Official "I want to edit an analysis" thread (read first post)

[chaos]

Yeah, post edits to analyses in any generation here.

However, please make sure that you know what you're doing. If you're new to competitive battling or just not any good at it and you post some set that won't be of any use, we won't implement it. Your post will just be deleted.

Please don't make new Pokemon analyses - all have been done already, even if they don't appear on the dex page.

IF YOU NOTICE AN ERROR IN WHAT SOMEONE WANTS TO EDIT IN, PM THAT PERSON SO HE CAN EDIT HIS POST. GIVES YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS AS WELL. OR DO IT OVER NETBATTLE OR MIRC OR WHATEVER AND NOT IN THIS THREAD. THIS THREAD IS ONLY FOR EDITS. WHETHER SOMETHING SHOULD BE ADDED OR NOT WILL BE JUDGED BY THE SITE STAFF.

If something is deleted from here without any change in the guide, leave it. It's apparently been declined. If you're absofuckinglutely sure about that it should be added, PM someone of the site staff (with the long flame badge), preferably someone who is active, and sort it out. DO NOT REPOST IT.

 

[khor]

quite possibly more tldr than obi's post

Typed this up some time ago, but couldn't post it because my computer died. Anyway, I *think* nobody's finished what Mekkah set out to do in the Magic Numbers Guide, seeing how the analysis posted on the main site doesn't have what Mekkah's supposed to be "working on" - no offence dude.

STAB Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Surf on Snorlax

One of the staples of RS play, Snorlax appears on every other team out there. The preferred method of dealing with it is of course Focus Punch, but perhaps it might be switching in on your Raikou that’s already got 2 CMs. In these cases, you can either switch out, or risk Raikou by picking up another CM and going for the 2HKO. If you choose the latter, then this part is just for you.

When calculating special attacks (even while using STAB 95 base power attacks) against Snorlax, it’s near impossible to 2/3HKO it without some other boost. I will show the required Special attack needed to reach a particular figure, along with the necessary number of boosts.

Here I will assume that the move in question is either not affected by Thick Fat, or that Snorlax simply does not have it. For this example, Snorlax will have 501 HP and 330 SpDef, which should be more than what most people use, but just to be on the safe side anyway.

301 SpAtk is required to 3HKO the above Snorlax with a 2-stage boost
241 SpAtk (offensive Suicunes :/) will 3HKO the above Snorlax with a 3-stage attack boost

Occasionally though, you may find yourself using a special attacking move which has its power cut in half by Snorlax’s preferred trait – Thick Fat. In which case, you’ll need to have a doubled attack stat (highly unlikely), or perhaps double the amount of CMs. Just to be certain though:

405 SpAtk will 3HKO said Snorlax with a 4-stage boost
348 SpAtk will 3HKO with a 5-stage attack boost
With maxed out attack boosts, you need a *mere* 304 SpAtk to 3HKO Snorlax.

Bottom line – consider yourself very very unfortunate if you find yourself facing a Snorlax and your most powerful move is a STAB Flamethrower/Ice Beam.

What this means is that you shouldn’t even try to 2HKO Thick Fat Snorlax with a special attack if you’re using Flamethrower/Ice Beam. The figures below will revert to the assumptions that Snorlax does not have Thick Fat, or that the move is not resisted by Thick Fat.

403 SpAtk will 2HKO said Laxen after 2-stage attack boosts
322 SpAtk will 2HKO after 3-stage attack boosts
With a fourth Calm Mind, 269 SpAtk can 2HKO when the above conditions are met.

With the appropriate number of Calm Minds as mentioned, the SpAtk values above are also capable of 2HKOing Snorlax with a single CH, which happens more often than not on NB anyway.

Or if you’re unable to reach those figures for the 2HKO, you could pray for the gods to be nice to you and bet on a 50% chance to 2HKO Snorlax.

371 SpAtk also has the same potential after 2 Calm Minds
297 SpAtk does the same thing as well, but you need a third Calm Mind
Failing that, 247 SpAtk will tide you over, but it requires 4-stage attack boosts

As with the set of numbers above this set, a CH will give you the OHKO, but this only occurs 50% of the time, even if you do succeed in CH-ing the fat bastard.

Finally, we attempt to 2HKO this special sponging monstrosity even while Leftovers is working to restore its health.

342 SpAtk will 2HKO Lefties Snorlax with the aid of 3 CMs
285 SpAtk does the same amount of damage after 4 CMs
244 SpAtk will 2HKO with 5 CMs

Reasonable figures (haha they better be after all those Calm Minds), but if you find yourself falling just shy, then perhaps you could look to good old 50% chance to help you 2HKO.

315 SpAtk is all you need if you already have 3 Calm Minds under your belt
262 works fine with a fourth CM
And with a fifth CM, you need but 225 SpAtk to 2HKO

HP Grass/Leaf Blade on Swampert

Yet another one of those pokes that is extremely durable, and can easily take damage while it’s Cursing up to hit you with boosted STAB Earthquake. The most common way of handling it is abusing its 4x Grass weak, and even now it isn’t uncommon to find a Pokemon carrying a random HP Grass to dent Swampert very badly. As Leaf Blade has the same power as HP Grass, it’s also included in this section, even if only Sceptile learns it. We’ll look at what numbers you need for these endeavors.

