NU Discussion Thread [Ancient]

[Skwog]

If stealth rock is banned then I can see a shit storm impending about things like articuno being broken. Stealth rock is just too important to ban, you can always use taunt magic coat or rapid spin to keep them off the field, I really don't think stealth rock should be banned but we'll see.

Except the problem with spinning to keep them off the field is there are hardly any spinners in this tier, and the only decently usable one is Kabutops.

And Articuno would be far from broken in this tier. It's attack stats are only average, and it is weak to fire, electric, rock, and steel, the first two of which are fairly common attack types. Heck, Magcargo of all things wall this guy beyond belief unless Articuno runs Water Pulse, but that's a waste of a moveslot.

Overall there's just too many Pokes down in this tier that would love to be used but are completely stopped by, in essence, the unstoppable power of Stealth Rocks down here. This meta is going to be centralized around that one move, and when you have to devote two slots to stop it (one to spin, one to kill the SRer), there's a problem.

 

[AceTrainerJason]

Except the problem with spinning to keep them off the field is there are hardly any spinners in this tier, and the only decently usable one is Kabutops.

And Articuno would be far from broken in this tier. It's attack stats are only average, and it is weak to fire, electric, rock, and steel, the first two of which are fairly common attack types. Heck, Magcargo of all things wall this guy beyond belief unless Articuno runs Water Pulse, but that's a waste of a moveslot.

Overall there's just too many Pokes down in this tier that would love to be used but are completely stopped by, in essence, the unstoppable power of Stealth Rocks down here. This meta is going to be centralized around that one move, and when you have to devote two slots to stop it (one to spin, one to kill the SRer), there's a problem.

Erm there are multiple moves that can stop a stealth rocker, no one is forcing you to use those pokemon who can't switch into sr a lot also it's common knowledge that if you do you should run a spinner if you don't that's foolish and your fault. It isn't hard to keep rocks off of the field as long as you aren't a moron. Taunt Magic Coat Spin three viable moves that can be used, if you don't want to run spin or any of those then having one SR weakness isn't bad since you can recover it off with roost if your a flying type. My point is you have options not anyones fault if you ignore them then get wrecked <3. How about NU comes out and then testing is done $100 that SR isn't banned. Also kabutops isn't really bad at all, I don't see why you need to even keep sr off the field if you only have one pokemon weak to it and if you don't congrats you just created a team that gets raped by rock types, should we ban rock types just for having rock type moves? SR takes a turn to set up so you can send in the SR weak mon if you so desire. My main point you have completely viable options in taunt and magic coat to keep SR off the field and yes rapid spin as well no reason to ban it if you lack the skill to keep it off the field.

 

[eriados]

Delcatty is useful, because it can paralyze Ground types with its excellent ability, Normalize. Assuming it has been released, of course.

 

[Pisti]

Delcatty has had its ability Normalize since gen 3, iirc, so it would be fine.

 

[melvni]

Delcatty has had its ability Normalize since gen 3, iirc, so it would be fine.

Gen 4 actually. It makes Delcatty interesting I suppose, but I'd rather not use something with all of its stats equal or worse than Castform's.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Delcatty still sucks though, bad stats, outclassed by Purugly, and Normalise gets walled by Haunter. :/

 

[Scorpio]

Delcatty still sucks though, bad stats, outclassed by Purugly, and Normalise gets walled by every ghost ever made ever. :/

Correction.

 

[PsuedoSaku]

Actually, Delcatty gets Wonder Skin, which is like a piece of crap Magic Guard that doesn't block everything and only works 50% of the time. Also, if you can (IF) get some Work Ups, you can have a mildly potent mixed sweeper, with SP for priority, Ice Beam for those nasty Gligars and Double Edge for stab. It works pretty well.

 

[melvni]

Delcatty is terrible. I remember someone mentioning it is the least used fully evolved Pokemon in RU. There is a reason for this (SEE average base stat of 63/no base stat above 70).

