Klefki is a much better pokemon than reshiram in ubers, which is enough to completely destroy your argument. Things are not inherently good, bad or broken, its all dependant on the rest of the tier they are in, and thats why every single pokemon in this game deserves to be tested fairly, which is exactly what the UU tier is doing. Crawdaunt and Salamence were MUCH bigger threats in UU then Genesect was in OU, i have absolutely no clue what are you even talking about lol.
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np: XY UU Stage 2 - Light Em Up
- Thread starter kokoloko
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9/15 leaves a lot of room for ambiguity, which i don't like tbh. i can see your point, and it definitely is worth consideration, but the main problem is that i don't think there actually are 15 people who can be trusted with making decisions regarding the tier and actually /want/ to do it.
Ok since tiering isn't my thing and I can just let Koko deal with that i'm gonna just go over my stance on the drops (since we have begun voting on the ones that will be being added to the BL list and the ones that are staying UU but shhh don't tell koko n_n ).
Added that so if you don't wanna read my wall, you can just skim and look at the votes that I chose and base any arguments you might have with solely my votes.
Alakazite - Well like I said earlier on, it will be interesting to see how this thing performs in practice and boy does it perform. Being able to 2HKO basically every wall with it's coverage, outspeed the entire metagame WITHOUT having to run a speed boosting nature and hit 493 Special Attack with a Modest nature. Do I need to say anymore? Oh yeah, it gets trace to alleviate status from shit like Blissey due to Natural Cure, Regen health from Slowbro/Moong/LoveFish, even get Sturdy from Aggron basically giving it all the benefits of Sash Zam with the Deoxys-A offensive stats. Without a doubt in my mind, i'm voting for Alakazite to BL.
Blissey - Yet another Pink blob for Limitless to add to the core. Basically, Blissey is what all the balanced players really wanted in UU, it does it's job spectacularly basically being able to stall out every Special Attack in the tier (bar Mega Zam but he's headed BL so we don't need to talk about him). What I think is the big difference between Chansey and Blissey, is with the enormous drop in Knock Off spam from the start of the meta to what it is now, Chansey would have been way too good atm where as Blissey finds it's place somewhere in the middle ground. It doesn't possess that fantastic Fairy typing that Florges has but what it does have more than makes up for it. All 255 of those Hit Points, it's access to Stealth Rock, Natural Cure, Wish and Instant Recovery (Soft-Boiled) give Blissey the edges in some areas but it's lackluster ability to take Physical hits like it's little sister Chansey is the reason I didn't think Blissey was too much for UU, which is the reason I voted UU. And just as comparison.
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 444-524 (63 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-720 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Goodra - Oh Goodra, how you stayed in OU for so long i'll never know. Must have been that shiny new toy mentality that we all get when new mons drop..oh lel. Regardless, I have found that Goodra is surprisingly underwhelming, sure it takes a Special Hit like no other but everyone knows that, everyone is ready for it to eat up a STAB Draco Meteor from Hydreigon and revenge KO it, so people play around it. And at this point in the meta, if you don't have a solid switch in to Special moves, you might need to be reevaluating your team. Now, Goodra still does have some good points, its coverage is great. Power Whip/Earthquake/Rock Slide/Sludge Bomb/Iron Tail basically just a mixed set has the potential to put a damper on a lot of Pokemon's parades but still the 4MSS, the relatively mediocre stats (aside from Special Defense) and lack of that something that makes it really worthwhile of a mon to use is the reason I think that it is no where near good enough to go BL but will still have it's place in UU.
Infernape - We waited so long for you to finally arrive in UU and now that you're here, you definitely haven't been giving me enough bang for my buck. Like someone pointed out (can't remember who), it's kind of in a no mans land zone between all the other Fire- Types in the tier. Your Overheat is way weaker than Chandelure, your Physical movepool is shallower than Victini, you're weaker than Darm (although you do get STAB CC) and if you choose to go mixed, i'd probably still rather Victini for the job since it has far better bulk + higher base power STAB. But little Fire Monkey still has his benefits which are basically the main reasons to use him, he's the fastest Fire- Type in the tier iirc, he has access to Stealth Rock, he's neutral to Stealth Rock and STAB CC isn't too shabby either. Regardless, Infernape came, didn't even conquer and now he's pretty much relegated to the middle class area of UU.