Swampert has above average Special Defense, and for this example, we will assume that it has max (404) HP, and 300 SpDef to be on the safe side.

First, we’ll start off with totally unboosted HP Grass.

269 SpAtk will deal enough damage to 2HKO Swampert 50% of the time if you can remove its Leftovers (or with a CH)
293 SpAtk will 2HKO Swampert, again with the condition that Leftovers are removed
287 SpAtk can 2HKO Leftovers Swampert 50% of the time
313 SpAtk will 2HKO Swampert guaranteed, Leftovers or not
With STAB, you need 205 SpAtk to 2HKO Leftovers Swampert guaranteed.

So you will need a Pokemon with somewhat above average special attack just to 2HKO Swampert. And if you thought those numbers were somewhat high, just wait for these next OHKO requirements. (Don’t try to do this without any attack boosts by the way.)

With a 1-stage attack boost (STAB, CM etc.) 394 SpAtk will OHKO Swampert
If that’s a little too high, 293 SpAtk will OHKO, but you need 2-stage attack boosts.
And if you’re a Grass type that’s gotten some other one stage boost (Overgrow/Growth/Petaya Berry), 259 SpAtk will grant the OHKO on Swampert, so it’s obviously foolish to switch Swampert into said Grass types.

Rock Slide on Salamence

Another one of the mega-standards on almost every team out there, Salamence is a reliable switch into physical attacks owing to its decent base defense, resistance to Fighting/Ground/Bug attacks and most importantly, Intimidate. When predicted though, Salamence’s weakness to Rock Slide becomes glaringly obvious, and naturally you’ll want to be able to deal enough damage to exploit that weakness.

For this example, I will be calculating based purely off Dragon Dance Salamence, e.g. 396 HP/196 Def, and with Leftovers factored into every example. Because Intimidate really complicates calculations, I’ve listed down the likely stages of attack your Pokemon might be at, so read whichever one pertains to you the most. I apologize if this seems pretty messed up, but it’s the best layout I could think of :/

x0.66 Attack – You have no sort of attack boosts at all, and are Intimidated.
x1 Attack – You are either immune to Intimidate but have no attack boosts, or you have a 1-stage attack boost but are affected by Intimidate.
x1.5 Attack – You are either immune to Intimidate and have a 1-stage attack boost, or you get a 2-stage attack boost which is cut to 1 by Intimidate
x2 Attack – You are immune to Intimidate, and get a Swords Dance. Either that, or you get STAB plus a 2-stage boost, but are affected by Intimidate.
x2.25 Attack – Immunity to Intimidate + STAB + 1-stage attack boost; otherwise, it’s STAB + 2-stage attack boost cut down to 1 by Intimidate

The calculations were pretty complicated, owing to the Intimidate factor, but here they are at last! Do note that all the figures below have already taken into consideration the appropriate attack boosts/debuffs, and so if you’re using the correct category of numbers, you shouldn’t need to modify them further.

x0.66 Attack – You have no sort of attack boosts at all, and are Intimidated. (Unboosted Blaziken)
372 Attack is required for the 3HKO on Salamence (yes that’s right)

x1 Attack – You are either immune to Intimidate but have no attack boosts, or you have a 1-stage attack boost but are affected by Intimidate. (CB Heracross; Regirock)
248 Attack for guaranteed 3HKO on Salamence
332 Attack will 2HKO Salamence if Leftovers has been negated (critical hits will OHKO)
353 Attack gives the guaranteed 2HKO on Salamence

x1.5 Attack – You are either immune to Intimidate and have a 1-stage attack boost, or you get a 2-stage attack boost which is cut to 1 by Intimidate (CB Metagross; SD Blaziken)
220 Attack gives the 2HKO, but Leftovers must be negated for it to work
233 Attack is a guaranteed 2HKO on Salamence
408 Attack has a 50% chance of OHKOing
444 Attack is a guaranteed OHKO

x2 Attack – You are immune to Intimidate, and get a Swords Dance. Either that, or you get STAB plus a 2-stage boost, but are affected by Intimidate. (Pinsir; Armaldo)
308 Attack has a 50% chance of scoring the one hit kill on Salamence
335 Attack is a guaranteed OHKO

x2.25 Attack – Immunity to Intimidate + STAB + 1-stage attack boost; otherwise, it’s STAB + 2-stage attack boost cut down to 1 by Intimidate (Curse Regirock; SD Rhydon)
270 Attack will OHKO on average
294 Attack will OHKO Salamence guaranteed

If your head is spinning by now, here’s a quick refresher of what 1-stage boosts are – maybe you’ll feel less giddy after this. Dragon Dance, Bulk Up, Choice Band and STAB are all examples of 1-stage attack boosts.

