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NFEs in the NU Tier

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Elegy96, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. saucemonkey1

    saucemonkey1

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    This thread interested me so much I decided to create an account!

    Carvanha
    [​IMG]
    Set: Band
    @Choice Band
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EV's: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Sp. Atk)
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Return/Double-Edge
    - Ice Fang

    Being banned from LC, one can see why this little guy was feared far and wide by 1st stage Pokemon everywhere. Speed Boost really makes this set viable, along with Choice Band to augment it's fairly good attack (for an NFE.) In order for Carvanha to succeed, however, one needs to ensure that it gets at least one boost from Speed Boost if you don't want it to get revenge killed very easily. Works best as a late game sweeper, taking out its counters before sending it out so that it isn't as easily walled. All of the moves are pretty self explanatory, Waterfall and Crunch being the STAB options, with Return/Double-Edge as a powerful neutral attack. Ice Fang isn't very powerful, but rounds coverage nicely, and to be honest Carvanha doesn't really have many more options other than Zen Headbutt. Other sets are available, namely a Protect set that guarantee's a Speed Boost, but they do not have the power to really be usable.
  2. sickweare

    sickweare

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    Very cool set! It could definitely carve a niche as a powerful speed booster. However with the set given, he won't be able to get much speed boosting thanks to his low initial speed and the lack of Protect. This makes him very susceptible to faster threats, and frankly, most anything will KO him. If you are going to be using Carvanha, your best option would to use Life Orb over Choice Band, and switch Protect for one of the moves (Return most likely). It is also unfortunately outclassed by Basculin who has more immediate speed, power, and better coverage with Superpower in his movepool. He also sports better bulk, which isn't saying much.

    All in all, it is a cool set, but it doesn't really have the ability to make itself a solid spot here. More power to you though!
  3. Nyara

    Nyara

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    Outclassed by Basculin? I don't think so, Carvanha can on first place to have higher speed than Basculin, so, it's less prone to being revenge-killed by Choice Scarfers, and thus, only making priority viable against Carvanha, the second point in favor of Carvanha is the fact that it's Dark Type, thus, you can switch-in on any psychic attack and inmediatly threat them with an STAB Crunch that doesn't have Basculin. Basculin doesn't have Ice Fang, either, so, it does have poorest coverage against Grass and stuff.

    Basculin's Waterfall punchs higher, but Carvanha punchs higher to anything weak to Dark and resistant to Water, generally, Carvanha also have some switch-in possibilities because it's type. So, it depends of what are you finding, at the end.

    As suggestions go, I could rather suggest an Life Orb set or Focus Sash Set, with Life Orb you can put Protect on place of Return, giving you always 1+ of Speed, and making you able to clean the game better by just selecting the best coverage move. Focus Sash by other hand needs support to keep hazards away from the field, but if your team actually does that, then you can give it a Focus Sash, you'll always win 1+ of speed in that way, and at the same time giving a free turn to destroy any priority user that could be still alive.

    With Focus Sash, you can forgoe Return for Rain Dance (there're priority users alive? If not, setup Rain Dance and spam Waterfall), or Aqua Jet if you think you'll need the extra punch at finishing priority users, or Torment; to make some mono-attack walls unnable to attack you when Carvanha comes to revenge kill. Taunt can also be used if you're really needing it for your team.

    Anyway, both, Basculin and Carvanha should only be used as late-game cleanners and on few times as revenge killers, because they need the extermination of priority users in order to work, and of preference, walls already destroyed or weakeneed good enough. Carvanha can work at some degree as a counter to Psy's because it's inmunity, ability, and STAB Crunch, but that's still somewhat gimnicky, but works. Basculin also need's the extermination of Choice Scarfers in order to work as cleanner; Carvanha doesn't need it always, but it can help him, too.
  4. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Carvanha's Psychic type immunity is worthless against the two most powerful Psychic types of the tier, Gardevoir and Kadabra, if they aren't choice-locked into Psychic (and if they are, they would switch out to something like Gurdurr since Carvanha does not have Pursuit).
    Both psychic types initially outspeed and threaten to OHKO with their coverage moves, like Thunderbolt, Signal Beam, Energy Ball or Hidden Power [Fighting].
  5. sickweare

