1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

NU Viability Ranking

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Annoyer, Oct 10, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    518
    hypno being the single best counter to jynx (considering grumpig requires you use something as sleep fodder) makes it better than it was last meta. primeape doesn't really do that much with u-turn and hypno can just wish on the u-turn and protect on the next. Scolipede is somewhat forced to attack fearing psychic which means hypno will usualy just switch-out. Hypno is a special wall so it's normal he's weak to physical attackers and shouldn't go down in ranking because of that. This being said, hypno still suffers from 4 move slot syndrome, is pursuit weak and is somewhat of a loss of momentum, so I think C rank is just fine
  2. Ashley11

    Ashley11

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    354
    I would like to designate Kadabra for A rank. This pokemon has many things going for it. First, is its great offensive stats. Kadabra has the potential to dent major holes into teams, and revenge kill with its great speed. It has a great ability in magic guard, allowing it to utilize a focus sash with success, immune to spikes and stealth rocks, immune to burn and toxic, and doesn't take life orb damage if using life orb. Kadabra also has access to encore, a great move to stop walls that try to beat Kadabra. Kadabra also has many moves to have coverage, and can utilize a sub or encore to beat skuntank as well, especially with a focus sash, meaning it can't really get pursuit trapped. Kadabra can beat fighting types except primape as well. IMO Kadabra deserves A rank. What do u think?
  3. Dell

    Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    528
    I'm not sure that I'd support the idea on promoting Kadabra moving up to A-rank, though it is something interesting to talk about for now, I suppose. It is a good Psychic-type Pokemon in its ways, but there are a few glaring flaws that leaves it a lot to be desired by A-rank standards. First off, as the most obvious is its frailty for a Psychic-type, as it provides little to no defensive synergy towards most offensive teams; even Jynx is better in this regard thanks to Dry Skin and slightly higher Special Defense.

    The detriment of having to choose from Focus Sash or Life Orb and the fact that it's still reliably trapped by bulky Skuntank is also one of the primary obstacles as to why it would have a lot of trouble finding a teamslot over Jynx and Gardevoir (more so towards the former). Without running Focus Sash, Kadabra becomes a lot more susceptible towards the nature of the many frail offense teams that runs rampant in the metagame as to what it beats, loses to, and get revenge killed by. Should Kadabra opt for Focus Sash, while then from there it does sport some decent revenge killing capabilities, however its power becomes something that isn't really comparable to that of Jynx and Gardevoir, which can put it into situations in which something can take a hit noticeably easier and strike back in return for the very likely KO once its Focus Sash has been activated. This also leaves it quite prone of becoming revenge killed by popular priority and Choice Scarf users such as Primeape or Kadabra.

    With that being said, I think it should stay into B-rank where it belongs for now.
  4. Anty

    Anty

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    874
    I would like to put mothim at D-Rank or even c-rank.

    I know it cannot baton pass or put things to sleep but it has much higher special attack than the other quiver dancers and it is easier to sweep with if there are no stealth rocks.

    I have also tried out a flying gem acrobatics and a cb set but its only physical bug move is u-turn and it need r spin support.
  5. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    575
    Mothim for D-Rank?

    Mothim isn't mediocre, it's plain bad. Having no sleep inducing move or Baton Pass grants it no niche over Butterfree or Masquerain, who aren't very good as well. The better base Special Attack doesn't matter that much because Butterfree has just less than 15 base Special Attack points from it as well as Tinted Lens to hit resists harder. It's slow and frail making it hard for it to setup in the first place. Acrobatics may seem cool, but it doesn't have any other good physical move. It should stay in its current rank imo.

