFE). I have a set that I have tested, and find it to work well with the proper support, which is made easier with the recent changes in the meta.

    [​IMG]
    Pignite @ Eviolite
    Trait: Blaze (not sure if Thick Fat is released, so that if it has been.)
    EVs: 236 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature

    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar
    - Flame Charge / Flare Blitz

    Pignite's good HP and Attack, with passable defenses with Eviolite, and access to Roar screamed to me to make a ResTalk set. The EVs patch up his sketchy Special Defense and give a little boost to his Flame Charges. Roaring foes out and about is a huge plus with Scolipede in the meta, and Fire- typing gives him a resist to Bug- and Grass- type attacks, which is helpful in this meta. This set really wants to avoid Water- type attacks of any kind, as well as most physical hits Pignite doesn't resist. Flare Blitz can be used over Flame Charge if you like extra power and plan on staying in often.

    I also have another set (if that's allowed :P). I introduce...

    Grovyle

    [​IMG]
    Grovyle @ Grass Gem / Flying Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature

    - Leaf Blade
    - Swords Dance
    - Brick Break / Substitute
    - Acrobatics / Rock Slide / X-Scissor

    This is very similar to big bro Sceptile's SD set up in RU. Grovyle's excellent speed and subpar attack make him perfect for using Swords Dance. The EVs and nature enhance Grovyle's sweeping stats, with a Jolly nature elevating his great speed to a dizzying 317 before Unburden. Leaf Blade and Swords Dance are the crux of the set, allowing Grovyle to stick it to many bulky Water types and many common leads, especially if you use the Grass Gem. Brick Break can be used to bust Steel- Types, which are a problem to the set, but Steel- types are not common in the tier, and can be easily covered by other members of the team. This would allow you to run a sub and ease prediction and protect Grovyle from status. Acrobatics vs. Rock Slide is hard, as Acrobatics is great for hitting opposing Grass- types and Bug- types, but Rock Slide hurts said Bug- types, as well as Flying- types that trouble the set. Acrobatics works infamously well with Unburden, however, gaining much power is very useful in conjunction with the speed boost. X-Scissor is also an option to hit Grass- types and Psychic- types, but Grovyle has issues finding a spot to put it.

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