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NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Walrein, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    Sam's #41:
    Nice suspicions list. How am I jumpy? Why is my post read as 'leaping up to defend billymills' and not 'noting something I think is suspicious'? You need to explain these points.

    Also, no, posting every opinion you have on every player is not advisable as it only makes posts less focused/harder to read and slows town down. The only thing town is interested in is your scum reads and your explanation for them. Giving lists of who you think is most townie only gives scum a better pool of 'these players will probably not get lynched' to NK from.

    Yeti's #42:
    I might have read that wrong, but... Sam is town because he's putting himself out in the open? This is bad because 1) good scum are active scum that try to act townie early on and 2) Sam isn't even the only one to do this. Why him?

    Sam's #48, regarding the announcer:
    No, and I agree fully with PBlade in that this is rolefishing. There is nothing good in analyzing a "confirmed town" this early in the game. There IS good in analyzing him AFTER he's had interactions with scum who do NOT know he's the confirmed announcer. Pubclaiming now would ruin this potential. Also, you noted yourself that the guy won't be 100% town. What's the point in this pursuing to pubclaim, then? Other than pure rolefishing, that is.

    Oh, and if you want less people to skim your posts, try making them a bit less wordy, eh?

    ==========

    If your post isn't mentioned, I found nothing overly wrong with it.

    Too many of you are posting :words: which get us nowhere. I've already said this itp but I'll repeat:

    Only post your suspicions / scum reads, and anything else that is highly relevant. Other things will likely be :noise: than anything else and will slow us down / clutter the thread.

    Staying with my UncleSam vote for now. I can definitely read his rather crooked logic having scum motivation behind it, and I don't quite get what he's voting Snype for at all. He's hypocritical and has dismissed his earlier posts, therefore scum? Why are weirdguy PBlade and bandwagon Brammi not your vote?

    FoS zorbees

    You definitely had time to post an opinion or two. Why are you keeping your hands clean?
  2. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    Suggestion for the hosts: change the vote command so it doesn't mix up with other bolded things. Like @@Vote, or something.
  3. zorbees

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    I haven't posted my opinions on anything because I don't see anything out of the ordinary. Its too early to really analyze anything. I am generally most suspicious of the people who haven't even made a single post in the thread, but I don't know if they are actually mafia, I just want them to talk so we can stop having a circlejerk with the same 5-10 players. I do not want the discussion to stagnate. I guess I'm suspicious of sam for being so interested in the useless role that is announcer, but not enough to try to lynch him when a good group of players haven't posted.
  4. askaninjask

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    Christ, it's the random voting stage... And it worked! My vote started a discussion that led to Paperblade defending himself. I can't see anything objectionable in that.

    Personally, like Ditto I find Day 1 to be an exercise in pointlessness. There's not very much to talk about at all until some discussion gets going. While it is a fact that the more people the lynch rolls on to, the better chance the village has going into Day 2, there really isn't much to say until then. I've said this in other NOC games I've been in.

    Anyway, I find StevenSnype's change from caps to non-caps suspicious as well, in addition to what UncleSam has said. His "that post wasn't serious" post was really odd. To say that a clearly serious post you made was "oh jk jk!!" is really strange. While I'm willing to give him a little bit of leeway for being new to NOC, I do expect him to be reasonably intelligent. For now,

    vote StevenSnype
  5. Leethoof

    Leethoof

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    Hello. If you guys cannot decide by the deadline of day 1, you can always lynch me and get another day to discuss. Because this is my first NOC, my scum-detector is not very-well tuned.

    However, I have to agree on Steven Snype jumping back and forth, because it is weird. All of this discussion is a litte confusing :S.
  6. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    Jumping on what seems to be the most established wagon feels good, surely, but what do you think about any of the other accusations?

    Also, if you agree with something, put your vote to it. What you're doing now is cheerleading, and that's not something you ought to be doing.
  7. Walrein

    Walrein

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    Snike has replaced Steven Snype due to the latter having an extremely busy week.
  8. UncleSam

    UncleSam

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    Ok I have some catching up to do...
    I should have phrased this better...if people agree with me, I want them to rehash what EXACTLY I said that convinced them. Basically, I want them to have to have an actual opinion to defend later on rather than just saying "hey man idk I was just following UncleSam".

    And while you did give a slight amount of reasoning, I found your vote immediately after mine a little band-wagonish. It was like you were waiting for the most vocal villager to announce his first concrete suspicion then piled on in the hopes that it would go somewhere.

    You are jumpy because you posted like five times in the span of thirty minutes when the discussion got going and as soon as I called you out on it you just started getting incredibly defensive (which you are still doing). Your defense here is basically "I'm not jumpy no I'm really REALLY not UncleSam has crooked logic vote him".