Volcarona - Now Volcarona is a close one and tbh the jury is still out on whether or not this thing is BL worthy or not but regardless i'll give my thoughts. Having talked about Volc quite a lot in UU, it is evident that Volcarona has the potential to run a lot of sets, my favourite, however, being Life Orb + 3 Attacks (HP water Volc, which Ernesto came up with, mind you :o). This set allows to get through some of the so called 'switch ins' to Volcarona, in Chandy, Mega Aero, Infernape (to some degree), other Volcarona?, Bulky fires like Arcanine and honestly I just like the feeling of watching the HP bar drop when Life Orb Fire Blasts go flying across the screen. Anyway, do I think this set is broken? Well no, not particularly, shit like Goodra and Blissey can still switch into it like most other Volc sets and either stall out with Toxic/Soft-Boiled or KO with Rock Slide (which Goodra should be running since that is probably it's one decent niche in the UU metagame) and there's Scarfers like Mienshao and Infernape that can revenge it with Stone Edge (Shaky) and mons like Victini, Darm and Hera that could outspeed and KO if it's Modest (which I think is what most people are running) so idk in that regard the set i've been using the most isn't what I would consider 'potentially broken'. As for BulkyMoth, it takes hits better, has more opportunities to set up if it is utilising to roost, is extremely dangerous with Defog Support etc etc but idk I feel that a mon that requires so much support isn't what I really consider to be that broken. I mean don't get me wrong, Volcarona is extremely good but without a team backing it, I can't justify putting it in BL as easily as Mega Zam since all that thing requires is SR to break half the tier, so yeah for that reason I decided to vote Volc for UU (but judging by other Council members votes it will probably end up being BL'd anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
Lucario - Ah Steel doge, the based god of gen 4, the mon you could always rely on being that last hidden mon that ALWAYS seemed to be brought out at the worst time for you. Well, it's unfortunate to say, but in gen 6 UU, I don't think he's nearly as potent. While he does have the potential to run 2 sets, Nasty Plot or Swords Dance (SD being the better one IMO), both of these sets still seem to be rather lackluster given the fact it's Attack is 110 and it's Special Attack is 115. Swords Dance obviously doesn't need to boost to be effective, STAB CC is still nothing to mess with and being one of the few users in UU with access to that big +2 priority E-Speed gives Lucario a fairly substantial niche as a set up Physical Sweeper. As for the Nasty Plot set, it's slow (mostly in fact that it's not backed up by priority, well cmon Vacuum Wave is shitty), doesn't have many opportunities to set up and even when it does, if it's running Timid in order to have a hope of outspeeding anything it's weak as piss and if it's running Modest, Timid Max Speed Goodra has the potential to outspeed it. I mean c'mon, even the notion that such a 'big threat' is being outsped by Goodra just makes me sad since Lucario was such a beast in Gen 4. But oh well, the great have to fall at some point and I think Lucario might have fallen to the tier it will spend the remainder of it's Pokemon days in, UU.
Feel free, to disagree with my post, call me out, do whatever, have fun. Lemme know your guys opinions of the drops in the current meta, it might help me or the other council members better decide whether something is broken that we haven't caught on about yet so yeah :]
alakazam: uu
alakazite: bl
blissey: uu
goodra: uu
infernape: uu
volcarona: uu
lucario: uu
alakazite: bl
blissey: uu
goodra: uu
infernape: uu
volcarona: uu
lucario: uu
Added that so if you don't wanna read my wall, you can just skim and look at the votes that I chose and base any arguments you might have with solely my votes.
Alakazite - Well like I said earlier on, it will be interesting to see how this thing performs in practice and boy does it perform. Being able to 2HKO basically every wall with it's coverage, outspeed the entire metagame WITHOUT having to run a speed boosting nature and hit 493 Special Attack with a Modest nature. Do I need to say anymore? Oh yeah, it gets trace to alleviate status from shit like Blissey due to Natural Cure, Regen health from Slowbro/Moong/LoveFish, even get Sturdy from Aggron basically giving it all the benefits of Sash Zam with the Deoxys-A offensive stats. Without a doubt in my mind, i'm voting for Alakazite to BL.