    There might be no good spinners residing in the tier, but we all know if there are no rocks, Charizard will wreck the battlefield. As Charizard usually is in offensive teams, setting up rocks is not easy in the faces of Taunt Samurott and Choice Band Sawk. If rocks are on the field though, Charizard will just try to find an oppurtunity to safely switch in and deal some serious damage to the opposing team. It also has ROOST to negate its SR weakness, so its not completely crippled by rocks for the rest of the match. Also, as I said on my post a page or two before, nothing counters Charizard. I propose it for A-Rank unless someone states a good enough argument otherwise.
    Magcargo likes this.
  6. Anty

    Anty

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    874
    Charizard is fine where it is. It does have decent speed an so attack but the stealth rock damage really hurts it. Also the increase popularity of rock slide scolipede, zebstrika and swellow, who is faster and more powerful (after guts) than charizard hurts him. Alomomola walls him and if he is running sunny day he gets worn down quickly. The best set is probably the scarf sets, as he wins against 3 of the 4 drops, but you will have to switch out a lot and wit scarf you cannot roost and without scarf sawk, rotom and several othe scarfers reck him.
  7. JoshuaMunoz

    JoshuaMunoz

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    575
    Your argument seems very flawed. Stealth Rock is the only thing preventing Charizard from being a top-tier threat, and there is always the possibility that SR is not going to be set up. You also say that the recent increase in usage of Zebstrika, Swellow, and Scolipede hinder Charizard's performance, well yes, that is indeed correct, but it also hinders Scolipede's survivability, does that make it an A-Rank Pokemon, or B? No. Every Pokemon has checks/counters that prevent them from being overpowered, that is why tiers are implemented and some are considered good in a certain tier, or bad. I know I'm getting off the point, sorry about that. But seriously, saying if Charizard not carrying a scarf makes it vulnerable to scarf Sawk, Rotom, or Braviary: Of course it does, since that's what they do, they're what we call revenge killers. There's also a thing called switching out, which I know Charizard has trouble doing in the first place if rocks are on the field, but it can be used later on as a late game sweeper (it also has Blaze to hit stuff harder when at a low amount of HP).

    And Alomomola walling Charizard? Are you assuming that every Charizard is using a physical set? LO HP [Grass] from Charizard 2HKOs it, and it outspeeds. Solar Power damage hurts it, correct, but it exchanges the HP for POWER. Name me one Pokemon that cannot be 2HKOd from Choice Specs Solar Power Sun-Boosted Fire Blast other than Flash Fire users. I still feel that Charizard should be promoted to A-Rank.
  8. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,659
    Munchlax lol.

    In all seriousness, the greatest problem I have when using Charizard is his survivability. Between Stealth Rock, Solar Power or/and Life Orb, Charizard very rarely gets more than one kill per match under most circumstances due to the pilings of residual damage eventually killing him faster than he does to opponents. Charizard's power is only good outside of Sun. Under the sun, he sacrifices survivability for that infamous face-melting power you've all grown so accustomed to, but that's precisely the issue. Solar Power Charizard can score a kill, but after SR cutting half his health (a trait no A-Ranker has), he will be losing so much health that most any Scarfer or priority will take him down, or Charizard will simply be worn down too much to do more. If you want Zard to do more, keeping SR off the field is a must, and anti-leads such as Sawk work better in paper than on practice, while Spinners easily lose you momentum, which is usually enough to deter most players for putting that much effort into Zard.

    There's a reason Charizard isn't on every teambuilder's threat list, as Stealth Rock, which every competent team should have, is usually enough to keep Zard's presence in check. B-Rank is fine as t is.
  9. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,806
    I would like to bring up wartortle for B rank?

    While having so much hate on the stats, wartortle (for this post turtle :]) is actually very effective in the current metagame. The drops that are primeape and scolipede get walled so easily by it it isn't funny. In a tier where people go to god knows what for spinning, watortle's move rapid spin is a complete godsend. It pairs very well with top-tier threats such as charizard (I agree with charizard for A btw) and almost any bug type. Not only because both can resort over to wartortle with their pretty weak physical bulk, but also their weakness to stealth rocks and in terms of scolipede, weakness to spikes. It is almost a given on any good stall team thanks to it's great physical bulk and ability to spin, once again mentioned. It can run toxic for stall teams, scald to burn or both pretty effectively and, once a team is weakened a lot, can go on a pretty hard rampage. And I'm not only saying that because I got swept by one.

