np: UU - A New Beginning

[EvilMario]

People should give more credit to Roserade; with a Choice Scarf (Modest, 248 Spe EVs) it outspeeds everything non-Scarfed and has access to a STAB ridiculous Leaf Storm and fast Sleep Powder. Most of the time, as a lead, people expect it to be a Toxic Spikes version so they'll proceed to Taunt or setup while you kill them with a Leaf Storm. You really need HP Ice for Crobat, though. Not sure if it OHKOes, will test.

btw: I think that LO Staraptor has replaced both LO Hitmonlee and Swellow. It's a great attacker. Ambipom has replaced TechTop, no question, and Scarf Roserade replaces ScarfSaur.

Agility Staraptor is also a beast late-game.

Also, although seemingly impossible to stop a late-game sweep by Mismagious and Raikou, I find Hail teams (well, Abomasnow) and technically Sandstorm teams too to be quite the good counters. You prevent it from recovering while draining their HP away with Stalling their Substitutes.

I haven't seen any Sandstorm teams, but who would like to volunteer to try a mini SubPerior in Rhydon? I guess the thing that drives people from using SS is Hippopotas's bad stats. It is just dead weight after setting up.

Also, Calm Minders like Spiritomb and Slowbro are nearly impossible to stop when you don't have a really strong hitter with SE STAB (not appliclable to Spiritomb) in your wing. RestTalk/DarkPulse/Calm Mind Spiritomb is almost impossible to break.

For that---^ reason and for being able to defeat SUbstitute CMers like Raikou and Mismagius, a fast Encore is almost a nessecity on teams. Jumpluff is a great choice for being able to counter Shaymin effectively as well.

EDIT: Right, Bologo.

I've seen people die it this set a lot early on. So many teams are not packing phazers, or even a Dark resist with Taunt. Muk is really underutilized at the moment with his massive Special Defense/HP while people opt for Chansey. :/

I think once people figure out the Mono attacking set, Spiritomb will resort to status inducing and basic walling for many of the most threatening UU threats.

 

[I am Gengar]

A Hippopotas I have just started using, although not as a lead:

Hippopotas @ Focus Sash
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/6 Atk

Stealth Rock
Stockpile
Slack Off
Earthquake

Clearly this won't always work, and most of the time it just comes in to set up stealth rock and sandstorm then promptly dies, but if you're able to grab a stockpile or two, then you can turn it into a decent defensive pokemon. Following is a log I saved of its success. So far this is the only successful use of it, however I've only used it in 4-5 battles so far, and in all the other games it's managed to get up stealth rocks and obviously sandstorm.

I am Gengar switched in Hippopotas (lvl 100 Hippopotas ?).
Hippopotas's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Registeel used Thunder Wave.
It doesn't affect Hippopotas...
The sandstorm rages.
Registeel's leftovers restored its health a little!
Registeel restored 6% of its health.
---
pojo switched in Feraligatr (lvl 100 Feraligatr ?).
Hippopotas used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around your foe's team!
The sandstorm rages.
---
Feraligatr used Substitute.
Feraligatr lost 25% of its health.
Feraligatr made a substitute!
Hippopotas used Stockpile.
Hippopotas stockpiled 1!
Hippopotas's defence was raised.
Hippopotas's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Feraligatr used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Hippopotas lost 48% of its health.
Hippopotas used Stockpile.
Hippopotas stockpiled 2!
Hippopotas's defence was raised.
Hippopotas's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Feraligatr used Dragon Dance.
Feraligatr's attack was raised.
Feraligatr's speed was raised.
Hippopotas used Slack Off.
Hippopotas restored 48% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Feraligatr used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Hippopotas lost 46% of its health.
Hippopotas used Stockpile.
Hippopotas stockpiled 3!
Hippopotas's defence was raised.
Hippopotas's special defence was raised.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Feraligatr used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Hippopotas lost 42% of its health.
Hippopotas used Slack Off.
Hippopotas restored 50% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
Feraligatr used Dragon Dance.
Feraligatr's attack was raised.
Feraligatr's speed was raised.
Hippopotas used Earthquake.
The substitute took damage for Feraligatr!
Feraligatr's substitute faded!
The sandstorm rages.
---
Feraligatr used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Hippopotas lost 51% of its health.
Hippopotas used Earthquake.
Feraligatr lost 29% of its health.
The sandstorm rages.
---
pojo: Pretty interesting.
pojo: That was impressive and I mean it seriously.
I am Gengar: bet you never expected to be walled by hippopotas
pojo: If I didn't have a super effective move then that thing would have walled.

Feraligatr used Waterfall.
It's super effective!
Hippopotas lost 11% of its health.
I am Gengar's Hippopotas fainted.
The sandstorm rages.

