Gourgeist might be good but it does not wall like nearly the whole meta like lanturn does. ban lanturn imo
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Metagame NP: NU (beta): Welcome to the NU Age (Combusken Banned)
- Thread starter Raseri
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My team is more of an offensive team with a stall core. So, I consider it stall. But I'm not considering Lanturn over any member of the team, they all are needed for the team to function.
I saw people talking about Sticky Web a few pages back and how we have shitty spinners/defoggers. I wanted to know you guys think are the best ones in the tier. I really like the old Smashkoal set from last gen. I didn't play BW NU, and I saw this set and someone saying it was the best spinner in BW NU on an old forum or something. It beats every relevant spinblocker in the tier bar Mismagius, Golurk, and Drifblim.
+2 36 SpA Torkoal Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Spiritomb: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not sure how relevant that calc is considering I don't know what kind of sets Spiritomb runs other than the trapper one. It goes without saying that he beats Doublade, all Gourgeist, and (lol) Dusknoir/Dusclops).
+2 36 SpA Torkoal Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom: 267-315 (110.7 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Rotom Shadow Ball vs. -1 252 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 211-250 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'm by no means saying he is the best spinner in the tier, I'm just throwing him out there. He also has the ability to lay down stealth rocks on his own, though it'll be hard to get two free turns to spin and lay down some rocks. The stealth rock weakness also makes it hard for him to switch in and spin more than once or twice. I think he's more suited for offensive teams, who will appreciate his ability to either burn targets or force switches using Yawn.
Who do you guys think the best hazard remover in the tier is.
+2 36 SpA Torkoal Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Spiritomb: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not sure how relevant that calc is considering I don't know what kind of sets Spiritomb runs other than the trapper one. It goes without saying that he beats Doublade, all Gourgeist, and (lol) Dusknoir/Dusclops).
+2 36 SpA Torkoal Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom: 267-315 (110.7 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Rotom Shadow Ball vs. -1 252 HP / 0 SpD Torkoal: 211-250 (61.3 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'm by no means saying he is the best spinner in the tier, I'm just throwing him out there. He also has the ability to lay down stealth rocks on his own, though it'll be hard to get two free turns to spin and lay down some rocks. The stealth rock weakness also makes it hard for him to switch in and spin more than once or twice. I think he's more suited for offensive teams, who will appreciate his ability to either burn targets or force switches using Yawn.
Who do you guys think the best hazard remover in the tier is.
*casually emerges from the shadows to whisper "Shiftry" before disappearing back into the ether*
It doesn't really need to since it's running substitute most of the time (it would definitely help though). Behind a sub, it will punish anything with a leech seed or will-o-wisp except for Xatu, which Gourgeist can hit with Shadow Sneak/Rock Slide on the switch or behind a sub.
I'm glad that people have brought up Gourgeist, as I wanted to discuss normal Gourgiest. It is a good middle-ground between Small and Super with a nice 84 speed and slightly higher hp and attack than Gourgeist-Small. This is a set that I was using recently (though it might be done a bit better with Gourgeist-Small thanks to the higher speed...I might want to use Rock Slide over Pain Split):
Gourgeist @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Pain Split
This is a stall machine. Anything other than Xatu will be either seeded or burned and possibly stalled to death. Pain Split is very useful, shortening the stalling process when the opponent is at high health and helping Gourgeist's longevity when things get rough. However, it is interchangeable with Shadow Sneak or Rock Slide.
Here is a replay of it in action (Disclaimer: I made two awful mispredictions towards the beginning of the match and yes, I was using Prinplup lol; just testing to see if it was usable): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nualpha-124119456
While my opponent forfeited with frustration, Gourgeist alone would have stalled his entire team to death (Dragalgae may have been able to survive, but I don't think so. Gourgeist really hates Chatot, Xatu, Liepard and Murkrow though, so there is obviously stuff keeping it in check. tl;dr Gourgeist and its forms are awesome
Hey everyone! So recently, I've been playing stall, and I just wanted to make mention of a really great Pokemon if you do decide to ever give stall a try; that would be Audino!