    In my opinion wartortle would be fitting for A rank if not for several reasons:
    It doesn't have very good offensive stats to take advantage of, despite being usable.
    It is out-classed by misdreavus in a significant number of ways.
    It's sets are usually pretty predictable.
    Everyone uses an electric type these days.

    To sum everything up, wartortle has very good physical bulk, ability to run various sets to a pretty high standard and even an ability to switch from wall to half-decent sweeper part-way through the match. Not to mention it has the same special bulk as it does physical, meaning it isn't hurt that much on the special side either. Usually you put physically defensive EVs into wartortle though.

    Anyway, that is my proposition for Wartortle.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    I would also like to propose Mawile for B rank.

    Mawile, while seemingly out-classed by Metang, is very much usable in today's meta game. While the drop of primeape doesn't help it in the slightest, it walls Scolipede (not running earthquake, which isn't really effective on scolipede anyway) with incredible ease, and with access to a much sought-after ability in intimidate what could go wrong?
    If your team has trouble with jynx, then mawile is once again your man.
    252SpAtk Jynx (+SAtk) Ice Beam vs 252HP/0SpDef Mawile (Neutral): 41% - 49% (126 - 149 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    0Atk Sheer Force Mawile (Neutral) Fire Fang vs 0HP/0Def Dry Skin Jynx (Neutral): 108% - 127% (294 - 346 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    You don't even need investment in special defense!

    Mawile got much better with the drops, with intimidate it can get free switches for your team just by switching into physical attacks and even set up swords dance for itself with the switch your opponent will inevitably do.

    Mawile has baton pass, making it a very good addition to many baton pass teams out there. While it may only boost it's own stats with swords dance, that you should take notice of, at least, it has many assets in baton pass such as very respectable bulk, intimidate once again and the steel typing. I haven't actually used baton pass before, however, so I can't say much on the subject.

    Mawile is a great sunny day setter on sun teams in NU. With resistance to rock and ability to taunt it becomes a great anti-lead as well, if, like electrode, you don't mind holding an air balloon!

    For sunny day teams, mawile can lend a hand with it's rock resist, powerful sheer force and sun boosted fire fangs if you choose to pass on intimidate which does absolutely loads in sun. While it is mostly out-classed by regirock in this role, mawile is always something to keep in mind while team-building in sun.

    As an anti-lead mawile is incredibly good, in actual fact, I use it on any of my teams that seriously don't like stealth rocks. (mainly sun teams!) As an anti-lead alone, it's amazing arsenal of effective moves can have it prepared for any good lead and many pokemon as a whole.

    Now what does Mawile have over metang I hear you say? Well, shnen said it at least "21:20 shnen you should really be talking about what mawile has over metang"

    Anyway, Mawile has many of the things said earlier over metang. Intimidate, better movepool, higher attack and resistance to ghost and dark.

    The thing keeping mawile from A is it's sub-par speed, and not brilliant special bulk bar resisted attacks. B fits Mawile very well, and I can't see why it is already in C rank!

    And that is my proposition for mawile!
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Thirdly, and (hopefully) finally is ampharos! He should definitely be A ranked in my opinion.

    Ampharos has very good special defense, and brilliant special attack. Its apparently crippling speed on face value actually gives it a slow volt switch, which lets your team gain a bunch of momentum and is a great way to get in a frail status sweeper like swellow with it's status then activated. The speed also doesn't hurt it in any way, really. It has more than enough bulk to get in incredibly powerful hits. It learns focus blast for some coverage, although most of the time you would just be using your hidden power grass is you have it. For this reason I would really say grab hidden power ice instead, for some incredibly good coverage on an incredibly powerful pokemon that is pretty darn bulky.