    sickweare

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    @Nyara
    The Dark STAB can be useful against choice locked psychics, but they will just switch into something that will take the hit. Carvanha does lack the speed that Basculin has and loses out on 2 base points in the attack STAT. Since many teams carry Sawk or Gurdurr, Carvanha will have a hard time sweeping. I'm not saying it's not good, I'm just saying it is outclassed by Basculin (who also has a neat ability with Adaptability). Then agan, I am the one who posted the Marill set..
  6. saucemonkey1

    saucemonkey1

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    @sickweare & Nyara
    Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I've been throwing around sets in my mind for a while for NFE Pokemon and I tend to gravitate towards using Pokemon whom are often left alone because they're "useless." If the Carvanha set seemed underwhelming, that's because it is and shouldn't be used seriously unless you really like using forgotten Pokemon. That being said, I do have more sets that I'd like to throw out, a few that would actually be viable in the NU metagame!

    Electabuzz
    [​IMG]
    Set: Offensive
    @Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    EV's: 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk) or Modest Nature (+Sp. Atk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Volt Switch

    Electabuzz has always been pretty cool. Ever since Gen. 1, I can remember always wanting one on my team, and there was good reason too. Nowadays, many people see Electabuzz as nothing more than a throwaway or a bulky electric (which he is thanks to Eviolite) but what makes an offensive Electabuzz so worth while is the fact that out of all of the Electric types in NU, he has the best combination of Speed and Power. His base Speed is 105, unusual in its own right, but allowing even a non Scarfed Electabuzz to out speed many Pokemon in NU with a Timid Nature. The Choice Scarf is usually the preferred item, allowing Electabuzz to come in and revenge kill fairly easily late game. However, many people don't expect a Choice Specs set, which will not only take out many of Electabuzz's counters given good prediction skills, such as Golurk, Dragonair and Marowak, but will be able to keep punching holes in teams given the opportunity. The moves are all fairly simple, Volt Switch keeping momentum, Thunderbolt being the STAB move of choice, HP Ice taking out many of Electabuzz's would be counters and Focus Blast rounding coverage nicely. All in all, Electabuzz is definitely worth a look if you need a strong, fast Electric type on your team!


    Clamperl
    [​IMG]
    Set: Shell Smash
    @DeepSeaTooth
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EV's: 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Grass/Electric
    - Shell Smash

    Despite the joke set on its strategy page, Clamperl is actually a very usable Pokemon as long as it gets a Shell Smash boost. Reaching ungodly power with just one Shell Smash, Clamperl is capable of feats that no NFE Pokemon should ever be capable of, including being able to OHKO a majority of the NU metagame with its great coverage and massive Sp. Atk stat. The only thing that stops Clamperl at that point is a very fast Pokemon, a Choice Scarfer, or a priority move, which shouldn't be a problem as long as you're able to get rid of them before attempting a boost for Clamperl. Unfortunately, Clamperl will be taken down with a single hit, and he doesn't exactly have the greatest speed even after a Shell Smash boost, so it's a high risk high reward scenario that should only be played with if you are extremely familiar with the workings of NU and are able to predict very well.
  7. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    The problem with Clamperl is in fact how hard it is to actually get the Shell Smash off. Even if you manage to get off a Shell Smash, Clamperl still holds a terrible 32 base Speed stat and only reaches 358 Speed at +2 with a Timid nature. This means that it's very easy to revenge kill with any Choice Scarf Pokemon or some of the faster Pokemon such as Serperior and Swellow, if it magically manages to boost up. Another reason to not use Clamperl is that Gorebyss is in NU as well. While Gorebyss doesn't hold the same brute power as DeepSeaTooth Clamperl is holds much more bulk and a better base 52 Speed stat. Gorebyss's vastly superior bulk allows it to set up much easier and by the time that Gorebyss comes in for the boost in the late game, opposing Pokemon are worn down enough that Gorebyss is capable of cleaning up rather well.
  8. Nyara

    Nyara

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    Use Protect, oh, wow, now you're faster! Otherwise it's a bad idea, granted. Slow Psychic Pokémon are still strugling, tought.
  9. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Yeah, it works against Musharna and Duosion. But yet, it can't really switch in on those powerful psychic types as they likely carry SE moves (and isn't Musharna bulky enough to survive a Crunch anyway?). Protect works though, but not as well as it wants to because Carvanha does not have Pursuit, and therefore, Gardevoir and Kadabra will just switch out and let the team's fighting type deal with it. Grass- and Bug-types can also deal with Carvanha, especially if they resist one of Carvanha's STAB moves (Pokémon which resist both while being capable of dealing SE damage, aren't present in NU, as far as I know).
    That being said, Carvanha will only work if the opposing team is sufficiently weakened.
  10. Nyara

