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NFEs in the NU Tier

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Elegy96, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Celever

    Celever

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    Giga drain and synthesis seems kinda redundant. Also I would go with meganium over ivysaur for this set, who is a great mixed wall and learns all of the moves you listed, as well as nice offense so you can get enough HP drained back with giga drain, and could spread toxic around with dragon tail over synthesis.
    Just something to note, but ivysaur is pretty out-classed.
  2. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    celever is correct in that Ivysaur is completely outclassed by stuff like Roselia, Vileplume, Tangela, and Meganium. If you are going to post an NFE set, you should explain what possible niche the NFE has over the standards and even the less-than-standards. Ivysaur has no real advantage that I (or most people it seems) can see. The few aspects you mention are hardly an advantage since the similar Pokemon still do it better (along with having more utility overall). In fact, many of the more recent sets have this same problem, and need to be explained a bit more. Otherwise most NU players will just write them off as gimmicks.
  3. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    I'm pretty surprised Munchlax hasn't been posted, I'll post it later.
  4. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    Pikachu@ light ball
    252spa/252spe/4hp
    Timid
    Trait: Static
    ~Surf
    ~Hidden power [Ice]
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Substitute
    So you may be one of those people who think that pikachu sucks and should never be used. You are also one of those people who are completely wrong. Pikachu gets surf, and surf destroys camerupt, lairon, and even golurk thanks to light ball. Thunderbolt is obviously the stab of choice and destroys things that are weak to it. Hidden power ice rounds out the coverage being able to deal with altaria and other weakened dragons with ease. Substitute is just there for protection. This set has been working wonders for me and has saved me the game once when the opponent had a 4v1 situation. I killed all of his pokemon with pikachu lol. Don't underestimate pikachu because any team unprepared for this set will get wrecked. :]
  5. Infernis

    Infernis

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    Looks like the same set as the on-site, with Surf over Encore or Grass Knot. So, that being the focus of your set, let's take a look at it. Water is super effective against fire, ground, and rock. Rock/Ground Pokemon tend to be heavy enough that Grass Knot covers it, or else Thunderbolt deals enough anyway. Fire coverage would be fantastic, except that the arsenal of NU Kindlers consists of:

    Charizard - Thunderbolt does more, but Charizard will OHKO your Pikachu with pretty much anything, unless you have a sub.
    Torkoal - Pikachu gains a chance to OHKO Torkoal before rocks, but Torkoal can't take Thunderbolt anyway.
    Camerupt - The Surf OHKO is really really shaky. (18.75% without prior damage) Unless you hit it on the switch or while behind a sub, that Camerupt is going to wreck your Pikachu.
    ------------ (PU Cutoff)
    Flareon - Surf only has the barest chance (about 14%) to 2HKO defensive Flareon. Meanwhile, Flareon can OHKO back with Flamethrower.
    Rapidash - Rapidash is going first, and it will beat your Pikachu with almost any move. To be fair, Surf could OHKO on the switch while Thunderbolt could not.
    Combusken - Thunderbolt gets it anyway.
    ------------ (1% line)
    Monferno - Thunderbolt gets it anyway.
    Lampent - Surf gets a 2HKO, but so does Thunderbolt. Either way, Pikachu gets OHKO'd by Shadow Ball or Fire Blast.

    There are probably some exceptions amongst the rock/ground types, but I think there are advantages to both. (Either way, Pikachu isn't the electric type that I'd generally use if one was needed.)
  6. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Isn't Surf illegal on Pikachu in 5th Gen? You can't transfer Pokemon with HMs to 5th Gen games from 4th Gen games, so unless there's some 5th Gen Surf Pikachu event that I'm aware of, that set shouldn't even be usable. Even then, having Surf doesn't change the fact that Pikachu is still a very frail Pokemon that is outsped by several key Pokemon such as Scolipede, Haunter, Jynx, and Primeape. It's powerful, but it's going to have a hard time sweeping smoothly.
  7. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

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    Pikachu is a nice mon to use in the tier, but most people avoid it because of those garbage defenses it has. It can hit pretty hard with the light ball, but aside from that,Pikachu really can't run any other item on an attacking set, making Raichu the better choice. Also, why are you running static on Pikachu ? Its better to run lightingrod, because you get that attack boost if you can predict their Volt Switch or their Thunderbolt. Pikachu is pretty much hit hard by just about every physical and special move in the tier, so its not gonna be living too much longer. One thing it does get over the other rodents and electric types is Extremespeed, allowing it to be able to be an effective revenge killer with that high priority if your opponent is at low HP. But other than that, there are better NFE's to use is this tier, like maybe you could try a Magnemite, but I am not even sure if that would work.

    Also, Pikachu does not have much over other NFE's who can usually take more than 1 hit before they go down. Pikachu does have his perks, but over other NFE's he really does not have much.

