1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Official Smogon University Simulator Statistics — July 2012

Discussion in 'BW Competitive Discussion' started by Antar, Aug 1, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    I don't play NU, but I know for a fact that Tyrogue, Spinda, and Delibird are way worse at spinning than Wartortle. Especially Delibird.
  2. Gold Geno

    Gold Geno

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    If i had to take my pick on which Theiran has the best chance at getting banned, it'd be Tornadus. Seriously, that thing is too fast for its own good. No Fighting Type is safe, and the only non-scarfed Pokemon to outspeed it are Meloetta-P (which requires an in-battle forme change that leaves it vulnerable for a turn) and Jolteon (which is too frail to take anything from it). Factor in Regenerator keeping it alive through Stealth Rock, or if SR is off the field making it impossible to take down in more than 1 or 2 hits, and you've got yourself an Uber Candidate

    Pocket EDIT: No discussion of bans
  3. Kiyo

    Kiyo

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    366
    Idk about that, Tornadus is definitely powerful but its not like it's not counterable and it definitely has its checks. For instance the Thundurus-T I've been using runs agility and outspeeds torn-t and ko's with t-bolt. It also OHKO's a huge chunk of the meta, hitting a max of 437 SpA is crazy. The metagame may be more centralized with tornadus t around, but its far from broken.
  4. Leader Fox

    Leader Fox

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    38
    Personally i would like for Excadrill to stay banned because now, more Rain Teams are more Dependent on The rain well at least from my view. Tyranitar Choice Banded Pursuit set really Hurts Politoeds when they are switching out and heck can Ko them with ease, plus with rocks Politoed can be facing some Serious Issues if that set do become Popular. 252 Atk Choice Band Tyranitar (+Atk) Pursuit vs 252 HP/252 Def Politoed (+Def) : 49.48% - 58.59% (2-3 hits to KO) that still does Some Decent damage and with Rocks Politoed will be draining its HP and another Pursuit would KO him. I'm still Debating on Excadrill, i mean i know he's probably not as Powerful as before but if he affects the meta game during the same way as before i will Personally get bored of using Gliscor as Breloom can't switch in repeatably. Idk about him i guess we can maybe test him. As for Garchomp he still to powerful unless we Have a Complex Ban or Something. I'm not that Pro of the Meta game but i do know of it and i will gladly be Corrected by someone if I'm wrong on a aspect.

    Pocket EDIT: No discussion on bans
  5. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,371
    Code:
    | 24   | Infernape          | 25587  |  7.649% | 15425  |  7.711% |
    Ok I really have to know: WHO STILL USES INFERNAPE?! For the past few months I've seen it hover around 7% but I have never seen it and Infernape it has been one of the most consistently lackluster Pokemon for everytime I have used it. Seriously to put in perpective on how much it is used, it used more than Keldeo and Landorus-T. IMO based on its usage, it has to be one of the most overrated Pokemon of all time. It can't be sun teams, since based on the statistics Infernape would have to be used on almost every sun team team for it to be that high (ninetales hits 8%).

    But Pillsbury, why are you such an Infernape Hat3R? Well to start off it is pretty much shut down by any decent rain team which are very popular right now. Sand also makes its life hell by making it die to residual damage really quickly. Second its job main job of breaking down with mixed attacks, especially defensive teams, just never happens. You got Latias, Slowbro, Tentacruel, and Jellicent which have been the really popular choices for defensive teams for the past year (and are still now). This isn't also considering MS Dragonite, Latios, and (not as good as a counter) Gyarados on more offensive teams. IMO both Keldeo and Terrakion do its job of breaking up defensive cores much better. Both have raw power above Infernape most importantly and a little bulk. Keldeo has the ability to go +1 in both attack (through secret sword) and special attack with Calm Mind and an arguably better secondary STAB in Water, which massacres sand teams and gets the boost from rain. Meanwhile, Terrakion has beastly STAB combination which makes everything a 50/50 chance on what is going to die with CC/SE (basically doesn't even need coverage) while being immune to SS. Choice Scarf Terrakion also has an amazing amount things it can revenge, as many as or even more than Infernape's choice scarf set. Sure Infernape has great coverage, but doesn't have the power to back it up and its STAB is (IMO) worse than both Terrakion's and Keldeo.
  6. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,461
    Scarf Infernape is an excellent revenge killer and an incredible tool against Sun teams, outspeeding or resisting the attacks of most Chlorophyll users. U-Turn also gives it an edge over Terrakion as a Scarfer, giving it the fastest U-Turn commonly seen in OU. When I use it, it's mostly to patch holes in my team - I'm not trying to sweep with it or anything...

    I've never used any other Infernape set though.
  7. Antar

    Antar Self-anointed Czar of LC UU
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Official Data Miner

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,168
    I am BY NO MEANS skilled at OU, but I've had decent success with LO Infernape with Overheat, CC, Stone Edge and U-Turn. I used to run Banded (FB instead of Overheat), but the problem there is that Heatran is everywhere, which means you've got to be super careful about locking yourself into Overheat, Gliscor walls the shit out of Close Combat, and Stone Miss is what it is.

    LO Infernape allows one to correct mistakes one makes in prediction. The Heatran that switched into my expected fire-type move has better be scarfed (they're never scarfed anymore), or I'll just KO on the next turn with Close Combat. Outside of Rain, the Gliscor that switched into my expected Close Combat will take 72-85% from Overheat (combine that with the 17-20% from the CC, and you're in likely-KO range, even more so after rocks or prior damage).


