Even with the usage in mind I don't really think it's appropriate for now given that psychic types are going to be much bigger players now. While Skuntank can beat it, you can still outplay it with sub at least if you predict what the Skuntank will do etc or just put it to sleep before it taunts you or tries to Sucker Punch, and even with sub can OHKO Cacturne etc (altho that isn't very hard to be OHKO'd but still). Without those you mentioned even Mushy won't be able to kill it before Jynx does if it's already subbed and Mushy doesn't predict properly, idk while Pinsir and Samurott can take it on (tho lovely kiss etc for the latter) I just don't think right now is really the right time to do that, given what's left. Although the fact that it can set up on Ludicolo with CM would be nice. :(Edit: Food for thought, given the chances in the tier, might it be an opportunity to suspect test Jynx, who would have fallen to NU based on usage? We survived amoonguss with Spore dominating the tier, maybe Jynx won't be so broken with the massive changes. Then again, several of her biggest potential checks in Cincinno, Absol, and a scarfed Emboar just left the tier...
This is true, although in general Zangoose hasn't had ladder usage that adequately reflects how devastating of a sweeper it is imo, partially due to the popularity of Cincinno and how easy that was to use in comparison to Zangoose. Also, saying that Regirock outclasses Golem is false. Personally I prefer Regirock and thus use it on more of my teams, but in some teams Golem is better, as it has priority, dual STABs, is better offensively that other Rock-types in the tier, and makes a great Electric-type check, among other things. Also, being specially weak isn't as big of a deal as the threats you're trying to check with a Rock-type are primarily physical (Flying, Normal, etc.) and the special attackers of the tier usually have coverage moves or STABs that are super-effective on both Regirock and Golem (such as how Psychic-types usually have fighting coverage), making neither good checks to them. I agree that Regirock is superior defensively, but saying that Regirock is a superior Golem is false, as they surpass each other in different ways.Zangoose was down because Hail + Toxic Orb damage racked up pretty fast, and he would die pretty easily.
Priority Sucker Punch seems nice on paper, but it's really not that great. Things like Kadabra wouldn't stay in on Golem or Regirock, and max HP max defense Musharna takes 41.3-48.6% from Adamant max attack Golem, meaning it can take it, kill Golem, then heal off the damage. I don't have time to do the calcs now (I will later), but I'm pretty sure that basically every psychic type that would stay in on Golem can take a sucker punch anyway.. Also, saying that Regirock outclasses Golem is false. Personally I prefer Regirock and thus use it on more of my teams, but in some teams Golem is better, as it has priority, dual STABs, is better offensively that other Rock-types in the tier, and makes a great Electric-type check, among other things.
It's not that big a deal, but it's an advantage nonetheless. At the end of the day, Regirock can be a special wall, Golem can't.Also, being specially weak isn't as big of a deal as the threats you're trying to check with a Rock-type are primarily physical (Flying, Normal, etc.) and the special attackers of the tier usually have coverage moves or STABs that are super-effective on both Regirock and Golem (such as how Psychic-types usually have fighting coverage), making neither good checks to them. I agree that Regirock is superior defensively, but saying that Regirock is a superior Golem is false, as they surpass each other in different ways
OK, good luck sweeping with base 45 speed. Rock Blast is a boon for Golem, but Golem really shouldn't be your main check to substituting pokes anyway, as Rock Blast isn't guaranteed to hit 5 times every time. Relying on that WILL cost you many games, so it's whatever. Sturdy is irrelevant, as Regirock will get that soon anyway. Even then, it doesn't matter. Both Regirock and Golem are designed to take hits and tank back multiple times throughout the battle, which means the only time you'll have Sturdy up is when it doesn't matter one bit, like in lead matchups with Regirock, other Golem, Piloswine, whatever. Sucker Punch is unreliable priority too. It's fairly easy to predict around, and will fail against other priority users. Anything frail enough to be taken out by Golem's sucker punch can probably also be taken out by Regirock taking a hit and finishing it off. Not to say priority isn't good on it, but it's not enough to justify using it over Regirock.for saying one, Regirock can't learn Rock Blast while Golem can, and with it he can sweeps or forces multiple Flying/Ice/Bug pokes most notably Ninjask. Golem has Sturdy to pratically guarantee Stealth Rock on the field or to take an huge damage and hit back in emergency cases (like an over boosted sweeper). Sucker Punch is not used to kill Psychic type principally, but is used as a priority move for weaked opponents. You hardly find yourself using Sucker Punch at the beginning of a match, SP is used in mid-late game if you decide to not sacrifice Golem once you set up your Stealth Rock.
The dual STAB of Golem is useful principally to hit neutral mons. I think it's obviuous that a SE Attack coming from a decent attack stat is going to OHKO a pokémon, especially Skuntank that usually runs no DEF EV.