Blissey - Yet another Pink blob for Limitless to add to the core. Basically, Blissey is what all the balanced players really wanted in UU, it does it's job spectacularly basically being able to stall out every Special Attack in the tier (bar Mega Zam but he's headed BL so we don't need to talk about him). What I think is the big difference between Chansey and Blissey, is with the enormous drop in Knock Off spam from the start of the meta to what it is now, Chansey would have been way too good atm where as Blissey finds it's place somewhere in the middle ground. It doesn't possess that fantastic Fairy typing that Florges has but what it does have more than makes up for it. All 255 of those Hit Points, it's access to Stealth Rock, Natural Cure, Wish and Instant Recovery (Soft-Boiled) give Blissey the edges in some areas but it's lackluster ability to take Physical hits like it's little sister Chansey is the reason I didn't think Blissey was too much for UU, which is the reason I voted UU. And just as comparison.
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 444-524 (63 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 612-720 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Goodra - Oh Goodra, how you stayed in OU for so long i'll never know. Must have been that shiny new toy mentality that we all get when new mons drop..oh lel. Regardless, I have found that Goodra is surprisingly underwhelming, sure it takes a Special Hit like no other but everyone knows that, everyone is ready for it to eat up a STAB Draco Meteor from Hydreigon and revenge KO it, so people play around it. And at this point in the meta, if you don't have a solid switch in to Special moves, you might need to be reevaluating your team. Now, Goodra still does have some good points, its coverage is great. Power Whip/Earthquake/Rock Slide/Sludge Bomb/Iron Tail basically just a mixed set has the potential to put a damper on a lot of Pokemon's parades but still the 4MSS, the relatively mediocre stats (aside from Special Defense) and lack of that something that makes it really worthwhile of a mon to use is the reason I think that it is no where near good enough to go BL but will still have it's place in UU.
Infernape - We waited so long for you to finally arrive in UU and now that you're here, you definitely haven't been giving me enough bang for my buck. Like someone pointed out (can't remember who), it's kind of in a no mans land zone between all the other Fire- Types in the tier. Your Overheat is way weaker than Chandelure, your Physical movepool is shallower than Victini, you're weaker than Darm (although you do get STAB CC) and if you choose to go mixed, i'd probably still rather Victini for the job since it has far better bulk + higher base power STAB. But little Fire Monkey still has his benefits which are basically the main reasons to use him, he's the fastest Fire- Type in the tier iirc, he has access to Stealth Rock, he's neutral to Stealth Rock and STAB CC isn't too shabby either. Regardless, Infernape came, didn't even conquer and now he's pretty much relegated to the middle class area of UU.