    Nyara

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    It's still granting you a free switch, and even a free speed boost, and sometimes (if they try to attack you when you're protecting), a free turn to attack, so, that's what counter means at the end. It's not too hard to predict a Psychic as they rarely use it's coverage unless it's target resist's Psychic (and coverage moves are rarely used for over-prediction as they don't doesn't do the enough damage). If your opponent is smart and know of beforehand the type of Carvanha, they will think two times before spaming Psychic, so, you can use it for your favor with the rest of your team, you're winning on each way, anyway.
  11. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    Knowing that we are talking about a pokemon not too used and purely defensive, I propose a new set, this time attacking, based on the attack still decent and trusting its natural resistances to many types, trying to surprise the opponent.

    Metang

    [​IMG]

    Metang @ Life Orb
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Return/Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch
    - Zen Headbutt


    The spreads Evs (208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd) are attempt to maximize the attack without underestimating HP and trying to raise as much as possible the speed.Life Orb is the tool to increase the attack, it does not matter in this case the loss of some HP.
    Return/Body Slam may be the choice for a normal STAB move, with Earthquake Metang can hit for considerable damage Fire- and Electric- type.
    Zen
    Headbutt is to ensure a Psychic-type STAB, very useful against many pokèmon-types and with the possibility of the opponent flinch.
    For the last slot, Bullet Punch might be good to take advantage of its priority and finish pokèmon short of hp.
  12. Nyara

    Nyara

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    I could rather use Meteor Smash on place of Return, why? Meteor Smash gets STAB, making it 50% more powerful, and it does have a nice secondary effect for the set, too, and if we take into consideration that the combo of Zen Headbutt + Meteor Smash is only resisted by Klang, Mawlie, Wormadam-S, and opposing Metang, then there's not need to use Return as coverage, actually, even if you misspredict and the opponent switch-in into a resisted hit, you're only losing the 25% of power in that circunstance.

    Also, taking in account the low power that have Metang and not awesome bulky (less with Life Orb), then you may want to add Explosion to the mix on place of Earthquake, as Explosion will always do more damage than Earthquake, and Metang really needs something to ensure an extra K.O or damage help (but Meteor Smash is still doing more damage to Rock Type Pokémon, so, beware of that).

    Anyway, If the Explosion idea if not of your like, then you can try with a screen (Reflect, Light Screen) to help the team or with Hone Claws to improve it's attack and make Meteor Smash 100% accurate.
  13. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    But Gurdurr, Sawk and the likes do the same to you. They force you out. So yes, you have a free turn (and not if you mispredict and use Protect while the Psychic type switches out). So do you win? I doubt it. Yes, you have the momentum for a turn, but if the opponent's fighting type has a significant amount of health, the momentum swings right back to your opponent.

    Besides, the coverage moves of Gardevoir and Kadabra are both dangerous enough with their high SpA stats.

    I agree with you about Metang, though.
  14. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    Metang definitely has no reason to run Normal moves. Yes, I mean Explosion too, because not just the nerf, but Metang really shouldn't be killing itself off like that. I also don't like Life Orb on it: it's boosted Attack is average at best (physical Galvantula is stronger XP), and you're shortening the lifespan of a slow pokemon with no means of recovery. It's like you're using a much weaker Rampardos with better defensive typing but worse offensive typing (Heck, they even share many of the same moves!).

    Metang's niche is to take on Normal/Flying types, as well as other (preferably physical) attacks that he resists with impunity and set up/strike back. It's not that a good a niche, but it's what it does best. This Metang will simply not survive long enough, much less survive at all should it forgo Eviolite for Life Orb or any other item for that matter, meaning its inability to hold Light Clay implies that other pokemon do Dual Screens better. Also, Hone Claws Metang? Let me ask, how many pokemon can you usually take out per match? The issue with sluggish speed and no recovery remains (which is why Nasty Plot Beheeyem is only average, if only because it's insanely powerful, which Metang isn't), meaning Metang shouldn't really try boosting.
  15. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    Thanks Nyara for suggestions.
    However I was told it's an attempt to build something different. Meteror Mash is the best solution, but that was just the attempt to be useless the likely opponent switch (and perhaps Body Slam, is better). About Explosion,I will try to still alive Mustang after the attack. And so Reflect and Light Screen are properly defensive moves for team, indeed mentioned on set "official".
  16. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    lol