Regirock is more saw as a utility mon that can actually do some damages to the opponent, that's why he usually runs things like T-Wave/Toxic+Stealth Rock+Rock Slide/Stone Edge+Filler, while Golem usually is used as a SR setter and bulky attacker since his usual set is SR+Rock Blast+EarthQ+Sucker Punch.
For the Eletric attacks, Golem is a check, like when you predict that the opponent's Rotom-F/S is going to locked itself in a Volt Switch/Thunderbolt and Golem can come in for free, that obviusly a base example, since i think that if your opponent see a Ground pokémon in your team, he/she'll going to not spam Electric attacks and that's another advantage to have Golem in your team (or a Ground pokemon in general).
So, both Golem and Regirock have their good points and the choose of one of them depends of what you need in your team.
OK, good luck sweeping with base 45 speed. Rock Blast is a boon for Golem, but Golem really shouldn't be your main check to substituting pokes anyway, as Rock Blast isn't guaranteed to hit 5 times every time. Relying on that WILL cost you many games, so it's whatever. Sturdy is irrelevant, as Regirock will get that soon anyway. Even then, it doesn't matter. Both Regirock and Golem are designed to take hits and tank back multiple times throughout the battle, which means the only time you'll have Sturdy up is when it doesn't matter one bit, like in lead matchups with Regirock, other Golem, Piloswine, whatever. Sucker Punch is unreliable priority too. It's fairly easy to predict around, and will fail against other priority users. Anything frail enough to be taken out by Golem's sucker punch can probably also be taken out by Regirock taking a hit and finishing it off. Not to say priority isn't good on it, but it's not enough to justify using it over Regirock.
Regirock can still pull off an attacking tank set extremely well, ESPECIALLY as it gets Drain Punch, something Golem lacks. Regirock is not outclassed at all in this role. However, Golem cannot pull a supportive set off, meaning Regirock outclasses it there. Regirock can even pull pseudo swords dance with swagger and pysch up (which with Musharna Trick Room support makes for some pretty lolzy matches). Golem has one set; bulky stealth rock tank. Everything else Golem does is done better by Regirock, and Regirock can do the one thing Golem can just as well. Regirock can also do things Golem cannot do, like support. There's one Golem set listed on his analysis, and there are three Regirock sets. That says a lot.
And as I said previously, Golem is not a fantastic check to electric types. Good players will never spam electric moves when Golem is around, and will instead destroy it with HP Grass, HP Ice, Giga Drain, or whatever. Whereas with Regirock, you can switch in with impunity, taking minimal damage from either a STAB electric move or a super effective HP (because Regirock actually can take special hits surprisingly well, with the same special bulk as Ludicolo).
Don't get me wrong, Golem is a good pokemon, but Regirock is just better. If you prefer Golem, that's fine, it can still function well. But Regirock will do most everything Golem does better than it, something which cannot be overlooked at high level play. You won't notice against your typical ladder player who has a team full of Kanto staples, but when facing a great opponent, I would pick Regirock every time.
THIS. For all the people that mindlessly switch Regirock into Braviary: I love you. You people have won me more games than I can count. Braviary simply abuses SubRoost to stall out the EIGHT uses of Stone Edge that Regirock gets, and you're home free past that (inb4 mention of Rock Slide). Golem can prevent itself from being set-up fodder with Rock Blast, due to higher PP, and the ability to break subs. So as a check/counter to one of the most dangerous (IMO) set-up sweepers in NU, Golem wins.The time that Rock Blast hit against this pokemon is rarely relevant and can serves to give to things like SubBU Braviary an hard time (if he's not already starts to setup a bunch of BUs) while Regirock must use Psych Up to have a chance against him (or catching on the switch with T-Wave).
The NU ladder seriously scares me sometimes. But nothing is scarier than this:| 14 | Charizard | 11092 | 8.253% | 8846 | 8.010% |
I know this thing isn't THAT bad in NU, as it's extremely powerful Fire Blasts are hard to switch into. But all the way up at 14, in a metagame with very little spin support? Blows my mind..
| 33 | Wartortle | 7779 | 5.788% | 6447 | 5.838% |
Stop. Using. This. I swear, this is the biggest set up fodder OF ALL TIME.
| 70 | Audino | 3964 | 2.950% | 3087 | 2.795% |
Why all the way down at 70? High HP, access to Heal Bell, Wish, Regenerator, and both screens. Seriously, this needs more love.
| 74 | Zebstrika | 3817 | 2.840% | 3127 | 2.832% |
This seems really low, I see Zebstrika all the time on the ladder.