I apologize for not really taking the time to look through the forums carefully to see if anybody's posted this, as I'm kinda short on time now, so if anybody's already done this, do delete this post.

edit: fixed up some stuff

 

[obi]

That's all good, except the Salamence part. Intimidate lowers attack to 2/3, not 3/4. Also, you have STAB and a +1 attack boost twice. The one under x2 attack is the one in error, it is x2.25, as you said below that.

 

[khor]

It'd really help if you'd quote exactly what I did wrong and mention how to correct them, as I'm kinda confused as to what you're talking about :[ I get the x0.66 part about Intimidate on the first set of numbers, but other than that I'm lost.

Will make changes later - told you that this needed to be checked for errors, Mekkah X)

 

[obi]

tl;dr

Mewtwo's set #1 should have Psychic as a secondary option at best, not a requirement. Sure, it gets STAB, but that's about all it does. Seriously, what is Psychic going to hit harder in ubers than the combination of Thunderbolt and Ice Beam? Blissey is about it, which beats non-taunt/101 HP sub Mewtwo's, anyway.

A 101 HP subber is played totally differently from two attacks CM recover, so that they probably shouldn't be the same set. It should be split into two sections, one with Calm Mind, Recover, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, the other with Calm Mind, Recover, Substitute, Psychic/Ice Beam (Psychic for STAB, since it's your only attack, Ice Beam to hit nearly all physical attackers super effective, except Metagross, which is still hit harder by Ice Beam than Psychic, since Calm Mind protects you from special attackers). Secondary options for that set would be Thunderbolt+Ice Beam (only use together with two attacks imo) over Psychic and Recover.



Set #2 should mention that Tyranitar is rare in ubers, and Blissey isn't as common as one would think, either.


Set #4 should have Ice Beam as another option over Psychic, both are good, for reasons I said in the 101 HP subber thing... Ice Beam hits the physical attackers--Groudon, Rayquaza, Lugia, Deoxys-F, and Metagross--Harder than Psychic, while CM protects Mewtwo from special attackers like Kyogre. It's not as biased in favor of Ice Beam as with WW Lugia, though, because Mewtwo can't take Kyogre surfs, for example, nearly as easily, but if it gets in a CM or two with Recover, it might work. Ice Beam is also nice for not having any immunities, but it's not like dark types are that common.







Lati@s:

Dragon is quite possibly the best attacking type... if you're only using one type of attack. On the multi type Lati@s--those with Thunder(bolt) and/or Ice Beam--Dragon Claw is pointless. The only Pokemon Dragon Claw will hit harder than the combination of Thunderbolt and Ice Beam are Pokemon neither Thunderbolt nor Ice Beam hits super effectively (but not Steelix, Scizor, and other dragon resisters), and other Lati@s. Oh, and Bagon! Lati@s without Safeguard, Substitute, or predicted Roars with Spikes will have real difficulties taking on Blissey, anyway, unless you don't care about being statused, which can seriously hurt this dragon. Dragon Claw can also help with Mewtwo or something, I guess, but I'd prefer HP Dark and Thunderbolt/Ice Beam, probably... Or something.

Under opinion, it should be mentioned that almost all Groudon do carry HP Bug now, due to Lati@s and Exeggutor.




Groudon:

For set 1, put HP Bug as the fourth option, and all the fire moves as secondary. Eruption sucks. Flamethrower does not OHKO Skarmory. Adamant Fire Blast has a 58% KO rate. Overheat has 100% OHKO rate, and 5% more accuracy. You'll only be using it once, really, so that would be the primary choice if you want a fire move. Liechi shouldn't be an option, as Groudon is one of the slowest Pokemon used in ubers. Salac or Leftovers are the only good choices imo. Maybe Lum Berry or something, but it's immune to paralysis, and the common sleepers beat it, anyway.

My favorite CB spread:
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Especially if it's a starter Groudon. The lower speed allows you to have your weather go after Kyogre's so it's sunny. This allows you to switch to anything from Exeggutor to Lugia to Mewtwo and not worry about surf. It also survives max special attack Modest Kyogre Water Spout in the sun, and OHKOs Kyogre without HP or defense fully 3/4 of the time. In fact, Kyogre needs to devote 186 HP EVs to survive (or 116 defense EVs) for sure. I'd prefer to give it ~20% damage before attempting this, though, just in case.




Kyogre:

Water Spout does not work with Calm Mind, Rest, or in general, really. Kyogre is slow. You take hits as you CM up, and take hits on a rest. This means that Water Spout won't do the maximum possible damage. If it's used at all, it's for hit-and-run tactics, and in conjunction with Hydro Pump/Surf for when you're down on HP. A similar spread to the above Groudon spread could work on Kyogre as well, for the same reasons.




Lugia:

The whirlwind Lugia deserves its own set. Psychic isn't that good on it, either. My favorite Lugia set is CM, Recover, WW, Ice Beam, for reasons mentioned under Mewtwo. This easily doubles in power if paired with Deoxys-L with max Defense+HP, or Skarmory, as it provides both a physical tank and spikes, which are very important.

