np: UU - A New Beginning

[Evil Hamster]

Shaymin has caused me the most problems, without a doubt. I've swapped my Mismagius out for a bulky Crobat and I also run CB Arcanine, but it has still caused me significant problems as it is a nightmare to switch into and is really hard to kill once actually in play. Staraptor is worryingly common but I haven't had any problems with it; then again I do use Steelix so I haven't got that much to fear. Agreeing that SR is a huge advantage in the current metagame; more people should use it as it keeps quite a lot of the dominant threats of the metagame in check. Registeel is amazingly popular, but doesn't really ever seem to do much; it's weak offense stops it from being really threating imo. I would imagine this will fall with use with time. Pretty much everything is carrying Toxic at the moment as well, which is annoying when your ReSTalker is down on bulky offensive teams.

 

[TVboyCanti]

Shaymin has caused me the most problems, without a doubt. I've swapped my Mismagius out for a bulky Crobat and I also run CB Arcanine, but it has still caused me significant problems as it is a nightmare to switch into and is really hard to kill once actually in play. Staraptor is worryingly common but I haven't had any problems with it; then again I do use Steelix so I haven't got that much to fear. Agreeing that SR is a huge advantage in the current metagame; more people should use it as it keeps quite a lot of the dominant threats of the metagame in check. Registeel is amazingly popular, but doesn't really ever seem to do much; it's weak offense stops it from being really threating imo. I would imagine this will fall with use with time. Pretty much everything is carrying Toxic at the moment as well, which is annoying when your ReSTalker is down on bulky offensive teams.

Registeel has been great as team support for me, giving me a useful normal/flying/bug resist to switch into, stealth rocks, toxic for weakening walls and protect for scouting choice attacks and stretching out toxic damage. It really helps to set up my sweepers.

Its many utility options including stealth rock, thunder wave, toxic, Rain Dance, Sunny Day and a few offensive options like Curse and Explosion make it a diverse pokemon that can fill many niches. I just hope that people will stop using it for the sake of having a wall and actually use it to support their strategy.

 

[CaptainKishimoto]

I've faced Crobat numerous times, and it's way too much for UU to handle. On the other hand, I've been using Zangoose quite a bit and it seems to be underwhelming. =[

 

[pi face]

I don't know if it's just me, but I see a lot of SR...

yeah, Moltres is a good Shaymin counter, but it's kinda impossible to get rid of SR with Spiritomb around since no single spinner can get past him (fuck you Donphan for being OU) r_r. Maybe SD Sandslash ? Although he can be easily predicted around I guess.

Registeel is a cool Pokemon - I see him as an UU Bronzong - setup rocks, counter some stuff (Mismagius, Staraptor and Honchkrow somewhat for example), spread T-wave and then explode. I used him for a while and he's an ok poke. No recovery just makes you think "ok this thing will die eventually" since he can't do much to things he can't counter (exactly like Bronzong) and has some bad weaknessess you can abuse.

as for Crobat... I hadn't faced him much or used it, but the Brave Bat set looks like little can switch and kill it, but I'll top here since I don't have much experience with him

 

[reachzero]

I don't think Crobat is too bad at all. Regirock walls it completely, and threatens to OHKO with Stone Edge. Steelix likewises walls it totally, and threatens it with Gyro Ball or Stone Edge. The UU metagame in these early stages actually seems remarkably balanced, but it's still pretty early to tell. So far, the most difficult Pokemon to deal with that I've seen so far is Staraptor.

 

[pyrzi]

8 months?

Eventually:
"Lol, gen 5 is out and we're testing Manaphy"

 

[obi]

In reality, the test goes on in perpetuity. This is because if a Pokemon ever proves itself worthy of being banned, it will be. We are never going to say "Yeah, this Pokemon ought to be BL, but it's just been UU so long... We can't possibly change that now!".

 

[EvilMario]

I don't think Crobat is too bad at all. Regirock walls it completely, and threatens to OHKO with Stone Edge. Steelix likewises walls it totally, and threatens it with Gyro Ball or Stone Edge. The UU metagame in these early stages actually seems remarkably balanced, but it's still pretty early to tell. So far, the most difficult Pokemon to deal with that I've seen so far is Staraptor.

Crobat with Life Orb, or Nasty Plot really takes sort of Steelix quite easily thanks to Heat Wave.