Suggestions and comments appreciated.

P.S.: Don't worry, I finished off the Gatr with a Shadow Sneak from Gallade and a Sucker Punch from Cacturne.

EDIT: Significantly shortened log by removing Sandstorm and Gatr's lefties.

 

[Kalec]

Extrasensory works if you have room, but HP rock gives much better coverage if you have to choose one.

Hariyama has worked well lately as my replacement for hitmontop. Guts lets him take will o wisp and one layer of TS with ease, huge HP lets him take hits like a pro, and a huge moveset gives me options against nearly everything.

 

[TVboyCanti]

having trouble finding a good phazer that can take damage and get rid of it reliably. Milotics got recover and haze, but I find that roar/whirl wind is more important for things that use Calm Mind and Substitute.

 

[Garganator]

Maybe you should try Noctowl ? It has access to Whirlwind, instant recovery (Roost) and Night Shade to fight 1on1 against ghosts. I think standard Max Hp/Max SpD set will be fine. To tell the truth I need to try it yet, but I think it can work.

 

[Kagster123]

Ive had tremendous sucess with a defensive glaceon on my stall team. Wish/protect/roar/ice beam is doing great and Hails teams cant really pierce through it.

 

[QibingZero]

having trouble finding a good phazer that can take damage and get rid of it reliably. Milotics got recover and haze, but I find that roar/whirl wind is more important for things that use Calm Mind and Substitute.

Hariyama can Whirlwind, if you're worried about resttalk Spiritomb specifically (though Hariyama can take hits from a lot of stuff, actually).

Glaceon is much better defensively than it's given credit for, has Wish and can Roar, but it's typing continues to let it down.

Umbreon can't Roar, but it can Taunt. It can also Wish to heal while Cursing up to do some damage or Baton Passing the stat-ups to something else. It completely ruins stuff running Rest/CM sets, but it doesn't actually do all that much itself.

If Jumpluff can get in, it can Encore quite a few stat uppers (though it's slower than some key names now).

Shuckle can pretty much Encore anything, especially in sandstorm.

Moltres/Articuno can Roar and have reliable recovery, but both have the obvious SR and other typing problems.

Lapras and Walrein can also Roar, but their typing is actually not so good against the current UU CMers. Walrein does heal in hail, and Lapras can switch into water attacks.

Drapion can actually Roar/Whirlwind and take a single hit from most anything


The theme is, unsurprisingly, Raikou owns most of this stuff.

 

[diinbong]

I find a combo of Magneton and Slaking to be extremely deadly. You can't use the Scarf Magneton set, though, or else Registeel beats you. Basically you scout with CB Return from Slaking, then when a Steel comes in (well obvious from here). Although this applies to most any Normal Type, it is incredibly dangerous here especially.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Maybe you should try Noctowl ? It has access to Whirlwind, instant recovery (Roost) and Night Shade to fight 1on1 against ghosts. I think standard Max Hp/Max SpD set will be fine. To tell the truth I need to try it yet, but I think it can work.

I used Noctowl on my old UU team, more as an excuse to use my favorite pokemon, but it worked pretty wellas aa phazer with

Noctowl@Lefties
252HP/252SpD/6SpA(sometimes more SpA when running heatwave)
Calm
-Whirlwind
-Roost
-Psycho Shift
-Night Shade/Heatwave

I periodically switched between heatwave and nightshade when i wanted to hurt Steelix. Psycho shift is a very cool and useful move to fling back status.You can also shove reflect on there if you'd like.It absorbs special attacks quite well, but suffers doesnt take physicals well and with so many powerful physical threats and an SR weak, it isnt quite up to snuff anymore.

 

[Syberia]

I find a combo of Magneton and Slaking to be extremely deadly. You can't use the Scarf Magneton set, though, or else Registeel beats you. Basically you scout with CB Return from Slaking, then when a Steel comes in (well obvious from here). Although this applies to most any Normal Type, it is incredibly dangerous here especially.

Staraptor > U-Turn > Magneton accomplishes much the same thing

 

[Elevator Music]

I've been running a bulky team and I've found it to be quite adept.

However it feels like it's always under the constant pressure of being threatened to get swept by random Swords Dancers and the like.

I'm sure I'd actually end up losing to a team of SDGallade/RP Torterra/Pinsir/Staraptor/etc just because eventually I'd run out of pokemon to protect myself with. I have two faster pokemon that can manage some revenge kills, but I think the level of offense is borderline insane. It makes stall seems pretty unviable, but I could be very very wrong there.

 

[1059860]

But, they're not broken. Blaziken and Gallade's base 80 speed is a real letdown. Milotic and Spiritomp are good walls, but they can be worn down. Staraptor and Shaymin have plenty of exploitable weaknesses.