Volcarona - Now Volcarona is a close one and tbh the jury is still out on whether or not this thing is BL worthy or not but regardless i'll give my thoughts. Having talked about Volc quite a lot in UU, it is evident that Volcarona has the potential to run a lot of sets, my favourite, however, being Life Orb + 3 Attacks (HP water Volc, which Ernesto came up with, mind you :o). This set allows to get through some of the so called 'switch ins' to Volcarona, in Chandy, Mega Aero, Infernape (to some degree), other Volcarona?, Bulky fires like Arcanine and honestly I just like the feeling of watching the HP bar drop when Life Orb Fire Blasts go flying across the screen. Anyway, do I think this set is broken? Well no, not particularly, shit like Goodra and Blissey can still switch into it like most other Volc sets and either stall out with Toxic/Soft-Boiled or KO with Rock Slide (which Goodra should be running since that is probably it's one decent niche in the UU metagame) and there's Scarfers like Mienshao and Infernape that can revenge it with Stone Edge (Shaky) and mons like Victini, Darm and Hera that could outspeed and KO if it's Modest (which I think is what most people are running) so idk in that regard the set i've been using the most isn't what I would consider 'potentially broken'. As for BulkyMoth, it takes hits better, has more opportunities to set up if it is utilising to roost, is extremely dangerous with Defog Support etc etc but idk I feel that a mon that requires so much support isn't what I really consider to be that broken. I mean don't get me wrong, Volcarona is extremely good but without a team backing it, I can't justify putting it in BL as easily as Mega Zam since all that thing requires is SR to break half the tier, so yeah for that reason I decided to vote Volc for UU (but judging by other Council members votes it will probably end up being BL'd anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
Lucario - Ah Steel doge, the based god of gen 4, the mon you could always rely on being that last hidden mon that ALWAYS seemed to be brought out at the worst time for you. Well, it's unfortunate to say, but in gen 6 UU, I don't think he's nearly as potent. While he does have the potential to run 2 sets, Nasty Plot or Swords Dance (SD being the better one IMO), both of these sets still seem to be rather lackluster given the fact it's Attack is 110 and it's Special Attack is 115. Swords Dance obviously doesn't need to boost to be effective, STAB CC is still nothing to mess with and being one of the few users in UU with access to that big +2 priority E-Speed gives Lucario a fairly substantial niche as a set up Physical Sweeper. As for the Nasty Plot set, it's slow (mostly in fact that it's not backed up by priority, well cmon Vacuum Wave is shitty), doesn't have many opportunities to set up and even when it does, if it's running Timid in order to have a hope of outspeeding anything it's weak as piss and if it's running Modest, Timid Max Speed Goodra has the potential to outspeed it. I mean c'mon, even the notion that such a 'big threat' is being outsped by Goodra just makes me sad since Lucario was such a beast in Gen 4. But oh well, the great have to fall at some point and I think Lucario might have fallen to the tier it will spend the remainder of it's Pokemon days in, UU.
Feel free, to disagree with my post, call me out, do whatever, have fun. Lemme know your guys opinions of the drops in the current meta, it might help me or the other council members better decide whether something is broken that we haven't caught on about yet so yeah :]
You can trust me kokoloko :P
And Calloflochie you were spot on with what I wanted. They are all very good, but alakazite needs the axe
And Calloflochie you were spot on with what I wanted. They are all very good, but alakazite needs the axe
The talk about Volcarona vs Jellicent is making me think a bit about the Volcarona counter I use, Tentacruel. Tentacruel can switch in and Toxic Volcarona. It's nice that it stops Giga Drain. However, I couldn't help but feel that the moment I ran into a Chestorest Volcarona, I would be totally messed up. I NEVER ran into one so Tentacruel worked alright for me. I would imagine Cursed Body Jelli is no better than Tentacruel as it needs to rely on a luck based ability to bypass Giga Drain, and is similarly screwed over by Chesto-Rest.
The thing that reminds me most of Victini last gen is Infernape. Victini was mostly manageable, with an excellent Scarf set, but had mixed LO sets that could potentially break anything that could switch into its physical sets (eg Thunder for Slowbro, Grass Knot for Swamp/Rhyperior). When Infernape dropped, I was thinking it would be a lot like Victini last gen, with Scarf being its most common set and mixed LO being the nightmare set that kills everything. The rocks neutrality and 8 extra speed is nice for Infernape
Looking back at the last couple of weeks, I don't think Luke is really all that broken after facing so many of them, even against the higher ladder players I've faced. I dunno, maybe it's because I've adjusted to this new UU meta enough that I can pretty much check whatever I need to. In all honesty, Luke is extremely dangerous and is basically uncounterable until its set is identified, but it's multitude of weaknesses (4mss, weak to common types, etc.) should be enough for it to warrant a stay in this metagame, as opposed to something like Volcarona (meh I could see this going either way) or that bearded sonofabitch below.
Megazam on the other hand is still broken, though. Pretty much nothing can counter/hard check this thing, and on top of that, its base 150 base speed makes it really hard to revenge kill w/out priority (Sucker Punch is neutered if it has Sub) or fast scarfers. This thing in general just continues to shit on this whole metagame.