Anyways, Crobat is a tough cookie, but I don't think it's proven itself too much in UU thus far. I think it's too early to call anything too much. If Spiritomb is one of the first Pokemon to go, there will be a landslide of Pokemon returning to BL because of the wide range of threats it keeps in check.

I'm looking forward to utilizing Milotic too. I've seen a couple, but I think it will have a steady increase in usage.

 

[Bad Ass]

Stop complaining about Registeel. And Milotic. Skiddle created the perfect counter for them a while back. Magmortar. I run Modest @ Life Orb 252 SpA / 252 Spe. Thunderbolt / Fire Blast / Substitute / Focus Punch suffices for me. Calcs?

Thunderbolt vs 124/0 Bold Milotic: 66.57% - 78.18% 2HKO
Fire Blast vs 252/200 Relaxed Registeel: 92.86% - 109.34% OHKO w/ SR
Thunderbolt vs 212/0 Bold Slowbro: 90.89% - 107.03%
Thunderbolt vs 0/0 Blaziken: 64.45% - 75.75% 2HKO
Fire Blast vs 0/0 Gallade: 88.09% - 103.61% Near-certain OHKO w/ SR
Fire Blast vs 252/116 Careful Spiritomb: 69.08% - 81.58%

As you can see, Magmortar hits like a truck. Chansey is OHKO'd by FP, and will try to status you, allowing a free Sub. He like Wish + Spin support, but will definitely earn a spot on the team. Oh yea, by the way...I beat LR in the first ever New UU match!

~Bad Ass

 

[Bourbon]

ehhhh, I'm flattered, but Magmortar can't really counter Registeel because it can't switch into Thunder Wave or Earthquake safely. However, like most fire-type Pokemon it can obviously perform well against Registeel provided you switch in safely.

 

[TVboyCanti]

Crobat doesn't really do much except for stop setups and put stuff to sleep. It has to choose between sleep and reliable damage (brave bird). IMO, crobat is a neccessary evil to stop stall that would run rampant without a healthy variety of speedy taunters. Then again, I don't really know what the Nasty Plotter is capable of, but I doubt it's even a threat.

I have been having problems with checking subsalac Feraligatr. After a SD and a salac boost, torrent makes this guy a sweeping engine, with return giving him the infamous water/normal two move type coverage. It's basically a physical version of Sweepoleon(sub/agility Empoleon) but with access to a strong normal attack for better coverage. I've incorporated the pokemon into my team to see if it really is as devastating as I think it is or if I'm just not seeing the right way to beat this guy.

 

[umbarsc]

Sceptile is my favorite mixed sweeper, because unlike Magmortar/Blaziken/etc., it actually has some speed. As posted in the other thread, what I use it

- Leaf Storm
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power Fire
- Dragon Pulse

I'm considering dropping HP Fire or Dragon Pulse for Earthquake to OHKO the aforementioned fire sweepers and do something to Muk, but Shaymin is too threatening for me to drop HP Fire, and I osrt of like Dragon Pulse as a "finisher" move for weakened Pokemon (and Sceptile's only chance of breaking Moltres).

It's basically a physical version of Sweepoleon(sub/agility Empoleon) but with access to a strong normal attack for better coverage.

It's never been called Sweepoleon, and the main difference between Empoleon and Feraligatr is that the latter can only get to +1 Speed, allowing it to be beaten out by fast Scarfers, and it's not part Steel so it's more vulnerable to Fake Out/Shadow Sneak/etc.

 

[Veedrock]

Sceptile is my favorite mixed sweeper, because unlike Magmortar/Blaziken/etc., it actually has some speed.

Blaziken has Agility. I think Agility Blaziken should be the most used just because it outruns everything shy of Scarf Electrode (and scarf 130s, but only Aero comes to mind) and can smack pretty damn hard from both sides of the spectrum.

It's never been called Sweepoleon, and the main difference between Empoleon and Feraligatr is that the latter can only get to +1 Speed, allowing it to be beaten out by fast Scarfers, and it's not part Steel so it's more vulnerable to Fake Out/Shadow Sneak/etc.

Lol, Sweepoleon. Anyways, while you're correct about being more vulnerable to priority, Feraligatr has a higher base speed and has Dragon Dance to fix the speed problem. Give him a Salac berry, sub on the switch, DD, sub down to berry activation, and you're now at +1 attack +2 speed (exactly like Empoleon but physical) and attempt to sweep. But like Empoleon, it's tough to pull off because you're so weakened and that does make you vulnerable.