Blaziken has agility. Plus, there's always things that can baton pass agility or Rock Polish to make those 2 Pokemon real beasts.

I will agree about Milotic can be worn down part, but it's not typically easy. And CroTomb and MusterTomb are a pain to eat off.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Blaziken has agility. Plus, there's always things that can baton pass agility or Rock Polish to make those 2 Pokemon real beasts.

I will agree about Milotic can be worn down part, but it's not typically easy. And CroTomb and MusterTomb are a pain to eat off.

Its true that it has agility, but its not going to typically get the chance to pull it off. And if youre going to BP Speed, you pass it to Marowak or Rampardos before Blaziken.
And, for me atleast, Spiritomb hasnt been a huge bother I have a WW Hariyama, Taunt NP Houndoom, and Scrappy Kangaskhan, so granted I have several counters for it.

 

[Havak]

I've had moderate success with a team I made a while ago before this whole process started (though I swapped out Rhyperior for Regirock).

I've lost once so far, but I've forgotten how.

I've had real trouble breaking down the Calm Mind Spiritomb and at the moment that's the main thing I'm considering to be "too powerful". Though I've only played about 10 games (its been on the majority) and haven't really given my full attention to getting around it yet.

However, it is the main thing keeping Gallade and Medicham in check, so maybe it's not so bad. We'll see what happens in a few weeks.

 

[Gemerl]

Am I the only one here who's yet to face a Spiritomb? lol

Anyways, Ambipom leads seem quite common to me. Most of my matches start off with looking at that things face -_-.

Shaymin is a beast- seriously, I think its going to be one of the first things banned lol. Seed Flare HURTS, while Earth Power is handy for steels and poison types, Air Slash covers grass types trying to come in on Seed Flare.

I've also noticed quite a few people using Slaking, though no one is using Magneton... huh. A bit odd, imo.

Haven't really run into anything I can't handle yet, biggest problem for me at the moment is Shaymin, since my only way to ebat it right now is to switch my own Shaymin into Seed Flare then proceed to Air Slash lol.

And I'm a bit sad that Toxic Spikes is practically useless. So many flying, steel, and poison types going around, its almost pointless. I also need to think of a new lead, as seems my Froslass lead isn't doing too well against the leads I see now.

 

[diinbong]

In terms of things being too troublesome for the metagame, I think Shaymin is the first for reasons posted before. There is almost no reliable counter to it thanks to Seed Flare+EarthPower+Air Slash.

Gallade is obviously a beast too, but Spiritomb walls it fairly well and it can be easily revenged.

Slaking and Medicham seem to have the most raw power. After your Registeel/Regirock is gone, Slaking absolutely destroys with Scarf/Band Return. Medicham isn't as much of a problem thanks to Spiritomb.

On the defensive, I say the Regis are too hard to stop. Even their bad typing doesn't let them down when they survive a Staraptor CC and Stone Edge/Ice Beam. The Curse sets are especially deadly.

Overall, the staple/MVP of the matagame has to be Spiritomb. It walls so many Physical threat and can even be a sweeper of sorts with Nasty Plot and Calm Mind.

NFEs, in my opinion, don't get enough credit. I've yet to see a single Hippopotas, Rhyhorn, Magneton, Sneasle, and on. These Pokemon really aren't bad. In my opinion, the biggest travesty is not seeing any Dusclops, who fill almost the exact same role as Spiritomb with better defenses and weaknesses.

So...yeah. What I've picked up so far. The Stall is hard to break and the Offense is hard to defend against in my opinion.

 

[StarmanXL]

Y'know, with CM Spiritomb and CM Slowbro being so popular, I'm really starting to consider investing in a Punishment Primeape...doubt it'll work all that great, but still, it'd be worth trying out as a revenge killer, no?

 

[Age of Kings]

^ With Primeape's defenses, it won't last long, only to break Spiritomb's Subs. Pressure and PP issues are also a problem.

Damn this ladder starts when I have a big test tomorrow and finals next week, but i'll try playing whenever I can...

CM Spiritomb and CB Staraptor necessite having a Steel type on your team, and even then it's at risk. Bastards.

 

[tennisace]

Some observations:

Jumpluff is annoying, really annoying since encore hits through sub. It's like a faster Shuckle, it just won't die.

Feraligatr is going to be really good once the new UU settles down. It has DD, and SD, and is pretty bulky with 85/100/83 defenses. It's very fun to use. Currently I'm testing it with Wacan Berry and SD.

SubPunch Magmortar is also great. Someone suggested it in a thread, and it's been amazing. The only bad thing is 25% from SR and Substitute each time.