The speed it needs is 307 minimum, not 309, if you want to beat Kyogre/Groudon. I've used slow Lugia, though, too. This has the benefit of not caring about paralysis, since the way I play my Lugia always gets it paralyzed. In fact, paralysis can help it, as it suddenly becomes an amazing Exeggutor counter, since it cannot be put to sleep and resists Solar Beam+Psychic.

The EVs used for that damage calculation should be included. Uber Zapdos would use Thunder, not Thunderbolt, as well, so the first calculation isn't that important imo.

Metagross is an amazing counter to almost all Lugia sets, since one Meteor Mash attack raise on a CB Gross means GG Lugia, while the best Lugia can hope for is a predicted CB EQ, which isn't even a 2HKO IIRC.




More to come on the rest of the ubers later.

 

[Vulcan Fury]

Uh, I dunno if any of this was mentioned but I'm posting it here anyway lol.

Mewtwo

*Set2, the Subpuncher, should have Shadow Ball listed somewhere.Latias can just shrug of your hits and calm mind up all day, while shadow ball actually gives it something to be wary about.

*Set5, Taunt Mewtwo, can list Ice Beam over Psychic, since Psychic is walled by a considerable amount of pokemon, it does more to metagross than psychic, you might be stuck against kyogre though.

*For speed, if you are using a mixed set or a more defensive set, you can go for 320 speed instead of 351. Not many Latias go +speed I find, and this beats Modest max Latias and Rayquaza too.

Lugia

*Set2, AB EQ Recover WW or whatever, it says that Metagross cannot OHKO Lugia with Explosion if it isn't packing a Choice Band. I don't think this is correct, I have yet to survive an Explosion without Reflect up and my Lugia is more defense oriented than special defense.

*Metagross as a counter, it walls just about every set and even the ones with earthquake need a ton of attack to even have a shot at 2hkoing. Lugia's attack is above average, but nothing special.

Ho-oh

*Set2, Earthquake accomplishes nothing on the CB set. Sacred Fire already takes care of Metagross, and Ho-oh is an amazing switch-in to 90% of Metagross (they usually don't carry rock slide in the uber metagame). Recover or such can be mentioned over it.

*The same set above can also be done without the Choice Band, I've tried it myself and the extra lefties recovery on combat with non-thunder latias helps a damn lot.

Deoxys-F

*Was going to mention that Fire Punch set but I suppose someone already added it, just for the record, a full health Kyogre isn't the only thing that beats that set, Rayquaza and Ho-oh also wall it, to a much better extent than Kyogre.

Deoxys-L

*Set5, the Spiking set, should not have Ice Beam to counter Salamence, who isn't popular in uber anyway. The thing you might want ice beam on that set for is rayquaza. special Ray can't really do bullshit to this, and CB ones don't switch in because of the Knock Off threat. Which brings me to..

*Knock off mentioned on that set. I really don't see the need for Psychic or Thunderbolt aside Recover / Night shade / Spikes. Knock Off actually gives it something better to do than Spikes, switch, random Night Shade, heal.

Deoxys-E

*The set with Spikes Deoxys-E, doesn't really need Superpower and all that other bullshit imo. Spikes / Knock Off / Recover / Psychic does fine imo, the best utility thing in standard. Too bad it's not allowed in it.

NOTE
I don't know about this, but shouldn't this analysis be rewritten, since the guide was obviously for standard battling, and it has now been disallowed in standard?

Once again I didn't read the thread to see if any of this was mentioned, sorry if my post was useless and a waste of time but I had to post it anyway!

 

[freaktron]

I just noticed a few things about the guide on the uber metagame:

-There are no Pokemon in Tier 2. IIRC the Pokemon that should be there are Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh, Deoxys-L, and even Deoxys-E(it does have its ways in ubers, just ask skarm).

I'm rewriting a big part of the uber metagame thing, since people like Obi and skarm keep adding new possibilities. - Mekkah

-A section on Thunder vs Thunderbolt should be added. Thunder's capability because of Kyogre, or Thunderbolt for when it's sunny.

 

[gene]

For Groudon: swords dance set needs body slam or hp bug as a last move option as well. Fire moves on groudon just suck and will continue sucking until skarm usage starts going up.

For Kyogre: sleeptalk should be added. I used it before and it was a very nice counter to metagross and rayquaza and all those fuckers. (surf/ice beam/sleep talk/rest) Also i dont see the point of ever using max speed here. I am using modest max hp/defense and it is the most effective kyogre i've ever used.

For Latios: wherever theres thunderbolt, thunder should be added as an option. Thunder is superior to tbolt in ubers because a paralyzed uber is usually not going to do much. Plus, thunder does about 70% to lugia AND can paralyze meaning that lugia isnt going to be doing too much.

For Deoxys-F: Thunder is a great option and works extremely well. Psycho boost really shouldn't be on all of those sets considering it is walled by everything but groudon, kyogre, and rayquaza. For EVs, 395 speed is worthless, either go 399 or max with +speed.