    I'm really hoping I'll be able to get you guys moveset analyses next month. I'm about 50% done with the coding, but I'm also working on other things.
  8. EonX

    EonX The One and Only
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,748
    Infernape is actually one of, if not, the best Scarf user to put on a Sun team. Think of the offensive things that typically give Sun teams troubles. Dragonite, Salamence, Terrakion, and Heatran are the big 4 imo. With a Scarf, Infernape wrecks Dnite and Mence, even when they're boosted, with HP Ice. You at least have a 50/50 chance to KO Terrakion so that Venusaur can possibly sweep unhindered. Hey, it's a better chance than what every other Fire type Scarfer will give you We know what Infernape can do to Heatran. CC makes Tran run for the hills. Sure, there's Darmanitan and Victini if you want more power, but Infernape brings what neither of those 2 can reliably bring. Utility in a Scarfer, neutrality to SR, and the ability to assuredly KO non-ES Dnite, Scarf Mence, and at least have a shot at taking out Terrakion. Honestly, if I have Venusaur or Volcarona on a Sun team, I definitely at least want to consider adding Scarf Infernape to get rid of the stuff that gives those 2 issues.

    IMO, Scarf Infernape is the best one right now as it doesn't rely on breaking holes in teams (hard to do with rain being so common) but rather patches up common weaknesses that Sun teams have. Don't forget that Infernape has that same base 108 Speed Terrakion has to revenge Modest Venusaur in the Sun, only Infernape has Fire STAB to destroy it for sure with no prior damage. As long as Ninetales is higher up in the usage stats, Infernape will be close behind due to the utility the Scarf set brings to a Sun team.
  9. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,371
    I agree that Scarf is the best set, but I surely didn't forget that Terrakion shared the same speed tier that's why I actively compared Infernape to Keldeo and Terrakion. Thing is, Infernape's scarf set can't be that close, it would have to be used on almost all sun teams to be that high! All the things that you listed that give troubles to sun teams are also handled by Terrakion (and Terrakion can hit Extremespeed Dnite). Infernape's only niche is his Fire-STAB, but TBH hitting opposing sun sweepers isn't the biggest threat for a sun team of your own. In general, Scarf Terrakion can hit a lot more targets because he has STAB Stone Edge to back up killing Tornadus-T, Dragons, and Volcarona (as opposed to choosing between the targets with HP Ice and Stone Edge like Infernape does).

    The only niche Infernape has is Scarfed U-turn, which isn't a lot. Subpar mixed attacker due to his STAB's being resisted by many Pokes (as explained in my post above) and has to compete with Terrakion on his Scarf, Banded, and SD sets which (IMO) Terrakion just does better. Just came to mind if you are using SR on Infernape he has to compete with Terrakion too now because of the tutors :o

    Basically not a lot is going on for Infernape these days. Just Scarf and the super-rare Nasty Plot Infernape. But even with that little going on for it, it still manages to remain close to the top 20 in OU o.O I mean look at all the Pokes under it. Many of which are more relevant to the OU metagame than Infernape is from my experience playing. The big ones being Keldeo, Celebi, Landorus-T, Jellicent, and Haxorus! IMO I think it is time for Infernape to go from OU. I could give the same rant about Vaporeon but that's for another day :P

    Then again, this is coming from a guy who thinks Metagross is solidly OU and thinks people bash it too much... (which is also a rant for another day)
  10. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    535
    I don't think you're giving Infernape enough credit. While he faces some tough competition from Terrakion as a Scarfed Fighting type, he has some key differences to set himself apart. Some of them you mentioned, like U-Turn and the ability to smack Sun teams hard, but you missed the biggest one: the ability to go mixed. This ensures he can revenge kill some things that Scarf Terrakion can't, such as Bulk Up Breloom and Gliscor. It also makes him much harder to switch into since few things that can take CC want to eat a Fire Blast/Overheat to the face.

    Access to priority another advantage. This opens up the possibility of running a LO Wallbreaking set or Specs/Band set while still maintaining the ability to pick off weakened threats, albeit less effectively. It also makes it much harder to revenge kill his boosting sets late-game, since he's faster than every non-ES priority user in OU and Scarf users/ faster pokemon should be worn down enough to be picked off by Mach Punch or Vacuum Wave. Terrakion can run RP to fix the latter issue, but has no way of getting past priority users such as Scizor.

    You also said that access U-Turn isn't that big of a deal and I couldn't disagree more. If you ask me it's the best move in the game right now, especially on a mixed attacker like Infernape; it lets him check to see what your opponent plans on using to sponge his attacks while maintaining momentum, and potentially smack that check on the defense that will hurt the most next time it switches in. It's a huge boon on all of his sets except for boosting ones.

    Obviously 'Nape has some issues, such as the prevalence of Politoed, terrible bulk, and good-not-great attacking stats. However, his #24 ranking and OU status are well deserved (unlike Metagross, who just needs to come down to UU already).
  11. mroy559

    mroy559

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Thanks yet again for the actual stats Antar. How are more people definitely not using Terrakion a lot more considering the scarf variant can certainly revenge each non-Agility Thundurus-T as well as Tornadus-T. Looking grim with regard to Tornadus-I nevertheless.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)