np: RU Stage 4 - Deck the Halls

[hamiltonion]

Guys what do you think of Uxie? It's one of the most used Pokemon in the tier, and easily the best supporter. How can you stop it from setting up? It has a really nice speed for RU allowing it to easily put up Stealth Rock/ set up weather before any common taunters can stop it.

I ran some calcs against a max/max+ defensive uxie and there is nothing in the tier that can guarantee an OHKO against it, the closest being CB Durant(which is less than 80% thanks to Hustle) and CB Crawdaunt(Which is to slow)

The max hp/max speed set is arguably more difficult to handle, sure a few extra things can stop it from setting up(Rock Gem Head Smash Archeops)(CB Bug bite Scyther) but anything that had a chance of taunting it, like Qwilfish and maybe Mandibuzz are rendered useless.

The only thing that stops Uxie from being broken in my mind are the lack of Taunt or recovery. If it had access to either of those I would definitely support a ban, but at this point I just want a discussion about ways to handle it and stop it from setting up so easily.

Also, a list off the top of my head of moves uxie can use
Steal Rock/Sunny day/Rain Dance/Trick Room/Toxic/Thunder Wave/Yawn/U-Turn/Trick/Reflect/Light Screen and thats without even getting into the SubCm set which is just a bitch late game.

Finally:
| 1 | Uxie | 1674 | 8.102% |
2 | Uxie | 994 | 44.634% | 950 | 51.199% |
3 | Uxie | 3490 | 16.889% | 3229 | 18.418% |


Thats Uxie's usage as a lead, in the 1200+ metagame and the standard metagame.

Aaaah Uxie, its the one mon which you can stick on pretty much any team without a hitch. Thanks to its stupidly high Speed for a wall (in RU) and lack of Pokemon using Taunt, Uxie is really hard to stop. The only mons i can think of able to stop Uxie is pretty much fast Gligar with Taunt or Drapion with Taunt. Neither fear anything from Uxie and Drapion can even nonchalantly set up two layers of T Spikes in Uxie's face.

About your second point, that is what makes Uxie so awesome, in a pinch Uxie can pretty much live anything and paralyze it with Thunder Wave or deal it with an offensive move. Personally I love Uxie since it makes such as awesome lead with SR and U-Turn. U-Turn is really the best thing about Uxie which I like. It ensures Uxie is never setup bait and also keeps the momentum on your side. About Qwilfish stopping it is questionable imo since Qwilfish is easily 2HKOed by Psychic. I also disagree with you on the point that max hp / max def is the best since you're losing the best bit about Uxie: its bulk. Sure you're faster and Qwilfish cant taunt you now but even if it Taunted you, you could easily have predicted and gone to a Qwilfish check or gone on the offensive directly with Psychic. With defense investment, Uxie makes an excellent switch to pretty much any fighting type especially so if paired with another wall such as Gligar or Tangrowth.

Uxie isn't really broken but its really really versatile. Kinda like fourth gen Jirachi, how you would counter it depended on the set it ran. Also you miss Heal Bell in your list of moves. Even with lacking recovery, taunt and strong offensive options (mesprit), Uxie is still a top tier boss.

 

[gali]

Serperior can stop all variants of Uxie except the Trick variant with Taunt, but Whimsicott will do this better when it comes down..

 

[Raseri]

How could I forget Heal Bell? I run heal bell Uxie :P

and yes Serperior can stop Uxie from setting up and it can set up Dual Screens which actually makes it sound interesting, to bad its outclassed by other grass types at everything else

 

[alexwolf]

Well, the difference with Jirachi as a support mon in OU, and Uxie as a support mon in RU, is that most of the times Uxie is the number one choice for many support options not only special walling,paralyze spreading or wish passing.
For example Uxie is the best poke in many supporting factors like laying SR,keeping momentum with U-turn,setting up Dual Screens,setting up weather and spreading status.Of 'course there are other pokes that do Uxie's job better sometimes, but most of the times i feel that Uxie is undeniably the best support poke in the tier. I don't know if it is so much,that it deserves to be banned, but it surely is suspect-worthy.