For Lugia: never use psychic it is walled by everything. Really needs more ice beam/whirlwind/recover/calm mind instead of the psychic set.

For Ho-oh: A stalling Sub/Toxic/Flamethrower or Sacred Fire/Recover really does well on stallish teams.

For Mewtwo: The first set should be more like Sub/Ice beam/Thunder(bolt)/Calm mind. Just removing psychic from all those sets for ice beam/thunder(bolt) would do MUCH better.

Also seconding the need for a thunder vs thunderbolt section in the uber guide.

 

[Bugsy23]

Since I don't think it has been mentioned...

Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 44 Def / 8 Spd / 32 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Great staying power and just straight up owns Boah (4HKO with Crunch) and easily survives a 1 DDTar Earthquake. It can also switch in on Gengar without having to worry about Hypnosis/WoW destroying it. Who cares about Skarmory anyway?

 

[Jibaku]

This too:
Gardevoir (uhh...gender) @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: same as standard.
Modest nature
-Psychic
-Thief/Rest
-Will-o-Wisp/Hypnosis
-Thunderbolt/Calm Mind/Sleep Talk

Strategy:
The reflector and the absorber of status. Send this in to a Weezing's Will-o-Wisp and synchronize it back while stealing its leftovers or sleep talking away the burn. Obviously, use rest with Sleep Talk, and Thief with Lum Berry

 

[Kikuichimonji]

RBY Tauros has only has Mimic listed as an alternate, which at best is going to get him Sleep Powder. Leer is probably the best Tauros variation out there, it makes Hyper Beam a OHKO on Chansey and can assist in taking out Starmie. Thunderbolt can also be useful for Cloyster. Also, the Red/Blue front sprite isn't transparent. Cloyster and Articuno can both counter Tauros in their own ways and IMO should be listed under Counters.


IMO Psychic shouldn't be listed on the Starmie set, as it's definitely not standard, it should probably go under extra options. Hyper Beam could be added too.

On the Alakazam page, the phrase "aside from being a stab 90 power special attack running off the highest non-uber special in the game" should be embedded with dashes, not hyphens. At the end of the first paragraph, the plural form of CH should be "CHes" or "CH's." In the second sentence of the first paragraph, Alazakam's is possesive and should be spelled with an apostrophe. Also, in that paragraph, the word "Gamble" is capitalized unnecessarily, and is followed by two periods, which should be replaced with either a single period or ellipsis. Since "2HKO" is an acronym, it should be in all caps. Reflect is a move name and should be capitalized throughout the analysis. PP needs to be capitalized...and "as well as chansey who is more resistant to psychic than most psychics are" should be surrounded with dashes, not hyphens. Chansey should be capitalized, same goes for Psychic. In the second-to-last paragraph, there are multiple instances of two periods, which should either be single periods or ellipsis. In the last sentence of the last paragraph, "It" is unnecessarily capitalized. Under "other options," "realize" should be spelled with a "z." Three periods are used instead of ellipsis, which isn't as big an issue as the fact that they're followed by a space. Under "counters," Counter should be capitalized when used as a move name. Since paralysis isn't capitalized elsewhere, it shouldn't be here, either. Seismic Toss should be capitalized. The Smogondex needs to be taken down and replaced with a wiki.

On Gengar's page, the moveset explanation contains an instances of capitalized paralysis, and there are several places where forms of Explosion aren't capitalized, same goes for "opinion." "Any" is unnecessarily capitalized under "counters." Night Shade should probably be listed under "other options."

IIRC Fish only did Surf Snorlax.

If the only Cloyster set listed in the Smogondex is one that includes both Explosion and Hyper Beam, the phrase "rarely does your opponent suspect Hyper Beam AND Explosion on Cloyster, so the surprise factor can work in here in multiple ways" is really out of place. IMO JMC's Cloyster set (Ice BeamSubstituteRestExplosion) should be listed, it's good at freezing stuff&stuff.

Somewhere on the Raichu page it should be mentioned that you MUST above all protect him from paralysis, a Raichu that is paralyzed is a Raichu that is slower than Golem and Rhydon, and a Raichu that is slower than Golem and Rhydon is a Raichu that is dead, except in rare instances that it's merely dead weight on your team.

I love how the standard Zapdos set has Agility and Thunder listed, but Reflect and Light Screen only made "extra options."

ElectrodeThunder WaveThunderboltReflectLight Screen is decent, once you've taken out the opposing Ground type just tank up, paralyze the board, and go to town.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

RBY Aerodactyl should probably have Fire Blast over Supersonic as the standard. The most prolific RBY Aerodactyl on Smogon, Kikuichimonji, has found that a >25% chance of burning Rhydon or Golem and the ability to actually touch Gengar tend to be more advantageous than a 55% chance of confusion, resulting in a 50% chance of their next attack failing, which equates to about 2% more than Fire Blast's chances of Burning, and that's assuming they stay in. The fact that Fire Blast can potentially burn Starmie or Chansey is hardly relevant, you obviously shouldn't be spamming it until you've confirmed that your opponent is going to use Rock as their primary method of countering Aerodactyl. An overwhelming majority of Aerodactyl users have found Fire Blast to be more effective: 100% of serious RBY Aerodactyl users responded positively. (If you are an RBYer who uses Aerodactyl on at least a semi-regular basis and I didn't include you in that poll, please state so.) Also, in the common Aerodactyl/Aerodactyl match-ups that are incredibly common in RBY, the one able to burn first would probably land on top.