Audino @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Double-Edge / Toxic
- Heal Bell
While there are a lot of great, great, GREAT defensive Pokemon in NU - such as Gourgeist, Doublade, Poliwrath, Steelix, Dragalge, Mantine, Lanturn, Granbull, and plenty more - they all struggle with an unfortunate lack of reliable recovery. This is where Audino comes in; with a good 103 HP stat and access to Wish, Audino is great at healing the rest of the team back up to full health. This makes it almost impossible for the opponent to wear down these massively annoying walls, and makes it much easier for your team to win the game. However, one thing you may be thinking to yourself is: Why not use Lickilicky, who has the exact same typing and movepool, but also has better stats in basically all categories? The answer is simple: Regenerator. With Regenerator, Audino can not only heal its teammates on the switch, but also heal itself, as well. This makes it a much better Wish passer for stall, as it doesn't have to keep healing itself up with Wish. Lickilicky, however, must stay in for a turn to heal itself, and THEN pass a Wish, which is almost impossible as your opponent can easily switch into a powerful Fighting-type while Lickilicky is healing itself up. Overall, Audino is probably one of the best Wish passers for stall, and should be considered by all stall players when building a team! :]
Audino @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Double-Edge / Toxic
- Heal Bell
While there are a lot of great, great, GREAT defensive Pokemon in NU - such as Gourgeist, Doublade, Poliwrath, Steelix, Dragalge, Mantine, Lanturn, Granbull, and plenty more - they all struggle with an unfortunate lack of reliable recovery. This is where Audino comes in; with a good 103 HP stat and access to Wish, Audino is great at healing the rest of the team back up to full health. This makes it almost impossible for the opponent to wear down these massively annoying walls, and makes it much easier for your team to win the game. However, one thing you may be thinking to yourself is: Why not use Lickilicky, who has the exact same typing and movepool, but also has better stats in basically all categories? The answer is simple: Regenerator. With Regenerator, Audino can not only heal its teammates on the switch, but also heal itself, as well. This makes it a much better Wish passer for stall, as it doesn't have to keep healing itself up with Wish. Lickilicky, however, must stay in for a turn to heal itself, and THEN pass a Wish, which is almost impossible as your opponent can easily switch into a powerful Fighting-type while Lickilicky is healing itself up. Overall, Audino is probably one of the best Wish passers for stall, and should be considered by all stall players when building a team! :]
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While I have seen a lot of audino hype in the nu room wigglytuff has everything that audino has bar regenerator which it trades in for an actual offensive presence in the form of copmetitive. Another argument to lickilicky>audino is because of once again the offensive presence with the infamous sd set but along with being immune to taunt now thanks to the ablivious buff. TL;DR NU has some damn good clerics all 3 of which are a good choice for any team. Also shoutout to granbull for being not only an all out offensive cleric one but also one that is a pivot and who could forget lanturn the thing walls half the meta and threatens you with a burn/para while it just heal bells although the latter 2 have no recovery outside of rest they are still good choices for team.Hey everyone! So recently, I've been playing stall, and I just wanted to make mention of a really great Pokemon if you do decide to ever give stall a try; that would be Audino!