    And for the LAST FUCKING TIME, I called out to the announcer to get discussion going. Literally everything I have said in this thread has been to stir the pot and get discussion going, and the only thing I could think of that we had hard evidence of at the very beginning of the game was the existence of an announcer, who as far as I am concerned is just a vanilla villager who could help stir the pot on Day 1. I have already explained multiple times why him stepping up would've been a good idea, but quite frankly at this point I think that is incredibly unlikely to happen AND I think that we have a good enough discussion going that we don't really need much to stir the pot at the moment. Maybe we will need more to talk about in a few days, I really can't say.

    And if you are going to say I have "crooked logic" and that you think I am mafia or whatever the fuck you are saying, please explain what makes my logic faulty AND explain how the manner in which I am playing is detrimental to the town. Because right now I am the one driving the discussion while all you (and Paperblade and Brammi) are doing is focusing on one person and spouting random generalities about crookedness while completely ignoring everyone else in the thread (seriously, you found NO other posts in the thread of note other than mine? You expect me to believe that?).

    Oh right then you say you don't get why I am voting for Snype despite the fact that I explained it quite clearly over a number of posts and Snype has not so much as responded or contributed to the thread at all (and recently got conveniently subbed out). If my posts were the only ones you found of note, surely you didn't skip over the parts about Snype right?

    Oh wait that's exactly what you did. Same goes for someone else I can think of that is randomly accusing me of "role fishing" and completely ignoring everyone else in this thread.
    oh glad to see you put thought into that.

    Other random posts that stuck out like sore thumbs to me:
    This is all Ditto has contributed thus far...telling us that if we mislynch for the first four cycles and the mafia/wolf never crossfire then we will have the same number of men as there are combined wolf/mafia by day 5. Then saying he doubts there is a wolf with no reasoning whatsoever. Then saying there could possibly be 6 mafia.

    I'd really like to know where all this speculation is coming from and why Ditto is not contributing to discussion at all.

    This is possibly the most useless post made yet this game (apart from random trolls), and implicitly defends Snype without actually going on the offensive against those accusing him or shifting the blame to anyone else. Then he says something random about a 24 person village likes he wants to hold hands and sing kumbaya.

    Smogon mafia in general is treated seriously, and when we have anything at all to go on I think it is obviously in the best interests of the village to analyze it carefully. I am aware that I trolled quite a bit early on, but that was because I was (ONCE AGAIN NOTE THIS BT) trying to stir the pot and get discussion going and we had pretty much nothing to go on at that point.

    Just wanted to note that Yeti is buddying Ditto in this post.

    I am seriously confused by this post on so many levels.

    Are you saying we should lynch you because you are inexperienced and won't be of much help? I have literally never heard anyone (villager or mafia) say that before, experienced or inexperienced.

    Then you just say that Steven Snype is "jumping back and forth" when in reality he hasn't been jumping at all because he hasn't been posting...he just made one odd post N0 then tried to pass it off as "lol jk" before disappearing and getting subbed.

    Quite frankly if I didn't want to keep the pressure on Snike so that he will actually respond to this discussion I would change my vote to you. Consider this a warm welcome to answer for exactly what you meant in that post AND to provide a little insight on some of the other players in this game.
  9. Ditto

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    UncleSam, I already said why I posted this. Multiple times in fact.
    I say that there is likely not a wolf because I think that only allowing the village 4 mislynches seems like it would be too hard. With no wolf, that would leave 1 less kill per night and allow more room for mafia.

    And I don't like D1 discussion because there is little to no basis on anyone's reads at this point. It's literally a bunch of finger pointing and yelling. If I can get an accurate read on someone yet, what is the point of posting a read list?
  10. Snike

    Snike

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    Good morning, ladies and gents. It seems that my predecessor caused some slight confusion within participants, myself included. What I get from the gist of those posts is that Snype hasn't played much NOC mafia, and that's the only somewhat explanation for his actions I can provide, as they do baffle me a bit. Much ado about very little, is how I would categorize the wagon on myself, to be blunt. Anyways, moving right along.

    -I don't think the announcer should claim, mainly for the fact that it reduces the potential PR pool. There could be some slight use of the role in certain circumstances, but I'm not sure how much role speculation will help at this point in time.

    I'd like take a look at this post here:
    I'm not really sure what the intent behind this post was but, well, this just irks me. If he's village, it outs him as useless role which narrows down the targets for the mafia. This also makes him look like he's naive, due to not reading the rules. On the other hand, if he's mafia , this post makes him look like inexperienced vanillager, which will leave him untouched for a while. Then there's this support for a me lynch without actually voting or providing solid reasoning, as my primary persecutor has so kindly noted. It just seems like you aren't thinking independently to me.

