That's what I thought.I've been using it since forever and while it is good, I don't think it is at the level where it should be banned. Depending on the coverage move, it is completely walled by Dragonite, Heatran, Salamence, or Terakion, along with some other pokemon I can't recall right now. A 4x SR weakness also bites, even though it can be worked around. Also, all of the common weather abusers can outspeed after 1 BD, although that point is somewhat moot after the latest bans. +1 Jolly Bug buzz also fail to KO a garchomp at max health, although jolly yache/haban garchomp needs stone edge to be able to guarantee a kill at max health. Scarf Landlos also outspeeds. I would consider volcarona to be top OU, not uber. Although I'm pretty sure it could perform pretty well there.
first of all surely there are many more heatrans out there than u tell there are...you are way exaggerating...Heatran's been unviable in a metagame littered with Rain, Landos, and Dory, with the possible exception of Tormentran if it sets up.
Yeah... never thought I'd be saying THAT.
Heatran can tank a surf if need be, but he's lower than Latios, and sure can't tank two. Heatran isn't going to be OHKO'ing anyway. Heatran is FAR from a Latios check, and if it's Specs DM'ing everywhere, Heatran's not going to be switching in too many times.
Timid Specs Latios Draco Meteor v 252/252 Calm Heatran [Who runs THAT?]: 30.6% - 36%
Now let's use a more standard Heatran, SubTran:
Timid Specs Latios v Subtran [4 Sp.Def, 0 HP]: 50.2% - 59.4%
noone said that it counters latios...but with hp investement yes he checks him pretty damn good!Heatran is NOT a counter, or even a half decent check.
Isn't Erufuun already a better Subseeder?Does anyone else feel that...
Ludicolo@Leftovers
Nature: Defensive nature
EVs: Defensive spread
-Substitute
-Leech seed
-Giga drain
-Filler
In the rain is EXTREMELY hard to take down?
Sorry, i forgot to mention the ability for it is rain dish. Leftovers + Rain Dish + Leech Seed means you're actually gaining HP when you sub.Isn't Erufuun already a better Subseeder?
Run Spiritomb, Stableye, Latias with CM + Roar etc. It can be really annoying though.How've people been checking Reuniclus? That thing's really annoying to me, the only thing that I can stop it with is a Tyranitar with Crunch.
Switch in Terrakion while it uses Calm Mind, STONE EDGE THAT BITCH UP, die a manly death to Psychic/Psycho Shock, revenge kill it with something else.How've people been checking Reuniclus? That thing's really annoying to me, the only thing that I can stop it with is a Tyranitar with Crunch.
Not sure if you're joking or not but:Switch in Terrakion while it uses Calm Mind, STONE EDGE THAT BITCH UP, die a manly death to Psychic/Psycho Shock, revenge kill it with something else.
You forgot that Terrakion's Stone Edge has 100 Acc and 75% CH rate against Reuniclus.Not sure if you're joking or not but:
Choice Band 252 Atk Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Rankurusu = 49% - 58%
After Leftovers, Rank is at around 55% health (and note that the calc assumed Choice Band). How the heck does that 'usually work?'
Lugia actually has some pretty hard counters, believe it or not. Lileep is by far the best, due to suction cups. It also has worry seed to prevent lugia from sleep stalling. However, he needs rest if he wants to win the toxic stalling war.Okay, why is it that every time there is a suspect test that some people seriously suggest "testing" Lugia/Ho-Oh in OU? It's NEVER going to happen. If things like Darkrai, Shaymin, Manaphy, Deoxys, etc are problems (which we all know they are since they have been tested), what on earth is going to make Lugia/Ho-Oh tolerable? Because they're weak to Stealth Rock? That is a pathetic argument. They both have Roost/Recover, are insanely bulky, pretty fast (Ho-Oh has Nitro Charge of doom), and hit hard. Lugia's offensive stats aren't as immediately threatening as some things but they don't need to be, 90 is quite acceptable combined with 110 base speed and being a pain to kill. One shouldn't also assume uber spreads as well, Lugia can afford to go all out as an offensive attacker (it sometimes does in Ubers and is surprisingly effective even there, let alone in OU with stab Aeroblast and bulk) or defender. And seriously, Lugia would not die in OU. I'd post calcs but I have to find them (because I once calculated a bunch of calcs and explanations the last time it was suggested Ho-Oh/Lugia be tested on why they are NEVER OU material. The only way they'd be OU is if everything dropped and it became the new uber tier).
And seriously...NO. Lugia doesn't have to be defensive. Stab Calm Mind Aeroblasts would wreak havoc in OU resisted by Rock/Steel only and coincidentally could have a high chance of critical hitting. It can also be annoying and Trick you into acceptabing a Choice Item (even lol Choice Band Lugia can be good with Trick, Punishment, Zen Headbutt, Sky Attack, Aqua Tail, etc but not all the above of course). And after 1 Calm Mind, a Life Orb Aeroblast 2 hit koes (with slight other damage) max hp/max sdef Nattorei. If that is a critical (twice the chance of normal moves and it will crit eventually) it can ohko you. It's best potential killer in OU is Tyranitar and with Reflect, not even Choice Band can take Lugia down in two hits the defensive one. Are you serious??? Seriously, why on earth is there need to test it? If weaker things in Ubers (Deoxys, Darkrai, Manaphy, etc) that didn't see as much use in the Uber tier in the end were huge problems, why on earth would some of the most common ubers be even considered?
-Gosh dang it, I miss by a page.
Yes,because Lileep would be very common in OU/sarcasmLugia actually has some pretty hard counters, believe it or not. Lileep is by far the best, due to suction cups. It also has worry seed to prevent lugia from sleep stalling. However, he needs rest if he wants to win the toxic stalling war.
That doesn't change the fact that he does in fact have counters. Also, blissey/chansey wall him pretty badly too. She may get phazed out, but lugia will get poisoned or paralyzed in the process.Yes,because Lileep would be very common in OU/sarcasm
Lugia's counters are few and rare T_T
Shedinja can wall Kyogre all day,it doesn't mean jack when Shedinja sucks against everything else.That doesn't change the fact that he does in fact have counters. Also, blissey/chansey wall him pretty badly too. She may get phazed out, but lugia will get poisoned or paralyzed in the process.
Reposting to try to get a new discussion moving.So without Swift Swim and Manaphy is rain still as threatening as before? I feel I think perma-rain might start drifting towards rain stall or bulky offense. Opinions?
Has anyone tried out Sniper Kingdra? I've tried a bulkier Focus Energy set but found it to be rather mediocre.
I assume you would argue for Kyogre to be unbanned because Quagsire/Gastrodon counter it, Groudon to be unbanned because it can't do jack to Tangrowth/Skarmory without Overheat, Darkrai because Sleep Talk Heracross rips it apart, Garchomp because Icicle Spear Cloyster beats it, Skymin because Buffarroon beats it, etc.That doesn't change the fact that he does in fact have counters.