    A rank for sure, in my opinion.
  10. Axa

    Axa

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    403
    The problem with Ampharos is that it simply isn't bulky or fast enough - it can take special hits, but has no recovery and sluggish speed usually means it takes at least two hits (if it's switching in) before hitting the opponent. It can't take physical hits nearly as well, and isn't fast enough to take physical users out without Agility first. Because of that, usually Ampharos against an offensive team tends to require a pivot. It does very well against stallish opponents that can't Calm Mind, at least. I'd say it sticks in B-rank for similiar reasons to Arbok - it has serious power and/or utility, but doesn't have quite the stats it needs to be truly stellar.
  11. LivingRhino

    LivingRhino

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    80

    I think you're a bit fast with saying these mons should all go up to A or B rank.

    First of all, I don't think Wartortle should go up to B. The reasons why not to move it up to A are more important than why to move it up. The thing with Wartortle is it's still not capable of dealing good blows to either one of the new drops imo. You claim it's a wall against them, but knowing how I build my teams, there will surely be something in them that pairs well with Primeape and Scolipede, that will set up all over your Wartortle. It's not that rampaging as you think it is. I do agree that it might be a good companion for scolipede, but so is Seismitoad imo. It depends on who you ask, but I think Wartortle should stay where it is right now, as well as Charizard, who doesn't belong in A :)

    I don't have a real opinion about Mawile, I haven't used it that much, as I don't see it worthy of being in a team atm. I will use it when I am in need of it!

    Ampharos is a good mon, but you're a bit overreacting. It might be a good mon on a VolTurn team, as it's pretty hyped these days. Still, I think it's better off as a B mon. The speed will be like a crippled leg on your team, it will slow you down more than you think. After a mispredict on your side and not going for Voltswitch, or your opponent going into a ground type, you're screwed with Ampharos. There are better alternatives, although I have to say Ampharos isn't bad per se, it's just not worthy of A rank in my honest opinion.

    Your arguments are valid for some sets and some teams, but these pokemon still have their place where they are at right now.
  12. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,806
    I talked about exactly that in my description of ampharos. Ampharos isn't actually a fast special attacker that is meant to outspeed a bunch of stuff. It's physical defense is far from bad - 90 HP, 75 Defense - which means that you would do well to fail if an offensive pokemon switches in. Oftentimes the opponent will have at least one pokemon knocked out or seriously injured per match if you get ampharos in safely. Most of the time it would be even more. I probably sound like I am over-hyping ampharos, actually I do because rhino pointed it out, but for good reason in my opinion. I have used pretty much every viable electric type in the tier over time but at most points I see myself thinking "It's good, but not as good as ampharos..". It may have something to do with the fact that almost all of my teams have a status sweeper on them, especially now with swellow, meaning that ampharos' slow volt switch is actually very handy for me.

    Rhino; I am actually pretty good at VolTurn, I got into the play-style lately and seem to play it quite well. I find that the slow volt switch is a pretty handy tool I have. My team relies on probopass and ampharos to build up momentum, and weaken the opponent's team, and then have either a safely switched in swellow to get on a sweep against the weakened team or to take advantage of the momentum I have built up with my other VolTurners. Ampharos is essential on the team, and that is why the speed is far from a crippled leg. Ampharos is pretty unique in this tier, so I fail to see who out-classes it right now.
  13. Axa