    Also, to get sweeped by a pikachu, you have to be pretty bad at NU.
  8. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    Dude lightning rod is incompatible with surf and when I post sets it's because they work. Every pokemon has their flaws but a lot of teams are unprepared for this set. Give me a special attacking nfe in this tier that is an electric type that is faster and stronger than pikachu. Magnemite is garbage. Electabuzz is the only other good electric type nfe in the tier but even then it's not like vire is nu and plus pikachu has raw power.
  9. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    You're basing this completely on fire types. Grass knot is pretty shaky and gives fire types free switch ins. When u need grass knot to get a solid neutral hit on electric types it disappoints. You could argue that grass knot is better but surf has better coverage and can pick things off on the switch.
  10. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    It's useable on showdown so not sure. :/
  11. Infernis

    Infernis

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    Dude, I would take Electabuzz over Pikachu any day. It's faster, and it hits about as hard with a life orb. (Though many prefer eviolite for good reason.) Also, Electabuzz has way higher defenses even before eviolite. Plus you could just use a fully evolved 'mon like Specs Ampharos, which hits like a truck and still has good bulk. Eelektross can do anything to some degree; physical or special, choiced or boosting, and it's only held back by its speed. The Rotoms are almost as fast and hit pretty hard. Because of their non-dependence on Light Ball, you can even use a scarf with them.

    The fact of the matter is that if you're just using Pikachu for its raw power...

    252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 144-171 (44.44 - 52.77%) -- 23.44% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 178-211 (54.93 - 65.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 156-185 (48.14 - 57.09%) -- 90.63% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Raichu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 153-180 (47.22 - 55.55%) -- 74.61% chance to 2HKO

    You could do a little better. I hate to be Lieutenant Surge here, but you should consider using even Raichu instead. Not only is it faster, it can hit just as hard. It also has more bulk. Alternatively, it can make use of Nasty Plot more effectively since it has a high enough speed to potentially sweep. (Pikachu will be outrun by even non-scarf Jynx, for example. Raichu will not.)

    Swagnemite wins forever, by the way. Ain't nobody stalls like Swagnemite.

    EDIT: Of course I was factoring in only fire types by comparison. You don't use Grass Knot on an incoming fire type, you use Thunderbolt. Your set's difference is that it has surf to hit them slightly harder, though it misses out on several other types. Also, Grass knot will obviously disappoint you if you're going for a neutral hit on opposing electric types since it's not very effective. Hidden Power Ice will hit them harder anyway.
  12. Breadlightning

    Breadlightning

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    Here's a set I've used quite a bit in NU, and it's caught a lot of people off guard.

    Combusken

    [​IMG]

    Set: Pseudo-Double Dance
    @ Eviolite
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    -Protect
    -Swords Dance
    -Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
    -Sky Uppercut

    Because of the bulk gifted to it by Eviolite, Combusken will find a ton of opportunities to set up. It forces a good number of switches and can tank most neutral hits, giving it a chance to Swords Dance. And once it does, not much except priority attacks and the bulkiest of physical walls can stop it. This isn't a perfect set -- the ever-present Alomomola walls it even after a SD, and Aqua Jet is a big problem -- but I've found good success with it on more defensive teams as a late-game cleaner once hazards are up and the opponent's bulky Waters have been removed.
  13. tbrady94

    tbrady94

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    Here's a new one and my favourite pokemon, Poliwhirl!
    [​IMG]

    Poliwhirl @ Eviolite
    Ability: Water Absorb/Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Waterfall
    -Return
    -Belly Drum
    -Hypnosis

    Looking at Poliwhirl you wouldn't expect much, but this set which I used for some time can pack a real punch and break through teams when they least expect it. With it's 90 base speed Poliwhirl is fast enough to take out various foes, the key to using this set effectively though is switching in Poliwhirl at the correct time. One way of doing this is to lure in a water attack with another pokemon and then switch to Poliwhirl who can recover any entry hazard damage with water absorb, allowing it to fire off a hypnosis (not the most reliable but often will force a switch if it lands) or go straight for belly drum allowing it to hit max attack while the opponent likely makes a change on his side of the field. Waterfall and return provide a fair amount of coverage and hit pretty hard, the only other real option is brick break, but the extra power on return is far greater and important IMO. Setting up rain also makes Poliwhirl into a massive threat when using swift swim, boosting it to massive speed levels, and after a belly drum can destroy teams easily. Despite having obvious flaws in it's pitiful defences even with eviolite, (he's so weak) overall I would say give Poliwhirl a chance, I've never seen another one so it's bound to catch teams off guard and can easily wreck through teams in a huge swirly sweep.
  14. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    I would like to bring up Encore as a viable option over Hypnosis, allowing Poliwhirl to more reliably force switches against what it switches into (i.e. the Water moves its immune to, as well as Ice Beams and such.)