 

[Legacy Raider]

The thing that makes Empoleon so attractive as a sub boost torrent sweeper is the fact that it resists every priority attack in the game apart from Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave. Feraligatr is very vulnerable to being hit with a priority attack at its low health, and to be honest I personally would just DD up again and take the hit rather than sub down to a boost.

 

[mien]

I've been laddering for a while now and the only one who brought me trouble is the LO Shaymin set

Anyone knows how to deal with this thing? It keeps killing my main grass resistance with SpD drop and simply doesn't want to die

 

[cim]

I know that every Pokemon is getting tested, but is this worth it? Because some are obvious enough that even inept battlers would even know that they would be banned. A few examples would be Blaziken, Staraptor, Milotic, Gallade, Spiritomb and Shaymin.

Wow. And here I thought for once this test would be different.

Do you guys even know why the tier change happened?

It's because the idea that we should theory ban things that are "obviously broken" is preposterous, idiotic, naive, and really, really dumb.

So that means honestly, if anyone calls for anything to be banned within the first week or so then they are dumb. More than likely the real reason they want it banned is "I don't have a counter for it on my Old UU team, it's broken!".

In conclusion, this is exactly what you should not do, stop doing, and never do! Honestly, the only one of those that I think might be close enough to consider _testing_ is Gallade, maybe. But instead of whining and calling for its ban less than a day into playing because it's obvious, I'm going to shut up and play UU for the moth and a half before some secret panel of people with badges tell us what's being voted on.

Life Orb Shaymin can be dealt with by switching out when you get a drop, as it happens rarely enough that it won't get consecutive drops. I often just stall Seed Flare out of PP with Hypno, then go to Lapras and kill it.

 

[EvilMario]

Theorymon time: I know there are a lot of fighters and quick sweepers around, but the power of Sword Dance Lickilicky should not be underestimated. It can 2HKO the most physically defensive Spiritomb and Steelix with Earthquake(assuming Life Orb, Steelix with Aqua Tail as well).

Miltoic , Uxie and Tangrowth stand no chance against Return (all being 2HKO), even if they both max out their defense and HPs with a positive nature. Milotic suffering upwards of 90% damage with Tangrowth performing the best, with 54% minimum with Life Orb. And if they don't invest into their offenses Lickilicky's great defenses will sponge their hits.

I only illustrate Life Orb to see all the 2HKOs it can obtain. Keep in mind all these are max/max +nature Pokemon.. so a lot of these might turn into 2HKOs regardless. Leftovers is probably preferable, because with his great defenses, Lickilicky might even score a second Sword Dance. This bulk helps him separate himself from Zangoose and Ursaring who are not quite as capable of taking hits.

 

[Imran]

I spent a little time today testing a couple of NFE Pokemon and I have to say I was disappointed. I found Gabite to be weak with the Choice Scarf, I was running a Jolly nature but I felt that it needed that to make up for it's poor base Speed. (Can't remember exactly what it was that I wanted to outspeed) Outrage didn't do the business, and being locked into Earthquake was not pretty.

Second of all I tried Machoke, a ResTalking Machoke that worked similarly to Machamp does in Overused, mainly as a good switch in to Blissey, but obviously the confusion element was what attracted me to it over Hariyama. I quickly reverted back to Hariyama, as things like Crobat and other defensive Flyers are simply too sturdy for it to take down, and Machoke isn't really all that bulky, another failure in my opinion. Both we "OK" but not great. I quickly reverted to using Hariyma who can at least Roar out ResTalkCM Tomb and Whirlwind to scout for counters.

On a side note, people have been complaining about things like Staraptor, as a makeshift counter I have been running Luxray's defensive set with a few tweaks. The set that I have actually been running is Crunch / Thunderbolt / Toxic / Thunder Wave, and it does make an excellent counter with Intimidate and Bold 252 Def / 252 HP. Lack of a reliable recovery move doesn't help it though and it is quite capably walled by Steelix, and things like RegiSteel. I was considering pumping a few attack EVs into it in order to do over 50% to things like Slowbro, but I haven't got round to it yet. Stall has been a little underwhelming, as have Hail teams to date, although I haven't faced too many of them.