Audino @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Double-Edge / Toxic
- Heal Bell
While there are a lot of great, great, GREAT defensive Pokemon in NU - such as Gourgeist, Doublade, Poliwrath, Steelix, Dragalge, Mantine, and plenty more - they all struggle with an unfortunate lack of reliable recovery. This is where Audino comes in; with a good 103 HP stat and access to Wish, Audino is great at healing the rest of the team back up to full health. This makes it almost impossible for the opponent to wear down these massively annoying walls, and makes it much easier for your team to win the game. However, one thing you may be thinking to yourself is: Why not use Lickilicky, who has the exact same typing and movepool, but also has better stats in basically all categories? The answer is simple: Regenerator. With Regenerator, Audino can not only heal its teammates on the switch, but also heal itself, as well. This makes it a much better Wish passer for stall, as it doesn't have to keep healing itself up with Wish. Lickilicky, however, must stay in for a turn to heal itself, and THEN pass a Wish, which is almost impossible as your opponent can easily switch into a powerful Fighting-type while Lickilicky is healing itself up. Overall, Audino is probably one of the best Wish passers for stall, and should be considered by all stall players when building a team! :]
Well A. Wigglytuff has much shittier defenses B. It doesn't have Regenerator, which is what makes Audino so good on stall and C. The lack of offensive presence isn't really all that bad for a Stall team. Also I understand Lickilicky is usually better on balance / semi-stall teams, however, when it comes to a Wish passer for pure stall, I find that Audion can't be beat.
Also Granbull/Lanturn don't even pass Wishes so idk why you brought them up, even though they are damn good clerics <3
Well the thing is that wigglytuff's isn't that much worse then audino's when taking hp into account I agree that wigglytuff is not that good on a stall team but it can, like lickylicky be a good wishpasser on balance and semi stall teams. (also it passes the biggest wishes of the trio)
Don't want to start anything bye the way :)
Can a case be made for Magneton to get more noticed?
This guy literally traps two of the best steel types in the tier and utterly annihilates them
Its a fairly decent volt switcher if you need it too, and 120 base SpA speaks for itself, you're going to be causing some dents
This guy literally traps two of the best steel types in the tier and utterly annihilates them
Its a fairly decent volt switcher if you need it too, and 120 base SpA speaks for itself, you're going to be causing some dents
^ assuming the two best Steel-types are Doublade and Durant, it can't trap the former coz it's a Ghost-type.
IK that we nkw have far more ways to remove hazards compared to last gen, but I wanted to ask you guys what your thoughts are in preventing them from going up in the first place. Mainly I was trying to think of ways in preventing Shuckle from setting up, since it really is annoyingly good. It really has it nearly all covered from the technical side, with Mental Herb and Sturdy, and from the blunt side, with its insane Defense. Then I realized that we have a Pokemon that's not changed much from last gen when it comes to offensive pressure in not letting hazards get set up.
Mold Breaker Rampardos hits as hard as it ever did, and gained an indirect buff with Sticky Web (its the only Pokemon I can think of to OHKO 252/252+ Shuckle) and can abuse Sticky Web itself to great effect. It can OHKo that Shuckle with either Band Stone Edge, or Scarf Head Smash. The former is probably better though, since it has a far more powerful Superpower/Earthquake against other hazard setters (cant KO Rhydon, Seismitoad or Steelix though, which certainly is a bummer :/) Band is probably better because of massive damage output, the fact thats its fast enough to outspeed pretty much any wall, doesn't need to run Head Smash, and can abuse Sticky Web fine. There's also the pro af mixed Sheer Force LO set that must be pretty nasty under Webs. Certainly a niche Pokemon, and one that can't fit on too many teams, but if you need to get rid of Shuckle and want a Wallbreaker/can't fit in a hazard remover consider this :) It also has insane cool factor!
Also shoutout to Specs Swellow, this thing freaking wrecks
IK that we nkw have far more ways to remove hazards compared to last gen, but I wanted to ask you guys what your thoughts are in preventing them from going up in the first place. Mainly I was trying to think of ways in preventing Shuckle from setting up, since it really is annoyingly good. It really has it nearly all covered from the technical side, with Mental Herb and Sturdy, and from the blunt side, with its insane Defense. Then I realized that we have a Pokemon that's not changed much from last gen when it comes to offensive pressure in not letting hazards get set up.
