np: XY UU Stage 1 - Reload [Salamence: BL | Next: DROPS!!!]

[EonX]

Hm, Hydreigon will be interesting. That base Speed is really odd at base 98. Fast enough to outpace Darmanitan, but slower than Victini. It has great attacking stats and an insane movepool to utilize. Levitate helps give it some extra switch-in opportunities. The main problem is a lack of defensive counters. Basically, Florges is about the only truly safe defensive counter in the tier, but it can easily be pressured via U-turn as it could quickly be met with a counter that is ready to obliterate it upon switch-in. In particular, a core of Hydreigon + Victini / Darmanitan can be especially troublesome since either Fire-type can destroy Florges and use U-turn to keep momentum while Hydra is able to blow up many bulky Water- and Ground-types that can be used to check the Fire-types.

 

[nv]

In my opinion, Hydreigon should've never left. There is offensive checks in Scarf Hera (who only needs to worry about Scarf Hydrei) Scarf Shao and a defensive counter in Florges. To be honest, I am gonna love having it back and to see just how well it fares with the meta as it has a grown a bit since it was here last. And this time, I hope the council sees Hydreigon as a decent, but not meta-centralizing, threat in UU.

 

[Ununhexium]

Yeah hydreigon wasn't really an issue. It has "no counter" but it is easily checked and without scarf, it is easily revenge killed.

And please don't use bright green.

 

[ouchalargerock]

Honestly I don't think there was any reason for Hydreigon to be tested. It's easily outsped and checked by numerous things like Heracross and Aromatisse.

Hydreigon for UU.

 

[Schpoonman]

You need to check your speed tiers, bro, Hydreigon is significantly faster than Heracross. I don't blame you for being confused seeing as how damn near 100% of Heracross are scarfed, but it was also mindboggingly common for Hydreigon to be scarfed.

 

[nv]

You need to check your speed tiers, bro, Hydreigon is significantly faster than Heracross. I don't blame you for being confused seeing as how damn near 100% of Heracross are scarfed, but it was also mindboggingly common for Hydreigon to be scarfed.

Thing is like Ununhexium said...without Scarf it is easily RK'd whereas with it, it is checked by tons of stuff in UU (Looking at you Florges i.e. #1 used in UU). To be fair, though it is a decent wallbreaker with LO + Roost or Specs but Scarf was probably up there as the set.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Thing is like Ununhexium said...without Scarf it is easily RK'd whereas with it, it is checked by tons of stuff in UU (Looking at you Florges i.e. #1 used in UU). To be fair, though it is a decent wallbreaker with LO + Roost or Specs but Scarf was probably up there as the set.

Well the whole point of Scarf is to pick off slow threats and potentially sweep late game.

Honestly I don't think there was any reason for Hydreigon to be tested. It's easily outsped and checked by numerous things like Heracross and Aromatisse.

Hydreigon for UU.

Hera only checks non-Sub or non-Scarf Hydreigon, so it's a situational check.

Also, I think Reuniclus is very strong right now. Will elaborate in a later post.

 

[EonX]

Honestly I don't think there was any reason for Hydreigon to be tested. It's easily outsped and checked by numerous things like Heracross and Aromatisse.

Hydreigon for UU.

Well, it can be outsped by ScarfCross and Mienshao, but that doesn't mean they're failsafe checks. One set that a lot of people kinda forget about is its Sub + 3 Attacks set, which aims to lure in these fast offensive mons that check it, use Sub as they come in, and then deal with them by using the correct move. Hydra is granted more freedom with such a set as it can more easily utilize Fire Blast or Focus Blast as a miss isn't going to spell complete doom; unless the target outspeeds, you'll have two shots to hit once. Now, the Sub set has its own set of problems. It struggles much more against defensive teams as it lacks a nuke or a boosting item (unless you use Roost, but then you have coverage holes) Basically, offensive teams generally have more answers to Hydreigon to keep it from doing too much damage, but they can also be screwed over if Hydra packs Sub or a Scarf of its own.

 

[Patrick1088]

I think the sub set is threatening, but it loses coverage once its loses a moveslot. You have draco meteor or d pulse, dark pulse and what flash cannon or roost? Lets not forget that infiltrator crobat (esp the choice band set) and noivern are faster and hit behind the sub.

I think its a great addition to uu. It doesnt have the speed r power of thundy-t, its typing grants it weakness to fighting, bug, ice, dragon and fairy moves. It has no way to boost its stats outside of work up and tailwind. I think its a great poke but it can be handled by most bulky mons with ease (assault vest hurt it a lot too btw)

 

[skies]

I think the sub set is threatening, but it loses coverage once its loses a moveslot. You have draco meteor or d pulse, dark pulse and what flash cannon or roost? Lets not forget that infiltrator crobat (esp the choice band set) and noivern are faster and hit behind the sub.

I think its a great addition to uu. It doesnt have the speed r power of thundy-t, its typing grants it weakness to fighting, bug, ice, dragon and fairy moves. It has no way to boost its stats outside of work up and tailwind. I think its a great poke but it can be handled by most bulky mons with ease (assault vest hurt it a lot too btw)

Since when are Crobat and Noivern super common? I mean sure, Infiltrator is bad, but Crobat is better off defensively. Noivern is a great check provided it gets a safe switch in though.

