Metagame NP: RU Stage 6: Heavy Metal and Reflective (ALL 3 SUSPECTS BANNED, DISCUSSING POST BANS META NOW)

[Lemonade]

Also someone please can explain to me what B value? And where I see it

From the op

Just like the last suspect tests, the reqs will be 2400 coil with a B value of 20.0 (unless one of you guys that can see the ppad thinks they should be changed, they are fine imo), and the suspect test will end/voting will begin exactly two weeks after the date this post was made.

It's basically used to calculate how many games you need to get 2400 COIL at a certain GXE

Also from OP

N=20.0/log2(40*GXE/2400)

 

[Metalhand]

From the op

Just like the last suspect tests, the reqs will be 2400 coil with a B value of 20.0 (unless one of you guys that can see the ppad thinks they should be changed, they are fine imo), and the suspect test will end/voting will begin exactly two weeks after the date this post was made.

It's basically used to calculate how many games you need to get 2400 COIL at a certain GXE

Also from OP

N=20.0/log2(40*GXE/2400)

Sorry if i'm annoying but its my first time seriously taking part in suspect test. in the formula, what "log2" representing?(the link not working at moment for me).

 

[Lemonade]

Sorry if i'm annoying but its my first time seriously taking part in suspect test. in the formula, what "log2" representing?(the link not working at moment for me).

Log base 2 I think, you can try it out with the numbers given

You can just go on wolfram alpha and type log base 2 of blah etc and it'll do it for you

also idk why there is a link

 

[Ares]

Sorry if i'm annoying but its my first time seriously taking part in suspect test. in the formula, what "log2" representing?(the link not working at moment for me).

I don't even bother with the math, I just ladder until I have reqs. Pretty much the higher your GXE is the faster your COIL goes up. Just keep an eye on it and it will eventually reach 2400 COIL as long as you don't lose to much.

Here is mine after doing 10 games, its 74 GXE with a coil of 742, so I'll probably have to do about 20-30 more games depending on losses before I have reqs.

 

[JohnOrigins]

Time for some thoughts! Three pokemon being tested and to be honest all 3 are going to be close in whether or not they are banned or not.... very interesting indeed.
Mega Pidgeot:
This bird of prey obviously benefits from having the no guard hurricane with the chance of confusion, making it very difficult/risky to switch into and with heat wave at its side it has very good flying/fire coverage for the lower tiers, only real answers being rock types such as rhyperior but then HP Grass/water is semi common on Pidgeot. Access to U-Turn also makes it a very threatening mon in offense, the ability to switch out off a registeel on the switch and go into dugtrio to remove a counter is a deadly combination and a well built pidgeot team will easily break down any core because of the u-turn option paired up with hurricane spam. On the flip side Mega pidgeot isnt the strongest of chaps, base 135 spAtk sounds good but without any boosting item it can fail to dent some pokemon and can easily become set up fodder for pokemon such as Cresselia and a well played reuinclus, also common assault vest user Eelektross eats up attacks and can reverse momentum on the game with volt switch. Mega Pidgeot also has base 121 speed, which is a good speed tier but still doesnt save it from the wrath known as jolteon, and also its fellow mega sceptile can beat pidgeot with the correct damage role (i personally EV my pidgeot with enough HP investment to live a dragon pulse after rocks 100% of the time but max max pidgeots do have a slight chance to fall to a mega sceptiles dragon pulse after rocks). Pidgeot is obviously a threat and unfortunately you do have to prepare for it because it will just destroy teams in an instance, and it really teaches regenerator cores a lesson, and so I would say it needs to leave RU.

Dragalge:
This monster, after gaining adaptability this threat has swiftly moved through the ranks of NU up to the top of RU, and we can see why, its fantastic natural bulk coupled with amazing attacking power and typing makes it a huge threat and worthy of suspect. As we are aware dragalge just breaks through teams so easily, and has decent coverage that can really punish an opponent if you are running an AV/dragon fang varient. Choice specs can be played around but requires alot of prediction and having the mons available. AV dragalge just poops on a common special wall in the form of aromatisse, AV escavalier can be crippled by scald or a well timed HP fire, Registeel is one of the best checks to dragalge but that too can be crippled by scald burns and dragalge has access to focus blast which will dent registeel especially because it doesnt have access to reliable recovery outside of leftovers, one of the best answers in bronzong but lets face it, bronzong is below average against most other pokemon. One of dragalges weakest points is that is has a pretty garb speed stat and so can be easily revenge killed (obviously if you are running it on trick room this isnt a bad thing) also dugtrio has been getting alot of usuage so that can normally come in and revenge kill (one thing to note that jolly focus sash duggy cannot ohko dragalge), but the main vocal point there is that dragalge has to be REVENGE KILLED making it slightly unhealthy and in my opinion would need to leave, but i am still very much on the fence about it.

Serperior:
aaahhh contrary that wonderful ability that makes serperior go from a PU pokemon to a potentially UU pokemon, its fantastic speed stat with a free nasty plot boost makes this mon one of the best mons in the tier. But you guys obviously forget that we have unaware quagsire which is obviously a counter because the boosts dont apply! :] but seriously this monster has little to no checks, it freely comes in on the variety of bulky waters we have and gets a free boost, can get easy revenge kills on our array of bulky sweepers to get basically free +2 boosts, it has a decent enough move pool to where it can hit every pokemon for good damage, and then even if you have a check or way to status serp it just throws a sub in your face and destroys you behind the safety of its sub... AV dragagle and druddigon switch in but then get bopped by a dragon pulse, bring in that AV esca for shits and gigs and then boom hp fire, the best answer from what i have found is fully specially defensive amoonguss which can eat up a +2 hp fire and do signifcant amount of damage with the slugde bomb which puts it in priorty range. The main thing that can stop serperior is revenge killing with scarfers such as durant and braviary, but be careful of the rouge scarf serperior. Moltres would be a decent switch in, barring the fact that it is crippled by stealth rocks. Serperior is definetely a mon i can say goodbye to...