    Axa

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    403
    Reflecting on it, I'd say that Ampharos would fit in the same tier as Eelektross as the two are pretty similiar; Elektross has an arguably better offensive movepool and Ampharos has better support. So based on that theory, I don't mind if Ampharos goes into A-tier; but I do think that Eelektross' Levitate and Giga Drain give it enough edge over Ampharos, as it makes getting in much safer and its Special Attack isn't too far behind Ampharos'.
  14. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,659
    Alright, I'm not too sure what Sawsbuck has any sort of business doing in A anymore. It can't keep up with the new threats and speedties at best (even then Scarf Jynx and Ape are popular), while losing to Weezing and also Foul Play Misdreavus if without Substitute (which sacrifices coverage). The only way it will still hold merit in the new metagame is in Sun, but fellow Sun sweeper Victreebel has more potential to wreck due to Fire-type Weather Ball and the ability to attack from both ends of the spectrum (with Growth!). Victreebel pretty much needs Sun to function and wasn't as reliant on it as Sawsbuck, but now that both have fallen into the same category of pokes that can brutalize opponents under Sun-which has massive potential in this faster, frailer and Fire-weak metagame (applies only for Victreebel), I think both Sawsbuck and Victreebel should be B-Rank.
  15. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,806
    Punchshroom, I'm going to have to disagree with you there, I will address only sawsbuck, but many of my points will probably relate to victreebel too.

    Sun is a POTENT team choice right now. Right now it's been the most viable in NU than it has my whole time here on smogon (900 posts in 5 months! :d) thanks to the fire-weakness of the meta-game.
    Sawsbuck has great coverage in this meta-game, it still has some great speed in 95 and still has monstrous attack. In sun the speed is doubled to base 190 so this basically means that it will out-speed anything on your opponent's team without a scarf! Now Sawsbuck still does great out-side of sun. It is potent, dangerous, has plenty of offensive presence... the list could go on for a while. In my opinion, Sawsbuck should stay in A rank.

    On another note, Victreebel should also stay in A rank, again given the fact that sun is potent (etc.) and that it is kinda dangerous outside of it. Not as much as sawsbuck, so if anything was going to drop to B I think it would be Victreebel.

    Looking at the A rank though, I seriously see nothing that needs to drop for now! Great listing, NU!
  16. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,659
    You do realize Victreebel is C-Rank right?

    I'm aware Sun is very dangerous right now, but part of what deters me to put them in A-Rank is their reliance on Sun. Sawsbuck did not have this issue as 95 base speed was pretty good back then, but now it wants Sun to avoid speedtying or outsped. Mind you, Sawsbuck can still do work, but it's not as good as.it was before. It doesn't really excel that much in wallbreaking either what with only 100 base Attack, Grass STAB that isn't strong enough and a forgotten face in Weezing.

    Will post more on Victreebel later.
  17. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,806
    Oops. Well, I did say if a pokemon was going to drop it would be victreebel... (victreebel for B I can agree with then).

    Sawsbuck, while a little more reliable on sun that it was last meta-game, still isn't that reliant on it, really. As I said before, 95 speed still is far from bad, it still outs-speeds plenty of stuff and is definitely A rank worthy.

    Also any more opinoins on mawile for B, wartortle for B or ampharos for A? Although two people already agree on that.
  18. sickweare

    sickweare

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    I disagree with Wartortle for B. It is good at spinning, but at the same time, what else does it contribute? It takes away from momentum of any team except maybe stall, but why use Wartortle then? It's good at spinning and I believe that's what guarantees it a C-rank, because it is the best defensive spinner in the tier. Other than that its reliance on eviolite and relative dead-weight in battle when it's not doing what it is supposed to (people have tried to wall Zard with Wartortle before in my experience, don't be like them). So yeah, I think Wartortle should stay C-rank.

    I don't have anything to say about Mawile, as I've never used it.
  19. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Social Media Chief

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    7,070
    you realize this isn't how it works, right? the actual stat is doubled not the base stat.

    No, no, and no comment.

    Mawile is slow, weak without a boost, and even with that nice mono-Steel type, doesn't use its resists well (it gets 2hko'd by LO Jynx Ice Beam after SR I think). There are a lot of Fighting-type moves out there right now, and even with Intimidate it still gets easily 2hko'd by most of them.

    Wartortle has a lot of the same problems as it always has: it's a huge momentum sap and it's weak. Jynx uses it as a free opportunity to set up. It has no recovery, and it's quite susceptible to status. I think C-rank is the best place for it.