Megazam on the other hand is still broken, though. Pretty much nothing can counter/hard check this thing, and on top of that, its base 150 base speed makes it really hard to revenge kill w/out priority (Sucker Punch is neutered if it has Sub) or fast scarfers. This thing in general just continues to shit on this whole metagame.
Lots of discussion going on about the obviously broken Megazam but I haven't really seen any on regular Alakazam. Is alakazam broken in general? I haven't faced the garden variety zam enough to judge for myself, I'm curious to see what those more knowledgeable about the higher ladder think.
Alakazam is frail as hell. It works as a good revenge killer but that's pretty much it.
inb4 someone shits on me for oversimplification of alakazam
In my opinion, Regular Zam isn't broken. It is the best RK'er of the game and MegaZam's power + speed makes it hard to counter. Only thing to truly take it down is priority and Sub MegaZam (to alleviate Sucker Punch) is a thing so yea.
Bro volc has a whole bunch of checks. Its really really good but ots definitely not bl material atm. Everything else makes sense thoughJust some last minute bets on the ban votes
UU (mega, close ban)
UU
UU
close uu
UU
BL
retest later
It's just guesses, if I get 3 correct I win a sundae.
Really? The ChestoRest set usually is defeated by stuff such as any Fire type with a super effective move.
Edit: On what is broken, I agree with Calloflochie on what is broken and what isn't, even if for slightly different reasons than Lochie.
Anyway, I think that Jellicent's Recover/Toxic/Protect/Scald set with Leftovers is good if you can predict better than them. I usually can. Admittedly, it is probably I under predict so much it looks like I predict perfectly.
Well, you could simply add a member, making it 8/13 (~61.5%).
results of vote:
Alakazam: 3 BL, 9 UU | UU
Alakazite: 12 BL | BL
Blissey: 12 UU | UU
Goodra: 12 UU | UU
Infernape: 1 BL | 11 UU | UU
Volcarona: 7 BL | 5 UU | BL
Lucario: 12 UU | UU
so alakazite and volcarona will be joining the BL list and will be retested at a later date (probably soon because everything else is so fucking busted lel)
ee will not resume testing as we have been doing, and the next suspect is: Staraptor
prepare your anuses.
Alakazam: 3 BL, 9 UU | UU
Alakazite: 12 BL | BL
Blissey: 12 UU | UU
Goodra: 12 UU | UU
Infernape: 1 BL | 11 UU | UU
Volcarona: 7 BL | 5 UU | BL
Lucario: 12 UU | UU
so alakazite and volcarona will be joining the BL list and will be retested at a later date (probably soon because everything else is so fucking busted lel)
ee will not resume testing as we have been doing, and the next suspect is: Staraptor
prepare your anuses.
The one surprising thing is that someone voted voted Infernable BL. Care to explain, whomever it is?
As far as Staraptor, I hope we don't spend to much time on this. 248/0 Rhyperior is only 3HKO'd by CC 40% of the time, but other than that, it doesn't have many checks.
As far as Staraptor, I hope we don't spend to much time on this. 248/0 Rhyperior is only 3HKO'd by CC 40% of the time, but other than that, it doesn't have many checks.
I'm surprised how Lucario was unaniomusly UU while even Infernape wasn't. Volcorona, the only real split vote is very interesting to see the reasoning behind the votes and to see how it's test will be going in the future. Is there an option to post those reasoning or since it's just an initial vote to BL, there aren't any?
Anyway, looking forward to Straptor!
Anyway, looking forward to Straptor!
With more priority, I feel like Staraptor will be a lot more manageable. It's Reckless attacks are extremely powerful, but I don't think it's as strong as Reckless Mienshao's HJK, though HJK has a chance to miss, because as we know, it does have 30% accuracy. In addition, if Staraptor opts to run a wall breaking set, the 100 base speed tier allows many other mons to outspeed, such as Raikou, Mienshao, and the likes. It has basically one or two sets after the choiced sets, one being Roost, and the other being quick attack if it even gets that. Close Combat is really nice coverage on a mon that is flying/normal, but then again, non-STAB CC isn't ridiculously overpowered, especially if it is choiced lock. Bronzong, Suicine, Hippo, Slowbro, can all eat up CC's if you have a steel type. Brave Bird + DE + CC does provide awesome coverage, with U-Turn.