 

[Ununhexium]

Since when are Crobat and Noivern super common? I mean sure, Infiltrator is bad, but Crobat is better off defensively. Noivern is a great check provided it gets a safe switch in though.

Band crobat is actually a thing and a good thing at that. STAB band brave bird hurts a lot.

 

[EonX]

Since when are Crobat and Noivern super common? I mean sure, Infiltrator is bad, but Crobat is better off defensively. Noivern is a great check provided it gets a safe switch in though.

Well, Crobat probably is better off going defensive since it's one of the better Defog users in the tier, but that doesn't mean that CB Crobat is bad. While it may not be the strongest one out there, its high Speed and Infiltrator give it a solid niche as a CB user since it can outspeed p. much the entire unboosted metagame (bar Megatric and Mega-Aero) and has solid STABs in Brave Bird and Cross Poison to hit behind some sweepers that use Sub to aid in their setup (Sub Hydreigon, SubCM Raikou just to name a couple) Noivern isn't the most common around, but it may see some more usage during the Hydra retest as it outspeeds every set other than the Scarf set and will KO with Draco, regardless of the set (bar Scarf) since Infiltrator bypasses Sub, making it about the only mon capable of revenge killing any set that isn't Scarf.

 

[lol kingler]

I imagine Hydreigon will be a lot like Victini. It can run a plethora of sets and items, and different sets can work well against counters to it's more standard ones but can be revenged by some common threats. The scariest thing about Hydreigon is how well it will pair with the Nidos and wreckage that those two will do to stall or bulky offense. Hydreigon will get free switches into Mew while Nido will get free switches into Florges.

 

[Schpoonman]

Apparently my lone job in this forum is nitpicking since I don't have anything better to add: Not that anyone would ever use Aerodactyl without Mega, but Crobat and Aerodactyl tie, so staying in is risky as Brave Bird and Cross Poison are resisted while you need HP investment and then some serious defensive investment to not be cleanly OHKO'd by non-Mega Aerodactyl's Stone Edge. Of course, at that point, you are then outsped, while Mega Aerodactyl has enough power to outright OHKO anything but 252/252+ Crobat.

I don't really know why I'm bringing this up other than the fact that I've been using Mega Aerodactyl the last few days, but it's a thought.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I imagine Hydreigon will be a lot like Victini. It can run a plethora of sets and items, and different sets can work well against counters to it's more standard ones but can be revenged by some common threats. The scariest thing about Hydreigon is how well it will pair with the Nidos and wreckage that those two will do to stall or bulky offense. Hydreigon will get free switches into Mew while Nido will get free switches into Florges.

The only pokemon that gets free switches on mew is houndoom (and thats assuming the standard mew set). Hydreigon wont enjoy having its item knocked off as this will happen:
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 186-218 (46 - 53.9%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That said i never though hydreigon was broken, in fact before it was banned it actually dropped from S to A+ rank in this thead. Every single defensive team has florges, and not because of hydreigon but because florges is an amazing pokemon in general, it was consistently topping the usage stats even when hydreigon was banned. Offensive teams will have mienshao, (scarf) heracross and flygon regardless of hydreigon's existence. Sp def hippo and vaporeon are also nice switches to choice sets. Gardevoir is a good offensive check that can afford to switch in draco meteors and theres lesser used but still effective stuff like cobalion (underrated as shit) and noivern. Hydreigon will actually be an extremely healthy addition to the metagame by checking honchrow, victini, darmanitan, houndoom and breaking through mew's monstrous bulk (as long as you dont switch into knock off as i said).

 

[Explorer]

Thing is like Ununhexium said...without Scarf it is easily RK'd whereas with it, it is checked by tons of stuff in UU (Looking at you Florges i.e. #1 used in UU). To be fair, though it is a decent wallbreaker with LO + Roost or Specs but Scarf was probably up there as the set.

Note that Hydreigon gets Iron Tail to use as a Florges lure, which I've actually used to some success. That being said, it's risky and uncommon, so Florges remains the #1 Hydreigon counter in UU. With its giant move pool it has so much untapped potential; I've designed some really wacky sets for it that utilize its unique traits.

That being said, Hydreigon was initially banned because it was deemed as potentially broken. In reality, it is checked by so many things, especially with that 4x Fairy weakness and the fact that some of the most common Scarfers can easily revenge-kill Hydreigon. IMO it belongs in UU at least to see if its three heads reign in terror without Weaville (and Mamoswine) running around everywhere.

 

[RowDog]

Even with Iron Tail though it isn't a clean OHKO:
4 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 268-317 (74.4 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And lets not start on how much that move misses.

The thing with Hydreigon is that it has a lot of different threatening sets which are all very powerful, put each one has its considerable drawbacks when used over another.
Scarf Hydreigon? Easy to switch into once you know the move it is locked into and lacks a bit of power
LO Hydreigon? Hitting significantly harder but is easily outsped and revenged
Sub Hydreigon? Loses precious coverage that the other 2 sets provide.
Specs Hydreigon? Packs a mighty punch but like scarf is reasonably easy to switch into once it is locked and can be outsped and revenge killed.