There is no offensive threat that can reliably take down Raikou, outside of ridiculous gimmicks. I'm forced to just play around it since there's nothing that will keep my tempo going in a match (I play with a fast offensive team.) I might try Scarf Slaking again, but that didn't work well the first time. This isn't saying Raikou is broken, Chansey and Registeel both stop it well. Its just that I can't find anything, any suggestions?

Specs Shaymin is fun. I've always been a sucker for Specs sets, and the general lack of Chansey and Muk have been great for it.

 

[Age of Kings]

Tennisace, try Shedinja. It's not a "ridiculous" gimmick for just one threat either, it reliably switches in to many bulky waters (especially Slowbro) without Toxic and predicted Choicers. I've also had success with forcing switches from most variants of Registeel and Uxie, and if you ever see Regice or Chansey, they will also run. Thunder Wave doesn't particularily harm it with Shadow Sneak and naturally low speed either, and I suppose can even protect against damaging status like Toxic and Burn.


Yes, I'm probably going to get flamed and shot down, but I encourage everyone to just give it a try. :P With the proper anti-entry hazard support.

 

[PeteDHeat]

In terms of things being too troublesome for the metagame, I think Shaymin is the first for reasons posted before. There is almost no reliable counter to it thanks to Seed Flare+EarthPower+Air Slash.

Gallade is obviously a beast too, but Spiritomb walls it fairly well and it can be easily revenged.

Slaking and Medicham seem to have the most raw power. After your Registeel/Regirock is gone, Slaking absolutely destroys with Scarf/Band Return. Medicham isn't as much of a problem thanks to Spiritomb.

On the defensive, I say the Regis are too hard to stop. Even their bad typing doesn't let them down when they survive a Staraptor CC and Stone Edge/Ice Beam. The Curse sets are especially deadly.

Overall, the staple/MVP of the matagame has to be Spiritomb. It walls so many Physical threat and can even be a sweeper of sorts with Nasty Plot and Calm Mind.

NFEs, in my opinion, don't get enough credit. I've yet to see a single Hippopotas, Rhyhorn, Magneton, Sneasle, and on. These Pokemon really aren't bad. In my opinion, the biggest travesty is not seeing any Dusclops, who fill almost the exact same role as Spiritomb with better defenses and weaknesses.

So...yeah. What I've picked up so far. The Stall is hard to break and the Offense is hard to defend against in my opinion.

I completely agree with everything he said. Slaking just destroys everything. Spiritomb, Shaymin are too powerfull for UU.

 

[Erazor]

CM Raikou simply does not belong in UU... it is just too strong. It's a beast too face later on, it justs calm minds not caring about your attacks.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

I also agree, moreso on Shaymin than Tomb. Also, Slaking will stay UU, its ability nerfs it just enough to not destroy UU

 

[Age of Kings]

On the mention of Slaking, I just got an idea on something that can kill Spiritomb: Regigigas. In fact, because of its ability, it's by default the best stall breaker, and I have no idea why the analysis states Slaking > Regigigas. In fact, the opponent has to kill something with straight 110 defenses across the board within 3 or so turns. Spiritomb's goodness relies in its ability to stall, and I haven't run calcs, but it's not going to do significant damage to it in 3 turns, and even without recovery or even Protect outside of Leftovers, it has Thunder Wave, Knock Off, Sub, and of course a physical movepool to pull it off. If it stays in, does shit damage with Dark Pulse, and switches out, that's already 2 turns.

This is pure theorymon, though, but I'm tempted to try it. Thoughts?

 

[cim]

I completely agree with everything he said. Slaking just destroys everything. Spiritomb, Shaymin are too powerfull for UU.

No. Stop it. No. You're doing it wrong.

I'm getting really, really annoyed of people who want things banned less than 24 hours into the game. The people that compare to UU and go "this is too much", the people constantly going on and on about every threat and saying it's broken. They're not even bothering to pack it up, they're hyping, they're completely and utterly missing the point of this entire fucking test and just going "it's broken" "it's too much" without considering anything at all. Maybe your team is shitty and doesn't have a counter or anything for it.

But above all, stop saying things are broken one day into the test. You're undermining the whole process and ruining _everything_ by doing so. You don't know what you're talking about and you're jumping the gun.

----

Mono-CM Spiritomb isn't really that hard to stop with a good offensive team. A fun way to deal with it would be to get one of UU's Dark resisting attack boosters (Absol / Drapion / SD Toxicroak / etc) and set up on CroTomb. Not terribly hard, really, especially if you force it to Rest, where you get a 66% chance at a free turn.

You know everything that 2HKOed all the UU Special Walls before? They 2HKO Spiritomb too.