np: RU Stage 4 - Deck the Halls

[gali]

Cress's back?
FFF-
But Sigilyph will be worse tbh.

 

[SilentVerse]

Krook leaving is definitely going to hurt, and the drops are going to be pretty bad imo, but I'm actually pleased since at least something dropped to help fill the void left by Krook's departure. Spiritomb is definitely much worse than Krook when it comes to Psychic-killing, but it seems like it'll be at least a decent check to most of the drops; CB Spiritomb does a ton to Aero, Golurk gets trapped if it doesn't have a sub up, and CB Pursuit / Shadow Sneak at least does a good chunk to Sigilyph and Cresselia (not to mention that those two have run coverage other than HP Fighting to hit Spiritomb). I think that Spiritomb might prove to be a very effective Pokemon in this meta with all this in mind, though Sigilyph and Cresselia are still going to be hard on the tier.

 

[Double01]

Taunters are going to be a must on most teams now. Especially with dealing with sigi and cress. Uxie was a bitch now cress is going to be a bigger one. Hone claws aerodactyl sounds interesting. Golurk is gonna give the tier a good offensive spin blocker which should be nice. Not sure how this tier will turn out but hopes it's for the best!

 

[Thatsjustpeachy]

The holidays are not kind to RU :(


Stall is going to become very strong which is quite unfortunate considering there was a good balance this round. It doesn't help that Krookodile is leaving too. Spiritomb isn't going to help that much against Cresselia even with CB, its best bet is probably a Monoattacking CM set. Spiritomb will be ok in dealing with the psychic threats but it will need help for sure.

 

[Double01]

Life orb aerodactyl is going to be a great stall breaker with being to taunt every poke first barring pranksters. It may not have a lot of power but with taunt it can easily handle pokes such as cress and sigi. I'm definitely going to be using aero over klinklang on my team since aero is also a decent chack to honch resisting both stabs and killing it with stone edge. At first I was worried about cress and sigi but now that I have thought about it a little bit they shouldn't be to terrible with aero and whimsicott coming down. Of course they are going to be an elite threat but they will be manageable.

Peace, Double01

 

[gali]

Aerodactyl doesn't resist Sucker Punch.
Also, I can see Whimsicott being used over Volbeat on weather teams.

 

[Thatsjustpeachy]

Life orb aerodactyl is going to be a great stall breaker with being to taunt every poke first barring pranksters. It may not have a lot of power but with taunt it can easily handle pokes such as cress and sigi. I'm definitely going to be using aero over klinklang on my team since aero is also a decent chack to honch resisting both stabs and killing it with stone edge. At first I was worried about cress and sigi but now that I have thought about it a little bit they shouldn't be to terrible with aero and whimsicott coming down. Of course they are going to be an elite threat but they will be manageable.

Peace, Double01

If Cress has ice beam than Aerodactyl doesn't have a chance. It's pretty bad against stall even with taunt, a few attacks(or 1), LO recoil, SR weakness and its downed pretty easily. It might make a good late game cleaner in general and possibly finish up a weakened stall team but not as a primary stall breaker. Also Aerodactyl is definitely not a decent check to honchkrow and does not resist Dark type moves. LO stall with subs to get in range of Sucker Punch to KO or its already in KO range from an unboosted suckerpunch after SR. I do agree that Whimsicott is a good answer to Cress and Sigi with proper support but i still think they will be too much for the metagame

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Don't forget the old standby Substitute/Protect/Toxic/Fly Aerodactyl who can pressure stall Honchkrows Sucker Punches :3

 

[Sabinfrost]

The biggest new threat by far is Whimsicott IMO, it's pretty damn bulky on the physical side as it isn't required to run any speed investment, it's also the quickest sub-seeder in the game and can happily run leftovers. It can encore any set up sweeper or Pokemon that goes for a status move only to have it hit it's sub and proceed to troll with leech seed and toxic... and unfortunately that's not all it can do. Whimsicott is a monster troll, even in OU, the fact it's in RU just shows people haven't been playing it right.

 

[Molk]

The biggest new threat by far is Whimsicott IMO, it's pretty damn bulky on the physical side as it isn't required to run any speed investment, it's also the quickest sub-seeder in the game and can happily run leftovers. It can encore any set up sweeper or Pokemon that goes for a status move only to have it hit it's sub and proceed to troll with leech seed and toxic... and unfortunately that's not all it can do. Whimsicott is a monster troll, even in OU, the fact it's in RU just shows people haven't been playing it right.

whimsicott seems decent, until you realize, pokemon with sap sipper exist, and hard counter whimsicott -_-.

btw, my old RU team is still working out, especially with spiritomb over rotom :D

edit: duosion and sigilyph also eats whimsicott alive with magic guard :D

 

[Avira]

The biggest new threat by far is Whimsicott IMO, it's pretty damn bulky on the physical side as it isn't required to run any speed investment, it's also the quickest sub-seeder in the game and can happily run leftovers. It can encore any set up sweeper or Pokemon that goes for a status move only to have it hit it's sub and proceed to troll with leech seed and toxic... and unfortunately that's not all it can do. Whimsicott is a monster troll, even in OU, the fact it's in RU just shows people haven't been playing it right.