Sorry for not providing calcs but everyone by now should know the power of these mons and the calcs will be somewhere else either way... :]]

 

[phantom]

wait, this is actually worse than a llamas' song choice, how'd that happen???

i'll post thoughts later, need to go listen to radical face or somethin to tryna drag me outta this musical relapse, dang

Can we use a non-joke/shitty song for once please? :[

tl;dr

 

[atomicllamas]

Alright, I guess I don't understand how anyone could have played this metagame and come away with the impression that Serperior is not super broken, but I guess I'll go ahead and get into why it is broken (at least imo). Okay first off, and probably the most important thing, is the ease with which Serperior sets up. Usually set up sweepers are unable to set up on Pokemon that have been weakened (have low HP) unless the weakened Pokemon is passive af, as weakened Pokemon will tend to stay in and attack rather than risk switching out and letting the opponent set up. Serperior flips this concept on its head, it doesn't care if you stay in as it uses Nasty Plot, or if you switched out, because its Nasty Plot is a 130 BP STAB move. On top of this Serperior has 75 / 95 / 95 bulk which is more than good enough for an offensive Pokemon, and while Grass-typing is not the greatest offensively, it is actually pretty solid defensively, Ground, Water, Electric, and Grass-type moves are all pretty common, while the only attacking types in RU that are common and hit it for SE damage are Fire and Flying (Ice, Bug, and Poison are pretty rare outside of Dragalge). Having 113 Base speed is also extremely good in RU, as the only things that are capable of naturally outspeeding it are Dugtrio (set up bait), Ambipom (really shitty), Cincinno (slightly less shitty), Mega Pidgeot (already has to be Mega Evolved), Jolteon (Signal Beam pls), and Mega Sceptile. This means that most of the time you have to rely on a Choice Scarfer to revenge kill Serperior, (especially since Mega Sceptile loses if Serp is @ +2). The final thing that pushes Serperior over the edge, is that on top of its ease of set up and great speed tier, is that it has a fourth free slot to take care of whatever it needs too, as HP Fire + Dragon Pulse + Leaf Storm have perfect neutral coverage in RU (RIP Mega Altaria and Heatran). For example, running Knock off in the fourth slot allows it to knock of Amoonguss's Black Sludge or Golbat's Eviolite, which means that Serperior can come back in later and sweep more easily, even if it's counters aren't eliminated. I can kind of see why people wouldn't be pro banning the other two (I personally am pro ban but I'll get to that later), but this is quite obviously broken and it astounds me that anyone thinks otherwise e_e.

 

[thegrovylekid]

Sorry if this is redundant at this point, but Serperior and M Pidgeot need to move up. I'm not sure about Dragalge, seeing as I've never used it. Those are jut my opinions, and I will post some replays of Serperior and Pidgeot sweeping when I get them.

 

[theDSC]

Serperior and dragalge do deserve to move up. Both are difficult to handle. One is monstrous wallbreaker that pretty much makes steel types mandatory, adaptability Draco meteors are near impossible to switch into unless you're a fairy or steel type. The other is an extremely fast set up sweeper that doesn't fear taunt or encore that attempts to stop it. It's also surprisingly bulky and fast enough to outspeed or live a good deal of revenge killers. Even if it only has 3 usable attacks very little in RU can stand up to Serperior when it hits +6.

On an unrelated note why is Mega Sceptile not getting suspected? Is it really not as broken as the three aforementioned pokemon because lots of evidence points othetwise

 

[Kingler]

Okay, I've been laddering a bunch and I think my opinions are a bit changed.

Dragalge is really powerful but what I didn't realize is that it also had decent bulk allowing it to come into weaker mons (Alomomola is an obvious one but there are others) and basically threaten to OHKO/2HKO everything in the tier aside from Steel-types (90% of the time it doesnt even need to do that, as it can just spam its STAB moves and then go to something that destroys Steel-types to force them out.) I've had a bunch of games where the game was basically "how many mons can you sac to dragalge and then rk with your own wincon." This may be true for quite a few offense matchups, but very much so for Dragalge. I honestly haven't seen the Toxic Spikes set enough to comment on it, though I imagine it's quite powerful in its own right. I'm now quite inclined towards the ban side.

Serperior I think the meta has adapted a bit to it hence it's not as overwhelmingly powerful as I thought, but it's still quite a pain and every time it comes in you basically HAVE to go to your serp counter, otherwise you'll have to face Serp at +2/+3 where it's nearly impossible to be 2HKOed. I think this should be banned from what I've seen so far.

Pidgeot imo is quite a controversial nom, as the confusion rate from Hurricane is really a deciding factor in whether to ban it. It's a quite powerful mon that can wear down its checks such as Rhyperior and AV Eelektross, yes, but from experience the confusion from Hurricane can eventually allow it to break through if they're weakened enough and you have hax on your (read: the opponent's) side. The confusion is also what prevents mons like Specially Defensive Alomomola from indefinitely stalling it and gives walls that would win 100% of the time even with crits factored in a much lesser chance of beating it. Hurricane is integral to it and I don't think it's advisable/possible to remove a side-effect of Hurricane so Mega Pidgeot is something I'm really on the fence about. Aside from the confusion factor, Mega Pidgeot is a great mon that has its checks and counters and is not very overpowering imo.

 

[Crasherrrr]

I've been steadily laddering to increase my COIL to vote and my opinions thus far have fluctuated a lot
This is my first time voting so some of my arguments perhaps may be noobish or not great but i feel I have a decent enough knowledge of the RU tier to vote effectively

Dragalge- Thanks to ORAS and hidden abilities dragalge has received a major buff and has become the premier Specs abuser in the tier and has a great STAB typing and movepool to nearly hit everything at least neutral incredibly hard BUT I feel that Drag suffers from 4MSS as You either run Draco/dragpulse /Sludge wave\bomb, and then a combination of any of these, thunderbolt, scald, surf, HP Fire,Focus Blast,shadow ball toxic spikes and sub, Along with this it can struggle to get off the hits to kill due to its poor 44 Base speed and whilst some argue that it has a great defensive typing to deal with this it dies to Rhyperior earthquake or a delphox psyshock really quite easily and both of these are incredibly common- NO BAN

