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np: BW Ubers Suspect Round 2 - U Can't Touch This (UPDATE: EVASION UNBANNED!)

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by bojangles, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. GG Unit

    GG Unit

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    That's not foolproof against a good BP team though. You basically need a Dragon with >120 base Attack or offensive Groudon to be guaranteed to break a 252/252+ Ninjask's sub. Plus, if Ninjask just spams Sub+Protect, there's a ~40% chance at least one of five Dragon Tails misses.

    Outside of Haze or Perish Song, the best bet is to have a mon with something like Roar or Taunt that also has the potential to take out Espeon if they choose to switch it in.
  2. jrp

    jrp Drama born from light as the four elements converge
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    giratina-o.

    it can shadow sneak once the ninjask user gets low on heatlh if need be
  3. AfroThunderRule

    AfroThunderRule *yawn* ez
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    Wasn't the best course of action simply using E-Speed on Drifblim during his Disable turn so the disables that instead? I mean it's not like he needed E-Speed all that much against Furai as Shadow Claw hits 4/6 members for SE damage.
  4. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    The things is, that you don't usually expect Drifblim to run it. However, I almost always go for the Substitute first, just in case Arceus goes for the Swords Dance, or as you said, the E-Speed. Then, I Minimize, and Disable that Shadow Claw, leaving Arceus prone to my BP chain.

    BP chains aren't really that good, but they're a lot of fun. You need everything to go just as planned; it's either you 6-0 or you lose. Every member has its role, and it must stay alive throughout the entire match to win the game. Mawile can be a nice addition for those chains if you want the Normal, Ghost, and Dark resistance, which can be quite a pain.
  5. Imma Fly

    Imma Fly Who needs wings when you have Rokushiki?
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    This post is simply to identify myself as the alt DerpBoys who has met the reqs.
    Here is the link:

    http://trixarian.net/paste/302db

    *I tried uploading the image a few times to the page, but I still failed and therefore I settled with giving the link. Hope it would suffice though.

    Ps. This screenshot was taken on 10 December, so my ranking may have dropped since then, but I was rank #20 at the time of my completion of the reqs.
  6. Hack

    Hack I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY IN DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS
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    Just question.. When will the identification thread be posted? It says in the description that there will be a separate thread, but many people seem to post here instead.

    It's kinda confusing, could someone clarify this?
  7. jrp

    jrp Drama born from light as the four elements converge
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    yeah, a lot of us (me included) post here just so nothing happens when it comes time to identify.

    There'll eventually be an identification thread though
  8. Rediamond

    Rediamond

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    I laddered up to about 1800 for the day and stopped. I saw one Evasion Team total, and that was underwhelming. In a tier where one turn of setup can turn virtually anything into an unstoppable force bound to take down or heavily damage at least one Pokemon, having a chance to make it slightly less probable the opponent hits (and likely KO's) is almost irrelevent. There are very few Pokemon who would ever use Double Team over another setup move, which should prove that Evasion is far from broken.
  9. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Sorry if I'm being a pain, but when is the voting thread actually going up? It was scheduled to be posted last Saturday, but nothing yet. I understand that Jibaku is really inactive and bojangles has apparently disappeared, so hopefully some other mod or admin will step up and take this over for the time being. All we need is a voting thread.
  10. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    Well folks just in case you didn't get the news, Evasion got unbanned! heres how the votes went.

    Do Not Retain: 18
    Retain: 8
    Abstain: 2


    As for the next test... well the SPL tournament might delay that. We'll have to talk about this in the Ubers council, but something will be posted as soon as we decide on how we are gonna tackle the last clause tests!
  11. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Shocked that something so obviously uncompetitive and skill-less was unbanned, but hey, if the majority deems it to be not broken than who am I to argue? ._.

    seriously guys what are you doing, I lost to Drifblim because of this

    20:05 kd24 yeah lavos
    20:05 Lavos hey
    20:05 kd24 agree entirely on the ubers thing
    20:05 kd24 minimize bp drifblim is ridiculous
    20:05 Lavos idgi man
    20:05 kd24 and it makes no sense to unban evasion
    20:05 kd24 as a whole
    20:05 Lavos it's not that evasion is a good strategy
    20:05 kd24 even if its not very good its just
    20:05 Lavos but it's completely uncompetitive
    20:05 kd24 so non competiive
    20:05 Lavos and messes up good players sometimes
    20:05 Lavos for no good reason
    20:06 kd24 all it is is a way for bad players
    20:06 kd24 to luck their way
    20:06 kd24 to beating good players
    20:06 kd24 decisions that bridge the skill gap
    20:06 kd24 are never a good idea

    that pretty much sums it up
  12. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    I think this was a really bad decision for a lot of reasons, but I really wasn't vocal during the process so I can't really complain. That being said, fighting minimize Baton Pass Drifblim is gonna be the worst thing ever =[
  13. Focus

    Focus Nerd is the word.
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    So THIS is what the Mayans predicted...