    Amphy is pretty ok but I don't think it's A-rank. I've only tried defensive so far though, and I wanna try Agility before I decide.
  20. FortressDoor

    FortressDoor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    I think Butterfree should be moved down to D Rank. It simply isn't all that good anymore.

    And I also think Probopass should be moved up to A, but I will write more on that later
  21. Infernis

    Infernis

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    768
    Probopass has been very good on the teams I've fought, but I haven't used it enough myself to argue one way or the other.

    As for Chlorophyll, I've been told that doubling the speed stat is roughly equivalent to doubling the base speed stat and adding 50. So Sawsbuck would go from 95 to base 240-ish. That's a few points off, if you do the actual calc, but it's pretty similar. Ninjask can still outrun it after a single speed boost and KO with X-scissor, so... no big deal for many of teams. :naughty:
  22. Dell

    Dell Winter Hibernation of the Yarnasauruses
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    528
    I ask that you please do not go out on your way and arbitrarily make suggestions of specific Pokemon and rankings to place them if you're not going to back your points up without sufficient evidence and a lot of basis towards your view of those Pokemon in the current state of the metagame, otherwise you will not be able spark up any kind of discussion and either going to get largely disapproved or simply ignored. A lesson for everyone reading this, really.
  23. FortressDoor

    FortressDoor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    For Butterfree, its low defenses, and low speed, makes running Butterfree more of a hassle than everything. Most every team will be carrying something faster than it, even with a Quiver Dance, and simply kills it. If I want to sleep something, I would use Jynx, who is faster and actually packs a punch. And with Misdreavus and Weezing being everywhere, I am seeing more Lum Berries around, which Butterfree does not like at all.

    Probopass's is an amazaing offensive pivot in this meta. Due to its resistances, Probopass can set up rocks easily, and and Volt Switch out into one of NU's fast, frail threats, like Jynx, Scholipede, Primeape, and Swellow, getting them in safely. In fact, Swellow can even jump in on ground attacks aimed at Probopass for free, and Scholipede can take the fighting attacks. From there, they can set up subs, boost their stats, or simply spam their powerful attacks.
  24. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,349
    butterfree has an interesting niche in the metagame as one of the most reliable pokemon at preventing stealth rocks from being set up. it outpaces most ground and rock types and can disable them with a 97.5% accurate sleep powder before they can make a move, assuming that they're not holding the rare lum berry. anyone who has faced lead butterfree will agree that it is extremely annoying and effective at spreading status as long as the opposing team doesn't carry a pokemon with sap sipper. additionally, butterfree can abuse tinted lens and quiver dance to sweep with an offensive set, being able to set up easily as long as you can hit one or two sleep powders. it is generally really hard to stop the sweeping set without priority since it can outspeed and plow through basically everything with bug buzz after a few boosts.

    sure it may be frail, but sleep powder makes up for it as it allows butterfree to avoid most hits directed at it. base 70 speed is faster than every wall in the tier when fully invested so it's not as slow as you're making it out to be. it may not be the most amazing thing out there but i think it is solidly c rank.
  25. FortressDoor

    FortressDoor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    But Butterfree can only have one ability, which means, for the Quiver Dance set, it has a 25 % chance of missing, and then being promptly OHKO'ed. Sure it can outspeed walls, but Butterfree is revenge killed quite easily, as its bulk is really not good, though its Special Bulk is decent on the special side after a boost. And Lum Berry is likely going to become a lot more common, due to WoW being more common, with the rise of Missy and Weezing. And Choice Scarf Primeape being on every single damn team doesn't help Butterfree at all.

    Its Compound Sleep Powder set is good, but it can only put one thing to sleep. Carrying Stun Spore does increase its usefulness, though, but Primeape commonly carries Vital Spirit (though I use Defiant), which also does not help Butterfree
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)