Serp- This thing is the definition of overcentralizing, As soon as contrary serperior was released I have seen this thing in at least 2/3 teams. To think that for everytime this thing comes in you have to go into your serp check to avoid being swept completely, and due to this being allowed in the tier you HAVE to carry a check to it and people are resorting to really obscure checks in order to not completely die to this, I have seen things like Sap sipper gogoat/miltank become used when before they got absolutely 0 usage.
Also a 130BPNasty plot is really to stronk BAN

Mega Burd- Though this thing is the most common mega in the tier it isnt without reliable checks that are common, Eviolite Golbat, AV slowking, Av Rhyperior(ish depends on the variant of mega burd being used) Scarf dugtrio can trap and kill with stone edge, it cant do much to archeops or jolteon which can both One shot bird or force it out
Though Hurricanes confuse chance and heat waves burns provide great offensive coverage it rarely one shots many pokemon and has poor defences BUT can be annoying with HAX with confusion and burns rendering a lot of mons useless or making your checks useless- But in my opinion isnt borked ENOUGH to get the banhammer NO BAN

 

[aVocado]

I've been steadily laddering to increase my COIL to vote and my opinions thus far have fluctuated a lot
This is my first time voting so some of my arguments perhaps may be noobish or not great but i feel I have a decent enough knowledge of the RU tier to vote effectively

Dragalge- Thanks to ORAS and hidden abilities dragalge has received a major buff and has become the premier Specs abuser in the tier and has a great STAB typing and movepool to nearly hit everything at least neutral incredibly hard BUT I feel that Drag suffers from 4MSS as You either run Draco/dragpulse /Sludge wave\bomb, and then a combination of any of these, thunderbolt, scald, surf, HP Fire,Focus Blast,shadow ball toxic spikes and sub, Along with this it can struggle to get off the hits to kill due to its poor 44 Base speed and whilst some argue that it has a great defensive typing to deal with this it dies to Rhyperior earthquake or a delphox psyshock really quite easily and both of these are incredibly common- NO BAN

Dragalge needs Draco Meteor/Sludge Bomb/Dragon Pulse, and if it's specs then one of HP Fire or Focus Blast, and if it's not specs then probably just Toxic Spikes and if you want coverage (I like Hydro Pump for Rhyperior) you run it over Dragon Pulse. It literally doesn't have 4mss whatsoever except on the t.spikes set, and only slightly. It has no need to run Thunderbolt, Scald, Surf, Shadow Ball (except to hit Bronzong slightly more) or Substitute. 4MSS isn't a reasonable argument.

Rhyperior can't really do anything if it dies first to Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump, both after a bit of prior damage; both assuming it's specially defensive. If it's not, then it just dies. Delphox can kill with Psyshock though but it can't switch in, and it's not really that common from my brief experience after Serperior's introduction (but I played a lot before it was released and still didn't see it).

Serp- This thing is the definition of overcentralizing, As soon as contrary serperior was released I have seen this thing in at least 2/3 teams. To think that for everytime this thing comes in you have to go into your serp check to avoid being swept completely, and due to this being allowed in the tier you HAVE to carry a check to it and people are resorting to really obscure checks in order to not completely die to this, I have seen things like Sap sipper gogoat/miltank become used when before they got absolutely 0 usage.
Also a 130BPNasty plot is really to stronk BAN

Overcentralization isn't a reason to ban something. Doublade was the most centralizing Pokemon in XY RU and quite a few people wanted it suspected (they were a minority though) but it wasn't really broken. Having to always have to carry a check for something doesn't make it broken either; you have to have something for all top-tier Pokemon at least, so yeah. I get your arguments though, it's just that I'm noting out the big flaws in them.

Mega Burd- Though this thing is the most common mega in the tier it isnt without reliable checks that are common, Eviolite Golbat, AV slowking, Av Rhyperior(ish depends on the variant of mega burd being used) Scarf dugtrio can trap and kill with stone edge, it cant do much to archeops or jolteon which can both One shot bird or force it out
Though Hurricanes confuse chance and heat waves burns provide great offensive coverage it rarely one shots many pokemon and has poor defences BUT can be annoying with HAX with confusion and burns rendering a lot of mons useless or making your checks useless- But in my opinion isnt borked ENOUGH to get the banhammer NO BAN

There are a few things off here: First of all, Eviolite Golbat isn't the most secure of checks because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and the fact that Pidgeot can just click Hurricane all day without fearing much except for a Toxic, which it doesn't really mind /that/ much. AV Rhyperior is.. well it's probably a suboptimal set tbh. Scarf Dugtrio is definitely a suboptimal set and you should only be using Dugtrio if it's either Life Orb or Choice Band and I prefer the former, in addition to that it can't trap Pidgeot because Arena Trap doesn't affect Flying-type, Levitating, or Ghost-type Pokemon. Also Mega Pidgeot outspeeds non-Scarf Dugtrio naturally.

 

[Crasherrrr]

Dragalge needs Draco Meteor/Sludge Bomb/Dragon Pulse, and if it's specs then one of HP Fire or Focus Blast, and if it's not specs then probably just Toxic Spikes and if you want coverage (I like Hydro Pump for Rhyperior) you run it over Dragon Pulse. It literally doesn't have 4mss whatsoever except on the t.spikes set, and only slightly. It has no need to run Thunderbolt, Scald, Surf, Shadow Ball (except to hit Bronzong slightly more) or Substitute. 4MSS isn't a reasonable argument.

Rhyperior can't really do anything if it dies first to Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump, both after a bit of prior damage; both assuming it's specially defensive. If it's not, then it just dies. Delphox can kill with Psyshock though but it can't switch in, and it's not really that common from my brief experience after Serperior's introduction (but I played a lot before it was released and still didn't see it).



Overcentralization isn't a reason to ban something. Doublade was the most centralizing Pokemon in XY RU and quite a few people wanted it suspected (they were a minority though) but it wasn't really broken. Having to always have to carry a check for something doesn't make it broken either; you have to have something for all top-tier Pokemon at least, so yeah. I get your arguments though, it's just that I'm noting out the big flaws in them.