Under "opinion," there's a space before the comma after Golem in the last sentence. Also, in the second sentence of that paragraph, the verb "what's" is a contraction, and should contain an apostrophe.

It should probably be noted that despite his typing, Aerodactyl has really awful defense(s) and isn't that great at taking Hyper Beam and may die unexpectedly to Explosion. He's basically worse than Cloyster at taking normal hits. Also, when playing Aerodactyl, it is incredibly vital to keep him far away from paralysis; once you're paralyzed you're only going to be good for finishing off paralyzed Chansey with Hyper Beam. Aerodactyl's defenses will allow him to take non-Surf Snorlax hits, and that's about it. Don't be fooling yourself into thinking that Aerodactyl will be able to do its job while paralyzed.




Flamethrower shouldn't even be listed as an option for RBY Charizard, the 7 point base damage average advantage as well as the nearly tripled chance of Burn makes Flamethrower essentially useless. It should also probably be noted that Body Slam is usually just used for paralyzing Starmie; in most situations Earthquake is better anyway when you're trying to sweep after Swords Dance and Hyper Beam just gives you more sweeping potential.



IMO Raichu should be listed as a Slowbro counter, it has a ~20% CH ratio on par with Zapdos's and is definitely better than, say, Chansey at landing a CH, the only problem being that Slowbro will probably fry you earlier than Chansey. Same goes for Jolteon, moreso because of the higher CH rate, but less so because it's less cool than Raichu.



The way Chansey's set is set up, it makes Thunderbolt look like a staple. I've more often than not found the ability to paralyze more important than fully countering Starmie, but really it needs to be set up in some way as to distinguish that Thunderbolt is a disposible slot. It needs to communicate that Ice Beam and Softboiled are necessary and that the other four moves can be used interchangably, baring Sing/Thunder Wave combinations. Oh, and the blurb under opinion needs to be punctuated.


I've only ever seriously used Growth Tangela, but I'm pretty sure Swords Dance Tangela should have it's own set, probably looking something like this:

Swords Dance
Sleep Powder/Stun Spore
Body Slam/Bind
Hyper Beam

Basically indicate that Stun Spore is to be used in conjunction with Bind.


Hyper Beam Venusaur is something that I've tried using, and it works pretty well. The thing is, strategically you have to play it as if you're using the standard Venusaur, so in the late game after you've taken out Gengar and cripped their Rock type to the point where it can be taken out by a SD'd HB, you're free to set up without Rhydon immediately popping up in your face. Since Hyper Beam is already noted under "other options," it would probably just be easiest to add that there and note that it would be used over Razor Leaf.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

It should be noted on the RBY Kangaskhan page that the only reason you'd be using it over Tauros in standard is Surf, because Tauros is superior in every other regard (except HP, and that's hardly relevant). It should also be mentioned that his awful special stat doesn't allow him to take on Starmie the same way Tauros can. Same goes for Alakazam, and even Chansey to a lesser extent.

On the Weezing RBY page, Fire Blast is mentioned in the moveset explanation, but is only under other options. Fire Blast should probably be added to the standard set over Haze, IMO Haze is a really awful move, especially if your opponent has frozen or sleeping Pokemon to take advantage of it, or a paralyzed Starmie or something, and it really has no use, whereas Fire Blast can burn Golem and Rhydon and hit Exeggutor.


I find it funny that all of the RBY Onix counters listed are Standard. Blastoise, Vileplume, Tangela and Vaporeon shut it down quite effectively, and while Tentacruel can't switch into Earthquake it can OHKO Onix. Same goes for Seadra. Oh, and watch out for Mega Drain on Butterfree and Beedrill.

 

[Raikou21]

Articuno hasn't been updated with XD moves like Heal Bell and Haze.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

First off, I would just like to say that I really hate the name of the "opinion" heading of the Pokemon analysises. These usually express the opinion of the author, and while most of us agree that Beedrill is pretty awful, there are those who will go out of their way to find some redeeming tidbit to insert. I don't think this is really appropriate, given that the entire 'dex has multiple edittors. Maybe the name of the heading could be changed to "Overall View" or just "Overall."




In the RBY UU article, I couldn't help but notice the sentence "They are not walled by Water pokemon either because they can Body Slam," which makes absolutely no sense. Also, in the Electabuzz analogy, the pronoun "I" is used several times.


In The Beginner's Guide to RBY, it states that "there ARE EV’s." Technically, this is not true; the EV system was preceded by a "Stat experience" system, whenever you killed something, instead of getting one or two points depending on what you killed, you simply recieved an amount of experience for each stat corrolating directly to base stats. The phrase "A team does NOT have to be comprised of six of these fifteen, but they commonly are, and will continue to be whether you like it or not J" needs to be editted. Also, following that and preceding the bulleted lists, the pronoun "I" is used.