Whimsicott is not even remotely threatening in RU. 60 85 defense is not bulky even with EV investment. Any half decent player won't be using status moves against Whimsicott so the scenario you described just wouldn't happen. Also, a set of Substitute, Encore, Leech Seed, and Toxic is a terrible set that does absolutely nothing to Grass types like Ferroseed and Roselia, who are all firmly RU. Another downside of Whimsicott is that it cannot switch into a vast majority of the tier, and yes, that includes defensive Pokemon because of status moves that completely cripple Whimsicott. It being RU has nothing to do with misuse, but just that it is a terrible Pokemon that is a fourth rate Sableye. The latter has reliable recovery, and a way to cripple physical attackers with Will-o-Wisp. Whimsicott is nothing but a mediocre Pokemon with a very small niche and this shows with the tiering difference between it and Sableye.

 

[Sabinfrost]

Whimsicott is not even remotely threatening in RU. 60 85 defense is not bulky even with EV investment. Any half decent player won't be using status moves against Whimsicott so the scenario you described just wouldn't happen. Also, a set of Substitute, Encore, Leech Seed, and Toxic is a terrible set that does absolutely nothing to Grass types like Ferroseed and Roselia, who are all firmly RU. Another downside of Whimsicott is that it cannot switch into a vast majority of the tier, and yes, that includes defensive Pokemon because of status moves that completely cripple Whimsicott. It being RU has nothing to do with misuse, but just that it is a terrible Pokemon that is a fourth rate Sableye. The latter has reliable recovery, and a way to cripple physical attackers with Will-o-Wisp. Whimsicott is nothing but a mediocre Pokemon with a very small niche and this shows with the tiering difference between it and Sableye.

I disagree.

It's hugely threatening when played right even in higher tiers, most of them are 252 HP and defense, which is bulky enough not to get ohkoed, meaning you can seed your opponent, take a hit, and then proceed to sub stall.

There are hard counters to it, yes, but it also encores them into whatever move they chose allowing you to switch into them freely.

Whimsicott does a lot that Sableye does not, Sableye has advantages over Whimsicott but it's in no way a "fourth rate" Sableye. It requires a bit of prediction to be effective but it's still a fantastic Pokemon.

whimsicott seems decent, until you realize, pokemon with sap sipper exist, and hard counter whimsicott -_-.

Whimsicott can toxic/sub stall those opponents and prevent them setting up. There are a decent amount of counters for Whimsicott, but it's still a terrific Pokemon.

 

[Molk]

I disagree.

It's hugely threatening when played right even in higher tiers, most of them are 252 HP and defense, which is bulky enough not to get ohkoed, meaning you can seed your opponent, take a hit, and then proceed to sub stall.

There are hard counters to it, yes, but it also encores them into whatever move they chose allowing you to switch into them freely.

Whimsicott does a lot that Sableye does not, Sableye has advantages over Whimsicott but it's in no way a "fourth rate" Sableye. It requires a bit of prediction to be effective but it's still a fantastic Pokemon.



Whimsicott can toxic/sub stall those opponents and prevent them setting up. There are a decent amount of counters for Whimsicott, but it's still a terrific Pokemon.

toxic is an inferior option on whimsicott, it NEEDS priority taunt to function, like at all, to stop set up sweepers in their tracks, encore has only limited PP, and you can simply switch out of it.

how does your whimsicott set handle sigilyph? or duosion for that matter, they can just attack as you encore, and if siggy is using air slash, your fucked

 

[Double01]

Whimsicott is just an alright mon with prankster ability. It has a few hard counters but if played correctly it can be a nuisance. I personally thing cress and sigi are the mons we should be worrying about. Cress is just too bulky for the meta to handle :/.

 

[Rakan]

Whimsicott is just another simple annoyance. I wouldn't consider it a serious threat at all. Grass-types wall it, the newly dropped Sigilyph laughs at it, and tere are plenty of ways to deal with it. It was overhyped in OU and that's why it is now in RU.

 

[Sabinfrost]

toxic is an inferior option on whimsicott, it NEEDS priority taunt to function, like at all, to stop set up sweepers in their tracks, encore has only limited PP, and you can simply switch out of it.

how does your whimsicott set handle sigilyph? or duosion for that matter, they can just attack as you encore, and if siggy is using air slash, your fucked

Magic Guard counters Whimsicott unless it's running Worry Seed. Which canny players might in order to deal with Sigilyph, who often burns itself with Flame Orb making it even more hilarious.