    Anyway, Dual Screens aren't bad, but the "official" set also mentioned its shortcomings (hence why it's not on the main set). It's just that other pokemon that can actually hold Light Clay do the job better such as Gardevoir, Serperior, and Ampharos. The former two have greater speed and Taunt, while the latter has good bulk and Volt Switch. Garde and Amphy even have Heal Bell. There isn't much Metang can do that distinguishes itself from these Dual Screeners aside from Normal/Flying resistance....oh wait, Solrock. Yeah.
  17. Nyara

    Nyara

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    I just did mentions to improve the set without chaging it at all, I obviously know that Metang will be unnable to do so much with Life Orb... but if he wants to take advantage of it's type and use a gimnnicky set, then I could say not, as Metang is already somewhat outclassed on a huge number of roles. At the end what I wanted to say is: Return or Body Slam doesn't have any, but any use on the set, and if you're using Life Orb, then I don't think you'll mind to explode it when it's about to expire, Hone Claws also increse the power of Explosion and accuracy of Meteor Smash, so, it does have a certain synergy, niche, a pretty bad niche, but at the end a niche.

    Steel may not be a good offensive type at all, but it strangely have perfect coverage with it's Psychic type, so, it does not need any other attack at all

    If you really wants to Body Slam things, use Eviolite with max inversion on it's defenses, and use it as a sort of ParaShuffler Wall while using other support moves.

    @Aasgier: Counter means you can switch-in to it, threat it, and defeat it or make it flee, what happens later of it is just not a concern as your opponent can also counter your counter, and you can counter him's counter to the oblivion, or until the hazards make it's effect. Carvanha can almost flawless switch-in against Psychic Pokémon, inmediatly threat the slower, and Protect and threat the fasters or rack up hazard damage to the switch, or you can just attack right away your counter and leave it to the range of revenge killing or of other cleanners. It is a counter, and because it is then it threat Psychic Types of use it's STAB too freely.

    Also, Carvanha should be used more as a cleanner (like Basculin), that means that it's counter should be already removed or weakneed good enough to leave Carvanha to eat them, so, it can really take use of it's inmunity to comes like a counter on place of just revenge killing like Basculin.
  18. saucemonkey1

    saucemonkey1

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    Shelgon
    [​IMG]
    Set: Restalk
    @Eviolite
    Ability: Overcoat
    EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -Sp. Atk)
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Behold, the bulkiest Dragon type that NU has to offer! Tanking physical hits with ease (only taking 45% - 53% from a Close Combat from Choice Banded Sawk), Shelgon is a master of Defense and can also strike back with it's own boosting move, Dragon Dance. Typically, Shelgon gets at least one Dragon Dance before being forced to rest, if not more due to its massive bulk, and then is able to throw Outrage's like there's no tomorrow. Best of all, Outrage cannot lock Shelgon or confuse it if used by Sleep Talk, so you won't have to worry about that drawback. With Rest completely restoring its health, Shelgon has some major longevity in a match, and can easily come into physical attacks without worry. The only thing that resists Outrage are Steel types, and because they aren't very abundant in NU, Shelgon can usually get away with putting a dent in the opposing team when its time runs out. However, therein lies it's major weakness: Steel type. Even with a few Dragon Dance's under its belt, Shelgon will still do horrendously against Steel types, as well as very dedicated physical walls such as Alomomola and Tangela. Any super effective special attack will also rip Shelgon to shreds, so it is important to be able to know when to fold and switch out. While it may not be the best Dragon type in the Tier, he certainly is the most tenacious, and it would be unwise to write him off as not a threat.