    Still, it's a cool set! I may have to try it out.
  15. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    Here's a good set for Sneasel

    Sneasel@ choice band
    ~Ice punch
    ~Ice shard
    ~Night slash
    ~Low kick
    It's a pretty hard priority hitter and is great for picking off weakened walls like Bastiodon, Misdreavus, and Tangela. It's also great if u have stealth rocks because then it could kill swellow with a banded ice shard. Torterra also gets wrecked by its ice punch so it's useful as a lead against a team with Torterra. :]

    [Edit] The EV spread is max speed max attack 4 hp while the nature is jolly/adamant. Depends on preference.
  16. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    The best Sneasel set is Eviolite with Pursuit and three of Ice Shard, Ice Punch, Foul Play, Bite, Taunt, or Low Kick (they're all decent options) with max physical attack and max speed which allows it to trap stuff like Jynx as well as revenging weak threats with its high base speed and priority. Also, Sneasel does not get Night Slash!
    Punchshroom likes this.
  17. Brammi

    Brammi

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    So I haven't been playing alot recently but I have mucked around with a few Evi NFE sets.

    I've used Staryu with RS/Recover/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam with Analytic, I can't remember the spread but I remember running enough to outspeed Eggy and nothing else so I can tank a hit and KO a few things back. I honestly can't remember what the targets were but it was an OK set. Not great but ok as far as spinners in the tier go. Natural Cure is probably better 7 times out of 10 but it wouldn't be experimenting that way.

    Another that I absolutely love using and is on my stall team I whip out every now and then is a specially defensive Murkrow with Haze. Comes in one a variety of threats that would sweep otherwise and smacks them with a Priority Haze to stop them in their tracks. One of the few viable panic buttons for full stall in the tier.

    Now another thing that's very cool that I'm running with great success atm is Sandshrew. The little dude gets three very useful moves. Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, everyone knows about. But did you know it gets Super Fang? That Poke that can't do damage and is setup bait just became a very good Pokemon at softening up other things. I've been using it in conjunction with Spikes, a spin blocker and SD Priority Pinsir. And I've been impressed with it so far. Like it has major flaws, no denying that. It's still major setup bait, but it's a tanky mofo if you play it carefully. Team Preview lets you know where and when to use it. And if you have a strong defensive core to work with it can really do some work for you.

    Other things that perhaps deserve a muck around with (I haven't done them yet but yeah.) include Trapinch who is a beast with Priority (albeit the weak QA) and an impressive 100 Base Attack stat coupled with Arena Trap.
    Charmeleon is cool, so is Magnemite. Not sure if they're viable, but fun definitely.
  18. Leafshield

    Leafshield

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    Here's one that may or may not be good, but I've had a lot of fun with it, at the very least (not sure if it's been posted or not, but if it hasn't it should have been.)

    [​IMG]
    Pineco @ Berry Juice
    Level: 1
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: lol who cares
    Serious Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pain Split
    - Rapid Spin / Toxic / Toxic Spikes / Explosion / Attract / Sandstorm / Who fucking cares.

    While it is most obviously a gimmick, Level 1 Pineco is an absolutely hilarious and effective lead for Hyper Offensive teams, or even defensive teams that like as many hazards on the field as humanly possible in the shortest amount of time. Pineco's access to Sturdy, all forms of hazards, and Pain Split make it one annoying son of a bitch. If the opponent has any Stealth Rock setter that isn't Rock Blast Golem or Icicle Spear Piloswine, it's most definitely going to end up losing 1v1. The goal of the set is simple: go for Stealth Rock on turn one. The opposing lead will most likely either a.) go for their own Rocks, or b.) attack you outright (some who are prepared for the set will lead with a Pokemon with Substitute, so beware of that.). Depending on the play the opponent makes on Turn 1, you either set up your last layer of hazards or Pain Split until the opponent dies. Very often, after 2 or 3 pain splits, the opponent realizes that they aren't going to make any headway, so they switch. If you are a master predict0r such as myself, you will then go for another layer of hazards. The set is very good at getting plenty of damage off on the opponent's team as they switch around to their priority abuser, allowing you to get up hazards as you please. The set itself only really needs 3 slots, so there are plenty of filler options available. The most viable is definitely Rapid Spin, allowing you to get a last ditch spin off vs. opposing hazard stackers such as lead Scolipede and Garbodor who lack Rock Blast for some reason.