There are a few things off here: First of all, Eviolite Golbat isn't the most secure of checks because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and the fact that Pidgeot can just click Hurricane all day without fearing much except for a Toxic, which it doesn't really mind /that/ much. AV Rhyperior is.. well it's probably a suboptimal set tbh. Scarf Dugtrio is definitely a suboptimal set and you should only be using Dugtrio if it's either Life Orb or Choice Band and I prefer the latter, in addition to that it can't trap Pidgeot because Arena Trap doesn't affect Flying-type, Levitating, or Ghost-type Pokemon. Also Mega Pidgeot outspeeds non-Scarf Dugtrio naturally.

To be completely honest I wasnt aware of the arena trap not trapping burds,
also thanks for the feedback , really appreciate it to improve knowledge of the meta

 

[Holiday]

Idk if I've posted something here BUT here we go. I'll build on this when I'm not in school.

Dragalge- okay there's no denying Dragalge is probably the tier's best special wallbreaker, and with a solid defensive typing to boot gl switching in. Lots of things are boned by it, but the problem I see with Drag is its STABs. They aren't bad (adapt draco tf?) but they both have immunities in Steel and Fairy types (which both teams usually have.) Now, I'm not saying anyone here is an all seeing lord of predictions, but in my opinion of all the RU battles I've participated in, the Specs set is easy to play around. Drop a Draco? Slurpuff can come in. Sludge Bomb? Here comes any of the Steel types. Personally, I think the Toxic Spikes set is better, but with TSpikes, you either give up a way of killing the bulky steels (assuming Dragon/Draco/Sludge) or the sustainability of DPulse (Draco/Sludge/Coverage). Draco Haze is still my fave ;D but as for now I say NO BAN.

Mega Pidgeot- one of the best Megas but is it ban worthy? Let's see. 100% acc. Moves (Hurricane and Heat Wave), the former has the same chance of confusing as Scald does burning, blistering speed, a set that can potentially stop stall. Is this ban worthy? No lol. Pidgeot is not hard to switch into, not hard to RK, and it's still stopped by most Rock Types when not running HP Grass, and misses out on recovery if it does. The Work Up set is really cool, but it's nothing game breaking (I mean anything is deadly at +6). NO BAN.

Serperior- haven't really played around with it, but I think it's BanWorthy. Blistering speed, a base 130 power (with STAB) Nasty Plot, and it promotes Shit Sipper mons like Bouffalant and Sliggoo. Will build on this later, but my opinion? BAN

TL;DR- Ban Serperior, keep Drag and Pidgeotite

 

[col49]

by the by, regular people don't have haters. so until you're obscenely famous, what you're dealing with is either people with differing opinions or assholes, nothing more.

notwithstanding, i'm something like 2/3 of the way done with my votes, but i'm p.absent-minded when it comes to posting for this kinda thing, and i figure now is as good a time as any to do things. you'll also have to excuse my ladder play; i made the mistake of putting my faith into some omfuga-ass squad, and even after ditching that abhorrent wreck i continued to have that bad taste in my mouth (also, i'm still a wholly bad ladderer, forgive me).

dragalgae is a pokemon i was initially very reluctant to concede to being at any degree of broken-ness, mostly for the reason that (during slightly earlier stages of oras, albeit only rather recently) it's versatility and potency seemed rather offset by the numerous other 'new toys' being introduced with the rest of oras. however, upon some further reflection, i must concede that it's quite the overbearing presence in ru. what one must consider is not only the sheer number of free turns that numerous, otherwise good pokemon yield to it, but also the opportunity cost of utilizing the pokemon (which is to say next to none). given the sparse pool of effective switch-ins to the pokemon, i find the presence of such a pokemon a tad overbearing in this environment. i would consider dragalgae to be centralizing in an abjectly negative fashion, which is nasty.

serperior is a pokemon i have the least personal experience using, but i do believe it has been touched upon in depth by enough folk to supplement that haha. notwithstanding, serperior is another pokemon that, similar to dragalgae, puts an enormous strain on team-building in proportion to its rather low opportunity cost. comparatively though, serperior's high base speed (which outpaces the significant majority of relevant offensive pokemon within the tier) allows it a more significant ability to pressure offense, which has attributed sizably in the use of pokemon such as fletchinder and choice scarf moltres, which while by no means bad pokemon, are not exactly low-maintenace, which in turn detracts from the approaches offense can take in team-building (again, cycling back to the point of restrictive team-building). of course, this doesn't significantly detract from its ability to threaten defensive builds either, as the ability to actively stack boosts through attacking can rather easily end-game against defensive builds, finding easy enough windows to boost up against prominent bulky waters and quote-on-quote 'death fodders', which it exploits to pretty ridiculous extents. another pokemon i consider to be somewhat of a unstable force in the current meta.

pidgeot is, again, very substantially covered by this point, but i would like to say that the reason that i consider it to be 'over the top' in terms of potency is its Work Up mono-attacking set, which I believe to single-handedly invalidate numerous defensive builds, both stall-based and balanced; it is both bulky and status-resilient to a point that allows it to solo nearly any bulky 'mon you could name that isn't either eel or rhyperior, and its continued actively positive match-up vs offense (who typically has /maybe/ an av tops or frail electric for flying-type attacks, if that) completely dissipates any real sense of manageability it once had. here are a couple examples of what i mean by this:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-203020450

in this game, all i do is burn the spdef steel, bait in a pokemon that gets scared out by pidgeot (coercing it in by setting tspikes), and just make the unilateral plays from thereon in. from that point, the stall player in question is completely unable to respond, pretty much ending the game there.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-203019590

game vs.balance, leaning towards offense. this i think really showcases how effectively ridiculous this pokemon is, because i play so many turns awfully, yet get away with just leading off and end-gaming with the pokemon.

while the vanilla attacking set is definitely threatening as well, and /perhaps/ ban-worthy on its own merit, the mono-attacking set is honestly too good for the tier, plain and simple.

 

[Metalhand]

Not related to the suspect test but it to the RU meta:
After contrary serperior and reckless emboar, gamefreak decided to abuse RU once again and release rock head tyrantrum lol.

 

[Ms. Sysbit]

its set int eh COIL formula and is the same for everyone. its the 20.0 in the formula here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ru-stage-6-heavy-metal-and-reflective.3527140/

 

[SlottedPig]

I haven't played much ORAS RU, so I won't say anything about the 3 suspects' potential brokenness but jesus christ, Pidgeot's perfect accuracy 30% confusion hax (with few Flying resists in the tier in the first place) is annoying. RU's lack of good special walls is really reflected in the 3 special attackers up for the suspect test.