 

[User 12783]

So far I think Shaymin may be the number the one suspect. Hits every single type for super-effective or at least neutral with Earth Power / HP Ice or Fire / Seed Flare. I have been using it to win a lot lately, even in a battle against ODDish, I won because of a critical moment in which Seed Flare literally saved me from losing. With a Life Orb, and Rest, coupled with high defensive stats, it stays in the game for a very long team, even though it is meant to be a sweeper.

I have also noticed a common trend. Raikou is being used a lot, with T-Bolt / Shadow Ball and SubCM. I can see the reasoning behind this as I am as well whoring this Pokemon. It isn't really broken but finding a "true counter" is hard unless you opt for Chansey, which isn't really being used much. I thought I would be encountering it often on the ladder. As well not many hail + sand teams are being used. This is due partially to the fact that most of the Pokemon that would abuse these weather conditions are now OU (Tentacruel, Rhyperior, etc.)

These are some of the early impressions I have gathered. Also, I find Blaziken useless and really just dead weight on my team while Gallade I have only faced once so far but is also like Blaziken, pretty mediocre if played around.

 

[sbc]

Regice stopped Shaymin pretty much dead for me, I ran 252 HP and SpDef and took ~24% from Seed Flare.

I reckon that Registeel can do something similar albeit Earth Power weak.

 

[ODDish]

So far I think Shaymin may be the number the one suspect. Hits every single type for super-effective or at least neutral with Earth Power / HP Ice or Fire / Seed Flare. I have been using it to win a lot lately, even in a battle against ODDish, I won because of a critical moment in which Seed Flare literally saved me from losing. With a Life Orb, and Rest, coupled with high defensive stats, it stays in the game for a very long team, even though it is meant to be a sweeper.

Sorry but I really fail to see how this proves anything.

I have about as much clue about the current BL, sorry "new UU" metagame as anyone else, probably less.

You could just have easily beaten me with a Blaziken, Crobat, hells probably even Quagsire, since my general method of team building today has involved throwing six random pokemon together and hoping for the best.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Yeah, Gallade's been very underwhelming for me as its horridly walled by Slowbro and Spiritomb. My favorite pokemon right now (and had been before the test, used to run it in OU) is Houndoom. After a NP, its great STAB runs through teams. And its 95 speed is quite good since so many BL pokes are slow.

 

[Syberia]

Try using Leaf Blade on Gallade, and I think you'll have a little more success. It's a half-decent move in this new environment.

 

[diinbong]

People should give more credit to Roserade; with a Choice Scarf (Modest, 248 Spe EVs) it outspeeds everything non-Scarfed and has access to a STAB ridiculous Leaf Storm and fast Sleep Powder. Most of the time, as a lead, people expect it to be a Toxic Spikes version so they'll proceed to Taunt or setup while you kill them with a Leaf Storm. You really need HP Ice for Crobat, though. Not sure if it OHKOes, will test.

btw: I think that LO Staraptor has replaced both LO Hitmonlee and Swellow. It's a great attacker. Ambipom has replaced TechTop, no question, and Scarf Roserade replaces ScarfSaur.

Agility Staraptor is also a beast late-game.

Also, although seemingly impossible to stop a late-game sweep by Mismagious and Raikou, I find Hail teams (well, Abomasnow) and technically Sandstorm teams too to be quite the good counters. You prevent it from recovering while draining their HP away with Stalling their Substitutes.

I haven't seen any Sandstorm teams, but who would like to volunteer to try a mini SubPerior in Rhydon? I guess the thing that drives people from using SS is Hippopotas's bad stats. It is just dead weight after setting up.

Also, Calm Minders like Spiritomb and Slowbro are nearly impossible to stop when you don't have a really strong hitter with SE STAB (not appliclable to Spiritomb) in your wing. RestTalk/DarkPulse/Calm Mind Spiritomb is almost impossible to break.

For that---^ reason and for being able to defeat SUbstitute CMers like Raikou and Mismagius, a fast Encore is almost a nessecity on teams. Jumpluff is a great choice for being able to counter Shaymin effectively as well.

EDIT: Right, Bologo.

 

[Bologo]

You really need HP Ice for Crobat, though. Not sure if it OHKOes, will test.

Why not just use Extrasensory? It hits Crobat harder, hits a lot of the Poisons harder, gives you room for a differently typed Hidden Power, has more PP, and a 10% chance to flinch.