    This isn't all Pineco can do, however: if you are less of a risk-taker (or just hate shitty gimmicks.), you can use this set:

    [​IMG]
    Pineco @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe **
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Explosion

    This is a much less gimmicky Pineco, but it's just as effective when used correctly. Access to all forms of hazards makes Pineco very useful to any HO team, allowing you to use the rest of your team slots to dent the opposition, instead of having 2 Pokemon for hazards. The set is simple in practice: set up layer one of hazards. The opponent may or may not attack, but that's not too much of an issue. If the opponent attacks, you are put into Custap Berry range, meaning you can set up a layer of Spikes or what have you before they can kill you off. If the opponent is an opposing hazard lead, feel free to set up another layer as they knock you down to Sturdy on Turn 2. At this point, you can spin away Rocks with priority Rapid Spin (thanks to Custap Berry) or you can finish up your stacking with a third layer. Either way, it's a very useful set best used in conjunction with a spin blocker, such as Misdreavus. Last slot is filler, again. Explosion is okay I guess.

    **(the spread is variable. I run it because i just wanna get down to Custap quickly, simple as that. You could go bulkier, I suppose. Maybe enough to survive a 2 Hit Rock Blast from Golem or something, idk.)

    Of course, Pineco has its flaws, such as losing outright to almost all forms of lead Golem, and being basically down 5-6 after its done its job. Other than that, it's a cool Pokemon.
  19. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

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    [

    Dude, Electabuzz is better than Pikachu by a long shot.
    Even though Pikachu does get light ball, electabuzz can hit just almost as hard. Electabuzz also, gets access to Vital Spirit, allowing it to switch into Jynx if they go for the Lovely Kiss and Electa can actually take hit from its special side, because of that 85 base sp. defense with Life Orb. Pikachu has garbage defenses and cannot even take nuetral hits, making it harder to keep alive during the match. So, therefore EBuzz is better than Pikachu in most regards, but there is one thing that PIkachu gets that Ebuzz does not : Priority in Extremespeed. Pikachu can function as a good revenge killer if your opponent is at low health, but Ebuzz can do the same thing, if it runs a choice Scarf.

    Also, Electabuzz has the option to run more than one item to make it viable. Pikachu is stuck to using Light Ball,making Electabuzz more versatile as a pokemon in the NU tier as an NFE. Also, Ebuzz does have better offensive stats(meaning it can run more than light ball) and better stats all around over Pikachu. Ebuzz also outspeeds Jynx without the priority,and can possibly take a Psychic if its running Eviolite.

    Again, Electabuzz also gets a better ability than Pikachu, meaning that it can safely switch into pokemon that are normally Sleep Inducers like Roselia,Tangela, and Jynx and then scare them out with the super effective move. Pikachu on the other hand, is very suspectible to Status, because any form of it will shut Pikachu down, especially Sleep, because that will prevent it from attacking,which allows your opponent to switch into the Pikachu with Golem, or practically any sweeper that's not weak to electric and begin to either KO or start to set up on the sleeping Pikachu. Also, once asleep, Pikachu becomes practically dead weight, meaning that it can not do anything unless it gets the lucky wake up early, because if it doesn't then Pikachu is out of the Question.

    Your set is not too good with Static, so I suggest you get rid of Surf, because honestly, there are better coverage moves out there for Pikachu, like Brick Break for instance.

    Surf Pikachu is illegal, because you cannot transfer 4th gen mons with HMs to 5th generation.
  20. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    I know electabuzz is better than pikachu but this set I've used to success on showdown. Electabuzz is a pokemon I might look in to if I feel like staying in the nu tier though. :)
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  21. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

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    I was just saying that Electabuzz was better :p
    I really should try out Pikachu, think he could do well for a revenge killer with low health mons.
  22. iliekmudkipz123456789

    iliekmudkipz123456789

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    True. Pikachu can work great to revenge those tangelas and alomomolas along with weakened golurks. Electabuzz could run a scarf set making it somewhat like Pikachu as well. :)
  23. SotheBlacKnight

    SotheBlacKnight

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    So this is something that I'm curious about, but would Magmar be a decent check to Jynx? I've done some calcs and unless Jynx has a +2 Psychic/Focus Blast or Life Orb Psyshock it can't OHKO Magmar after rocks and Magmar doesn't fear Lovely Kiss because of Vital Spirit. In these ways he's a better counter to sub Jynx's than most of the ones talked about in the suspect discussion and can still pull his own when Jynx isn't around by being a decent Special Tank.
  24. HispanicPanic

    HispanicPanic

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    I think it could be a decent check, usually electabuzz is used over it for checking jynx because it has the same ability but out speeds jynx too. The fact that it harm jynx a lot more than electabuzz can is something to consider though.
  25. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

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    It would be a decent checkto jynx, but you might have to catch Jynx on the switch in in order to be really dishing out damage.
    He is a decent check mainly because he can live at least one hit and carry out more damage due to those defenses that Jynx has.
    (Sorry, tired as shit, I might have made a mistake)

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