I think it's good in theory, but not overwhelming. I have to face it on the ladder more to make a valid opinion tho tbh
Idk, I think Staraptor could be a good addition to UU to balance out the fat mons.
I think it's good in theory, but not overwhelming. I have to face it on the ladder more to make a valid opinion tho tbh
Idk, I think Staraptor could be a good addition to UU to balance out the fat mons.
Volc has SR, which can be followed up with any (and I mean any) physical priority with it's 85/65 physical defences. Blissey's weakness is that mixed sweepers can go straight through it. I mean really it is also kinda dead from SR as it makes it in OHKO radius, even with it's large HP. My Vote:- (can't get spoiler to work for me
I don't have to say anything about goodra. Infernape can function in OU, yet it's frailty doesn't really help itself, especially as Greninja outspeeds.
Goodra UU, Alakazam UU (Mega=BL), Blissey UU, Infernape UU, Volcarona UU, Lucario=UU (mentioning mega for no reason)(Mega=Uber)
Here comes the million-dollar question:
Is Staraptor getting kicked back to BL for the third generation in a row O_________O Ernesto edit: Spoiler alert: Y
Is Staraptor getting kicked back to BL for the third generation in a row O_________O Ernesto edit: Spoiler alert: Y
Why is this even a question?
Staraptor + Lucario is gonna define this meta.
Anyway, MegaZam's banned for the reason it's banned (read earlier). So far I've seen quite a number of people complain about Lucario not being banned. Although he can theoretically break walls, he can't beat offense without a lot of his checks removed. Thus, Lucario is only good as late game sweeper/cleaner and is only strong towards the end of a game. He's less threatening, if not completely docile early game and mid game, and the only way where Lucario becomes unmanageable is when you let its teammates pick off of its counters, effectively stating that Lucario's effect on the game is conditional based on which of his checks are removed.
Staraptor's affect on Stall?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-131698952
(My win condition at the end was go into sableye taunt / Wow until blissey and alo die)
That was my stall team vs. someone w/ FLCL's stall team.
Now I know what all of you are gonna say: toxic straptor w/ Roost lol u nub
Well since my staraptor is on a stall team, I figured I'd give a surprise to everyone. I was just trying it, it was great tbh. The last 2 moves varied, at first I put Defog but then put Forretress so I changed it eventually to Whirlwind, since I'm a hazard-stacking team. Then I tried Feather Dance for lolz but then I realized after the previous match I do need Close Combat as Staraptor 2HKO-es Blissey w/ CC after SR without any investment. So my final set was CC/Toxic/Roost/Whirlwind.
It actually works great.
Why didn't I run good old Scarf/CB Raptor?
Scarf was outclassed by Scarf Reckless Mienshao and Scarf Nape and even Scarf Tini and Scarf Darmanitan, not only because the Shao, Tini, and Darm have more power and then Nape has more coverage, but also because the former 2 win 1v1 if SR are up. Furthermore, Scarf Raptor is hard stopped by Mega Aero. Scarf raptor is also ass against stall, generally Choiced mons aren't good against hardcore stall. But Raptor lacks power too.
Regarding Aeroactyl: I actually ran into Kokoloko on the ladder w/ my Dark Horse team, aside frorm being rekt, he had a Physically defensive Aerodactyl that did amazing against my team. And since Mega Aero/Aero is more common because it checks all the drops, it is really common and I've seen many sets, even one w/ Fly. So I, again, figured Scarf wasn't best choice.
CB does work against stall, probs best stallbreaker in the meta since it can 2HKO both Fortress, Alomomola, Blissey, Florges, Slowbro, and CroCune without SE moves, Staraptor is un-wall-able; however, CB staraptor is ass against HO. after all, 100 speed tier isn't good against HO in this meta, CB/LO Nape, LO Shao, Scarf Tini/CB tini if wins speed tie, Crobat, Mega Aero, Zam, etc. it gets outspeed and OHKOed a lot easy. Not only that, but recoil racks up like shit against stall, like you can kill a suicune but if he baits you into BB and then switches into Blissey as fodder your dead.