Why is Cresselia regarded to be better now than it was in XY? My understanding is that it's one of the few defensive pokemon able to keep up in the extremely offensive ORAS meta, and things that it struggled against (support pokemon with status, hazards, or setup) are no longer as prevalent. That doesn't explain why some people are/were clamoring for her to be suspected, though, since her strength would be a byproduct of a meta shift and not completely of her own merit.

 

[Kevun]

Mega Pidgeot- one of the best Megas but is it ban worthy? Let's see. 100% acc. Moves (Hurricane and Heat Wave), the former has the same chance of confusing as Scald does burning, blistering speed, a set that can potentially stop stall. Is this ban worthy? No lol. Pidgeot is not hard to switch into, not hard to RK, and it's still stopped by most Rock Types when not running HP Grass, and misses out on recovery if it does. The Work Up set is really cool, but it's nothing game breaking (I mean anything is deadly at +6). NO BAN.

How is Pidgeot "not hard to switch into" and "not hard to RK"? If you manage to get a confusion on a Mola, Slowking, or Golbat switching in, you essentially have a 50/50 of winning outright, and they become flat out setup bait for Work Up. Rhyperior and Eelektross are able to fend it off for a while, but Pidgeot has the ability to outlast them throughout the course of a match thanks to Roost, while at the same time having the potential to U-Turn off of them for momentum; not to metion you can use HP Grass to outright KO the former or beat Eel by Roosting on the Volt Switch. Saying its easy to revenge kill is ridiculous, since Pidgeot is the third fastest unboosted mon in the tier. Scarf Moltres, Mega Sceptile, Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Glalie all fail to KO from max health, meaning you are pretty much limited to Jolteon as a reliable revenge killer. I think what brings it over the top is the Work Up set, which has nearly unparalleled sweeping potential. It basically voids all effective defensive teams, due to the complete lack of defensive mons that can stop it. At the same time, nothing offensively can switch in either, with the sole exception of Jolteon. It's ability to destroy nearly every archetype with no consistent checks makes it too much for the tier imo.

 

[Cherub Agent]

k so i was really hyped for head smash tyrantrum, and was theorymoning a SubDD set with HS and EQ (to protect it from revenge killers, as its still slow at +1). unfortunately a big problem for sweeper tyrantrum is that RU unfortunately is not at all lacking in very bulky rock resists. rhyperior, bronzong, doublade, registeel, cobalion, quagsire etc are on tons of teams, then there are more niche stuff like hitmontop, mega steelix etc that also dont give a crap. it has earthquake for them, but a lot of them can still sort of shrug it off and KO it anyway.

long story short: imho tyrantrum just wasn't meant to be a sweeper. its an awesome breaker with choice band, but on sets that are required to stay in, ie a sweeper, it's just too darn hard to pull off.

 

[Falyxanation]

Although I'm a huge Dragalge fan, I'm definitely in support of a ban on it. It puts a massive strain on teambuilding, effectively forcing you to run something that either switches into it or revenge kills it. It's self explanatory really - what likes to switch in on an Adaptability Specs Draco Meteor? I'm seriously having trouble making a team where I don't use Bronzong, with the main reason being Dragalge (and Serperior, but I'll touch on that later). Due to Dragalge's good bulk, these really isn't much that can successfully revenge kill it with an OHKO, and most walls besides Bronzong and Registeel fear at least one of its STABs. It also gets tons of switch-in opportunities; RU is full of super passive Pokemon like Alomomola, Aromatisse and Golbat, who Dragalge can turn into a free attack, which will KO or leave a massive dent in any switch in. These are tons of offensive Pokemon that lose to Dragalge too; even Exploud can't KO with Boomburst, and obviously proceeds to die to Draco Meteor: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 247-292 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While Dragalge is pretty easy to deal with after you know what move it's locked into and because HP Fire can't really deal with Bronzong and Registeel, its ability to force people to pointlessly sac Pokemon is toxic to the metagame and should be removed.

Mega Pidgeot I'm still not sure about, but I'm leaning toward a no ban. It isn't nearly as centralising as Dragalge is, for example. It's strong, fast and packs decent coverage of their tier, but there are way more Pokemon in the tier that can stop it than there are for Dragalge. Rhyperior, Eelektross, Choice Scarf Electric mons and more can win against it every time and force it out, and there are plenty of others that can check it with relative ease. Forcing it out allows you to start wearing it down with Stealth Rock, which helps a ton in beating it; after just one hit from rocks, it dies to practically anything that is faster than it and packs a decent STAB move, which means every Scarf mon in the tier. I won't deny that it wrecks plenty of Pokemon in the tier, but it's pretty simple to beat. You can fit in a counter quite easily, unlike Dragalge who is single-handedly increasing the usage of certain Pokemon.

Serperior is a Pokemon who I think receives a bit too much hype. I think it's a bit early to be suspecting it, it's only been around for a couple weeks. RU hasn't had much time to get used to it. I personally think we should think we should let the hype die down and then reconsider suspecting it, so there's no crap from "omg it's finally released ban it pls." Past that though, I do agree that Serperior is a fantastic Pokemon, and I'm in favour of a ban, but there are still plenty of Pokemon that can beat it. Mega Pidgeot has no problem against it, Scarf Reckless Hitmonlee OHKOs with High Jump Kick, and Pokemon like Moltres and Fletchinder can switch into Leaf Storms easily and beat it. Once again, Serperior's HP Fire is nothing against Registeel and Bronzong, who can paralyse or poison it if it isn't running the Substitute set. Past this bunch of mons though, there's very little that the tier has to offer to beat it, since Serperior can turn so many things into a free Nasty Plot boost and win with its great Speed.

Anyway I think this is a pretty cool suspect test. RU definitely needs a clean out.

 

[ChilliTacos]

I've been battling in the suspect ladder for a while and it seems that Mega Pidgeot shouldn't be banned!

