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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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On the subject of Cloyster King's Rock is actually a very good item to put on him.With it Cloyster has 40% chance iirc to flinch the opponent when using one of its 2 multi hit moves...
Also is Scope Lens worth it on Cloyster?
Can someone make the calcs that show what is the chance of Icicle Spear or Rock Blast hits to crit at least once?
Also is Scope Lens worth it on Cloyster?
Can someone make the calcs that show what is the chance of Icicle Spear or Rock Blast hits to crit at least once?
With White Herb, you tank Excadrill's unboosted Earthquake and then KO him.
Quagsire can prevent a sweep, but he's Rapid Spin fodder for Cloyster.
Yeah, Cloyster wouldn't work at all as a straight-up Spinner. You'd definitely have to use as an opportune thing, rather than switching in just to Spin.
Although, if you set-up on the switch, Gengar loses.
It still is a Shell Smasher, just without Water STAB, which I don't think is necessary anyway.
You know, I'm gonna go try RS Cloyster, so I can actually talk with certainty.
Cryogonal's problem is that it kinda has to be a Defensive Spinner, but it's weak to SR and has only one resistance, making it very hard to switch in. And then its low Defense allows physical 'mons to just force you out, creating the switch-in problem again. Cryogonal's problem is that it's a defensive Ice-type.
There's a 48.7% chance it crits once with Scope Lens (calc: 1 - ((1 - .125)^5) = 48.7%). If it crits once that increases the effective power to 150, the same as the 1.2 boost from expert belt on a super effective hit and less than the boost from life orb.
I also believe, though someone else should probably confirm this (I'm not sure if I did this second calculation correctly), that the probability of getting two crits is about 28.5%. Two crits means 175 power, which is only out-damaged by Choice Band (which, by eliminating Shell Smash, seems to defeat the purpose of using Cloyster.
tl;dr Life Orb is more consistent IMO, and I would think Kings Rock is probably a better gimmick item to use on Cloyster.
meh, I still feel Life Orb Cloyster is picked apart by priority.
Though I didn't pick up on the Icicle Plate method, you'll find one of my posts two pages back on that same thread arguing something similar. I still feel White Herb is a better item than LO, since it allows Cloyster to sweep almost unhindered in the right conditions, those being you have a bit of damage on Ferrothorn, Skarmory, etc. before you setup for that one good sweep.
Volcarona is as dangerous as hell. Nothing likes to take a +6 +6 +6 moth in the sun. Even Blissey takes like 70 percent with fireblast. The best way to deal with it is to see if it has morning sun or a coverage move. If it has morning sun, then you have to offensively kill it with salamence or D-nite. If it has hp ice, blisseys could be able to deal with it. without letting it get up to +6. Which means you are forced to switch around until you know whats up.
On the cloyster topic, even after +2, it is still a little weak. for example, pokes that resist ice and rock(like registeel) can easily wall it and cripple it. Razor shell has a horrible base power. I think Gorybyss is much more dangerous.
However, one of the things that I really hate is baton pass. Espeon with stored power OHKOed my spdef jirachi. Thats insane. If I switch to quagsire, celebi comes in and kills me. Baton Pass, IMO, is tooo easy to win with.
On the cloyster topic, even after +2, it is still a little weak. for example, pokes that resist ice and rock(like registeel) can easily wall it and cripple it. Razor shell has a horrible base power. I think Gorybyss is much more dangerous.
However, one of the things that I really hate is baton pass. Espeon with stored power OHKOed my spdef jirachi. Thats insane. If I switch to quagsire, celebi comes in and kills me. Baton Pass, IMO, is tooo easy to win with.
What Volcarona runs HP Ice?
Even without Sun, a +6 Lefties Fire Blast OHKOes Blissey (unlikely without SR support, though).
Where is Volcarona getting +6 from anyway?
Who uses Registeel?Prankster said:
Also, a +2 Gorebyss is more powerful, but incredibly Scarfer-weak due to its pitiful base Speed.
By the way, Cloyster's main coverage move (Rock Blast) is stronger than Gorebyss' main coverage move (Ice Beam or HP, idk), meaning that Gorebyss isn't even stronger all the time. Plus, Cloyster has more physical bulk.
tl;dr Cloyster > Gorebyss as a sweeper, Gorebyss should Pass it or not be used
Blightbringer
Banned deucer.
The thing is Perish Song can be Taunted, and you still have to live through a hit to sing. Not to mention some teams also use Mr. Mime. Also, Stored Power smashes through Unaware--it's powered up normally, meaning Quagsire can't even hope to wall a 420 power (at least) hit.
Why don't people use Cloyster on Rain teams? It gets a 270 power Hydro Pump so it doesn't even have to invest in Special Attack or use a different nature to wreck Skarmory, Metagross, etc. after a Shell Smash.
Why don't people use Cloyster on Rain teams? It gets a 270 power Hydro Pump so it doesn't even have to invest in Special Attack or use a different nature to wreck Skarmory, Metagross, etc. after a Shell Smash.
Blightbringer
Banned deucer.
Xatu works too, since its Haze can't be Taunted. You do have to be careful, since a lot of Baton Pass teams also use Zapdos. Murkrow definitely walls the shit out of Espeon though.
Alternatively, you could stick Taunt on something like Tyranitar, which can dismantle entire Baton Pass teams on its own. Really powerful Dragon Tails (from the likes of Haxorus, Salamence, etc.) can also stop Baton Pass chains if you manage to get in early.
Blightbringer
Banned deucer.
If you don't have Haze they'll just walk right over you... Even if you Perish Song they could probably kill you with boosted attacks and try to set up later; I've done that in similar situations, at least.
Haze allows you to reset everything immediately. Perish Song is "delayed-action" and you have to wait out 2 turns, FeatherDance only works for Attack boosts.
My early-game method for defeating Baton Pass chains is to slam them with choice banded attacks. In particular, CBtar. Out of all of the standard baton pass staples such as Ninjask, Vaporeon, Celebi, Zapdos, Togekiss, Smeargle, and Espeon, none of them resist Crunch. Usually they have to expose themselves to Defense drops and crits for a solid four or five turns before acquiring the boosts to force out a CBtar. Sometimes it doesn't work, but it definitely leaves a few holes punched in their team for your specially-inclined pokemon to wreck some havoc since they'll be so focused on attaining Acid Armor boosts in order to not be overwhelmed by Tyranitar, that they won't have time to Calm Mind. Especially since Calm Mind usually comes from Celebi who cannot take Choice Banded Crunches.
Stone Edge does the same trick too, but it has low PP and a miss against Baton Pass early-game is probably one of the most fatal misses you can experience. The Defense Drop from Crunches tend to overwhelm them more too.
Stone Edge does the same trick too, but it has low PP and a miss against Baton Pass early-game is probably one of the most fatal misses you can experience. The Defense Drop from Crunches tend to overwhelm them more too.
Baton pass teams are irritating, but generally I stop them before they set up whatsoever. If it's ninjask out first, I can just roar him after setting stealth rocks. If its anything else, rotom tricking a choice scarf pretty much kills one link from the chain.
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