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Official NBA 2013 - 2014 Season Thread
- Thread starter Gabe
- Start date
The amount of finals you win in a given amount of tries does not determine who is the best. You have to use your own ideas and context to decide that. That being said, anyone who ever thought Lebron was even close to on MJ's level is an idiot who never watched basketball seriously. The better than MJ argument was always shit, MJ was a ruthless player who could play either 100% perfect D or 100% perfect D while going 90% perfect on the other. Lebron benefits from friendlier offensive rules while having more size than MJ (size determines almost all of the best NBA players of all time - size is why Timmy D is a better player than Lebron). I would say Lebron is capable of something like 90% perfect O and 80% perfect D. These numbers are ridiculously generalizing but whatever.
Win shares is a legit statistic if you want it to be, not so much if not. Either way both Durant and Lebron check in with Dirk Nowitzki as their most similar player. Now I love Dirk more than anybody here besides darkie, but hopefully that gives everybody some type of reality check. You can construct whatever argument you want, but how many people consider Dirk Nowitzki a top 10 player? At the same time, this is just a one off statistic...Tim Duncan comes in closest to Julius Erving and Charles Barkley (and then KG and Dirk of course, who were always 95% of Duncan level during the same time span), so how do you compare Tim Duncan to Moses Malone, Hakeem, Shaq, etc? You just have to think it out for yourself. And then there is how talent and play do not always correspond - Shaq was definitely a more talented player than Duncan, but he was so unmotivated and all about the sizzle. Duncan was relentless and focused, and came back from fading (he faded pretty badly for about 4 years).
TL;DR MJ is so much better than Lebron that you can safely stop being friends with anyone who thinks MJ<Lebron or MJ=Lebron. If you think that Lebron>MJ or comes close to = MJ, I plead with you to stop watching sports since you do not understand anything about them.
Win shares is a legit statistic if you want it to be, not so much if not. Either way both Durant and Lebron check in with Dirk Nowitzki as their most similar player. Now I love Dirk more than anybody here besides darkie, but hopefully that gives everybody some type of reality check. You can construct whatever argument you want, but how many people consider Dirk Nowitzki a top 10 player? At the same time, this is just a one off statistic...Tim Duncan comes in closest to Julius Erving and Charles Barkley (and then KG and Dirk of course, who were always 95% of Duncan level during the same time span), so how do you compare Tim Duncan to Moses Malone, Hakeem, Shaq, etc? You just have to think it out for yourself. And then there is how talent and play do not always correspond - Shaq was definitely a more talented player than Duncan, but he was so unmotivated and all about the sizzle. Duncan was relentless and focused, and came back from fading (he faded pretty badly for about 4 years).
TL;DR MJ is so much better than Lebron that you can safely stop being friends with anyone who thinks MJ<Lebron or MJ=Lebron. If you think that Lebron>MJ or comes close to = MJ, I plead with you to stop watching sports since you do not understand anything about them.
LeBron is a very good player and all, but come on, if any of us in this forum who already play bball were blessed with his size and athletic ability we'd at the very least be role players in the NBA. He has the potential to be the best of all time but doesn't have the killer instinct for more than stretches
I don't know if I'd chalk it up to a lack of "killer instinct." Didn't he set an NBA record this season for most minutes played at his age? Then you have his four consecutive Finals appearances, plus all the carrying he did this year and when he was on the Cavs. You'd have to literally be inhuman to not be feeling any fatigue at this point.
As far as MJ vs Lebron, just look at this:
Nobody's catching up to the GOAT. Duncan's the most likely to match him in rings, but he sure as hell won't be MVP again.
Also, Lebron clearly fucked up by not wearing #22.
As far as MJ vs Lebron, just look at this:
Nobody's catching up to the GOAT. Duncan's the most likely to match him in rings, but he sure as hell won't be MVP again.
Also, Lebron clearly fucked up by not wearing #22.
I think that Lebron did not have a "killer instinct" in the Mavs series, and it stemmed from him waiting too long to develop post moves, to extend his game in other ways. He thought he could just autowin a title. He went out and shaped the fuck up.
What no one seems to understand is the joke that the Heat finals runs entails. They keep hyping 4 in a row HISTORIC OMG, but just think about it. The west had at least 5 killer teams a year, and the only way to match the Heat was with a killer big man or having similarly elite teams on both sides of the ball. Well the Bulls were the only similarly elite team on both sides of the ball, and that died with D-Rose (3/4 years). Howard was the only truly elite big man in that conference, and he was dead 1 playoffs and gone the next 2 (3/4 years). The Spurs "only" made 2 finals, the Thunder "only" made 1. Well, if the Heat played in the East, then Lebron would have only made 1-2 maximum - it could have even been 0 if shit just broke horribly wrong (face teams like Grizzlies round 1 round 2 in a row etc). The Pacers aka worse Grizzlies east almost beat the Heat last year, old dead as fuck KG almost beat them 3 years ago. And the Heat lucked their way to 1/2 rings after lucking into a conference of no threats.