As for Uxie counters,CB Krookodile does a number on it,2hkoing with Crunch even after Reflect(provided it is faster), and can even Pursuit for great damage.
Natu also stops the standard SR support Uxie cold. It also stalls turns from the DS set while also keeping the opponent at bay in fear of status,which prevents many sweepers to come in and setup.
Drapion is also a very good answer that can setup in Uxie's face and has Whirlwind and Pursuit to trap Uxie or prevent the CM version from getting too many boosts.
Finally, Aggron with Sub, Focus Punch, Magnet Rise and Head Smash is very good for handling Uxie, not fearing anything from Uxie (paralysis is annoying but nothing major) and setting up a sub no matter what Uxie does. And Aggron behind a sub is a very dangerous poke to face, especially if you rely on ground attacks to take him out. Claydol for example can do nothing, although it resists rock + fighting, because it can't hit you with anything else except from Ice Beam which only 2hkoes the sub.

tl;dr Natu, CB Krookodile, Drapion and SubPuch Aggron are all very good for handling Uxie!

 

[PK Gaming]

2 words.

CM Uxie.

That thing is a monster, and definitely my favorite special sweeper in the tier right now. Its got this awesome combination of bulk, acceptable power and SPEED. Seriously this thing is so fast, outspeeds that fucker Moltres and practically everything else thats relevant in this tier. Don't get me wrong, i'm not complaining I don't think its broken. Just top tier (and VERY fun to use) I use Thunderbolt as its coverage move to take down Krow and Moltres (seriously fuck those 2 Pokemon)

stray observations

• Aggron still kicks so much ass. I started using LO + SR, because I couldn't fit SR onto my other team members and lefties is too weak. Heavy Slam is really damn useful in RU because all of its targets are light as hell. Also, people forget it learns Aqua Tail -_?
  
• Move over Honchkrow, Moltres is the most annoying thing in this tier. That thing has like 2 reliable counters, and it can bypass its checks with lucky Air Slashes. Fucking hate this thing.
  
• More people should use bulky Rotom, that thing is the best spinblocker ever, even with Krookodile existing in the tier, it stuffs every single spinner in the tier barring Cryo.
  

 

[alexwolf]

So PK that mean that your CM Uxie has no way of hitting Krookodile?

 

[PK Gaming]

Hitting Moltres & Honckrow > Krookodile.

On top of this, you can always play around Krookodile before you deploy Uxie.

 

[alexwolf]

Yes sure,I was just asking... But if your concern is Moltres and Honchkrow you can always run Ice Beam instead of Tbolt since it also easily kills Honchkrow,Moltres can be setup on since you are faster and have CM and you gain the added bonus of being able to deal with Krookodile!

 

[Stratos]

I thought the same thing then I remembered Uxie doesn't get IB... HP ice just isnt the same.

I will probably get into this new RU meta soon because I've been super busy with the new Zelda games but I can't wait to see how Qwilfish leaving shakes things up! One thing I predict is that Claydol will drop in usage because they made a wicked core.

 

[hamiltonion]

On the topic of Aggron, SubPunch is absolutely insane. With Magnet Rise (dont bother with Ice Punch, Gligar will still be a dick) you troll a whole lot of Pokemon who could otherwise kill you with EQ. For example if I have a Sub up, Scarf Krook becomes setup bait as I just Magnet Rise and set up another sub. Setting up a Sub is so easy it isnt even funny and Head Smash means something is going down, even Bulky Ghosts like Cofagrigus take a hell of a lot of damage. This monster is the perfect check to stuff like Honchkrow (no SuperPower) and Swellow.

Also with Krookodile leaving, the only other offensive Rotom check thats left is Drapion. Its decently good and has a few support options in T Spikes, Whirlwind but its really weak compared to Krookodile but bulkier and faster. I think this sccopion will see a spike in usage with Krook leaving (;-;). Yes I know theres another Pokemon named Skuntank but I REFUSE TO COMPARE Skuntank to Krookodile.

 

[Rakan]

Did everyone just completely forget about Typhlosion? It seems like I'm the only one who uses him anymore. He needs more love :(

Scarf Typhlosion outspeeds Scarf P-Z, Scarf Moltres (granted it has nothing to hit it with bar HP Rock but w/e), Scarf Krook, Scarf Rotom, and more. Eruption at full health OHKOes bascially anything that doesn't resist it bar super specially defensive mons etc. Typhlosion is so good...

On the subject of SubCM Uxie, that thing is a complete monster. I nearly got swept by it once or twice - I think the main reason it is so effective though is because of the surprise factor. People try to set up Uxie thinking it is the Support variant only to be set up on and eventually swept. When I first saw Uxie with a Life Orb I was like WTF.