On another note, would eviolite Machoke have any niche that would make it superior to Throh down here? They both have nice base 100 atk, similarish bulk (80/70/60 + eviolite vs. 120/85/85), and terrible SpAtk/Spd. Obviously Machoke would be generally a weaker choice, necessitating wish support due to its lack of recovery and probably being a little less bulky anyway (I haven't checked this, X-act gives Machoke: 363/309/315 mixed versus Throh 444/256/253 mixed). Would No Guard be the only reason to use it?

 

[Benny in a Jet]

No Guard and access to the elemental punches for some coverage. But I'd say Throh is still the better choice.

 

[un?lucky]

What are peoples opinons on basing NU on a percentage from the bottom of the ladder instead of right after RU?

 

[UltiMario]

What about all the mons between the RU cutoff and the NU usage? Do you want to just pretend they don't exist?

 

[GDK]

What about all the mons between the RU cutoff and the NU usage? Do you want to just pretend they don't exist?

No that's not it.

He says NU will be the bottom ladder, THEN, all the reste will be RU.

Actually they want to make RU the old NU, but making NU the utter trash tier that only have delcatty magikarp and unown

 

[UltiMario]

The RU tier list would be completely wrong then and there would be at least 100 mons that arent any good in RU would be called RU anyways.

NU is supposed to be the bottom. The only tier where the top and the useless in the tier to be globbed together.

Imagine, it could be worse. RU could not exist at all and you could be dealing with NU Yanmega or something.

 

[Oglemi]

Just to clear up the confusion:

RU is a usage based tier that will use the same usage statistics as OU and UU, meaning that the cut-off point between RU and NU will be the 3.41% usage in RU. Everything below that usage percentage in RU will be in NU.

Also, why the fuck are you discussing Delcatty >.> It's fucking terrible no matter where you go, even in NU. Use Persian, Purugly, or Purloin if you want to use a craptastic cat Pokemon.

As for Rapid Spinners, you guys still have access to:

Claydol (maybe)
Armaldo
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee (maybe)
Sandslash
Torkoal
Cryogonal (maybe)

and Spinda, Delibird, and Eviolite Tentacool, Staryu, and Drilbur if you're desperate.

 

[UltiMario]

Sort of like old NU, I see Sandslash being the big spinner... unless Claydol by some miracle falls.

 

[melvni]

As for Rapid Spinners, you guys still have access to:

Claydol (maybe)
Armaldo
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee (maybe)
Sandslash
Torkoal
Cryogonal (maybe)

and Spinda, Delibird, and Eviolite Tentacool, Staryu, and Drilbur if you're desperate.

Based on the June Stats:

Claydol - 11th in RU at 10.6361, not gonna fall
Armaldo - 145th in RU at .7308, definitely gonna be down here, but he's stealth rock weak
Hitmonchan - 52nd in RU at 3.4884, might fall, probably at least 50-50 or so
Hitmonlee - 54th in RU at 3.4110, might fall, probably at least 50-50 or so
Sandslash - 51st in RU at 3.5262, might fall, probably at least 50-50 or so
Torkoal - 105th in RU at 1.4616, definitely gonna be down here, but he's stealth rock weak
Cryogonal - 58th in RU at 3.1554, might stay low enough, probably at least 50-50 or so, also stealth rock weak

Spinda, Delibird, and Eviolite Tentacool, Staryu, and Drilbur - 284th, 230th, 181st, 315th, and 376th in RU, awful

Yes there are options besides Kabutops, though Claydol definitely won't be one of them. However, out of the eleven potential ones you mentioned, five are terrible, four are stealth rock weak, and four might not even be in the tier when all is said and done. The reason people are discussing the possibility that stealth rock might be broken in NU isn't that there aren't any spinners, it's that the options, except for Kabutops all have large flaws.

Yes, this will probably be a moot point if the Hitmon's and Sandslash end up down here with Kabutops. If that happens, there would be four definitely viable mon's down here for people to use, eliminating the issue for the most part. However, since they're essentially on what will become the line dividing the tiers, this can't be counted on.

 

[GtM]

Apart from being Stealth Rock weak, Armaldo's good. He can function sort of like Rhyperior except withwrose Def, better SpD and without STAB Earthquake, but Rock Blast hits most things that Earthquake hits in NU. I've used a set of Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Rock Blast / X Scissor in RU and it's been pretty good.