In the article RBY differences, when explaining use of agility the pronoun "I" is used, this also occurs in the second-to-last sentence of the second paragraph under the heading for "Counter."


I'm pretty sure that Seismic Toss is usually standard on Hypno, and that double powders are fairly uncommon, or at least not nearly as common as Seismic Toss use.


I can't imagine why the RBY Onix analysis contains a reference to Steelix. Also, "At all" (which occurs twice) and "Which is going to be often as Onix barely has HP" are both sentence fragments. Also, it contains a reference to the physical appearence of Onix's sprite, I'm not sure how relevant this is to a strategy analysis.

Hyper Beam isn't listed as part of the set for Magneton, or under "other options," but is mentioned in the moveset analysis.


On the RBY Slowbro page, in the first sentence "you" is unnecessarily capitalized. Also, the first comma should probably be replaced with a colon, and the word "and" can be omitted. The prefix "Non" doesn't have to be capitalized in the third sentence of the second paragraph. Also, "ok" should be changed to either "OK" or "okay." In the third paragraph, the numeral 2 is used instead of the word "two," which I believe should be corrected. Also, under "opinion," the pronoun "I" is used. Also, I don't feel that calling it a "bad luck magnet" is really objective, as that sure wouldn't be there if Lesm were writing it.

The RBY Nidoking analysis in which contains first-person reference to the author. Same goes for Hitmonchan, whose page contains "1HKO" (which I believe should be changed to "OHKO."

Hitmonlee is described as "pretty neat," which I'm afraid isn't entirely objective.

According to the Smogondex, all Marowaks are male (including Cubone's mother), and suck. Also, the sarcastic jibe about his dramatic improvement in GSC due to the addition of a hold item doesn't allow complete objectivity.

On the Ditto page, Transform is a move name and should be capitalized

On Electabuzz: "Yeah, he is not one of my favorite Pokemon." I don't think any explanation is necessary; this needs to be changed.

 

[0_o]

Hitmonlee is described as "pretty neat," which I'm afraid isn't entirely objective.

I originally had "one cool mofo" but someone must have edited it out. "Pretty neat" somewhat contradicts with the next statement "too bad his movepool is bad and he is outclassed by Machamp"

So maybe someone could just edit it again and just write "pretty cool" instead.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

On the Advance Lanturn page, under "other options," "and" and "Substitute" need to be separated by a space. The description of Sleep Talk Lanturn contains self-reference, and not every individual on the planet considers Rest-talking to be "fun." It might not hurt to remove the explitive in the description of the first set. Oh, and I think Rest-talking Lanturn should have Thunder listed as an alternative to Thunderbolt. It really doesn't dull his use as a Milotic counter; given that you've got something that can freely switch into any kind of Milotic attack, allowing Milotic to possibly more freely switch into your Salamence's hits isn't as much of a hinderence as you'd think, and since Milotic is going to be switching out a lot anyway, the risk of paralyzing it is significantly lower. I mean, I'm pretty sure that I'm the first one to started using Resttalking Lanturn in full advance, and a good part of the time I carried Thunder. Under the EV's section, it might not be a bad idea to specify that you should have at least 401 HP, and at least 404 when using Substitute. Under counters, it should be noted that Flygon is only an effective counter when Lanturn lacks Ice Beam. And while I feel that Lanturn is pretty nifty, I'm afraid that describing him as "cool" isn't really entirely accurate, and the only circumstances under which he can actually prove "annoying" are when he can actually issue parafusion, which isn't his primary strength, in my opinoin.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Wobbuffet doesn't gain much more KO potential with more HP, besides, surviving the turn you Encore is more important given that the majority of the time you're just going to be handing off to a Belly Drummer or something to that effect.


I'm no expert, but I really don't see why the standard Ludicolo has Toxic listed and Seismic Toss absent. Breaking Substitutes is really more important than anything on a stallish set like that, and it really sucks when your special wall gets screwed by Raikou. I don't see Blissey running around with Ice Beam and Toxic, so I don't know why Ludicolo would be given nothing but a STAB for attacking, especially considering you aren't going to be investing many EVs in special attack. "Afraid" is spelled incorrectly. Ludicolo should _always_ have Swift Swim.

 

[Mekkah]

Just because it's in other options doesn't mean it's worse than the rest. And STAB Surf hurts other things Seismic Toss isn't doing squat to. Swift Swim is not a must on the staller set because if you're facing an opponent with Rain, it will usually have Speed EVs for about 200, while Ludicolo sits at 176-180. And if they switch, they won't switch to something that you can take out in 2 hits anyway.

moomoonerd posted in the wrong thread:

I found some very minor things with the EVs. These may be overly minute details.
Some EVs aren't snapped, and sometimes EVs aren't included.