    Clefairy
    [​IMG]
    Set: Calm Mind
    @Eviolite
    Ability: Magic Guard
    EV's: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stored Power
    - Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Hyper Voice
    - Softboiled
    - Calm Mind

    Clefairy is essentially a pint sized Clefable with better defenses (with Eviolite). It gets Clefable's excellent ability, Magic Guard, which stops it from being hurt by toxic, burn or hazard damage, which is a major plus when looking for any Pokemon to put on a team. With max Defense investments and Calm Mind, Clefairy can take hits from either end of the spectrum (as long as it isn't fighting type) and dish out very strong Stored Power attacks provided you had gotten at least a few Calm Mind boosts. Softboiled allows Clefairy to stay in the match much longer than anyone could anticipate, and couples nicely with its Eviolite/Calm Mind combo. The second attack is purely up to who you expect to be facing more often, with Ice Beam rounding coverage and hitting more things for neutral damage, Fire Blast taking out the pesky Steel types that think they can trample all over Clefairy, and Hyper Voice being the powerful STAB option. Be warned, however, that if you go for Hyper Voice, Steel types will completely wall Clefairy. Clefairy's major weaknesses is in it's low initial Sp. Defense stat, it's horrible speed and the fact that it is fairly hard to get a few boosts onto Clefairy. Most Fighting moves will demolish the little fairy, as will very strong Sp. Attacks without a Calm Mind boost, and unless you run Fire Blast you can bet that Steel types are a major pain in Clefairy's backside. However, Clefairy does carve a niche for itself as a durable, if not slow, and decent attacker that may be of some major use if you're able to get a few Calm Mind Boosts onto it.
  19. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    Gotherita

    [​IMG]

    Crorita
    Item: Eviolite
    Ability: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Nature: Bold
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Psychic

    Gotherita does have a niche over the other psychic sweepers in the tier (ie Musharna & Gardevoir), Shadow Tag lets Gotherita trap her target, usually a wall that can't do much damage to you ie, Alolomola, while you set up to + 6 SpA & SpD with the chance to take down 2 or more pokemon. OR you can just use her to take down certain walls that prevent the rest of your team from sweeping like Sawk for example. Gotherita doesn't care for dark type threats like Skuntank as much as other psyhics as long as she can get in trap and her traget and eliminate them she's done her job, anything else is a bonus.

    Slow U-turn and Volt Switch users make good partners for Gotherita as the momentum allows you to pick and choose which wall to target easier.
  20. Nyara

    Nyara

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    I could rather user Dark Pulse on place of Psychic, because Gothorita can be walled by a Dark Type if it does use mono-type Psychic, and it's more resisted than Dark, once you're on 6+ of Calm Mind, I don't think Gothorita will care at all about the STAB, but with the enough support it doesn't matter at all.

    I could rather change Sleep Talk with Substitute, actually, why? You can set up it before knocking the wall you're trapping, giving Gothorita a free turn and make a wonderful use of it's 6+ Calm Mind Psychic/Dark Pulse, Sleep Talk is not so necessary as you'll just rest to recover the damage and status from the wall you're abussing, for sleep talking Calm Mind you can do it anyway once you wake, and Gothorita can cause major troubles with 6+ Calm Mind + Free Substitute to the enemy than RestTalking, I think.
  21. Nyara

    Nyara

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    Jigglypuff
    [​IMG]
    Set: Disable
    @Eviolite
    Ability: Cute Charm
    EV's: 252 Def / 252 Sp. Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Disable
    - Protect
    - Perish Song
    - Wish

    Wigglytuff and Jigglypuff are the unique users of the combo Perish Song + Wish, and that's something that Clefairy or Clefable can't do, and they are also one of few viable users of Disable, as with the correct spread they can resists attack well enough and recover itself with Wish + Protect. Now, this set works simple: Switch Jigglypuff into any non-2+-boosted attack, Disable on the first turn, protect if you're unsure of the attack possibilities of your opponent, and if you're sure, then proceed to Wish and heal you with Protect, or Wish pass it, depending of your damage and the circunstances. Now Perish Song the most probably Switch and run out Wish Passing or just switching out and buying time with Protect, and with the correct prediction you'll have a free switch for any Pokémon and it can even be with Wish. As Jigglypuff will force some switches, it works a lot better with hazards support.

    Eviolite Jiggly is bulkier than Wiggly, so it does work better with Disable as Jiggly will not need to heal itself too offen as Wiggly needs, it may also bring some surprises, too. It can also do a combo of Disable + Perish Song + Switching to Gothorita, in order to trap to the end any threat and make the job of Gothorita to survive easier, but it's prone to fail by earlier switchs. Not a great niche, but it does have it's small, cute, somewhat surprising, and effective niche, just keep it far from figthers, Close Combat users, and Taunt/Badly Poison. You can forgoe Perish Song for Thunder Wave, but Jigglypuff is too slow for even outspeed some paralized Pokémon. Jigglypuff is always the best option as Wish Passer + Disabler on Trick Room teams because it's awful speed.
  22. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    I thought we were all here to try some new solution, without sneer others.