What about Toxic Roost Raptor?
It does amazing against stall w/ Hazard support, ToxicStall + Whirlwind when hazards are up and the ability to 2HKO Blissey w/o investment is crazy. It also does amazing against Balanced for the aforementioned reasons. Then, how about HO? Intimidate stops physical attackers and lets Raptor switch on them, Toxic w/ Hazards + Whirlwind wears them down, Whirlwind also prevents setting up, and finally, Roost heals up any damage. It did great.
tl;dr, toxic roost raptor did not do as great as CB against stall or Scarf against HO; however, it did good at both of them at the same time which the former 2 sets cannot do that.
inb4 hate on toxic roost raptor.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-131698952
(My win condition at the end was go into sableye taunt / Wow until blissey and alo die)
That was my stall team vs. someone w/ FLCL's stall team.
Now I know what all of you are gonna say: toxic straptor w/ Roost lol u nub
Well since my staraptor is on a stall team, I figured I'd give a surprise to everyone. I was just trying it, it was great tbh. The last 2 moves varied, at first I put Defog but then put Forretress so I changed it eventually to Whirlwind, since I'm a hazard-stacking team. Then I tried Feather Dance for lolz but then I realized after the previous match I do need Close Combat as Staraptor 2HKO-es Blissey w/ CC after SR without any investment. So my final set was CC/Toxic/Roost/Whirlwind.
It actually works great.
Why didn't I run good old Scarf/CB Raptor?
Scarf was outclassed by Scarf Reckless Mienshao and Scarf Nape and even Scarf Tini and Scarf Darmanitan, not only because the Shao, Tini, and Darm have more power and then Nape has more coverage, but also because the former 2 win 1v1 if SR are up. Furthermore, Scarf Raptor is hard stopped by Mega Aero. Scarf raptor is also ass against stall, generally Choiced mons aren't good against hardcore stall. But Raptor lacks power too.
Regarding Aeroactyl: I actually ran into Kokoloko on the ladder w/ my Dark Horse team, aside frorm being rekt, he had a Physically defensive Aerodactyl that did amazing against my team. And since Mega Aero/Aero is more common because it checks all the drops, it is really common and I've seen many sets, even one w/ Fly. So I, again, figured Scarf wasn't best choice.
CB does work against stall, probs best stallbreaker in the meta since it can 2HKO both Fortress, Alomomola, Blissey, Florges, Slowbro, and CroCune without SE moves, Staraptor is un-wall-able; however, CB staraptor is ass against HO. after all, 100 speed tier isn't good against HO in this meta, CB/LO Nape, LO Shao, Scarf Tini/CB tini if wins speed tie, Crobat, Mega Aero, Zam, etc. it gets outspeed and OHKOed a lot easy. Not only that, but recoil racks up like shit against stall, like you can kill a suicune but if he baits you into BB and then switches into Blissey as fodder your dead.
What about Toxic Roost Raptor?
It does amazing against stall w/ Hazard support, ToxicStall + Whirlwind when hazards are up and the ability to 2HKO Blissey w/o investment is crazy. It also does amazing against Balanced for the aforementioned reasons. Then, how about HO? Intimidate stops physical attackers and lets Raptor switch on them, Toxic w/ Hazards + Whirlwind wears them down, Whirlwind also prevents setting up, and finally, Roost heals up any damage. It did great.
tl;dr, toxic roost raptor did not do as great as CB against stall or Scarf against HO; however, it did good at both of them at the same time which the former 2 sets cannot do that.
inb4 hate on toxic roost raptor.
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You should say what evs youre using so that people can judge it better since staraptor is not exactly bulky also #uubird.
248 HP / 8 Def / 252+ SpD, I'm thinking about making it 248 HP / 252+ Def / 8 SpD, but it's working so far for me.
Also forgot to mention that I have been switching between CC and BB for Blissey or Florges, since I have Sableye I'm leaning more towards BB (since I have roost and also counters fighting types better)
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