Tim Duncan is a better player and better teammate than Lebron, Lebron is just a more talented athlete. Lebron kills himself on both sides of the floor, but in the end size is almost everything in the NBA (MJ and Bird aka better Lebron being the biggest exceptions to size ruling all). Just breaks my heart that more people cannot read into the difference, when a player earns a single ring it gives everyone license to just rank whoever they subjectively like the most the highest.
If Lebron keeps on throwing up crazy statistics, it matters a little. People still have to fucking adjust for era (MJ would have such an easier time on offense that he would become even more of a killer on defense in this era) and contextualize how fucking lucky the breaks the Heat got were. Maybe they still even make 4/4 finals in the East with Howard and a healthy D-Rose, who knows, but even then the Heat were getting to dodge Griffin, LMA, Dirk, Duncan, and recently Howard all season every season. The rest of the best bigs list besides Al Jefferson are all buried on shitty West teams, so they would pose no threat either way.
What no one seems to understand is the joke that the Heat finals runs entails. They keep hyping 4 in a row HISTORIC OMG, but just think about it. The west had at least 5 killer teams a year, and the only way to match the Heat was with a killer big man or having similarly elite teams on both sides of the ball. Well the Bulls were the only similarly elite team on both sides of the ball, and that died with D-Rose (3/4 years). Howard was the only truly elite big man in that conference, and he was dead 1 playoffs and gone the next 2 (3/4 years). The Spurs "only" made 2 finals, the Thunder "only" made 1. Well, if the Heat played in the East, then Lebron would have only made 1-2 maximum - it could have even been 0 if shit just broke horribly wrong (face teams like Grizzlies round 1 round 2 in a row etc). The Pacers aka worse Grizzlies east almost beat the Heat last year, old dead as fuck KG almost beat them 3 years ago. And the Heat lucked their way to 1/2 rings after lucking into a conference of no threats.
Tim Duncan is a better player and better teammate than Lebron, Lebron is just a more talented athlete. Lebron kills himself on both sides of the floor, but in the end size is almost everything in the NBA (MJ and Bird aka better Lebron being the biggest exceptions to size ruling all). Just breaks my heart that more people cannot read into the difference, when a player earns a single ring it gives everyone license to just rank whoever they subjectively like the most the highest.
If Lebron keeps on throwing up crazy statistics, it matters a little. People still have to fucking adjust for era (MJ would have such an easier time on offense that he would become even more of a killer on defense in this era) and contextualize how fucking lucky the breaks the Heat got were. Maybe they still even make 4/4 finals in the East with Howard and a healthy D-Rose, who knows, but even then the Heat were getting to dodge Griffin, LMA, Dirk, Duncan, and recently Howard all season every season. The rest of the best bigs list besides Al Jefferson are all buried on shitty West teams, so they would pose no threat either way.
After these Finals, I'm so glad the Lebron-MJ debate is over. What Jordan did is something that may never be done by any player ever again: 6 Finals MVPs, 6 championships, 6-0 in the Finals. Considering that number of rings and performances in the Finals is a big factor when determining a player's greatness, we simply can no longer consider putting Lebron in the same conversation as Jordan. With this loss, I personally would bump him down my imaginary Mount Rushmore of players and put him out of the top 5. I think at this moment in time it would be more fair to compare Lebron to Bird or Magic. Nobody's catching Jordan anytime soon.
My top 5, in no particular order:
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem
Duncan
Lebron's career is not even close to over though, so by the time he's done playing he could very well force himself into top 5 all time.
My top 5, in no particular order:
Jordan
Bird
Magic
Kareem
Duncan
Lebron's career is not even close to over though, so by the time he's done playing he could very well force himself into top 5 all time.
LeBron is more comparable to Magic, not MJ.
He might actually make it to the playoffs for the first time in his 6 year career!
Why is it disgusting, he's doing this for exactly one of two reasons. Either a) he, Wade, and Bosh ALL opt out of their contracts and resign with the Heat at slight discounts or b) he goes back to Cleveland to join the young talents Cavs team and raise his kids (including a newborn on the way) at home.
There is no way Lebron intends to take a pay cut with the recent front office decisions the Heat have made.
What is disgusting is how the NBA went from playing against the best competition to playing with the best competition. Especially in today's NBA landscape where the rules are tailored to the offense, it's a huge disadvantage to small market teams because they lack players with the skills and reputation to benefit from the way the game is called. Besides a very limited number of franchises that have been exceptionally crafty and somewhat lucky with draft selections in key years, the rest of the league just isn't competitive.
What is disgusting is how the NBA went from playing against the best competition to playing with the best competition. Especially in today's NBA landscape where the rules are tailored to the offense, it's a huge disadvantage to small market teams because they lack players with the skills and reputation to benefit from the way the game is called. Besides a very limited number of franchises that have been exceptionally crafty and somewhat lucky with draft selections in key years, the rest of the league just isn't competitive.
Handling what exactly? He opted out of his contract. That's literally all he's done so far. What else did you expect?
I expected an explanation.. Most of us are guessing, and that's disgusting especially for those very few true blood Heat fans. It's like a pathetic hostage drama. If it were KD or Kobe, we would know what's happening from day 1.
And worst of all, an awful Decision II interview is coming..