    What else can I say? Every time I faced evasion moves or tried them myself, they were not only pointless, but actually a liability. Double Team just sucks, and only Drifblim seems to have a competitive use for Minimize. Even then, Baton Pass is significantly harder to consistently win with in Ubers than a conventional team archetype. Evasion moves are an additional luck factor, but apparently very minor one. I wouldn't feel right about banning Brightpowder or Confuse Ray for the same reason. I'm not saying that unbanning evasion moves was for sure the right thing to do (I'm not fully convinced it was), but rather that if evasion moves can be at all a detriment to the metagame, this testing period sure has not shown that to me.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Lavos Spawn / kd24, if Evasion ever proves to be problematic to this metagame, we can always re-visit it. It's not the end of the world :o
  15. Hugin

    Hugin

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    Rain+Thunder. Spam it. If you see a Drifblim in the preview, lead with Ogre, lock yourself into Thunder if they lead with Drifblim. If they lead with something else, play normally, if Drifblim comes in, switch to something with Thunder, lock yourself in. Ogre outspeeds, so you should never face a Drifblim with more than one turn to set up, and it can't live more than a single hit without a sash. DB uses Minimize, you OHKO. DB uses sub, you break it. As long as you're faster, it loses, and even if you're slower, at worst it can pass a sub or a single Minimize. Not exactly gamebreaking.

    There are 2 exceptions. If you're running without Rain(or with a Kyogre without Thunder), which is relatively rare, then counters become harder. In that case, Perish Song, Haze, or similar Phazing moves that don't have accuracy are the best bet, and can usually fit easily on a team(Darkrai).
    Alternatively, you might get Mean Looked with a scarfer locked into Focus Blast or similar, then have that passed to Drifblim. In that case, you got outplayed, which is your own fault.
  16. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Pretty much what Pocket said. If any set proves to be broken in the metagame, namely Minimize Driflblim, we can always go for a complex ban. We all agree that Double Team sucks, it just takes too much time to setup, but Minimize is a different story. I think we need to let the metagame adapt first, and then see the impact of Evasion moves on it; only then we can decide if it's broken or not, if it's competitive or not, and it it's skill-less or not.
  17. IstheCakeReallyaLie

    IstheCakeReallyaLie

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    Would it be possible to get Mini/DTeamPass banned, but not evasion moves in general? I think it could be a voting option, at least. Thoughts?
  18. dice

    dice practitioner of the city
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    Eh, seems too complex for most peoples' tastes.. As Furai said, "Basically, Evasion is High Reward, Even Higher Risk; not worth it. "

    I pretty much agree. If you get hit while setting up, you're down a Poke & SubDisable is relatively easy to play around. It's not the end of the world imo, that was yday.
  19. IstheCakeReallyaLie

    IstheCakeReallyaLie

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    SmashPass is banned in RU already, though, but I see where you're coming from. Slippery slope.
  20. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
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    Smashpass was also broken across all of its users.
  21. IbanezObsession

    IbanezObsession

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    This really is going to suck the life out of the Ubers meta...Considering it's one of the only balanced right now, unbanning something as uncompetitive as this just makes me shake my head. I'd like to know why anyone would want that unbanned.
  22. Sol64

    Sol64

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    Risky as hell though.
  23. Tobes

    Tobes
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    Because, to put it simply, "you don't ban unbroken stuff and you don't leave unbroken stuff banned." If you had concerns about what Evasion would do to Ubers, you should've laddered your way to reqs--not only to be able to act on your concern, but to be able to see for yourself if you were right. The fact is that the majority of the people who qualified saw Evasion so infrequently (and when they did see it it was usually ineffective) that they felt it was such a non-factor in Ubers that it didn't need to be banned. After all, if it was broken and likely to give wins, people would use it, right? Hell, I'd say Skymin is more dangerous than Evasion, and probably saw more usage. Overall I expect Evasion being unbanned to have barely any noticable effect on Ubers. It'll likely just be business as usual, i.e. what people call balanced. "Suck the life out of" is just incredible hyperbole and I'd prefer not to see it again in this thread.

    This isn't the end of the world anyway. If Evasion ever becomes a serious problem we can just reban it.
  24. CDB-Man

    CDB-Man

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  25. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
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    I like seeing Evasion Clause removed. If anything, it breathes more life into full Baton Pass teams. Ubers really has a massive variability of viable team archetypes, I'm happy to see that extended.
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