Assault Vest Elecktross is more then enough to counter it. When Pidgeot mega evolves it's Speed and Sp Atk are ridiculous i will gave you that. But, if Mega Pidgeot uses Hurricane on AV Elecktross it almost does 20% every time. Heat Wave does about over 26% or 30% (maybe more but I'm not sure). However Elecktross needs reliable recovery. Teamates like Alomomola can help Elecktross stay healthy throughout the battle. (Aromatisse is also an option but i don't think it can handle pidgeot that well since it has heat wave on it.)

As for Dragagle it should be banned. Even if ground types try to switch in on him (such as ryhperior) Dragagle can use scald to just wipe them out! With choice specs and its awesome ability It can almost counter everything that comes against it. If he has reliable teammates its almost unstoppable.

As for serperior it can finally use leaf storm spam. With a great amount of speed it can almost out speed anything in its path. However it doesn't take super effective hits that well. As long as serperior is taken out early it should't bother you.

Well that ends it up for my comment!

Conclusion:
Mega Pidgeot should not be banned
Dragagle needs to be banned.
Serperior- Not sure

 

[ChilliTacos]

Although I'm a huge Dragalge fan, I'm definitely in support of a ban on it. It puts a massive strain on teambuilding, effectively forcing you to run something that either switches into it or revenge kills it. It's self explanatory really - what likes to switch in on an Adaptability Specs Draco Meteor? I'm seriously having trouble making a team where I don't use Bronzong, with the main reason being Dragalge (and Serperior, but I'll touch on that later). Due to Dragalge's good bulk, these really isn't much that can successfully revenge kill it with an OHKO, and most walls besides Bronzong and Registeel fear at least one of its STABs. It also gets tons of switch-in opportunities; RU is full of super passive Pokemon like Alomomola, Aromatisse and Golbat, who Dragalge can turn into a free attack, which will KO or leave a massive dent in any switch in. These are tons of offensive Pokemon that lose to Dragalge too; even Exploud can't KO with Boomburst, and obviously proceeds to die to Draco Meteor: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 247-292 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While Dragalge is pretty easy to deal with after you know what move it's locked into and because HP Fire can't really deal with Bronzong and Registeel, its ability to force people to pointlessly sac Pokemon is toxic to the metagame and should be removed.

Mega Pidgeot I'm still not sure about, but I'm leaning toward a no ban. It isn't nearly as centralising as Dragalge is, for example. It's strong, fast and packs decent coverage of their tier, but there are way more Pokemon in the tier that can stop it than there are for Dragalge. Rhyperior, Eelektross, Choice Scarf Electric mons and more can win against it every time and force it out, and there are plenty of others that can check it with relative ease. Forcing it out allows you to start wearing it down with Stealth Rock, which helps a ton in beating it; after just one hit from rocks, it dies to practically anything that is faster than it and packs a decent STAB move, which means every Scarf mon in the tier. I won't deny that it wrecks plenty of Pokemon in the tier, but it's pretty simple to beat. You can fit in a counter quite easily, unlike Dragalge who is single-handedly increasing the usage of certain Pokemon.

Serperior is a Pokemon who I think receives a bit too much hype. I think it's a bit early to be suspecting it, it's only been around for a couple weeks. RU hasn't had much time to get used to it. I personally think we should think we should let the hype die down and then reconsider suspecting it, so there's no crap from "omg it's finally released ban it pls." Past that though, I do agree that Serperior is a fantastic Pokemon, and I'm in favour of a ban, but there are still plenty of Pokemon that can beat it. Mega Pidgeot has no problem against it, Scarf Reckless Hitmonlee OHKOs with High Jump Kick, and Pokemon like Moltres and Fletchinder can switch into Leaf Storms easily and beat it. Once again, Serperior's HP Fire is nothing against Registeel and Bronzong, who can paralyse or poison it if it isn't running the Substitute set. Past this bunch of mons though, there's very little that the tier has to offer to beat it, since Serperior can turn so many things into a free Nasty Plot boost and win with its great Speed.

Anyway I think this is a pretty cool suspect test. RU definitely needs a clean out.

In my opinion Rhyperior can't stall or counter Pidgeot that well. Since HP Grass is also pretty common on Pidgeot now i think having an Elecktross is Better

 

[Ms. Sysbit]

I am newer to the tier but ladder pretty decently so here are my views on the suspects as I have been saying in the RU chat a lot and why.
First we have Serperior. Game freak bestowed us with an ability that took this mon from garbage to gold in one fell swoop. My biggest issues with it are A it has a base speed of 113 leaving only: Ambipom(included for accuracy but NEVER use it), Cincino, Dugtrio(this is going to get you super far for sure), Mega-Pidgeot(Lets run a suspect to counter a suspect=healthiest meta possible am-i-right?), Jolteon, Accelgor(seems to be rising in use), and Mega Sceptile able to outspeed it. Now my second problem B is that it has a stabbed 130 power Nasty Plot. This is not in any way comparable to Malamar's underwhelming 120 power attack that gives him an attack and defense boost; this is a legit threat. While A LOT checks Serperior(Going to list every RU mon in alphabetical order: Amoongus, Braviary(especially if scarf), Cincino(252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 260-315 (89.3 - 108.2%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO and 252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 192-228 (65.9 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), Cobalion, Delphox, Dragalgae, Drapion, Eelektross, Emboar, Escavalier, Fletchinder, Golbat, Houndoom, Magneton, Moltres, Pidgeot-Mega, Registeel, Shiftry, Skuntank, Virizion, and Whimsicott not very much counters Serperior.
From what I have seen the list of Counters for Serperior is short and most are shaky. The (mostly) agreed upon ones are Amoongus, Bouffalant, Fletchinder, Golbat, and Moltres. Now I am going to break down how effective each is and why it is or isn't shaky imo as most of these are. (All of these calculations will be using the 3 attacks set of Leaf Storm, Hidden Power Fire, and Dragon Pulse with 252 special attack, 252 speed, timid nature holding a life orb unless stated otherwise)