Taunt is not essential, you can take it over Encore but you can also Encore them into a set up move, and proceed to leech seed, toxic and troll away. Priority Encore means you're always going to be able to lock them into it again when it wears off, even if it's boosting their speed. It completely stops anything trying to set up on it.

The only main use for taunt that isn't covered by sub or encore is stopping hazards from going up and the occasional sub, though if they sub you encore them into sub and switch a Pokemon into them, you can also seed before the sub goes down.

Whimsicott loves it when Pokemon boost on it, especially when it's completely obvious. Switching into a predicted Shell Smash and encoring the opponent into it is one example of this, I've down that to Omastar enough times in UU (though in that example if Omastar predicts around it, Whimsicott eats an ice beam so it's not a perfect strategy).

 

[Honko]

I like the changes other than Cressy joining and Krook leaving. Sigilyph is being super duper overhyped, and everything else is a solid addition to the tier that will make it better in the long run (except Whimsicott who won't make any impact at all after the first week).

 

[Cherub Agent]

i forgot about worry seed, that can work.

I'm gonna use SD Taunt Drapion, he's a highly effective bulky sweeper in this meta

 

[marilli]

Woah, this literally changes everything. Everything that drops, other than Whimsicott, is gonna make a huge impact. I guess its biggest niche is priority 8-turn weather, but we had that already in Volbeat with the same priority Encore and Weather. I guess the SR neutrality over weakness is something, but not a massive upgrade. Subseeder sucks when the most common threats will be sigilyph, and there's Bouffalant and Sawsbuck if defensive boosting is not your cup of tea.

Golurk looks pretty cool, I guess, but idk I never liked him. I'd still go for Rotom if I'm looking for an offensive Ghost-type, you know. Aero would be a great lategame cleaner, and an overall upgrade from Archeops. He comes at the cost of getting walled by a lot of physical walls like Tangrowth, but we'll see if they become common or not.

Spiritomb is no Krookodile, but thank god there's another bulky Dark-type in the tier other than Drapion.

 

[Sabinfrost]

The more I look over the status Drapion is really identifying itself as a huge threat in my mind, with the new arrivals I feel it's the perfect anti-metagame Pokemon.

 

[complete legitimacy]

I haven't tested this due to the server being down, but I've come up with a new Gallade check. Slowking with a spread of 248 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpA / 4 SpD Bold will always break standard Gallade's Substitute with Surf. You take physical hits exactly the same as you would with the on-site spread, but you do take special hits slightly worse. This allows Slowking not to become set-up fodder and can check most if not all versions of Bulk Up Gallade, especially since more and more are using Ice Punch to beat things like Tangrowth, Honchkrow, and Gligar.

 

[alexwolf]

^But then you miss the awesome Scald and you get 2hkoed by Moltres's LO HP Grass iirc. Also assuming you switch into Gallade,he is still going to attain 3-4 boosts before it goes down from Surf. And at +4 i am almost sure that it ohkoes Slowking and many fast frail attackers with Shadow Sneak.

Now about the tier changes... I don't think that Cresselia will be as bad as many are saying. It is bulky as hell sure but if it isn't a CM variant then it is setup fodder for many pokes and if it is a CM variant it's coverage is still going to be shitty depending on the second move it carries. It also gets checked pretty well by our newcomer Spiritomb!

I think that Sigilyph is going to be much worse than Cresselia... Although having more weaknesses and less initiate bulk hurts, being way faster, being able to increase your defense while at the same time powering up your offense (Stored Power), and finally being immune to any passive damage are more then enough to make up for those!

All the other pokes are welcome and will be nice additions to RU!

 

[gali]

I've been laddering a bit, and Sigilyph's not as big a threat as I thought. It's good, but I can usually take it down pretty easily.

 

[No Luck Involved]

Played some RU today for the first time in like forever, feels good! To celebrate RU being as fun as it ever was, I've dug up an old warstory in my sig ^^)

 

[Rakan]

Actually in my opinion, SubSeed isn't Whimsicott's most dangerous aspect. The fact that it has priority Stun Spore which shits over basically anything without Sap Sipper, can definitely screw up teams. It doesn't even need to use SubSeed; Subseed is completely overrated in my opinion. Earlier today I got parahaxed by some n00b who paralyzed my entire team :(

That being said, I don't think Whimsicott is the least bit broken. Annoying, sure, but certainly not "broken." All of the new RU mons are welcome additions (with the exception of Cresselia of course), and it'll definitely be interesting to test them out!