| 77 | Pikachu | 3664 | 2.726% | 2910 | 2.635% |
| 81 | Raichu | 3511 | 2.613% | 2862 | 2.592% |
Lol, poor Raichu. Even a horrible pun opportunity (Raichu a love song) can't save this mouse from being overtaken by its pre-vo.
| 94 | Golbat | 2835 | 2.110% | 2354 | 2.132% |
Again, this needs more love. Stall-breaker Golbat with Taunt, BB, Roost, U-turn is a menace in NU with all the fighting.
| 177 | Seadra | 671 | 0.499% | 573 | 0.519% |
| 180 | Frillish | 614 | 0.457% | 529 | 0.479% |
Possibly the two best bulky waters are all the way down at 180.. What is WRONG with you people..
| 183 | Stantler | 607 | 0.452% | 474 | 0.429% |
I'm surprised this wan't used more when Amoongus was popular, as it could switch into Spore/Giga/Stun Spore and get a boost with Sap Sipper.
| 242 | Magikarp | 104 | 0.077% | 70 | 0.063% |
| 280 | Gloom | 35 | 0.026% | 27 | 0.024% |
| 298 | Palpitoad | 23 | 0.017% | 22 | 0.020% |
I don't know what I hate more.. The fact that Magikarp was used 70 times, or the fact that it beat out 2 decent users of Eviolite. Is there no justice in the world?
dragmag....................... 0.016%
This is just like.. WUUUUTT?
1) What "dragons" are you using? Altaria and Fraxure? That's 2 of the 4 that you need to run.
2) Who are you using to Mag? Probopass and... Magnemite?
3) Why are you even bothering with Magnet Pull pokemon, the only viable Steels in NU are Mawile and other Probopass.. This is just weird.
sunstall...................... 0.003%
Generally a good rule of thumb is to do big damage during your limited 5/8 turns. Sun stall isn't even that effective anyway, so why try it with manual sun?
+----------------------------------------+
| Braviary |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Defiant 59.524% |
| Sheer Force 32.681% |
| Keen Eye 7.794%
I agree that Bravairy's abilities aren't too useful, but there's no reason NOT to run Defiant/Sheer Force |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Choice Scarf 28.914% :[ |
| Leftovers 28.638% |
| Choice Band 22.716% |
| Life Orb 12.804% |
| Expert Belt 1.573% |
| Flying Gem 0.821% Hello? It doesn't even get acrobatics.. |
| Other 4.534% What else can you run? I really am curious as to what the other 4.5% of Bravairy ACTUALLY CARRIED |
+----------------------------------------+
| Natures |
| Adamant 42.294% |
| Jolly 28.661% |
| Careful 22.470% This is partially why SubBU is SO good, only 20% of people run it, so most people don't see it coming. Thank you to all that still run scarf/band, you really help me out! |
| Hardy 4.219% |
| Other 2.355% |
+----------------------------------------+
| EV spreads |
| 0/252/0/0/4/252 18.504% |
| 4/252/0/0/0/252 16.517% |
| 252/252/0/0/4/0 11.554% |
| 252/0/0/0/192/64 9.705% Only half of SubBU Braviary run the optimal EV spread.. Why. |
| 80/252/0/0/0/176 8.416% |
| 0/252/4/0/0/252 5.869% |
| Other 29.436% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Brave Bird 97.821% |
| Superpower 63.237% |
| U-turn 56.793% |
| Return 46.789% |
| Roost 37.768% |
| Bulk Up 31.584% |
| Rock Slide 28.170% |
| Substitute 26.697% So 5% of people run Bulk Up without Sub? Interesting choice :/ |
| Other 11.139% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Teammates |
| Cinccino 18.105% |
| Golurk 16.509% |
| Emboar 14.607% |
| Skuntank 14.507% |
| Sawk 14.016% |
| Amoonguss 13.088% |
| Musharna 12.720% |
| Absol 11.952% |
| Ludicolo 11.063% |
| Gardevoir 10.817% |
| Alomomola 10.311% |
| Armaldo 9.812% |
| Other 342.493% TBH, this list just looks like the Top 10 in NU. |
+----------------------------------------+
| Checks and Counters |
+----------------------------------------+
The BEST part of the statistics, the Checks and Counters section is blank. Seems reasonable, Bravairy's pretty legit, but NO counters? Damn.
This is what I was actually saying, sorry if I wasn't clear enough :P Golem has a small niche with higher offences, and regirock is an overall better wall over the long-term.My point is that in the majority of cases Regirock will be the better one to have.
just a side note, but you can still post a rmt even after cinccino is banned as long as you make it clear that you used it before the tier shifts.I will miss all those who have moved up to RU; Cinccino was saddening though predicted. (I was finishing a RMT for her, then she moved for RU.. So yea, wasted work ;-;)