It really isn't a flawless pokemon. The main trick at the beginning is finding out what set it is running, then it can be relatively manageable.

Anyway I don't think you are broken Hydreigon and I will enjoy using the shit out of you like the good old times before you were banned. We never separated, not on any team <3

 

[EonX]

Hydreigon's Iron Tail against the spread you SHOULD be using on Florges:

4 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 224 Def Florges: 205-242 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And hitting Iron Tail twice in a row is kinda shaky considering it only has 5% more accuracy than Focus Miss. In the end, I think Hydreigon is one of those Pokemon that has no true answer due to its wide movepool, but is always going to have its share of issues. Without Scarf, quite a few offensive mons outspeed and RK it. Without LO or Specs, base 125 Special Attack isn't so imposing as you might think. Sub protects from priority and revengers, but cuts down on power and/or coverage (to use LO, you need Roost, which kills coverage, but you can't run LO with full coverage due to dying way too fast) You need a way around it for sure, but there's always going to be an answer to it thanks to the defensive typing, awkward Speed tier, and inability to cover everything with one moveset. Just my two cents.

 

[GULLY]

ive been using band victini and specs hydra together. i think that core is the one to use, its wall breaking capability is unmatched. and with webs, gg

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Nidoqueen+Guts Heracross is a much more effective wallbreaking core then putting 2 choiced users together, specially when one of them is hard walled by the most common defensive pokemon in the tier. Hydreigon's best set before the ban was the choice scarf set as its a fantastic cleaner late game and serves as a good revenge killer in general thanks to draco meteor's sheer power and that nice sucker punch resistance and im pretty sure its still going to be the most effective one due to the prominence of honchrow, scarf heracross and scarf darmanitan all of which hydreigon can check.

 

[EonX]

ive been using band victini and specs hydra together. i think that core is the one to use, its wall breaking capability is unmatched. and with webs, gg

I really don't like Specs Hydra in a meta where the most common defensive Pokemon in the tier hard walls it, as SmashBrosBrawl mentioned. Whether or not Florges should be the most used Pokemon can be debated, but the sheer usage has to be respected. Scarf Hydra was, and likely still is, the best set it can use in the current meta as the only common Scarf user that can outspeed AND beat it is Mienshao. Otherwise, it's checking many offensive threats through the sheer power of Draco Meteor and can simply U-turn out of shit like Florges / Aromatisse and have a teammate bash their heads in for it. At any rate, I'd probably use Life Orb / EBelt over Choice Specs so I can switch moves with Hydra since, outside of Fairy-types, its STABs have good coverage together.

 

[Explorer]

Proposal for an offensive partner for specially-based offensive Hydreigon sets (most of them)

Aggron (M) @ Aggronite
Trait: Sturdy-->Filter
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Rock Polish
-Power-Up Punch
-Heavy Slam
-Ice Punch

Rock Polish boosts the speed to a sweepable level once fast scarers are gone, while this set retains Aggron's naturally exceptional physical bulk. Power-Up Punch helps to compensate for Aggron's lack of Swords Dance/Dragon Dance, and then there are the damage-dealing moves: Ice Punch breaks apart Dragon and Ground-types; most other things are flattened to smithereens with Heavy Slam--including Florges. With Fairy types removed, Hydreigon can come in and clean up. Hydreigon could even run U-turn to get Aggron in on Florges.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

That set is walled by nearly the entire metagame lol. If you want to use a sweeping set with aggron then run lum berry with head smash and rock head or just go for a straight up choice band set.

 

[Ununhexium]

Yeah if you want a sweeper use normal aggron as you can use a STAB no recoil head smash

 

[trc]

Hydreigon is an interesting Pokemon, with many virtues that make it a top-tier threat in UU. It has a good offensive typing with access to a large amount of coverage moves, it can utilize its Special Attack and Attack to bypass some dedicated walls, and its odd Speed tier puts it just ahead of Darmanitan, Porygon-Z, Roserade, and Meloetta. However, there are obviously flaws it suffers from, so it must be determined whether a combination of them results in Hydreigon being broken, or not. Often being seen as a wallbreaker with Life Orb, it does have very limited defensive checks, which are limited to Florges, which has trouble with Iron Tail variants even though they aren't that common as Hydreigon would rather utilize coverage that isn't as specific, while also being quite weak so Hydreigon has to rely on hitting it twice as it switches in, a shaky answer at best , and Umbreon, which although weak to Superpower, can Wish + Protect stall until Superpower isn't strong enough to 2HKO, at which point it can recover to full health and stall it with Toxic. It has many more checks offensively, including Choice Scarf Mienshao, Choice Scarf Heracross, as well as constant U-turning from the likes of Victini, Choice Scarf Darmanitan, and again Mienshao. If it is Choice Scarf, it is a lot easier to check defensively, if it is Life Orb, it isn't difficult to check it offensively. I think that the fact that it has a variety of common checks, even if it has no counters, is a good indication that isn't broken in the metagame.