Aggron is also quite good, the SubPunch set is my favorite. As barry said, a Sub is remarkably easy to set up, and Aggron has good coverage moves to back it up. I personally haven't used Aggron that much but I know it's good from my experiences battling against it.

 

[Thatsjustpeachy]

Did everyone just completely forget about Typhlosion? It seems like I'm the only one who uses him anymore. He needs more love :(

Scarf Typhlosion outspeeds Scarf P-Z, Scarf Moltres (granted it has nothing to hit it with bar HP Rock but w/e), Scarf Krook, Scarf Rotom, and more. Eruption at full health OHKOes bascially anything that doesn't resist it bar super specially defensive mons etc. Typhlosion is so good...

On the subject of SubCM Uxie, that thing is a complete monster. I nearly got swept by it once or twice - I think the main reason it is so effective though is because of the surprise factor. People try to set up Uxie thinking it is the Support variant only to be set up on and eventually swept. When I first saw Uxie with a Life Orb I was like WTF.

Aggron is also quite good, the SubPunch set is my favorite. As barry said, a Sub is remarkably easy to set up, and Aggron has good coverage moves to back it up. I personally haven't used Aggron that much but I know it's good from my experiences battling against it.

I stopped using typhlosion after all the Trickroom teams forced everyone to pack priorities and Typhlosion needed alot of support. Typhlosion is really hit or miss for me. Sometimes it can just cleave through a team and other times its set up bait. Moltres is more reliable in that it will always put on the presssure, rarely letting the opponent set up.

Aggron is really good, not much can switch into it safely and its really easy to put yourself behind a sub. It also serves as a good honchkrow counter which is the main reason i use it.

Another thing that i notice is that more Crustles are on the rise. I thought i was the only one using that thing. It beats lead uxies(non scarfed) easily if its a shell smash set and unprepared teams can easily lose 2-3 pokemons to it since it has sturdy too. It serves as a good counter to that annoying level 1 smeargle with rock blast which i think is the reason why most people use it. Sometimes my opponents will overthink that i use a shell smash set but that lets me get up multiple hazards as they switch around preparing for shell smash. Very underrated pokemon

 

[Molk]

ill have to say, aggron is an excellent pokemon with the subpunch set, very good check to moxiekrow, and cock blocks its usual counters, its head smash is powerful enough to break most walls, and focus punch obliterates most steels.

speaking of honch counters, stunfisk still performs well in a defensive role. countering all honchkrow and certain other threats, for example can also stop choice rotom in its tracks as long as it doesnt switch into leaf storm (actually a specially defensive spread survives but that its not the point) and ironically, it makes a good check to aggron (it can take even a CB earthquake lol) taking about 30% from focus punch, resisting head smash, and being able to spread status, a fun pokemon to use if you need a hard counter to honchkrow, rotom(and rotom-s), and possibly even aggron lol

edit: counters klinklang too

 

[Tomahawk]

Can someone explain to me why Moltres is not broken?

 

[sheniqua]

moltres only has 90 base speed meaning its outspeed by many of the top threats in the tier including P-Z, krookodile, typhlosion, rotom-n, sharpedo, and many other things. that along with the 4x weakness to stealth rock means that moltres wont be surviving very long. It is good, but not broken at all.

 

[Avira]

Moltres is let down primarily by its SR weakness. It hits really hard and even bulky waters need considerable special defense investment to take it on, but they fortunately do not have to take too many hits because Moltres will not live very long unless you can spin away SR (or prevent them from getting down in the first place). In my experience, the ghosts have more survivability than the spinners in this tier, which helps to keep Moltres in check. Having said that, I do think that Moltres is a much bigger threat than Honchkrow is since less things can reliably take its attacks.

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

Moltres is let down primarily by its SR weakness. It hits really hard and even bulky waters need considerable special defense investment to take it on, but they fortunately do not have to take too many hits because Moltres will not live very long unless you can spin away SR (or prevent them from getting down in the first place). In my experience, the ghosts have more survivability than the spinners in this tier, which helps to keep Moltres in check. Having said that, I do think that Moltres is a much bigger threat than Honchkrow is since less things can reliably take its attacks.