    Either way, he is a solid choice FMPOV. Leethoof 2012
  11. UncleSam

    UncleSam

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    At this point in time all of this seems fairly reasonable, but I would like to say that, having played against Snype in RTM on IRC, he tends to drop a LOT of tells if he is mafia, and that was the vibe I was getting from him pretty strongly. You seem much more adept at NOC mafia, which leads me to believe that you may well just be trying for some damage control to ensure this lynch hits someone other than you.

    That being said, I can't exactly fault you for making valid points and if you are in fact a villager then it's not like you could give any other explanation for Snype's actions.

    However, my vote will remain on you until you answer a few more questions:
    -It looks to me like you are simply trying to redirect suspicion towards an (admittedly retarded) post from a noobie, and are just going after the easiest target. Any reason you don't mention ANY other suspicions other than towards Leethoof?
    -What do you think of the other vocal users up to this point? Please address each of the following: Myself, Blue_Tornado, Paperblade, Yeti, Ditto, zorbees, Brammi, anyone else I forgot.
    -What do you think of the notable silences from several players I for one would expect to be active? I am looking at TalkingLion (who is currently hosting a game and has been active but hasn't posted in this thread once), jalmont, MK Ultra (his lone post was WAYYYYY too friendly for my tastes), and most especially billymills.
    -Do you think it is a bad idea for the announcer to step up at this very moment because we have discussion going (my viewpoint) or would you have thought the same right from the start of Day 1 (BT/PBlade's/zorbees' viewpoint)?

    Additionally and just to make this even more clear, apart from the obvious idlers thus far, MK Ultra, Talking Lion, jalmont and billymills (and Crux STILL) have been WAY too inactive thus far and I would like an explanation of that from each of them.

    Oh, and as for the Leethoof voting...I think that he has some serious explaining to do and that if he does not do so soon, I may decide that he is even more suspicious than Snype was before he got subbed.
  12. zorbees

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    Just putting this out there, but UncleSam is not prodding the less experienced users who have been inactive (Kaxtar, Infinity.Cypher, Metal Bagon, Rediamond, etc). Care to explain?
  13. UncleSam

    UncleSam

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    Well quite frankly I don't really expect them to be active so it's not really as surprising as when billymills is inactive.

    I agree that the less experienced users NEED to post. That being said, they haven't done anything that I would think of as odd and so I haven't been focusing on them as much in comparison to what I view as out of the ordinary behavior.

    Plus, quite frankly you were already doing a decent enough job covering that and I didn't want to change votes in order to facilitate a response from Snype/Snike.

    In other words, I hadn't given them any thought other than random in-passing "they kinda need to post but I guess I don't expect anything better from them". You can't expect me to cover absolutely everything first...
  14. billymills

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    Halp I go to sleep and suddenly I'm v suspicious.

    I need a bell, I will not say what it does nor why I need it. My lynch target has not talked yet I believe, even when he had at least 2 votes on him.

    Of everyone else, I don't believe ditto has done very well. Trying to dismiss multiple posts as trolls and dismiss the others as responses to direct questions.

    Nothing has struck me as 'off' with either Unclesam Or Snype/Snike, and I'll keep my vote on Rediamond for now.
  15. TalkingLion

    TalkingLion

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    All right, my reasoning for not posting is as follows. I have been reading through the thread, but I haven't had much to say, hence me not posting. This is only my second NOC game, so I am clearly not very experienced. No one seems particularly suspicious at the moment, although Leethoof's post is a bit strange, and I would like a bit more explanation on that. If anyone wants to know my thoughts on anything, then please do ask.
  16. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    Dear God, the hypocrisy in this one is huge.

    You want me to explain why your use logic is "crooked" even though I've already pointed out several instances of this in the first two pages. Then you call me out for being overdefensive with no elaboration whatsoever. Where am I overdefensive? For explaining my reasons for pushing you in 'my defense against billymills'? Since that's the only instance I can even mistake as being overdefensive. In contrast, why are you exaggerating on your defense here? If that's not a huge indicative of your own overdefensiveness, I don't know what is.
    And this isn't exaggerated and is totally scummy. Man, how could anyone miss this huge scumtell?

    I especially like how you completely discred my suspicions on you by calling them byproducts of my so-called overdefensiveness. A good way of misrepping if it wasn't transparent as all hell.

    "Yup uh no I was not rolefishing I was just PROMOTING DISCUSSION".

    I explained how what you're doing is detrimental to the town already. I'm sure you're able to read. I also like how you read my post as a concentrated effort against you because if fits your case. In reality, your behavior and your behavior alone is what's making me squirm so far, and my posts have been reflecting that.