- It's not a big deal, but complete newbies may like to see more specific EVs for CB Metagross or the mixed set.
- Tyranitar's EV section does not include CBtar, although I'm assuming it's the same as DDtar.
- In Ursaring's EVs, it is slightly more helpful to say "44 EVs in speed" or "157 speed" rather than "outspeed Weezing." That way, the reader doesn't have to look up Weezing.
- In Armaldo's other options, "Substitute and Earthquake" should be set off from the explanation with some punctuation mark.
- In Hariyama's EVs, it should be about 48 instead of about 50, but it's unimportant because of the word about.
- Donphan's EVs are very vague, but I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
- For some reason, "Other Options" for Muk is in all caps.
- Tauros' analysis should probably mention whether it should be Adamant or Jolly.

I'm going through standard pokemon and putting them in my box, so I'll probably find some more. Let me know if this information is useless though so I don't waste my time. =\

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Zapdos's EVs on the first set look kinda wack, I'm pretty sure that it should be:

80 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 176 / 0

Otherwise it's not clear which EVs go where. And that's assuming HP/atk/def/spd/sp.atk/sp.def, and I don't see that specified anywhere. On the site. At all. (Oh, yeah--the HP EVs need to be split too.



IMO Thunder should be listed as an option for Weezing, it's worked wonders for me, and I really don't see why you'd want Thunderbolt over it, this way you get to smack Gyarados, Suicune, and Milotic, and the chance of paralysis elsewhere, that way it's not completely useless after you've killed the threat. Oh, and I've also had the great experience of paralyzing Tyranitar after the Taunt--very cool when it works.

Same goes for Regice. Thunder isn't mentioned anywhere. It works over Thunderbolt and frees up the slot that you'd be using to Thunder Wave, and makes room for Psych Up or Counter. Ice BeamThunderRestPsyche Up could seriously have its own moveset, I could write an explanation of how it works, because it's actually more like Donphan than the standard Regice.


The only thing said about Imprison Dusclops is that it's good in 2vs2, and that's hardly relevant. What it can be useful for is use with Rest, to keep something from shrugging off Toxic after you've Mean Looked them. Then again, that's four moves that go together, and that could be it's own separtate set. The other set involving Imprison after Mean Look shuts down Dragon Dancers only carrying Hidden Power and Earthquake, which could be Tyranitar but also for sure shut down Gyarados. If those are going to be added as additional sets (or one with Imprison and Mean Look as staples), I could write brief descriptions, but given that I'm probably the only one on the planet to use them, I don't know if they're common enough to warrent listing. Then again, I think the same could be said of the second two Dusclop sets. I mean, who uses Calm Mind and Ice Beam? Or Curse?

 

[Delta]

Will-o-wisp deserves a mention on gengar´s set. It´s simply awesome to screw the occasional Dusclops/Metagross switch in, and burn is in a general a cool status to inflict against random stuff that doesn´t use rest

 

[moomoonerd]

Oh, heh. Sorry for posting in the wrong thread. :(

Well, I went through the dex a teeny bit again and Nidoking also has some unsnapped EVs.

- CB set should have 4 HP EVs rather than 6. Set #2 should have 168 special attack. Set #3 should have 64 attack.
- Perhaps Swellow's Endeavoring set should be a separate set, rather than in other options. It's not a huge deal though...
- IMO Dugtrio's analysis should include how many special def EVs are required to survive Raikou's HP Grass/Ice.

I will edit any more things I find.

--edit: Meganium's EV section is confusing, punctuation-wise. It should be more like:

204 Hp/102 Defense/96 Speed/72 Special Attack/36 Special Defense Bold Nature iff you plan to use Counter/Light screen/Hidden Power Grass. If you plan to use Reflect then switch the defenses and change the nature to Calm. If you plan to use a physical attack swap the Special Attack for Attack and use Impish for + Defense or Careful for + Special Defense.

--edit again: Oh ya, 102 defense should be 100 (snap).

 

[Raikou21]

IMO CBand Gyarados should be added:

Gyarados (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge/Thunder Wave/Hydro Pump
- Double-Edge/Thunder Wave/Hydro Pump

Outspeeds Adamant Heracross, Hidden Power [Flying]/Aerial Ace for STAB, Earthquake for Electrics, Double-Edge/HP Rock for Zapdos. 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd with Adamant can also work. Also Hydro Pump needs to have more mention on the physical sets.

 

[imperfectluck]

Substitute deserves more love on Breloom in general, and Skarmory isn't such a good counter for Breloom, while Heracross should be a Breloom counter. It should be noted that Dugtrio nowadays runs Aerial Ace, and not HP Flying to counter Breloom. Breloom also deserves to have a SubLeech set imo, Leech Seeding causes lots of switches for Focus Punch, and Breloom has the defense to pull off Subs that aren't broken by common Earthquake/Rock Slides with some defense EVs.

 

[moomoonerd]

Um, I found quite a few more Pokes with unsnapped EVs, but I didn't keep track. :(

Anyways, Porygon2's EVs are confusing. They should have a stat name with each number. I think P2 was one of the ones with unsnapped EVs, too.