Amoongus: I used to be told standard Amoongus was 252 hp, 160 def, 96 spec def bold. That seems to be changing now so will use this set first. To counter the snake you must swap into the attack. So off the bat you take 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 51-60 (11.8 - 13.8%). Now it outspeeds you and is at plus 2(assuming you didn't miss) and fires off +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 255-302 (59 - 69.9%) while 0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 176-210 (60.4 - 72.1%). Amoongus either retaliates with 0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 176-210 (60.4 - 72.1%) which fails to kill and Serperior gets one more hit off potentially killing Amoongus if not itself depending on the roll(we have lost 10% from Leaf Storm, 10% from HP Fire and any further attack is another 10% so a high roll makes the next hit a double down) or Amoongus 0 SpA Amoonguss Clear Smog vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 102-120 (35 - 41.2%) which does pathetic damage but resets the snake. If we follow the latter however we now have taken 59%-69.9% as black sludge has made up for the first Leaf Storm hit. Now Snake outspeeds and can 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 130-153 (30 - 35.4%) which means a high roll on the plus 2 hidden power fire can kill Amoongus so what a counter?! This isn't even factoring rocks which if are up 59%+11.8%+30%=100.8 and rocks have canceled out the sludge recovery. That's 3 absolute min rolls still equaling a kill. Not exactly a counter.

Now that set is practically dated due to Serperior so lets try a max HP, max SPec def spread calm.
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 101-120 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 198-234 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

So this spread or something similar(have not yet been informed of the agreed upon spec def Amoongus spread) can handle Serperior easily but if we are breaking long established sets to handle one mon doesn't that sound a bit like overcentralizing? Also Amoongus as defensive checks a lot of threats if not counters them and now it cant do that so the role Amoongus once filled has been swallowed up.

Bouffalant is a solid counter to Serperior. Immunity to the Leaf Storm means it cant set up but for completeness' sake a few calcs
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Bouffalant: 88-104 (23.5 - 27.8%)
This barely breaks the sub and can fail to
252+ Atk Bouffalant Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 169-201 (58 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and if you got the leaf storm boost
+1 252+ Atk Bouffalant Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 255-301 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

So again a solid counter to Serperior and a solid mon in RU(C rank viability despite its PU usage ranking) but what was once a rarity/niche mon(correct me if I am wrong) has risen up from 2 tiers below as a way to handle a common threat. Sounds like overcentralizing to me.

So Fletchinder. Not sure why so many feel this is a counter as its one time at best if rocks are up due to its 4x weakness halving its HP but the move it quad resists does
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 81-95 (26.5 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
and if they predict Fletchinder as there is this counter mindset
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 140-166 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO
its practically popped if not straight up Ko-ed (with rocks up ofc)
But of course its a solid check as
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 282-332 (96.9 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
You Just oh-ko after serp attacked once(and had a 3/4 chance from full regardless) so it definitely checks but countering is a stretch imo. Conditional counter maybe? Is that a term now? Or should it be? hmmmm

Anyway I digress to Golbat probably the ONLY legit RU usage mon that counters Serperior and does fantabulously(yeah I said that) in this meta. I will be calcing with the 84 Speed, 248 Hp, 176 Hp, careful nature set. The 84 Speed is kinda recommended as you outspeed even Jolly max Pangoro and can smack it hard with Brave Bird.

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 30-35 (8.4 - 9.9%)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 104-123 (29.4 - 34.8%)

And Golbat does
0 Atk Golbat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 224-266 (76.9 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
even if Serperior somehow managed to get up a sub you can brave bird through it and kill from that point. So a legit counter to Serperior.

Lastly Moltres. Imo this is in the same boat as Fletchinder as both are bludgeoned by rocks. Going to use Scarf variant for these calcs as they are the most common, no? And the scarf lets you outspeed Serperior which I think it needed to legitimately counter it in Moltres' case.

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 55-64 (17.1 - 19.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 96-114 (29.9 - 35.5%)

Even 2 min rolls(one of Leaf Storm and then another Predicting Moltres in so neutral Dragon Pulse) does 47%. With rocks up you are practically dead. If either roll is even slightly better you just straight up are knocked out. I think the overkill of what Fire Blast/Hurricane does to Serperior is not needed but for completeness' sake:
252+ SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 402-474 (138.1 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Moltres Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 330-390 (113.4 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even Flamethrower kills if you don't want to risk the miss

I guess Moltres strikes me as better than Fletchinder but still not an amazing counter if rocks are up(and they often are...)

So to sum up: Tons of checks. But if you're not a check then Serperior has free range to set up. Counters are comparatively few and many are hampered by rocks, some critically, some not so much, another counter involved rewriting its EV spread, and yet another is a RU viable mon that was rarely seen and just found itself a HUGE, new niche in countering Serperior. I feel Serperior is broken and unhealthy for the metagame; even if one does not feel its overpowered(I do as 130 stabbed Nasty Plot is nuts off such an incredible base speed) I think I at least highlighted that to some degree its overcentralizing. I say Ban Serperior emphatically and immediately please.

Agree or disagree? Let me know why! Made a mistake(hope not) just politely tell me and I will happily be enlightened or correct myself.
Also I originally intended one huge post for all 3 but considering how long this is 3 separate threads might be better if I even bother to do one on Dragalgae.

 

[ChilliTacos]

Nice with

I am newer to the tier but ladder pretty decently so here are my views on the suspects as I have been saying in the RU chat a lot and why.
First we have Serperior. Game freak bestowed us with an ability that took this mon from garbage to gold in one fell swoop. My biggest issues with it are A it has a base speed of 113 leaving only: Ambipom(included for accuracy but NEVER use it), Cincino, Dugtrio(this is going to get you super far for sure), Mega-Pidgeot(Lets run a suspect to counter a suspect=healthiest meta possible am-i-right?), Jolteon, Accelgor(seems to be rising in use), and Mega Sceptile able to outspeed it. Now my second problem B is that it has a stabbed 130 power Nasty Plot. This is not in any way comparable to Malamar's underwhelming 120 power attack that gives him an attack and defense boost; this is a legit threat. While A LOT checks Serperior(Going to list every RU mon in alphabetical order: Amoongus, Braviary(especially if scarf), Cincino(252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 260-315 (89.3 - 108.2%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO and 252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 192-228 (65.9 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), Cobalion, Delphox, Dragalgae, Drapion, Eelektross, Emboar, Escavalier, Fletchinder, Golbat, Houndoom, Magneton, Moltres, Pidgeot-Mega, Registeel, Shiftry, Skuntank, Virizion, and Whimsicott not very much counters Serperior.
From what I have seen the list of Counters for Serperior is short and most are shaky. The (mostly) agreed upon ones are Amoongus, Bouffalant, Fletchinder, Golbat, and Moltres. Now I am going to break down how effective each is and why it is or isn't shaky imo as most of these are. (All of these calculations will be using the 3 attacks set of Leaf Storm, Hidden Power Fire, and Dragon Pulse with 252 special attack, 252 speed, timid nature holding a life orb unless stated otherwise)