    Oh, yeah. What's making you think you're the one in charge of stirring discussion, let alone the only one doing so? What kind of horrible attempt at crowning yourself as obvtown is this?
  17. billymills

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    To be fair bt, you were defending me far too much.
  18. zorbees

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    Vote UncleSam

    I honestly agree a lot with what Blue_Tornado is saying, in regards to the announcer. Also, even if we mislynch you, you'd probably be the best person to mislynch, as we could gain a lot of information based on who buddies you, who you call scum, etc.

    Obviously subject to change but for now this should be fine.

    EDIT: unvoted
  19. UncleSam

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    Ok there are just so many problems with this post it makes my head hurt.

    Firstly, you defended billymills for no apparent reason and ever since have been trying to pretend you didn't. Even fucking billymills says so.

    Secondly, my behavior is driving discussion, this is pretty obvious to everyone who is thinking. It is well known that discussion is helpful for the town. Then you go and say something like:
    Hey guess what dumbass it's EVERYONE'S job to promote discussion, the fact that I am one of the few doing it so far is not a valid reason to suspect me. I never said I was the only one doing so, I said I was the one driving the discussion, and this is pretty obviously true.

    Then you start randomly spouting accusations like "what kind of horrible attempt at crowning yourself as obvtown is this?????" Like, really? Did you put any thought into that statement or are you really THAT desperate to sling mud at me?

    Then you say something like:
    Ok so I bring up obviously valid points to help my case...I can see why this would bother you because you clearly do not do the same. And if your posts thus far have not been a concentrated effort to attack me then what the fuck do you call the post quoted at the top of this post? You are literally not responding to ANYONE other than me in this thread and are just telling people "lolololol UncleSam is suspicious because he is pointing out obvious retarded things I am saying then saying they are suspicious".

    Try putting some thought into your posts in the future and actually reading through the thread to promote real discussion.

    Now then as for others, I think it is odd that Snike has been active for the past hour and has not responded to my last post. Also, I find Talking Lion's post of "well I have nothing to contribute" absolutely useless, so let's see if I can make him a little more useful.

    TALKINGLION ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS PLEASE:
    -What do you think of the trustworthiness of the following users: UncleSam, Blue_Tornado, Paperblade, Brammi, billymills, Yeti, Ditto, zorbees? Please provide some thought behind these or else just admit they are "hunches".

    Also Rediamond, Kaxtar, and company really need to post.

    Edit@zorbees: Please explain how lynching the most vocal person who is driving the most discussion is in any universe the "best possible lynch". Especially considering you are being FAR less talkative than you usually are when you are a villager.
  20. Blue_Tornado

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    I was not defending you; I was pointing out UncleSam's horrible... you know what, let me just summarize my reasons for UncleSam dislike in an easy-to-parse way:

    • Attempt at setting players' allegiances based on past games.
    • Attempt at not-so-subtle rolefishing, later justified by "stirring discussion" when it turns out to be transparent.
    • Encouraging players to post fluff and clutter the thread. ('opinions on EVERYONE, please')
    • Overreaction to my case.
    • Attempt at setting self up as a 'village leader' figure which will hardly ever be considered as a lynch target.

    E: Oh, a post.
    EE: It's like talking to a brick wall. If I haven't focused on anyone but you, there's a reason for that. You're just making it out to be "not reading anything else" because it puts me in a bad light. And how exactly are you replying to my explanations that your reasons are bad with "my reasons are good"? I've explained why they are bad. You need to explain why they are good if you want to hold any right to continue what you're doing right now.
  21. billymills

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    Blue_Tornado please stop defending me you're making us both look bad =(
  22. Blue_Tornado

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    billymills please stop supporting UncleSam's still-unjustified claim with no justification. You're making us both look bad =(
  23. billymills

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    Me supporting Unclesam's claim wouldn't make you look bad unless you were doing a really bad job trying to defend me.

    In other news, I agree with Zorbees' lynch. Not because Sam has done anything wrong, but because he's given us multiple opinions on everyone, and most everyone has given an opinion of him. It would give us a good starting point next day.

    Vote Unclesam
  24. Blue_Tornado

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    Nope. I've already explained what town-motivated approach led me to "defend you". And you're making me look bad by supporting his claim like it was obvtrue, when there are plenty of players that will be swayed by this because they only skim through the thread.

    And I now do not like the rationale behind the zorbees/billy wagon jumps. We have an endless D1 and we're only 21 hours in. What's the rush in pushing for a vote under reasons that usually suit the end of the day?
  25. zorbees

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    I'm never too active and posty in noc games unclesam. I never said you were the best possible lynch, I said you were the best possible mislynch; note the subtle difference.

    EDIT: @B_T, i'm not rushing to vote sam, am I supposed to delay my post for no reason just so it isn't seen as rushing?

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