Mold Breaker Rampardos hits as hard as it ever did, and gained an indirect buff with Sticky Web (its the only Pokemon I can think of to OHKO 252/252+ Shuckle) and can abuse Sticky Web itself to great effect. It can OHKo that Shuckle with either Band Stone Edge, or Scarf Head Smash. The former is probably better though, since it has a far more powerful Superpower/Earthquake against other hazard setters (cant KO Rhydon, Seismitoad or Steelix though, which certainly is a bummer :/) Band is probably better because of massive damage output, the fact thats its fast enough to outspeed pretty much any wall, doesn't need to run Head Smash, and can abuse Sticky Web fine. There's also the pro af mixed Sheer Force LO set that must be pretty nasty under Webs. Certainly a niche Pokemon, and one that can't fit on too many teams, but if you need to get rid of Shuckle and want a Wallbreaker/can't fit in a hazard remover consider this :) It also has insane cool factor!
Also shoutout to Specs Swellow, this thing freaking wrecks
Hey Guys, Just Wondering If I Can Ask For Help Here? I Need A Hand From You Guys To Figure Out A Good Set For Mantine. I Need Help Distributing Its EV's And Figuring Out A Nature/Attacks
So Far I Thought Defog And Scald Were Good Options. Obviously Mantine Would Be Used For Support...
Any Ideas? :)
Thanks Guys
So Far I Thought Defog And Scald Were Good Options. Obviously Mantine Would Be Used For Support...
Any Ideas? :)
Thanks Guys
I know it sounds really obvious, but one of the only other reliable ways of stopping Mental Herb Shuckle from getting up at least one hazard is just having a Xatu on your team. Every time I face a team with Xatu while I'm using Sticky Web, I just kind of hang out and hope that I can lure it in early, but it rarely happens against good players because my team isn't built to do that.
Shuckle (with Infestation) is unfortunately very often paired with a Pursuit user (I use liepard/tomb) and im tired of that combo preventing me from reflecting webs :/
The big problem with Mantine is that despite its insane Bulk is extremely expendable since it doesn't get reliable recovery much like most of the walls that end up in NU. It's best defog set in my opinion based on personal use is maxing out HP and Special Defense with a Calm nature and lefties running the moveset: Scald, Air Slash, Defog and Mirror Coat. I wouldn't recommend it as a defogger though as it's both weak to rocks and it has little way in which to recover the damage it takes from the rocks so using something like Noctowl in my opinion is a safer bet for a similar Pokémon.
Omg Thank You SOOOOO Much! What Would You Run Instead Of Defog? Also Im Not Fussed About Other Options Haha Im Using The Pokemon I Like ^_^
Defog is incompatible with water absorb so basically your just a flying seismitoad
Ewww That's Not An Attractive Look....NO DEFOG Then Haha, Anyone Suggest Me Another Option? I'll Be Eternally Grateful
It traps Durant which is good and it is a good momentum gainer, I have used scarf magneton and it is pretty good at nailing people that don't think almost every magneton is scarfed. Although it can run analytic if you bring it in against flu blade because they are like lol I can switch but then get wrecked by a analytic volt switch.
I'm guessing Specs Swellow is used to lure non-Rock/Steel physical walls and 2HKO them?
I just don't see what it accomplishes better than the Guts set. I guess dealing with Spiritomb without recoil is nice, but are there any notable advantages of using it that I should be aware of?
I just don't see what it accomplishes better than the Guts set. I guess dealing with Spiritomb without recoil is nice, but are there any notable advantages of using it that I should be aware of?
It can stick around for longer, the opponent can't toxic stall it with immunities and protect and OHKOs Sandslash and Weezing after rocks without needing the orb activated.
It does a ton to Doublade (especially if Modest) too
You're thinking of Water Veil. Water Absorb and Defog are compatible ZoraFinn.
It OHKO's Sandslash? Holy shit, well then, that's almost reason enough to run haha
No, if you're going to use Mantine, it's because of its access to Defog.
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