    Thanks a lot. Now I have clearer your suggestions. How you modify definitively, account of Zen Headbutt?
  23. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    I was amused by your mispelling, not ridiculing the suggestion.

    Zen Headbutt is interesting in that it can strike notable NU threats such as Garbodor, Roselia, Gurdurr and Sawk harder than any other move Metang has. The problem with Zen Headbutt is that it can't stop the aforementioned two from setting up hazards (albeit KOing them faster, but Roselia gets 2HKOed by Meteor Mash anyway provided max Attack. 2HKOing Garbo is nice though). Gurdurr can stand up to Zen Headbutt if it has attained enough Bulk Ups and repeatedly Drain Punches you, meaning Zen Headbutt only works in your favor if Gurdurr attempts to use Metang itself as setup fodder as opposed to pokemon before Metang. Zen Headbutt can brutalize Sawk, but not before Sawk strikes you hard/down first (and since Metang will be taking more hits than Sawk throughout the course of battle, this is likely).

    On the other hand, there's Earthquake. It handles Rock/Steel types much more reliably, as Metang could face off against them often in the lead spot (hitting Skuntank without Aftermath damage is nice too). You'd otherwise be in a stalemate position against Bastiodon (Mash's attack raises won't help against Roar), while Probopass can beat Metang with Earth Power, especially if it has Magnet Pull: this can be bad if there's Zangoose or Swellow on the opposing team. In a pinch, Earthquake can be used to take out an Electric-type such as Raichu, Electabuzz, Electrode and Zebstrika (look out for Overheat!). It should be noted that Steel-Ground coverage is resisted by a number of pokemon in NU, such as Swanna, Charizard, Rotom-S, Eelektross, Ludicolo, Emolga (:P), Mantine, and Pelliper. However let's be honest, Metang can't stand up to half these threats anyway, and Zen Headbutt does little to change that (except Emolga, but you know...).

    Earthquake is more target-specific than Zen Headbutt though, so you can use Zen Headbutt if it suits your taste.
  24. The Quasar

    The Quasar
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    You have to excuse me. I have missed that "horror mispelling". lol

    I think the real issue about Zen Headbutt also depends on Metang's composition/teammates. I would to do some attemps with
    Zen Headbutt and Earthquake at the same time as Meteor Smash. By the way, I had not seen so much about Metang it has told in pokè-leader's topic.

    Thanks a lot Punchshroom, your suggestions about Zen Headbutt could be useful on set official.
  25. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    That Metang set that was posted above just plain misses out on Metang's only niche in the metagame. Metang's decent bulk with Eviolite, access to Stealth Rock, and good resistances should be the only reasons to use Metang at all. Metang has a bad base 75 Attack and the power boost from Life Orb isn't worth it when you have to sacrifice bulk. Metang's lack power, bulk, and speed with that set make it an incredibly unreliable attacker and will hardly ever accomplish anything. I know that the point of that was to have a set that stands out from the normal defensive sets of the NFEs, but rather than forcing a support Pokemon to go on the defensive you can try to look for more NFEs that do well on the offensive. (Such as Haunter, Kadabra, Fraxure, and Klang) Metang is pretty decent with a Stealth Rock / Meteor Mash / Toxic / Filler set.

    That Jigglypuff set doesn't do anything. Without Mean Look, Perish Song just forces opponents out as Jigglypuff does absolutely nothing in the meanwhile. With Wish it could theoretically Perish stall without losing much health or give a teammate a free turn while passing a Wish, but there are certain things that don't actually work in practice. Using it to Perish stall doesn't amount to anything really other than just forcing a switch. Jigglypuff in the first place has terrible bulk even with Eviolite, so it will never be escaping scotch free. Using Perish Song + Wish on paper would allow you to bring a sweeper in to accept the Wish and get a free turn to set up as the opponent has to switch due to Perish Song, but in reality this is much harder than it sounds. Firstly Jigglypuff has to be able to survive 2 turns to Perish Song and then Wish without getting Taunted and second, the sweeper has to survive the incoming hit. Jigglypuff living 2 turns against NU's threats is already a miracle, but having to bring a frail sweeper in to take a hit would be pretty hard to do as well. Outside of that very specific role, it fails to do anything else.

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