Amoongus: I used to be told standard Amoongus was 252 hp, 160 def, 96 spec def bold. That seems to be changing now so will use this set first. To counter the snake you must swap into the attack. So off the bat you take 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 51-60 (11.8 - 13.8%). Now it outspeeds you and is at plus 2(assuming you didn't miss) and fires off +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 255-302 (59 - 69.9%) while 0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 176-210 (60.4 - 72.1%). Amoongus either retaliates with 0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 176-210 (60.4 - 72.1%) which fails to kill and Serperior gets one more hit off potentially killing Amoongus if not itself depending on the roll(we have lost 10% from Leaf Storm, 10% from HP Fire and any further attack is another 10% so a high roll makes the next hit a double down) or Amoongus 0 SpA Amoonguss Clear Smog vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 102-120 (35 - 41.2%) which does pathetic damage but resets the snake. If we follow the latter however we now have taken 59%-69.9% as black sludge has made up for the first Leaf Storm hit. Now Snake outspeeds and can 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 130-153 (30 - 35.4%) which means a high roll on the plus 2 hidden power fire can kill Amoongus so what a counter?! This isn't even factoring rocks which if are up 59%+11.8%+30%=100.8 and rocks have canceled out the sludge recovery. That's 3 absolute min rolls still equaling a kill. Not exactly a counter.

Now that set is practically dated due to Serperior so lets try a max HP, max SPec def spread calm.
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 101-120 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 198-234 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

So this spread or something similar(have not yet been informed of the agreed upon spec def Amoongus spread) can handle Serperior easily but if we are breaking long established sets to handle one mon doesn't that sound a bit like overcentralizing? Also Amoongus as defensive checks a lot of threats if not counters them and now it cant do that so the role Amoongus once filled has been swallowed up.

Bouffalant is a solid counter to Serperior. Immunity to the Leaf Storm means it cant set up but for completeness' sake a few calcs
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Bouffalant: 88-104 (23.5 - 27.8%)
This barely breaks the sub and can fail to
252+ Atk Bouffalant Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 169-201 (58 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and if you got the leaf storm boost
+1 252+ Atk Bouffalant Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 255-301 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

So again a solid counter to Serperior and a solid mon in RU(C rank viability despite its PU usage ranking) but what was once a rarity/niche mon(correct me if I am wrong) has risen up from 2 tiers below as a way to handle a common threat. Sounds like overcentralizing to me.

So Fletchinder. Not sure why so many feel this is a counter as its one time at best if rocks are up due to its 4x weakness halving its HP but the move it quad resists does
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 81-95 (26.5 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
and if they predict Fletchinder as there is this counter mindset
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 140-166 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO
its practically popped if not straight up Ko-ed (with rocks up ofc)
But of course its a solid check as
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 282-332 (96.9 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
You Just oh-ko after serp attacked once(and had a 3/4 chance from full regardless) so it definitely checks but countering is a stretch imo. Conditional counter maybe? Is that a term now? Or should it be? hmmmm

Anyway I digress to Golbat probably the ONLY legit RU usage mon that counters Serperior and does fantabulously(yeah I said that) in this meta. I will be calcing with the 84 Speed, 248 Hp, 176 Hp, careful nature set. The 84 Speed is kinda recommended as you outspeed even Jolly max Pangoro and can smack it hard with Brave Bird.

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 30-35 (8.4 - 9.9%)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 104-123 (29.4 - 34.8%)

And Golbat does
0 Atk Golbat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 224-266 (76.9 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
even if Serperior somehow managed to get up a sub you can brave bird through it and kill from that point. So a legit counter to Serperior.

Lastly Moltres. Imo this is in the same boat as Fletchinder as both are bludgeoned by rocks. Going to use Scarf variant for these calcs as they are the most common, no? And the scarf lets you outspeed Serperior which I think it needed to legitimately counter it in Moltres' case.

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 55-64 (17.1 - 19.9%)
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 96-114 (29.9 - 35.5%)

Even 2 min rolls(one of Leaf Storm and then another Predicting Moltres in so neutral Dragon Pulse) does 47%. With rocks up you are practically dead. If either roll is even slightly better you just straight up are knocked out. I think the overkill of what Fire Blast/Hurricane does to Serperior is not needed but for completeness' sake:
252+ SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 402-474 (138.1 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Moltres Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 330-390 (113.4 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even Flamethrower kills if you don't want to risk the miss

I guess Moltres strikes me as better than Fletchinder but still not an amazing counter if rocks are up(and they often are...)

So to sum up: Tons of checks. But if you're not a check then Serperior has free range to set up. Counters are comparatively few and many are hampered by rocks, some critically, some not so much, another counter involved rewriting its EV spread, and yet another is a RU viable mon that was rarely seen and just found itself a HUGE, new niche in countering Serperior. I feel Serperior is broken and unhealthy for the metagame; even if one does not feel its overpowered(I do as 130 stabbed Nasty Plot is nuts off such an incredible base speed) I think I at least highlighted that to some degree its overcentralizing. I say Ban Serperior emphatically and immediately please.

Agree or disagree? Let me know why! Made a mistake(hope not) just politely tell me and I will happily be enlightened or correct myself.
Also I originally intended one huge post for all 3 but considering how long this is 3 separate threads might be better if I even bother to do one on Dragalgae.

Nice calculations. I tested out bouffant (however you spell his name) and it actually works! I tried Elecktross since it could use flamethrower but i didn't worked out as much since it got taken to 60% after a hit from leaf storm. Anyway if your gonna do something like this bout pidgeot u recommend using Assault Vest Elecktross. hurricane does only 20% to elctross and the other moves barely do anything over 30 so i hope this helps :D