I feel like nobody uses a LO lead Moltres anymore, other than me. Seriously, that is the best way to use Moltres, because there are really no safe switch-ins. The only thing that can take two hits and hope to do any damage back is Slowking, but because no one would expect a Moltres to stay in on Slowking, you can stay in and nail the 3HKO while they try to set up. Also, if you play Moltres in the lead position and don't switch, you never have to worry about SR. Moltres can easily take out two or three mons at the beginning of the game, which makes it so much easier to pull off a sweep at the end of the game. I completely agree with the statement that Moltres is a bigger threat than Honchkrow when played correctly.

 

[Molk]

I feel like nobody uses a LO lead Moltres anymore, other than me. Seriously, that is the best way to use Moltres, because there are really no safe switch-ins. The only thing that can take two hits and hope to do any damage back is Slowking, but because no one would expect a Moltres to stay in on Slowking, you can stay in and nail the 3HKO while they try to set up. Also, if you play Moltres in the lead position and don't switch, you never have to worry about SR. Moltres can easily take out two or three mons at the beginning of the game, which makes it so much easier to pull off a sweep at the end of the game. I completely agree with the statement that Moltres is a bigger threat than Honchkrow when played correctly.

yeah, life orb moltres is a huge threat and most pokemon cant take two hits from it, the stealth rock weakness is easily neutered by rapid spin and natu, i somewhat agree that moltres should be suspect just for that power and coverage, honchkrow is starting to fit into the tier more and more, seriously. Honchkrow isnt even broken anymore, i doubt it will get banned. it has two hard counters in stunfisk and regirock (both of which have uses outside of that) and plenty of viable checks such as klinklang, rhydon, steelix, and such. seriously honchkrow isnt broken, leave the bird alone.

in other news, the other broken bird (sigilyph) is moving down soon, from calcs ive done rotom is really a good check, still nearly OHKOing after siggy has boosted. :D

 

[sheniqua]

Do all of the tier shifts happen tomorrow? I thought that it took Antar and the stat guys a couple of weeks to put everything together.

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

in other news, the other broken bird (sigilyph) is moving down soon, from calcs ive done rotom is really a good check, still nearly OHKOing after siggy has boosted. :D

I'm just saying, if people are complaining about Honchkrow, Sigilyph isnt going to last more than a month in RU. Especially if i have anything to say about it, I hate that thing.

 

[Double01]

Can someone list of all the pokes moving down so far I've heard aero, sigi, whimsicott, nidoqueen. I've also heard weavile is comin down if that's true I'm definitely putting him on my team ;). Anyways Ive been gone for like a week for vacation and probably have missed some updates. Clarification of pokes moving down and up would be much appreciated.

Peace, Double01

 

[The Goddamn Batman]

Can someone list of all the pokes moving down so far I've heard aero, sigi, whimsicott, nidoqueen. I've also heard weavile is comin down if that's true I'm definitely putting him on my team ;). Anyways Ive been gone for like a week for vacation and probably have missed some updates. Clarification of pokes moving down and up would be much appreciated.

Peace, Double01

I second this request. Also, where has anyone heard that these are the specific Pokemon? Is this just based on usage?

 

[EonADS]

If Weavile actually does come down we'll still have a reasonable answer to Uxie, which is nice.

And yes, the predicted drops are based on usage.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Sigilyph, Aerodactly, Spiritomb, Cresslia, Golurk, Wimisicott

 

[EonADS]

Goddamn all of this.

No Krookodile. The most reliable Psychic-killer leaves just as all the bulky Psychics drop. This is why I don't believe in coincidence.

Qwilfish stays. Goddammit.

Aerodactyl. Normally I'd be crying foul, but Cress and Sigilyph are so bad I can't even bring myself to bitch about him. He won't be nearly as bad as he would've been without them, especially since Qwilfish is staying.

Cresselia. No. My god get it the hell out of here. Even if Krook was still here I'd be saying hell no.

Sigilyph. No. Almost as bad if not just as bad as Cress. At least you can kill this thing with Rock-, Ice-, or Electric-types moves but Magic Guard is just a complete bitch.

Whimsicott. Ugh. Well, at least the damn thing doesn't get Sleep Powder.

Golurk. Actually seems like it might be fun. A good offensive spinblocker too.

Spiritomb. Undecided.

Medicham usage will take a complete nosedive this month. Likely the same for some of the other Fighting-types. Gallade is probably going to stay though, the Bulk Up set loves setting up on bulky Psychics.